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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Oct 22, 2012 - 06:42am PT
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That's a great quote Clint. I knew I'd read something like that somewhere, but hadn't realised that it was Rowell.
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throwpie
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Oct 22, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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If Hetch Hetchy lake was caused by an ancient rockslide, we would all have "Keep Hetch Hetchy Blue" bumper stickers on our cars.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2012 - 06:28am PT
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bumpity bump, like I said I would.
There are some good posts on this thread about the viability of draining Hetch Hetchy and removing the dam, and indeed what if Hetch Hetchy Reservoir was actually a lake created thousands of years ago. But... that latter notion is a bit disingenuous, as it wasn't and was man created for San Francisco, BTW a town I love, have worked in, played football/soccer in and partied in.
I still say it should be 'freed' to its original state or as nearest as can be. Funding? Yep, a good point by some.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 25, 2012 - 08:52am PT
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It will never happen in my view, SF giving up a good fresh and reliable water source for some coastal foul tasting muddy lake water, most of which would surely have to come from the Delta...besides what DMT said up thread, which reminds me of what Mark Twaine said in his time, "whiskey's for drinking and water is for fighting over." So true in the dry Southwest.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 25, 2012 - 09:33am PT
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Silver, the entire state of CA is tied together in terms of water supply and distribution. SF may not think of themselves as the dry Southwest but they're joined at the hip to the region.
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can't say
Social climber
Pasadena CA
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Oct 25, 2012 - 10:26am PT
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"You're overpopulated and while yes the weather is nice and you have some great scenery it is apparent to me there are just too many people living in the state"
Brilliant observation! If so many of the folks who moved here stayed at home, then just maybe this place could have been kind of nice. But nooooo anytime the going gets tough in one messed up place or another, ya'll move out here. But my family moved here too, over 100 years ago for the same reason's. I see lic. plates from all the usual California hating places like TX or TN or GASP!!!111 NV. I'm all for self-deportation
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Oct 25, 2012 - 11:56am PT
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Except San franfreeko isn't in the south west and they can drink dirty pond water for all I care.
yep, that sentiment will have a convincing effect!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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As I predicted the hypocritical San Fran liberals have decided they don't
give a damn about Hetch Hetchy.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Good. I like Lakes and bigwalls and having water and less water wars.
Just wish they would open HH to overnight camping.
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Heyduke Lives!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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There is a lesson here.
Environmentalists, who have created a reputation for not being the most honest brokers in situations, cannot just snap their fingers, put out a lot of wrong and misleading information, and just have people jump to their tune.
People will vote against their own interests, but not without clean, convincing evidence and information.
For me, it was a slam dunk. No clear picture of where $10 billion dollars comes from to do this. If not, then why throw $8 million away now?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 16, 2012 - 08:01pm PT
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http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Hetch-Hetchy-fight-not-over-activists-say-4026599.php
Sorry, Patrick. No commercial potential.
The following's from a recent letter of mine to a person living in SF.
Do you know this piece by Will Ackerman? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkXdHnumyEY
It's about the nicest thing I've listened to in a long, long time. I was just sitting here reading and scanning onto my computer a book titled San Francisco Water & Power, put out by the utility, a history of the Hetch Hetchy system, start to present.
I guess you know the story. It's a sad one from the outdoor crowd's POV, but the die was cast long ago. There is a movement, noble but ultimately silly, to reduce the Dam. This means reducing most of the system, as well. It will not float. (Pardon the pun.)
The song reminded me of the loss of Hetch Hetchy as a natural reserve. I thought the song was a fitting way to express regret and loss and sweet recall.
I don't regret the decision by the voters. It is all water under the bridge, over the dam, and out the bay. It will return, but HH will not. I am trying to be the realist for a change. Too many jobs are at stake, too little in the way of an alternate water source, and in a climate of fiscal crapola it's enough we have one Major Boondoggle going on in the State, namely the High-Speed Rail money-maker-for-some-with-pull and destroyer-of-others-lives all in one. Again.
P R O G R E S S. Sure is expensive.
Perhaps the matter will be taken up again, like the activists say. Impossible dreams are not what Hayduke believed in, and neither should some of you. Because as climbing shows us, anything's possible.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nov 16, 2012 - 09:33pm PT
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I disagree.
Started out thinking it should be drained, restored. Then spent a little time out there and changed my mind. 50,000 people a year go to Hetch Hetchy. 4 million a year in Yosemite.
Hetchy is quiet and wild.
The Valley is...well, you know.
Galen was right.
It's a little bit like the Owens Valley, which was saved by having LA steal the water. If not, it would now be another San Fernando Valley. I like it better as sage brush. A National Park quality landscape preserved -- quite inadvertently -- by a big city's water grab.
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Nov 16, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
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And it WILL be drained, one day. Of that you can be sure.
When? Doesn't matter, really. That's up to Mom, now.
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Epic E
Big Wall climber
CA
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Nov 16, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
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F*#K HETCH HETCHY!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 16, 2012 - 10:52pm PT
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I like your input, Doug. A man who's lived with the scene for decades knows the history. His views count for a lot with a lot of people. Thanks.
So many are virtual blanks when Hetch Hetchy comes up. They need to see it to believe. But they'll only see the Ditch, like you said. What a bitch.
I have a complete scan of the SF Water & Power book, their overview of the history and uses of the project.
If it seems like a worthwhile thing, I will be glad to get the pages posted. The photos are sepia-toned and of high quality and the scans are, too. the total will amount to 58 pages. Give me some "hell-yeahs" and it'll be done.
How would a dam fit in below Lovers Leap? Sleep on that.
"Pity this busy monster, manunkind,
Not. Progress is a comfortable disease."--e. e. cummings
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Nov 17, 2012 - 12:23am PT
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Doug- I'm not sure about Hetch-Hetchy, but if Bishop would have been San Fernando if not for DWP, why isn't Benton huge? There's private land there, no DWP, but it's tiny.
I just don't buy that argument for Bishop. There are other towns out there just like Bishop. None are giant suburbs (of what?) like people imagine this place to be without LA.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Nov 17, 2012 - 03:16am PT
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Climbers are often conflicted conservationists. Best use, wise use, no use, or my use?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Nov 17, 2012 - 06:56am PT
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Todd, I am conflicted. No question. Judging from what I see here and other places, you are spot on. We have the need for places to climb, AWAY from people, if possible, and for now, HH is just that.
It would be lovely to see acres of new granite available, which has been cleaned recently from its bath of a hundred years, one might hope, to climb on. However, at the same time, here come the tourons and the Park Concessionaire. That will happen. I don't care to see THAT happen. So, here I am, conflicted.
For those who say "F*#k HH," no problem here. Sometimes I'd like to say the same thing, dude. But I love the place.
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ElGreco
Mountain climber
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Nov 19, 2012 - 03:57pm PT
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I see Galen's point, but that's the same as saying that we can't do better. Does it have to be tourons galore or defacing an iconic landscape with an artificial lake? I think that's a false choice, and we can and should do better. Who would vote to flood Yosemite Valley today??
HH is not a water source - the Tuolumne river is. HH is a storage facility, and a sweetheart deal for the city of SF, which profits both from the water and power under arrangements that slipped in under unique circumstances (panic and political wrangling after the fires caused by the 1906 quake in SF). For answers to how long it would take to restore HH valley, what it would look like etc, take a look here: http://www.hetchhetchy.org/theplan
In the meantime, how about building on the beta? I made a start on some roadside crags: http://www.mountainproject.com/v/hetch-hetchy/107751068
Pitch in!
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