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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 12, 2012 - 12:06pm PT
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John Fine just loaned me this book by Falcon Press. It's quite interesting and I've discovered a couple techniques that could have saved me some grief on Iron Hawk. I'd highly suggest it so that you're at least a little bit aware of the knots and rescue techniques should the need arise in your climbing.
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covelocos
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Aug 12, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
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Self rescue~ Refers to actions and techniques taken by either an individual or team to retreat or advance from situations which would leave those otherwise unprepared stranded.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Aug 12, 2012 - 01:29pm PT
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With something like this, it is never a good idea to learn from only one source.
Some references [links edited to point to publishers rather than Amazon. Note both books have free preview downloads]:
American:
Tyson and Loomis (Mountaineers Books)
http://www.mountaineersbooks.org/Climbing-Self-Rescue-P262.aspx
Fasulo (Falcon)
http://www.falcon.com/books/self-rescue-2nd
Review of the above two books:
http://alpineinstitute.blogspot.com/search?q=self+rescue
Chauvin Guides:
http://www.chauvinguides.com/selfrescue/selfstart.cfm
British:
Long (Steve, not Largo) DVD
http://www.safetysteve.co.uk/page31.html
The Brits do things a little differently. I like their approach to tying off the belay plate better, for example.
I think that many of the improvised techniques do not come with sufficient caveats about the need for everything to be ideal in order for the process to work (and when, in a real self-rescue situation, are things ever ideal). This is especially true for improvised hauling techniques, which are easily defeated by system friction and can be exhausting and very time-consuming even if they work.
I also think that insufficient attention has been paid to harness hang syndrome. Even without full clarity from the emergency medical profession about the severity and danger of the condition, it seems clear that a hanging unconscious or semi-conscious climber needs first and foremost to be gotten off the rope if at all possible. Many of the rescue procedures described in these texts could take a very long time, and should not be instituted first if it is possible to get the hanging climber's weight off the rope.
If there is a single rule that deserves attention in all these complicated processes, it is "never hang a load on an anchor with a knot that cannot be released." So in additions to the autoblock and prussik knots (note how the Brits simplify certain processes by using the autoblock, which can be popped loose under load), the most important knot is the munter mule.
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The Tramp
Trad climber
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Aug 12, 2012 - 01:35pm PT
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Neat little section on soloing(p.122) also tandem rappelling, and tying off
belay devices. Good book easy to comprehend.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2012 - 01:54pm PT
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I just built the "haul line hung up on a rivet" problem that I experienced on Iron Hawk on my garage wall.
I used 1/2" webbing (tie-off loops) for Klemhiests (which grabbed the 8 mil cord I was using as a rope perfectly well) to build a 3:1 and then built an additional 2:1 onto that to give myself 6:1. Using 1/2" tie-off loops and biners as pulleys.
I had the two pull cords attached to the system using a releasable under load knot, a Munter tied finished off with a Mule. I had a 1/2" webbing Klemhiest knot as a progress capture attached to the system with a Mariner knot so that once I gained the necessary slack, I could release the system and lower out the bags.
It's good to know that a Klemhiest tied with 1/2" webbing will grab 7 and 8 mil quite well. I was lifting 65 pounds easily with it.
It's not a great shot but the orange cord (8mil) represents my haul line, the green cord is 7 mil and creates the 2:1, the blue cord is 5 mil and acts as a multiplier onto the 7 mil. The whole gig is releasable via Munter Mules on the 5 and 7 mil. The Green sling is the progress capture and is releasable via a Mariner Knot.
I could have gained the couple inches of slack needed to pop the haul line off the rivet with the rig shown here and then removed the pulley system. I could have then figured some way to lower the rope out so it didn't shock load the anchor with the lead rope, and then released the load off the rivet by loosening the Mariner knot.
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Aug 12, 2012 - 07:01pm PT
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Thanks for the post and photos Mark.
I believe I have the same book right on my coffee table - Self Rescue by David J. Fasulo. Great book to have, easy to understand and use.
It's a daily reader for me right now, I just started volunteering with a SAR team so I have been reviewing the book a lot.
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adatesman
climber
philadelphia, pa
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Aug 12, 2012 - 07:21pm PT
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IMO, piece missed here is that practicing self rescue is *more* important for weekend warriors, who are more apt to get themselves into trouble. Speaking from experience btw, and quite happy I had practiced things before shattering an ankle on multipitch with an inexperienced partner. Could have gone badly, but instead was just unpleasant.
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Beautiful_Corn
Big Wall climber
Brooklyn Park, MD
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Aug 12, 2012 - 08:08pm PT
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My wife and I (weekend warriors) were forced to put some self rescue theory into practice today. Everything turned out fine and we managed to even walk away with all our gear but we're settling in tonight with some beers and some more practice because we could have done a better job and rescued ourselves much faster.
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
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Aug 12, 2012 - 08:43pm PT
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rgold: Thanks for all of the helpful references -- glad I'm not the only one with a penchant for finding greater comfort in multiple sources. I picked up one, but wasn't sure where to turn next, so...THANKS!
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wivanoff
Trad climber
CT
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Aug 12, 2012 - 09:11pm PT
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Fasulo has re-written "Self-Rescue"
http://www.amazon.com/Self-Rescue-2nd-How-Climb-Series/dp/0762755334/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344819350&sr=8-1&keywords=self+rescue
In the 2nd (current) edition, he says that Marc Chauvin (Chauvin Guides) told him that the "transition" shown on the Chauvin website is second generation and current thinking is more of a direct method of going to self-rescue rather than going to the baseline first. If so, I thought by now the Chauvin site would be updated.
Still, I think it's good to know (and practice) several different methods and decide what to do based on the situation you're in.
Regarding harness hang and using the terrain to your advantage, I did like this comment in Fasulo's book: "expert climbers use terrain; beginning climbers tie fancy knots and load systems".
I think he did a good job with the second edition except with respect to raising systems. In my mind, he presents them as easier to improvise and use in the field that they are in reality.
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Aug 12, 2012 - 09:37pm PT
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+1 for those books.....taught me a lot and allowed me to save my own ass a few times
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 13, 2012 - 12:25am PT
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Why bother reading a book?
Just dial 911
:-)
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Some Random Guy
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Aug 13, 2012 - 12:58pm PT
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^ true true...might as well take advantage of this aac rescue insurance i got. free heli ride!
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neversummer
Trad climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 02:23pm PT
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Just picked up the falcon press 2nd edition...so far so good.
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yeahman
Mountain climber
Montana
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Aug 13, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
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The review linked in rgold's post refers to the old 1996 edition of the Falcon book, not the 2nd edition that came out in 2011. The new edition includes a chapter that covers practice routines for specific rescue situations.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area , California
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Aug 13, 2012 - 02:41pm PT
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when big wall climbers with so much experience fail to do self-rescue, how could others do rescue by reading a book ?
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 03:46pm PT
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I know Dave very well, and he always does a thorough job on his subjects. His book and the update are excellent resources, and the diagrams are very helpful for those who need to follow pictures. He is a teacher by trade, and it shows in his presentation.
The state of the art is always evolving. It is always good to know how to perform what you need to do with a minimum of non-fancy gear. For weekend warriors, a self rescue workshop is nice, and then practice with your partner before the big trip of the year. The weaker partner should be able to execute these skills, too. The leader can be the person injured after a fall or in the hole on a glacier.
While you will find that many of the concepts of self-rescue will translate over to mountain rescue or fire rescue, you will find differences in what constitutes acceptable practices. I've been with an MRA team for 14 years, and some of the techniques and tools are slowly becoming more uniform. However, they have legitimate liability concerns about maintaining acceptable system safety factors and operating procedures, especially if the team members don't all have a strong climbing/rope background. The munter mule combination is not used by many MRA teams (at least in my region)- they use radium release hitches (an upgrade from the mariners a few years ago) tied off with half hitches and overhands. The concept is the same - a releasable tie-off that you can lower and transfer tension. Expect a jaundiced look at your gear as way too flimsy and much beefier and expensive equipment. The most common anchors will be different, and expect quite a meltdown if you girth hitch instead of basket hitch a point. For serious high angle scenarios, they will prefer two rope systems, and this has implications for the preferences in building SRENE anchors. MRA teams love their prussiks, and many are very slowly beginning to adopt belaying practices which incorporate "plaquettes" or dual tensioned lines.
I yearn for a little more consistency and enlightenment between MRA and AMGA (yet another hierarchy of preferred skills). Learning all you can about any system - especially understanding how it is engineered and why it is engineered in a particular way - will help you. If my team needs something done quickly and differently, it is the climbers that possess these rope techniques skills that can solve the problem while mitigating the risk.
Harness hang/suspension trauma - be careful when you review discussions of those. Much of the controversy revolves around how to treat them after getting to a platform. Today, it appears that the "treat like any other trauma" approach is superior to those that wanted to modify the protocol for the suspension element. But moving patients quickly can not take precedence over the system safety. With sufficient resources, you can quickly get them off rope, especially with an organized effort that recognizes the medical care required. Like all other situations, a simple procedure is not best for all situations. Head traumas should not be put into a horizontal position if at all possible, etc....
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dfclimb
climber
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Aug 13, 2012 - 05:05pm PT
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Speaking of self-rescue. I watched a rescue off El Cap last week of two guys trying to rappel the Nose. Apparently, the first person rappeling was off route and stranded himself just above the great roof. Apparently, he did not know how to ascend a fixed rope?!?! Therefore, he became stranded and YOSAR raised his partner to the top of El Cap and lowered the lower climber all the way to the base (due to concerns with hanging in his harness for so long). Ascending a fixed rope seems like a basic self-rescue skill if attempting to rappel El Cap...
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Aug 13, 2012 - 05:10pm PT
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Seamstress, thanks very much for your post. I'm only training to Tech II at this time, but I have been keeping an eye on the vertical rescue team that is forming, and helping them out a bit here and there.
I'd like to see some cohesion between the different styles as well..it's difficult to break the AMGA habit and learn another.
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generationfourth
Trad climber
Arizona
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Aug 13, 2012 - 05:42pm PT
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I have the Self Rescue book with the red cover (Tyson/Loomis). I find it very informative and this thread reminds me that I need to go through and practice the methods in it again. There are is a lot of sound advice that made me say "ooooh that's what I should've done!" There is good methods for "sh#t-has-hit-the-fan" situations, and an equal amount of material dedicated to minor troubles like: second can't make it up the pitch, rope stuck, etc.
I've been trying to get my partners to get involved in learning and practicing because like others have said– the knowledge is useless if you're the one injured and your partner is not up to speed. Sadly some of my partners are too proud and/or have ego issues when it comes to self-rescue...
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LilaBiene
Trad climber
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Aug 13, 2012 - 05:46pm PT
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About 6 months ago I first read in RR's "Basic Rockcraft" that you should practice falling. Let's just say that it took several weeks before my brain decided it was willing to ponder this. But ponder it I did.
I like to laugh at myself, so this is something that provides grand opportunity. I've gone off course, snowballed, skidded, flipped and practically snapped every singe one of my limbs right off while downhill skiing, so why should climbing up (or down) be any different, from an experience perspective, that is?
It's in the things that go wrong and then are righted again that we develop skill and mastery. So, naturally, I became obsessed with knots. ;D Luckily, that lasted all of about 5, maybe 10 pages, before I decided I needed to figure out WHY all of these variations were necessary.
I have to say that it's really in all of the different stories and conversations being shared here that I've been able to learn the most, including, of course, recommended reading (and all of the different opinions that come with a person taking a stand on this or that!). So...again, my thanks.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 13, 2012 - 09:23pm PT
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Holy frig! ^^ THAT ^^ is an amazing story! What a pair of idiots. Talk about being in deep way way way over your head. Were this not Yosemite Valley where rescuers are available for free with a free 911 call, they would likely be dead.
You rappel with three ropes, lose one right off the bat and end up cutting it, then carry on with only two. And you rappel down a rope with NO ascenders?! And you don't even have the know-how or ability to prusik a fixed rope?
If feel angry about this. It makes the rest of us look bad, and endangers access for the rest of us who have actually made the effort to learn the very basics of how to descend and ascend a fixed rope. Which is no small effort, but rather a lifetime of learning.
You do this sort of thing without learning it properly [they weren't even CLOSE] and you will end up with a very short lifetime.
One wonders, of course, if it was these guys:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1886785&tn=0&mr=0
He writes,
"I will be in Yosemite for a day or two in the next few weeks."
If so, dude, you owe us all a HUGE explanation and perhaps even an apology.
What were you thinking?!
Wankers.
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Plaidman
Trad climber
South Slope of Mt. Tabor, Portland, Oregon, USA
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Aug 13, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
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Why bother reading a book?
Just dial 911
:-)
Thanks Werner! I'll try that. NOT!!!
The last thing I want is for someone to put their ass on the line to rescue my ass.
I sure do appreciate all that the gals and guys in SAR do. Rock on SAR folks!
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