le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Aug 21, 2012 - 11:57am PT
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My 2 cents for ya' Chris: I'm with Big Mike, Baba, and Yo.
Here comes the crotchety and lame part of my opinion, feel free to skip it:
I disagree about your brass balls though - your writeup kind of pins everything on your partner while glazing over your own mistakes. That's a big fat red line that you don't cross in my book: In climbing, you're a partnership, not two individuals. You don't hang your partner out to dry - if you trust him enough to put your life on the line with him, you two are in it together, and you have to own the outcomes together.
Edited to shorten and rethink.
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Farouk
Boulder climber
Sylvan Grove
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Aug 21, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
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There is no place in this whole thread I ever said "Go for it".
This was projected originally by the stupid troll Farouk along with cragman also trying to project that idea somehow in an indirect way.
Not me Werner Dude, but this guy started it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 21, 2012 - 01:00pm PT
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Just got back from work and had a bit more time to think about what I would have done in this situation. Bear in mind I have a lot of experience in rescues and have had to deal with a few "frozen partners"
Buddy hung out free hanging on both strands at great roof.
I would not have called for a rescue period. The guy aint gonna die of dehydration anytime soon.. yep he's gonna suffer and I have water. Plus if he was gonna die soon I can get to him and help way before SAR can.
First I would have tied off the rappel with two french prussics. one on each side. (both are releasable under pressure if needed.)
Then I would have told him to put a kleimheist around both strands on his end and get it synched tight and load bearing.
Then I would have hauled one end of the line up with a makeshift haul. Can be done with just biners and slings.
After just enough slack was produced to rapel on other strand i would have switched the french prusik on my side to a kleimheist and hooked in below it and rapped down to my buddy. Taken his backpack and tied it into the bottom of my rap line. I then would have laughed and chilled and eaten and drank water and talked about the view and whatever till I could get him escaped from rap system and set up to ascend with the ascenders and I would have use kleimheists to go up staying next to him .
Keys here is to make it real clear no rescue till he puts that kleimheist tight around both strands. 3 reasons.
1. It's easy to do and hard to screw up. Switching from Rapell to ascend while free-hanging isn't that tough but it IS harder and easier to screw up
( he should have already had it on anyway going into unknown territory... double actually he should have been rapping single stranded merely tending the other line while on a gri-gri and none of this would be necessary at all) Remember this technique next time you rap into ANY UNKNOWN territory! or for that matter known but complicated territory.
2. It ensures he ain't going off the ends no matter what.
3. it allows me to haull his ass the couple feet or so I need for slack to descend the other side.
I woulda been an ass if necessary and left him hangin for an hour or two till he did it.
No freaking rescue unless your dying man and you ain't dying! You are hanging off the end of a rope perfectly safe.
From there I would have led every rappel single stranded on one side (alowing me to re ascend easily if I make an error) with buddy set up for repel double stranded (in the system) before I left. I would have fireman belayed him to every anchor and not let him do anything for himself.
Full on guide mode.
I had to do something similar but way more complicated when bailing from the triple cracks on the Sheild once.
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toadgas
Trad climber
los angeles
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Aug 21, 2012 - 01:19pm PT
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First I would have tied of the rapell with two french prusiks. one on each side. (both are realeasable under pressure if needed.)
Then I would have told him to put a kleimheist around both strands on his end and get it synched tight and load bearing.
Then I would have hauled one end of the line up with a makeshift haul system even a 2-1 system mebbe but would have tried 1-1 first. Can be done with just biners and slings.
After just enough slack was produced to rapel on other strand i would have switched the french prusik on my side to a kleimheist and hooked in below it and rapped down to my buddy. Taken his backpack and tied it into the bottom of my rap line.
i then would have laughed and chilled and eaten and drank water and talked about the view and whatever till i could get him set up to ascend with the ascenders and I would have use kleimheists to go up staying next to him .
Keys here is to make it real clear no rescue till he puts that kleimheist tight around both strands. 3 reasons. It's easy to do ( he should have already had it on anyway going into unknown territory), it ensures he ain't going off the ends no matter what and it allows me to haul his ass the couple feet I need for slack.
I woulda been an ass if necessary and left him hangin for an hour or two till he did it.
No freaking rescue unless your dying man and you ain't dying! You are hanging off the end of a rope perfectly safe.
From there I would have led every rappel single stranded on one side (alowing me to re ascend if I make an error) with buddy set up for repel double stranded (in the system) before I left. I would have fireman belayed him to every anchor and not let him do anything for himself.
Full on guide mode.
I had to do something similar when bailing from the triple cracks on the Sheild once.
^^^^^^^^^^
great stuff! Yeah, some SAR chick should have stood in the meadow and shouted those directives thru a giant bullhorn
step....by.........step
piece a cake!
;)
.
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BurntToast
climber
CA
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Aug 21, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
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Shame on you for pinning the blame on your partner.
You were the "experienced" member of the party. The "adult" so to speak.
You allowed your less "experienced" partner to rappel without a helmet, pull the rope with a knot still tied, rappel first, take a "50/50 chance" with the correct route and rappel into the void without ascenders, all apparently with a thunderstorm approaching.
YOU risked the safety of your "friend" and the SARS members, not to mention anyone below you on the CLIMBING (not rappel) route.
Your "walk of shame" was well deserved and still continues.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
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Aug 21, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
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upon review, in an unbiased manner, the following quote which was given right off the bat was accurate in advice, and a bit of a prophecy.
Jul 24, 2012 - 06:29pm PT by Cragman
Don't do it.
You come to ST and the very first thing you post is about rappelling arguably the best free climb in the world?
Go back to the gym, and practice your rappelling there....YOSAR has enough to do.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 21, 2012 - 01:28pm PT
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The second time I climbed Royal Arches BITD was with a partner with little experience. The climb went fine, but it took longer and was hotter than we expected. So he ran out of water, but I didn't know until the climb was done and we had to get down the north dome gully.
Dehydration definitely changes a person. About halfway thru the descent he started to give up, he wanted to just bivy there. We had a conversation with me saying we weren't prepared to bivy (no water, no warm clothes or space blanket, etc.) we'd be miserable for 8 hours instead of 1 but he started kind of babbling, just saying the same thing over and over with a glazed look in his eyes. I lost it and slapped him across the face like you'd see in a movie. And it WORKED! He came to and agreed with me and THANKED ME for slapping him LOL.
To bad you couldn't slap your partner!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 21, 2012 - 01:44pm PT
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The second time I climbed Royal Arches BITD was with a partner with little experience. The climb went fine, but it took longer and was hotter than we expected. So he ran out of water, but I didn't know until the climb was done and we had to get down the north dome gully.
Dehydration definitely changes a person.
Ironic cause the spring at the top on the climb is safe to drink and year round, that's the way it goes i guess, what you don't know can't help you
Peace
Karl
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Aug 21, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
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Actually we both drank from the spring. I was wondering why he was gulping it down like a man possessed. I still had water at the top so I just drank and left my existing water for the hike down, which I eventually gave to him. He didn't tell me until later he had run out of water on the route. If I had known I would have stayed at the spring for 15 minutes or so getting him hydrated and making sure he filled his water bottle. I think he was embarrassed that he didn't ration his water.
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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Aug 21, 2012 - 02:12pm PT
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CUT THE ROPE!!!
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Cosmiccragsman
Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
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Aug 21, 2012 - 02:17pm PT
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^^^^^
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Pcutler
climber
Iowa
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Aug 21, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
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i once lowered myself down a weighted haul line by reverse leap frogging my ascenders. Not very sexy but it got me down - doing something like that could have allowed you to get to your partner and calm him down, take his pack and give him ascenders.
obviously its easy for everyone to come up with 'you should have done this' scenarios when sitting behind a desk. Being up a wall 2500 feet and hanging out in free space is enough to freak out almost anybody. When picking a partner for a wall I always figure that I won't climb with anybody who doesn't have the skills to haul my ass off if I were, for example,to break my leg in a lead fall or something. The other side of that coin is that you should probably have the skills to haul your partner off if he were, for example, to loose his marbles hanging out in open space under the great roof.
Sh#t happens, in hind-sight it was probably a dumb move, but when you're dumb you gotta be tough!
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 21, 2012 - 02:46pm PT
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Holy shit! What a big day out for the lads!
Really? Hauling the guy up to get slack in the cord? Hmmmmm.....
Here is my quick take on it in the new NSFW audio rant format™™ instead of doing all that damn typing:
Think the method will work?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 21, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
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Well there was a solution in this instructional video but might be a little too much like leaving your dog on the peak
then you just chongo hitchhike to the top
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxtg7raPDYo
peace
Karl
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Cosmiccragsman
Trad climber
AKA Dwain, from Apple Valley, Ca. and Vegas!
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Aug 21, 2012 - 02:54pm PT
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LOLOL, Russ!
It works.
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tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
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Aug 21, 2012 - 03:07pm PT
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more audio rants!!!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 21, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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Just hearing Russ's voice makes me smile and laugh
Not that his solution would have worked because there wasn't good communication with mr panic below the roof
Possible to down jumar btw on a tight rope but we already know they didn't have advanced skills
peace
Karl
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Jim Brennan
Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
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Aug 21, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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"Audio Rant Format"...
BLA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ! ! !
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Aug 21, 2012 - 03:10pm PT
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Lol nicely said Russ on the audio! It's still looping and I'm still laughing! I think I got told..
Thus why I rarely post advice about walls. My way would work but there's some damn fine wall-masters on this site. I was just an average joe up there.
I do like the down jumar idea even better than mine or Russ'es.. doesn't require anything from frozen partner whatsoever till you get to him and can make sure nothing else gets messed up. It's more work but safer than expecting this guy to do anything until supervised.
Clearly as usual on a wall there are many ways to skin cat.
And apparently they did have communication the guy just would not listen and was freakin out.
Hmm Audio rants .. the wave of the future? love it.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 21, 2012 - 03:12pm PT
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I thought the dudes had radios?
In true internet fashion I only skimmed the posts... anyway... a good rant is always good even if it is wrong-ish!
cheers!
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