The Gun debate sandbox

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 81 - 100 of total 5785 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:33pm PT
a) Of course you'd have to be there, and nobody carries unloaded..whats the point?

b)yes, you would have to be in range and I'm sure anyone would be able to tell where the shooter was from the muzzle flash

c) can't guarantee that no one else would be injured, but if you were able to stop the shooter from continuing to execute people, the reward far out weighs the risk.

d)not even in the equation once you decide to shoot back

e)? who is going to mistake who? the cops are 10 minutes away...

While it is rare, it happens way more than you think.

So what if the odds are not good...The bad guy is already killing people right and left, how could it get any worse?
You wouldn't need ideal circumstances to have made a difference...even if you only saved one life, it's worth trying.


John M

climber
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
You have a super bright scientist in training who decided to use guns to kill people in a theater. Seems to me the key issue is mental health--not guns. You think this guy was not smart enough to figure out another way? Look at his apartment. The scary thing to me is that this person was very capable of bioterrorism. It's a waste of time talking about guns.

Not true that it is a waste of time. The guy may have been smart enough but was he organized enough mentally to make it happen. Mental health has all kinds of variations..

An example.. For those who are extremely depressed and suicidal, the most dangerous time for a suicide isn't usually at the worst part of the depression because by then they don't even have the energy to get out of bed. The most dangerous time is often as they are coming out the depression. Then they have enough energy to go through with it. So a person get suicidal, they start thinking about how to kill themselves, then they might buy a guy, then if the depression worsens they might not even have the wherewithal to pull the trigger until they are starting to come out of the depression. It takes more energy they you might realize to actually go through with killing yourself and it take mental organization to build a biological weapon and then use it.

I only post that to point out that mental illness has stages and it has different dangers at different stages. A person like this could be smart enough to build a biological weapon, but not motivated to do it. Then as the mental illness progresses he might get the motivation to do something violent but then he might not have the mental organization to build that biological weapon. So then he looks for something simpler. Such as a gun.

If the gun were harder to get he might still go through with plan, but he might have less weapons or he might progress through his mental illness until he doesn't even have the energy to do anything but kill himself.

So guns and the ease with which a person can get them do play a role. Although it is not the only thing which plays a part in this. It was mentioned in the other thread that our mental health system was taken apart so help is more difficult to obtain.

Then there are the organized psychotics.. which is a whole other variation but which I believe is more rare. those are the crazies that kill lots of people over a bunch of years. One at a time. Their mind is organized enough to keep them from getting caught immediately.

So the type of mental illness plays a role. How far along the mental illness is plays a role. And how prone the person is to violence plays a role.
beef supreme

climber
the west
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
Something that crossed my mind, not really making a point of anything, but it's in regard to the 'mental stability' of the perp. Remember in the first batman (ok, not the first, but like the first one of late- the one with heath ledger as joker or whatever) so, anyway, I remember a part in the movie where Michael Cain/Cane (spelling? whatever).. So anyway, he says something like "some people just want to see the world burn" in the movie.
Makes me wonder if people who act out these atrocities really are mentally ill. Look at the guy in Norway who did worse- there's no way that guy is 'insane', he's perfectly sane!. I wonder if it's the same with this guy.
toadgas

Trad climber
los angeles
Jul 21, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
.


Most diagnoses of mental illness are protected by confidentiality laws in the US.

If these diagnoses went into a federal database then many deranged types could be prevented from legally amassing firearms. Cho at VT was diagnosed but it remained confidential, I believe.

Measures can be taken...usually involving enforcing already existing laws...diligently


.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:21pm PT
"some people just want to see the world burn"
Bingo!
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:22pm PT
Three things you can't have real discussion about:
gun control
abortion
religion
Given that, this will be my last comment on the subject.
If you ever experience a REAL firefight (not talking paintball here) your opinion concerning assault weapons in the hands of the general public might undrego a metamorphosis.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
NRA is mostly responsible for the body count. Most radical and dangerous organization in the U.S.
Jorroh

climber
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
The problem is clearly that there weren't enough people in the theatre packing guns. We should probably have a law mandating that everyone carry AK 47's or equivalent at all times.
Purely for the sake of safety of course....because more guns = safer right?

zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
Is someone going to put up the actual statistics documenting how many instances of lethal attacks have been prevented by gun-carrying citizens who are not cops?

Zimmerman killing Martin and the like will not be counted in the tally.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:43pm PT
"assault weapons" is simply an over used phrase intended to demonize any gun that looks dangerous.

What is it that makes people think they are any more capable of killing people than other types of guns?

Do you think they shoot faster?
How fast do you need to shoot when no one is shooting back?
Hold more ammo?
How many bullets does it take to kill 12 people?

The gun type makes no difference if someone is intent on killing people.

Even if you banned all auto loading guns...
Here is what a 12 year old kid can do with a lever action rifle, 2 single action revolvers and a breach loading double barreled shotgun in under 11 seconds...all delivered on target.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
USA Moundhouse Nev. and land o da SLEDS!
Jul 21, 2012 - 03:54pm PT
Thankfully that kid was obviously raised around guns and knows well the responsiblity that goes with them. Hes been trained properly and has excelled at it. One of the problems with society in general is that sort of early on introduction to the REALITY of weapons is getting scarce, and kids have the internet and violent games to break them into a mindset about guns. I was raised with them and always knew the responsibilities.


edit: that KID is impressive! i wouldnt piss him off IIWY...
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jul 21, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#256134
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:06pm PT
with the number of guns carried legally,

how many have been used in self-defense in a gun fight?

I haven't heard of any, which certainly seems to be evidence that they are not used in that manner.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:17pm PT
They are only used in the imaginations of NRA members
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:19pm PT
Hopefully NEVER needed......but available.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
They happen all the time Ed, but rarely reported on the news.
This one happened a few days ago...
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
Using your gun as tactically as imagined by gun owners is probably as practical as learning to defuse a bomb. But, hey, it's still legal. I say shoot that sh#t. And if you have that Bronson moment you creamed yourself imagining? One shot, one kill!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:23pm PT
They happen all the time Ed, but rarely reported on the news.

and not reported to the police? I doubt that... where are you stats?

Dr. F.

Ice climber
SoCal
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:27pm PT

"A well regulated militia"

Or in other words
Keep guns out of the hands of the crazies
Some Gun Control is mandatory, all guns should be registered to responsible users
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 21, 2012 - 05:28pm PT
Stats? I don't have stats i just hear about them all the time,
and I just posted a very recent example.

Where is your evidence to the contrary? Oh wait...
I haven't heard of any, which certainly seems to be evidence that they are not used in that manner.

You call THAT evidence? I thought you were a scientist.

Look here for many examples...
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gun+stops+robbery&oq=gun+stops+robbery&gs_l=youtube.3...3400.11969.0.12447.21.19.2.0.0.0.159.1952.11j8.19.0...0.0...1ac.nuHF1l-Lae
Messages 81 - 100 of total 5785 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews