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Messages 5521 - 5540 of total 5657 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 04:36pm PT
The NRA and their stooges don't have a clue what "keep and bear Arms" was supposed to mean.

Spot on!
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jul 14, 2014 - 04:38pm PT
Well how am I supposed to argue with that?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 14, 2014 - 04:39pm PT
You want to talk about an epidemic of needless and utterly STUPID violence? Then talk about teenage drunk driving, which overshadows school shootings by an order of magnitude.

No.

See the title of the thread.

DMT
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Jul 14, 2014 - 04:48pm PT
The SECOND you "prohibit" something, ALL you accomplish is to drive it underground and start pouring VAST resources into fighting a "war" that YOU started and can NEVER, EVER win.

Banning something doesn't work? How many crimes are committed with full-auto firearms each year?

Either way, I have never suggested prohibiting ownership of any guns, only actions; negligent ownership of guns, negligent sales of guns, negligent dealers, and mentally unstable untrained civilians roaming our streets with guns. With appropriate registration (the only way to ensure responsibility), anything would be legal on my island.

Your alcohol/drug analogy? I'd have anyone convicted of any form of DUI lose their driving license for life, tough sh#t. Second offense, prison. That doesn't mean I want to see a return to prohibition.

TE
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Jul 14, 2014 - 04:52pm PT
Not one single proposed gun-control law would have had anything to do with the various school shootings.

If you think of it as anybody can obtain any weapon they want illegally then I can see why you think that. But in the real world these school shooters typically use what they can get from friends or relatives.

Not that I'm saying I agree with it, but an assault weapons ban would have prevented Lanza from having an assault weapon with 30 round clips and he would have had the bolt action rifle he killed his mother with instead.

Instead of killing 26 people at the school it would have been less. How many less murdered 5-7 year old kids? 5, 10, 15?

Again I'm not saying I agree with an assault weapons ban, but it clearly would have had something to do with that shooting. If you can't see that it really indicates how people who don't want gun regulations, even the most reasonable ones, don't see this objectively.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 14, 2014 - 04:55pm PT
If Smith and Wesson didn't manufacture them, you couldn't buy them.

If the industrial/civilian weapons complex actually wanted to do something to tighten up the availability of firearms, they could. No laws required.

But they're not. Because of what Kos said. Profits ahead of children, every damn time.

Every

damn

time

Each school shooting?

Profits ahead of children.

Every damn time.

DMT

DMT
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 14, 2014 - 05:21pm PT
I have an extra X Products 50 rd .308 drum for an M1A1 for sale.

PM me.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 05:49pm PT
If the industrial/civilian weapons complex actually wanted to do something to tighten up the availability of firearms, they could. No laws required.

But they're not. Because of what Kos said. Profits ahead of children, every damn time.

I TOTALLY agree. No argument here!

Just remember that the alcohol industry does the EXACT same thing, and with far more terrible implications. Those clever beer commercials? Just the alcohol industry making drunk driving "sexy," and their "please drink responsibly" line is a flagrant joke.

Throughout America, on countless fronts, it is "profits ahead of children, every damn time." Why single guns out for special condemnation because a TINY proportion of America goes on on a whacky and terrible tangent?

Again, it is NOT a "national crisis." Either by raw numbers, total frequency, rate of commission, or ANY other metric... it is just not a "national crisis" that needs the feds involved in it.

And not ONE of you has started a thread against the alcohol industry, much less with the order of magnitude MORE FERVOR than you demonstrate here.

Yes, THIS thread's subject is not alcohol abuse and the horrific effects it has on the youth of this country. So, fine: START such a thread and demonstrate the fervor there that you do here. THEN I might start finding your hand-wringing here a bit more believable.

Ohhh... ooopseeewahh.... Are any of you drinkers?

Sorry! Don't want to step on any of YOUR toes, because, of COURSE, you are all "responsible drinkers."
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:14pm PT
I TOTALLY agree. No argument here!

Just remember that the alcohol industry does the EXACT same thing, and with far more terrible implications.

There you go again, trying to change the topic. Non-starter.

See the topic header and stay on track.

DMT
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:39pm PT
Why are we given all these "statistics" that try to show everything is more dangerous then guns, but yet they feel a need to carry a gun incase of an armed confrontation?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:41pm PT
There you go again, trying to change the topic. Non-starter.

It's honestly sad to watch how you can't follow an obvious inference. If you think this is "changing the topic," then, seriously, I am sad for you.

As one final attempt to help you see this through, the argument is quite straightforward:

1) Gun control laws are STRONGLY advocated by some people because they say the school-shooting carnage is unacceptable.

2) Such gun control advocates appeal to emotion in claiming that school-shooting carnage is a "national crisis" that DEMANDS sweeping and federal gun control legislation.

3) Such gun control advocates do not seem to give a rip, nor start threads, nor express ANY horrified emotions regarding the MANY other "carnages" not involving guns that actually take the lives of orders of magnitude more children than do the school-shooting "carnages."

4) Such gun control advocates apparently do not have any internal consistency regarding their fervent appeals to emotion, or regarding the legislative changes they employ appeal to emotion to get enacted.

5) To be convincing, such gun control advocates SHOULD demonstrate at least bare consistency in their appeals to emotion.



6) Thus, such gun control advocates' appeals to emotion are not to be taken seriously, nor should they motivate legislative changes.

Follow?
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:49pm PT
Why are we are given all these "statistics" that try to show everything is more dangerous then guns, but yet they feel a need to carry a gun incase of an armed confrontation?

I, for one, try to cover my various bases as best I can. I even carry homeowner's insurance WITH a flood rider, even though I'm not in a flood plane. Wowza!

Of course, nobody is advocating enacting sweeping, FEDERAL legislation to "further control" (as if that were possible) things like cigarettes, alcohol (and drunk driving), high-fat-intake diets, and so forth.

Start trying to get more FEDERAL legislation on these fronts also, and I'll also strongly advocate against that.

This thread focuses on guns, and gun deaths in this country are NOT some "national crisis" that needs yet more federal involvement.

If you think gun-deaths are a "national crisis," then my point is that you've got FAR bigger fish to fry on other fronts, yet nobody is proposing FEDERAL legislation to "solve" those "national crises."

The biggest problem you guys have got is that you simply cannot produce anything approaching a compelling case to the effect that there IS a "national crisis" that needs FEDERAL intervention. Or, to be consistent, you need to be proposing a whole SLEW of FEDERAL legislation to "stop the carnage" on a host of other fronts as well.

Again, show me a fervent thread on ANY of those subjects, and I'll believe in your sincerity a lot more.

As it stands, the FACT is that you guys just don't like guns. Among the MANY "carnages" you could try to get motivated to stop, you fixate on guns.

And, ironically, this is something explicitly mentioned in the constitution. So, have fun with that. I find you all to be insincere and amazingly disingenuous!
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:50pm PT
It's honestly sad to watch how you can't follow an obvious inference.If you think this is "changing the topic," then, seriously, I am sad for you.

Your inference doesn't equate with people that go out with the purpose of murdering as many people they can on a mass shooting.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 14, 2014 - 07:56pm PT
The biggest problem you guys have got is that you simply cannot produce anything approaching a compelling case to the effect that there IS a "national crisis" that needs FEDERAL intervention.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States







If this doesn't indicate a society with a serious problem, what does?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:01pm PT
The drunken need to defend the nation notwithstanding comma the right to distill and drink alcohol shall not be infringed...

Lol!

No, no 2nd amendment protection of booze. In fact the production of alcohol is heavily regulated from the Fed, states and local authorities as well. Not that it matters.

See the topic line? This thread is about guns, not about BUT MA! THEY DID IT TOO!

If you can't stay on topic perhaps start your own alcohol thread.

DMT
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:05pm PT
As it stands, the FACT is that you guys just don't like guns. Among the MANY "carnages" you could try to get motivated to stop, you fixate on

A problem you have is to generalize your facts. I like my guns

I am an owner of many guns and was raised with loaded guns in the house at all times.
I see no reason for asking for legislation limiting the size of a magazine to 7 rounds or the stopping of selling fully auto guns.

Edit,
Your fixation is to find an end run around any legislation therfore declaring any legislation attempts useless.

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:26pm PT
What I like about the children's tactical vest is the 100% money back guarantee. If your kid gets plugged, they'll happily refund your money.
madbolter1

Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:32pm PT
Your inference doesn't equate with people that go out with the purpose of murdering as many people they can on a mass shooting.

No, instead we have FAR more people killing FAR more kids in simply pathetic, negligent, idiotic fashion with what is ALSO a deadly weapon. But that's okay.

Use a gun; go to prison.

Use a car; get your wrist slapped.

The point you fail to get hold of is that the laws (on any front) don't work.

You guys just get your panties in a bunch over one particular subset of killings and associated laws.

Inconsistent.
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:47pm PT
Are you proposing that we should legislate accidents?
If you stay on topic we can discuss premeditated killings though.

Edit,
Use a car; get your wrist slapped

For crying out loud, where do live?
There are many laws that will land you plenty of years in prison for the negligent use of a motor vehicle.

johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 14, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
The point you fail to get hold of is that the laws (on any front) don't work.

Yes, we shouldn't have any laws, there are always some that won't obey them, so why bother.


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