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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sep 18, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
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Ron gets his "news" from conservative blogs, townhall.com, hotair.com, etc.
They all report that an AR-15 was used... by the police to stop the shooter... you know, offering well-reasoned angles that help inform the "debate."
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Binks
climber
Uranus
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Sep 18, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
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Screw gun owner's rights. We are getting shot up every few months because of the stupidly easy access.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Sep 18, 2013 - 11:07pm PT
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How come reasonable people who own firearms and support background checks dont get any press?
Because then you would all have to STFU.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Sep 18, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
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indeed.
as if the rest isnt.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Sep 19, 2013 - 01:02am PT
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5678 ... Holy Crap!
Keepin' the sheeple busy fighting each other and ignoring the real issues. And it's working great!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 19, 2013 - 01:16am PT
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"...they're too cowed by the NRA to speak put"
Please explain the mechanics of this.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Sep 19, 2013 - 01:17am PT
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6-Year-Old Shoots 4-Year-Old Sister, Father Tells Him To Lie
AUTHOR: SHANNON ARGUETA SEPTEMBER 18, 2013 9:16 AM
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/09/18/6-year-old-shoots-4-year-old-sister-father-tells-him-to-lie/
The loony, gun obsessed, right-wing idiots of our beautifully screwed up country love to say that the gun problem we have is not their fault. The problem we have is that criminals buy stolen firearms and they are the ones who are causing all of the problems. Real gun-loving Americans are super-duper responsible and do everything right! They are properly trained, they practice gun safety, they are responsible and protecting their rights as ‘Muricans dammit! Yeppers….the problem lies solely at the feet of criminals. Except it doesn’t and Fred B. Maphis’ arrest in Wisconsin for telling his six-year-old son to lie about how he shot his little sister is more proof that their ‘scary criminal’ theory is total bullsh#t.
48-year-old Maphis was watching television in his Alma, Wisconsin home on August 30th when he heard a gunshot followed by screams. He ran into the other room to find his 6-year-old son trying to clean up blood and his 4-year-old daughter with a gunshot wound to the side of her head. He wrapped her wound in towels and rushed her to the local hospital. What a terrifying ordeal for this responsible gun owning father!
Maphis’ son told the Jackson County Sheriff’s deputies that he dropped the shotgun and it went off. Maphis explained that his firearms are usually unloaded and locked up but he forgot to put it away after shooting at birds the previous day. Instead, his shotgun was loaded and sitting on top of a dog kennel. The boy later admitted to police that he did not drop the gun at all, that’s what his father told him to say. He explained to officers that his sister asked him to point the gun at her and he did but got to close to her head. He actually meant to just shoot over her shoulder.
So, not only Mr. Responsible ‘forget’ to put his loaded shotgun away, and leave it in a place that is easily accessible to his two small children but he also told his child to lie. He definitely deserves an award for his stupidity. That’s not even the best part of the story!
The boy’s mother told the sheriff’s department the boy has been shooting firearms since he’s been 3 years old and he has a .22-caliber rifle he’s allowed to shoot with parental supervision, according to the complaint.
Yup the 6-year-old child has been shooting guns since he was three and owns a rifle!!! Are they for real? Why in the world does a three-year old need to shoot a gun? Was the mother saying that as if it somehow gets them off the hook because they tried to teach their child to respect guns?
Responsible gun owners would never, ever forget to lock up their firearms with children in the house. Conservatives will say that it is an isolated incident but it most certainly is not, here’s a short list of incidents this year:
January: A two-year old South Carolina boy was shot in the head by his older brother by accident.
February: Tennessee man accidentally shot in the chest by his brother.
March: A Michigan police officer’s 4-year-old son shot and killed himself at home.
April: A 4-year-old kills a women with a deputy’s loaded gun at a barbecue.
May: A 15-year-old Oklahoma girl dies after accidental gun discharge.
June: A 13-year-old Nevada girl is killed after another girl accidentally fires a weapon.
July: A 16-year-old Texas boy died after a gun he was handling discharged.
August: Wife accidentally shoots and kills her husband in their Arizona home.
September: NYPD officer accidentally shoots two women in Times Square.
That is just a tiny sample of a much larger list. So when gun maniacs say that is just a criminal problem, they are clearly mistaken. Accidental shootings happen ALL THE TIME and many times people die because of them. This little girl was very, very lucky; if her brother had been maybe an inch closer to her skull she’d probably be dead.
Maphis, the responsible gun loving father has been charged with two misdemeanors: leaving a loaded firearm near a child and obstructing an officer. Why he told his son to lie is beyond me, did he think he wouldn’t be in trouble? He left a loaded shotgun on a dog kennel! He just proved to not only be everything wrong with gun lovers USA but also a horrible parent.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sep 19, 2013 - 09:31am PT
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How come reasonable people who own firearms and support background checks dont get any press?
Because nobody is worried about us owning/using guns responsibly. It is the idiots who are shooting into the dark at 3am with people around that people are concerned about... and the ones who try to write their behavior off as just typical drunk hunters having fun, not meaning any harm... it reminds me of the "boys will be boys" defense so prevalent in rape culture... and the ones arguing that if everyone had a gun there would be less gun violence... and the ones that think everyone (except convicted felons) should be able to walk into a gun store and buy any gun they want, any time they want, with a cursory background check, no mental health evaluation, no mandatory safety training, and no insurance for their shiny new killing machine. Responsible gun owners wouldn't be inconvenienced by any of that.
It ain't right... THAT is why it gets press... duh.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 19, 2013 - 09:57am PT
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I'd like to see all mental health records made public, just as arrest/criminal records are.
That way a guy, like this last idiot ( and the one before him, and the one before that ) would earn himself a Red Flag whenever he tried to purchase a gun - just as felons do today - and would flunk a background check.
And as an employer, I'd sure like to know if the guy applying for the job has a history of sh#t like "hearing voices" just as much as I'd like to know if he has any criminal convictions.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 19, 2013 - 10:13am PT
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The USA has an abysmal record in regards to mental illness. It's a disease but those suffering from it get little help and are ostracized by society. Our prisons would be less full and homelessness less apparent if we as a society put some real resources into the treatment of mental illness. Sure it would require real money, but the net result would likely be a fiscal bargin with real savings in many areas.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Sep 19, 2013 - 10:19am PT
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It's not a simplistic 'duh' moment. It's a continuous assault from both sides. The louder you scream and call eachother idiots, the less likely you are to make reasonable compromise.
It's like the rest of politics in this country. Everyone's so f*#king bent on sticking to the party line it's a f*#king miracle anything ever gets done.
And it wouldn't matter anymore what scientific conclusion research might lead us to regarding gun ownership, becausewhat really matters is your emotional response to the issue, specifically fear. Make people afraid, and by God we'll pass a new law to restrict it. And never because of what the majority are doing, it's always some irresponible minority that causes it.
We're afraid to punish those few irresponsible individuals. Instead, we pass some new blanket ban to make it easy. A hanful of people can't be responsible, so f*#k everyone, because it's just too hard to hold a few as#@&%es accountable.
That's what's going to happen. You f*#king chickens.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sep 19, 2013 - 10:19am PT
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We have the resources on hand right now, Mr Donini, but they're being misdirected.
We already have mental hospitals. At least three huge ones in California that I know of; Patton, Atascadero, and Napa.
But they're full of criminals.
Criminals - diseased or not - belong in prisons. It shouldn't matter if they're schizophrenic or diabetic. If they can't behave, they need to be locked up in prison.
We should reserve the state mental institutions for those who need help, but have not done any crimes.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sep 19, 2013 - 10:45am PT
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jonny, personally, I have no fear of guns... unless they are pointed at me. When I'm out climbing and I see/hear hunters, I simply talk to them or yell out so they are aware of my location, and keep climbing... aware and dressed in orange, but not fearful. I own several guns, some of my friends are collectors, most of my cousins hunt, and members of my family have 1 to 6 guns in their houses and several are CCW. I know plenty of climber back in UT who almost always bring their guns on camping/climbing trip.
My desire for legislation designed to ensure only RESPONSIBLE people with proper training can purchase guns does not stem from fear, it stems from common sense.
The majority of gun nuts who protest Starbucks RESPECTFUL REQUEST to not bring guns into their store use the "my right to protect myself" bullsh#t. How many times have you (or anyone you know) needed a gun when you went for a cup of coffee? If you took a random sampling of the public, I'd say the majority of gun nuts/CCWs are the ones most fearful of guns in public... despite the vast majority NEVER NEEDING ONE.
Once again... the propaganda machine has taken the bullshit fear mongering from the right and attributed it to the left. Textbook case of projection.
We're afraid to punish those few irresponsible individuals.
That is nonsense.
Instead, we pass some new blanket ban to make it easy. A hanful of people can't be responsible, so f*#k everyone, because it's just too hard to hold a few as#@&%es accountable.
So, why not try to ensure responsibility BEFORE selling them a weapon? What exactly is your problem with having a more thorough screening process? You know that little test you have to take to get your driver's license... why not AT LEAST something like that? Why not restrict gun purchases to 1 or 2 a year, rather than 1 or 2 a month? etc Where is the fear in that proposal?
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Sep 19, 2013 - 11:02am PT
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mechrist, I recognize your position. I,m talking about and to the majority who are driven by that fear. In fact, i,d guess most people would say they are not motivated by fear, regardless of their viewpoint. aAnd I do mean those on both extreme sides, all driven more by emotion than fact.
How did Cali pass a 50cal ban? How often do those get used in crime? So did they really need that ban? Or would you be more likely to defend yourself from a mugger at Starbucks?
Maybe you're willing to compromise, and that's great. Either you're in the minority, or those like you are just too f*#king lazy to voice their opinion. So, we're left with the screaming extremities that finally affect changes, shitty ones, in public policy.
True, most people will never need a gun for self defense. Thank God, or whatever you believe in, for that.
No, I'm disappointed that todays society feels it is necessary and more effective to rcrew everyone rather than a few irresponsible as#@&%es. It's not just guns, it's a general trend. Same with many other issues.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sep 19, 2013 - 11:29am PT
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How did Cali pass a 50cal ban? How often do those get used in crime?
I'm sure they are not used too often in crimes, but I can imagine any accidents with them would be pretty serious. Imagine if the shooters in Ten Sleep had been using a 50 cal rather than a .233. How many yahoos with 50 cal guns do we really want in the CA hills, blasting away in whatever direction they ASSUME is safe? How many would confirm/assure the safety of others some 2+ miles away? Who needs to shoot a 50 cal anyway?
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Sep 19, 2013 - 11:37am PT
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So despite the lack of accidents/crimes occurring with a 50cal, those weapons usually being a. expensive to own and shoot and b. ostensibly safer than your average .22lr, the whole fear factor of what COULD happen drives you to believe that ban was a good thing? Or are you playing devil's advocate for the hell of it?
Sh#t, just ban the average .308 bolt action. They're statistically more dangerous. See what I mean about emotional vs logical response there?
And who's getting screwed? California, New York, Chicago. Everyone who flies (yeah, thats not gun related), everyone affected by crag access closures, cell phone bans while driving (you relize your children in the bck seat are a bigger distraction, right?), weekend miners who cant dredge in Cali because we dont know how the river is affected (the studies couldnt be conducted by selecting say, half the rivers to close then comparing? nah, we ban it all goddam it!), everyone whos rights are violated by NSA phone surveillance, etc. Shall I continue Norton?
we're ALL getting screwed to various degrees, in the name of public safety. Do you feel safer yet?
You know, the day is coming when your car will self-govern to the posted speed limit the technology is here. Why not use it? Nobody needs to speed. Think how many needless deaths that would prevent!
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Sep 19, 2013 - 11:54am PT
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I never said it was a good thing, or a bad thing. I simply offered a perspective.
So who uses 50 cal and why? You can't really use the self-defense argument for a gun that can accurately hit a target from 2 miles away. Can't really hunt with them. So that leaves you with recreational target practice... which best be done as an organized event anyway.
Besides, they are not banned... just the sale of them is.
You know, the day is coming when your car will self-govern to the posted speed limit the technology is here. Why not use it? Nobody needs to speed. Think how many needless deaths that would prevent!
I can't wait!!!
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Sep 19, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
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That's splitting hairs and you know it. They're not banned if you already own one. And your argument about not hunting doesnt mean much. It would be legal, like hunting elk witjh a 223 in nevada would be legal. People just dont do it. Really, target shooting should be organized? You got some funny ideas. I think you just like stirring the sh#t, looking for cornflakes.
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jonnyrig
Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
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Sep 19, 2013 - 12:08pm PT
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Norton, I think people could have been effectively prosecuted for negligence and that the cell ban is just a revenue tool. I think SOME public safety laws, like the Patriot Act, strip us of our rights and should be repealed. I think there are better ways to handle gun control than banning some types of guns while allowing others. Jesus, some of our most notorious shootings have been commited with plain old traditional style bolt guns.
Background checks? Sure.
Mental health reporting? Sure.
Ban a type of gun thats way down at the bottom of the list of guns that kill domestically because you're afraid of what COULD happen? wtf?
Child seatbelts? Find. Adult seatbelts? Give Darwins theory a chance.
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