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steve shea
climber
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May 14, 2012 - 10:53am PT
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Jim, is there a photo of the Haderer boot with the tib fib sticking out? When in Kitzbhuel in 78 I had a pair made. I did not realize at the time that if I was lost in the mts., I could be identified by the serial number on my boots. Heh heh
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 14, 2012 - 10:56am PT
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I have a photo I took of the remains of Toni Egger with his fib/tib sticking out of a boot- could well be a Haderer, never looked closely.
There is some controversy about the appropriateness of taking and distributing photos of corpses. As an atheist I don't revere corporeal remains but I wonder about the effect on loved ones.
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steve shea
climber
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May 14, 2012 - 11:00am PT
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I remember the photo. I thought it was a Haderer with a serial number and that is how you confirmed it was Egger. Guess my memory is failing... Good point on the distribution of death photos. Although in my limited experience with Asian/Bhudddist culture, once dead and the soul is gone the body is just an inert thing. How else could the deceased's loved ones watch a celestial burial? I think it is an occidental thing, the sacred remains...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 14, 2012 - 11:07am PT
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Maybe you're right, I remember the boot had a made in Austria label.
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E
Social climber
Tujunga CA.
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May 14, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
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the first body I do believe is ray genet. There were two bodys in that place close to the south summit of everest. the other one was a swiss woman named Hannalore Smatze? She had long hair that blew in the wind and would scare the crap outta people on summit day when they would come around the corner. that one blew away in the wind.
On our Manaslu climb in 99 at 7500 meters there were at least 3 bodys in plain sight. 2 skeletons were hugging each other on an icy ledge. The high altitude suits had been shredded in the wind and had become long streamers of bleached out nylon hanging off the wrist and ankle bones. kinda like pirates of the carribean. There was another body right in the trail-boots hanging out of the ice crampons still on-yikes
E
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 14, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
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I agree with Tami. It bothers me more now knowing that first picture is of a friend.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 12:37pm PT
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I also wondered about the appropriateness of posting those pics but I am a believer in learning what it is I am talking about - like the actual, gritty facts of it, not the sanitized version, where "respect" can be used to mask denial. What's more, papering public forums with ghoulish photos of the dead is one thing; coming to grips with what is truly happening in my own sport, to people I either know or have read about, is another.
But I still wonder if taking those pics down might be the right and gracious thing to do. I'll defer to others on this one.
PS: Just read Tami's post. The pics are down.
JL
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
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May 14, 2012 - 12:47pm PT
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We climbers, what a morbidly humorous lot we are. Of course, I'd never say that to anyone except this crowd, (except my wife who knows what a knucklehead I am already and has accepted that part of me!).
Underneath the humor though, lies a deep respect for the dead (in most cases) when it comes to climbers (unless you are some kind of sociopath). Humor can be a way of processing death and be quite healing (remember lots of laughs, not mean-spirited as at,post-funeral gatherings of my family). As climbers, we are much closer to it (death) than society in general is today. Though it was not long ago that something like having a baby or getting a simple infection or cold often killed many.
Just my opinion, but I think climbers are healthier in general being privy to one the guarantees of life. We are all going to face and deal with it, one way or another, eventually.
We all have expiration dates, we just don't know when.
Reminded of the line from the Eiger Sanction, "Climber's always bring back their dead." Sounds better with a heavy German accent and a scowling Clint Eastwood in the frame.
Eric
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Fumbling towards stone
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May 14, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
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Word to what Tammy wrote above.
As a writer and lover of good storytelling, I know that the words, in this case, can be more powerful and respectful than the images.
Interesting that Largo and Tami are great storytellers.
Eric
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 01:04pm PT
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My only reason for referring to the pics is that with 200! corpses on Everest, you'd have to almost stumble over the bodies and this seems like a kind of dirty little secret that gets hushed over for the more glorious summit accounts. Meanwhile people with actual lives are dropping like flies, forever on display in their open casket. That, I believe, is something that needs to be talked about - not as ghoul fodder, but in terms of who that person was and what was their story. Otherwise it's like shutting a crazy Uncle up in the attic and calling that decorum.
In other words, these mountain are in some cases little more than open graveyards. What are your're thoughts about that? I know if El Capitan had fifty or so corpses on it people would be talking about it like all get out.
JL
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 14, 2012 - 02:05pm PT
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I still think novices should be made to view those photos before trying to buy Everest.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 14, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
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I disagree Ron. Novices trying to buy Everest should only be required to do it before they breed.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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May 14, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
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Novices trying to buy Everest should only be required to do it before they breed
First it is a safety issue, now it is birth control!
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steve shea
climber
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May 14, 2012 - 03:13pm PT
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Had that been a white guy on Everest N Ridge in 86', we would have pitched him in a cravasse. Burial at sea so to speak. Tibetan bhuddists however must be given a proper burial. I've been to Everest north and south sides. The south is like Jellystone Park. Trekkers walk all the way to base camp just to gawk at the climbers some almost hoping for an incident. Sort of like some spectators at a car race hoping for a pileup. The north side is very different no where near the extravaganza the south is. As high as I got, 8000m, I saw no bodies. And we were looking. That was a long time ago in 86'. Like I said, I think it is an occidental thing. The sherpas seem to regard the landscape the same with no more reaction to a body than a spent O's cylinder.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 14, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
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So,... no parents on Everest now?
Steve Shea, did you carry occidental insurance?
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steve shea
climber
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May 14, 2012 - 03:30pm PT
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Piton Ron, ah the humor. Could not afford ins, kept my digits crossed and went to several pujas.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 04:07pm PT
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I wasn't aware that a heli could go all the way to 29,000 feet. Now it's just a matter of raising the money and getting a team (I doubt anyone would go for free) to start at the top and rig the corpses with short ropes/slings and have a chopper haul them off in numbers, maybe 4-5 at a time if the pay load ain't too high.
You'd probably have to keep the ship and revolving teams up there for a month but with the funding and the will I'm sure the mountain could be cleaned up. Seems like the right thing to do. In he military it's a code of honor to never leave a comrade behind.
JL
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 14, 2012 - 04:14pm PT
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In the military it's a code of honor to never leave a comrade behind.
Sadly, climbers aren't that high-minded. As we have seen for many years it
has been the norm to leave everything behind.
It just occurred to me that I have at least three friend's bodies still up there.
No wonder I've never wanted to go there.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - May 14, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
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I actually do believe that this is a largely possible endeavor. I'm guessing that most of the climbers/bodies are somewhat near the normal climbing route, and that those killed by falls and swept off by avalanches might be at hard to get to spots. But surely a majority are pretty much right there. Logistics might be tricky, and the corpses would probably have to be bagged lest parts went flying (whoops!) but if we can land a robotic on Mars, this is a sure thing.
But who would ever be able to raise the coin? That's a hard sell.
JL
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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May 14, 2012 - 05:13pm PT
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I dunno about a helicopter recovery. That helicopter weighed about as much as a bucket seat in an F1 car. It'd be easier to attach balloons with GPS locators to the corpses and let the winds carry them away, then recover them sub 8000m. The Sherpa's would easily be able to haul up balloons and tanks to fill them. I mean come on, haven't you seen the movie Up!? 26,350 balloons later you can lift your 4 bedroom, 2 1/2 bath townhouse from the city.
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