Alex Honnold Soloes Monkey Fingers 12b in Zion

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 1 - 144 of total 144 in this topic
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 30, 2012 - 01:48pm PT
Monkey Finger is a 9 pitch 12b crack system in Zion National Park, or at least that's how the topo describes it. It feels a bit easier and a lot shorter, but it's an awesome route regardless. Super nice climbing up a nice clean part of the wall.

I'd thought about onsight soloing it for a long time, basically since 2008 when I soloed Moonlight Buttress. It seemed to represent an ideal challenge - a secure style of climbing, difficult but not really cutting edge, and a manageable size - something I could get my head around. In fact, I drove to Zion earlier in February with the intention of finally doing it, but poor weather conditions and wet rock convinced me to instead climb Shune's Buttress (a good adventure in it's own right, which can be read about on the Clif Blog).

Towards the end of February I returned to Zion, this time hoping to finally do Monkey Finger and maybe a bigger link up. But I lacked the real fire to onsight solo the route; I just didn't really want that level of engagement. Thankfully, Tommy Caldwell and his wife Becca were also planning on climbing in Zion for a few days and he was willing to take a lap up the route with me in the morning before going climbing with Becca in the afternoon. I adjusted my ambitions to simply climbing the route with Tommy and seeing how it felt, then maybe repeating it later if I was properly motivated. Honestly, I was more excited at the prospect of roping up with Tommy than I was at the prospect of scrambling a multipitch 5.12. He's always been a big inspiration but I'd never climbed with him before.

There was still a lot of snow in Zion, the remnants of a big storm the previous week [which I experienced in my Shune's ascent]. It was extremely cold in the early morning and it dampened my enthusiasm for any bigger Zion plans. I could see wet streaks running down the different walls of the canyon - not exactly ideal conditions for free climbing walls. But we were psyched, and made the 5 minute approach with enthusiasm.

We raced up the route in 3 long pitches and then simul rapped back down. It was extremely cold at first, my fingers and toes went numb on the first long link, but we warmed up as we moved. The climbing was fun - very pleasant Indian Creek style cracks, but with better feet and more features. It was a bit sandy, but not too bad by Zion standards. Overall, I think we both just enjoyed romping up a new route.

We were down before noon and parted ways, Tommy to climb with Becca and me decide if I felt like climbing it again by myself or if I would rather just go for a hike before going back to Vegas. Part of me really wanted to do something that I would be proud of, but part of me felt like conditions were bad and that it didn't really matter all that much anyhow. Ultimately I decided to move my car to the Weeping Rock trailhead [which is where the walk off descent from Monkey Finger would leave me], though I almost just ran up Angel's Landing instead - possibly one of the coolest trails in the country.

I hitched a ride with some Japanese tourists back to the base of the route, which had by then come into the sun. Tempted by the promise of sun, Becca had decided she wanted to climb Monkey Finger too, so Tommy was also getting ready for his second lap of the day. I didn't dally, I just tightened up my blown out TC Pros [which I had used on Shune's, including an epic snowy descent, and were starting to look a bit worse for the wear] and started climbing. I underestimated the heat of the sun and had to stop on a small pedestal at the base of the third pitch to take off my long johns and shirt. I think it was the first time I've taken my pants off while soloing.

The climbing went smoothly, almost mundanely. I hesitated a bit at the base of the Monkey Finger pitch, a glorious 5.12b splitter that breaks out of the main corner system. I considered going around it, because there's a 10b wide crack continuing up the corner that offers a much more secure alternative, but finally decided that I wouldn't feel good about myself soloing the route if I avoided the namesake pitch.
Otherwise, the climbing was almost boring, and has subsequently made me reflect on my motivations and wonder why I felt so compelled to do it when it wasn't even that much of a growth experience for me.

I saw a big horn wandering up on top of the route, which was exciting for me. And as it turns out, extremely helpful, because I wound up following a set of big horn prints through fresh powder for the entire treacherous hike up to the mesa rim. It was presumably the same animal, though I couldn't be sure. But there was only a single set of tracks through an otherwise virgin mountainside of fresh snow. It made me think about Native Americans and spirit guides and things like that - it really did feel like the sheep had guided me to safety.

Once on top of the mesa it was fairly simple to pick up the Observation Point trail and jog back down to where I had stashed my car. I was down by early afternoon and made myself a much needed late lunch.

Monkey Finger was probably my most anticlimactic "big wall" free solo. I really wanted it to be badass - for it to be something to feel proud of - but it just wasn't. It was fun, it was good climbing, it's a great route. But it just didn't feel rad to me, which makes me worry that I'm getting a bit jaded. Still a good experience to be sure, and the hike off was lonely and beautiful, but just not quite the intensity that I was maybe hoping for.
yo

climber
Mudcat Spire
Apr 30, 2012 - 01:53pm PT
He was bored.

My heavens.
MisterE

Social climber
Apr 30, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
Things that make you say "Hmm"

Bighorn sheep’s message is that of new beginnings. If you have this animal for your power ally, have confidence in your powers to land safely on your feet, in most circumstances. The spiral horn symbolizes your creativity, energy, and endurance. You can initiate new projects and have the strength to complete them. Defend your territory and test your strength, but do not lock horns just to prove your point. Think before you act. Stay in balance with your environment by hiking ,walking, or climbing.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:01pm PT
I was more excited at the prospect of roping up with Tommy than I was at the prospect of scrambling a multipitch 5.12.

yeah, the prospect of scrambling up a multipitch 5.12 sounds like a yawner for him...


seriously though,
i hope he gives all these climbs the respect they deserve when climbing ropeless...
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
No doubt. Good for Alex, but maybe time to change focus for awhile, away from cordless? It seems that if that's almost boring, his attention could drift, especially on a sleeper 11a pitch that's a bit sandy and insecure.

Just thinkin'.
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
Big balls on sandstone.....

I'm just a weekend warrior that's probably gotten as many vertical miles in my lifetime as this kid has gotten in a few years.

Don't holds every break on this guy? I've snapped off a few that have left me dangling.

zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
Once you're out-o-de-closet I guess the sky truly is the limit.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
On the FA (and the second ascent too) we also went to the rim and down the trail.

Only took 34 years for the unplugged version.

Good show, Alex.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:24pm PT
Must have been taking a rest day.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
Amazing seems too tame of a word to describe the lad.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
nbd.
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:49pm PT
Cool
Roxy

Trad climber
CA Central Coast
Apr 30, 2012 - 02:54pm PT

amazing....he's just so nonchalant about it all
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 30, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
Maybe he shudda done it without the preview. Might not have been so boring.
jsb

Trad climber
Bay area
Apr 30, 2012 - 03:30pm PT
Otherwise, the climbing was almost boring, and has subsequently made me reflect on my motivations and wonder why I felt so compelled to do it when it wasn't even that much of a growth experience for me.

That sounds like a growth experience to me.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Apr 30, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
scrambling a multipitch 5.12.

I still label 4th class as 'climbing' :`((((((((((((((((
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 30, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
Make sure your room is clean before going Alex.

nutjob

Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
Apr 30, 2012 - 03:50pm PT
Don't be late for supper!

But seriously, just stay in touch with that inner voice of reason. It's easy to let that voice get lost with louder voices competing for attention.

Thus sayeth a 5.9/5.10 plunker!
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Apr 30, 2012 - 03:51pm PT
The part about him chasing a sheep while half-naked causes some concern. Perhaps Russ and Craig should talk with him.
WBraun

climber
Apr 30, 2012 - 03:53pm PT
I really wanted it to be badass

But it just didn't feel rad to me, which makes me worry that I'm getting a bit jaded.

I really have no business in another mans vice.

But speaking from my own personal experience with free soloing one will encounter this kind of thinking from our mind.

It will tell you it needs the next level above the previous and draw you towards that in many ways possible.

Lucky for me I still had both feet firmly planted in the Merced river, (grounded), otherwise I could possible be dead now instead of writing this post.

I learned to control that runway fickle mind from trying to control me .....
John Mac

Trad climber
Littleton, CO
Apr 30, 2012 - 04:06pm PT
Wise words spoken!

Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Apr 30, 2012 - 04:18pm PT
if Alex Honnold happened to be your own son, what advice would you give him?

Son, I wish you would stick to the granite . . .
Mimi

climber
Apr 30, 2012 - 04:31pm PT
Wow! Nicely documented experience. Stay solid out there, Alex!

Werner, I'm glad you got control of that fickle mind too.
labrat

Trad climber
Nevada City, CA
Apr 30, 2012 - 04:39pm PT
Son,
My fondest memories are experiencing and sharing things with people. Not the things I've done out and about by myself.

Take me climbing! My summer break is almost here......
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Apr 30, 2012 - 05:12pm PT
become an old dinosaur posting on some future climbing website.

LOL!!!
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 30, 2012 - 05:14pm PT
become an old dinosaur posting on some future climbing website.


I think I prefer that to cratering at high velocity from high high up....
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Apr 30, 2012 - 05:21pm PT
to become an old dinosaur posting on some future climbing website.


Hey! F*#k you!

;-)
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 30, 2012 - 05:24pm PT
Hudon, +1 !!!

These are for you sonny...

( . )( . )
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Apr 30, 2012 - 07:08pm PT
These are for you sonny...

( . )( . )


And these are for you grandpah ;)

ŲŲ
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Apr 30, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
Did someone say old guys?

S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 30, 2012 - 07:15pm PT
phuq, I WISH a 9 pitch .12b solo, was boring to me.
yo

climber
Mudcat Spire
Apr 30, 2012 - 07:25pm PT
Did you get that vibrator I faxed over?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 30, 2012 - 07:46pm PT
What room? I didn't see past the little shorts, oh wait...yeah, there it is.
part-time communist

Mountain climber
Apr 30, 2012 - 07:48pm PT


For sure, the guy can write pretty well. I hadn't seen his stuff before.

What can we say? We can doom and gloom and repeat the names of the fallen, but it is the statement of his entire being that he wagers with the price of his own hide.

I wish Alex all the luck in the world. I hope that the industry built around him doesn't taint his quest.

you should try to stay on topic
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Apr 30, 2012 - 07:52pm PT
I wish Alex all the luck in the world. I hope that the industry built around him doesn't taint his quest.

Did you say "taint"?
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Apr 30, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
No, he isn't as deep.














Here is proof;
WBraun

climber
Apr 30, 2012 - 08:28pm PT
Alex is the best trad climber in world.

The only guys better than him the materialists can't see with their mundane eyeballs.

Ho man .....
Longstick

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 30, 2012 - 08:43pm PT
Son, everything for you is marked on a yardstick scale from 'utterly boring....to....this screams, "I am alive!!!" ... do you carry any other yardsticks? Tell me about them...I want to hear those stories and feel what that is like for you. Stop...don't run away. I want to hear... intensely, I want to listen. Don't talk to me about climbing ...not now. Too many people ask you for that one...and you forget about the rest.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Apr 30, 2012 - 08:44pm PT
i liked the write-up, especially the puff for angel's landing and the bit about following the bighorn up and out.

S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
Apr 30, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
Alex H. onsighted this one:

Shune's Buttress!!

Yesterday I onsight soloed Shune's Buttress, a 8 pitch 5.11+. It was something that I'd considered for the first time years ago but had never been motivated enough to do, but yesterday I had the right amount of pent up energy and hunger for adventure so I finally made it happen.

The forecast in Zion was super grim; it'd been raining the day before and it was supposed to rain after 1pm, but I figured that gave me a solid 5 hours to climb something before the next wave of storm came in. My biggest worry was that Zion's soft sandstone might be too friable after the previous nights rain, but I figured I could tread carefully and bail if it seemed suspect. I'm super careful when I'm soloing anyway, so whether it was wet or not I still would be just as suspicious of the rock.

I hiked up to the base of a couple different routes, trying to decide what looked the driest and most doable. Ultimately I settled on Shune's since it's mostly secure-looking crack climbing and they looked pretty dry. Normally to descend off Shune's you rappel the route, but since I didn't want to take a rope and harness up the route [it sort of takes the fun out of soloing if you have to carry all the same gear but alone] I figured I could try to pioneer a hike off the top.

I took a tiny backpack with my running shoes, a pint of water, 2 Z Bars, a Mojo bar, and some Blocks. I hadn't really eaten breakfast, but I was impatient to get on the route and beat the coming weather.

The climbing was a pleasure. I hadn't climbed on sandstone cracks in a long time and as soon as I started jamming I felt totally indestructible. The position is nice and exposed and you climb up a pretty cool tower. Even the climbing is enjoyable and technical. It was everything I hoped for, and almost entirely dry. At least dry enough to not be a problem. I felt great when I topped out - until I looked up and realized that I had at least another 750 ft of snow covered slabs to ascend before I reached the rim of the canyon. As I sat on top and considered the first snow flakes started falling, which suited my mood perfectly. It was really pretty but they weren't really sticking, entertaining but not a problem.

But as I started up the snow [well, consolidated hail actually] covered slabs it started snowing in earnest. Visibility dropped to a hundred feet or less, which was a big concern since I wasn't entirely sure where I was going and the topography in Zion is super complex. Big sheer canyons cut every which way through the mesa, making it hard to hike cross country or in straight lines.

My pants and sweater started getting pretty wet from post-holing in snow and falling down all the time. I had to switch back into climbing shoes because the slabs were so steep and technical, particularly because of the snow. For a few minutes I actually worried that I might get stuck on the slabs and that exposure could be an issue, though I eventually found a way onto the main ridge and back towards the mesa.To make a long story short, I eventually stumbled across the hiking trail [quite the stroke of luck, since everything was under a solid foot of snow] and made the 10 mile hike back down to the canyon floor. It snowed the whole time. I was wet and cold and hungry.

The day's summary: the 8 pitches of glorious climbing probably took less than an hour , the snowy nightmare descent took something like 4+ hours. But I had exactly the adventure I was hungry for, and today I'm actually content taking a rest day. I fed the beast.

Johnny K.

climber
Apr 30, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Apr 30, 2012 - 11:57pm PT
Coz said
I'm kind of a big deal but I'm not gonna spray about it.

I LOLed
Slabby D

Trad climber
B'ham WA
May 1, 2012 - 12:55am PT
Whoa! Like someone go get that guy a shoe sponsorship or something....
Mimi

climber
May 1, 2012 - 01:04am PT
Coz, not again! First, you're greener than YC and now you're telling the Golden One to sack down?! This is rich. Your post is about as transparent and disingenuous as it gets around here.

Didn't he and someone walk up Southern Belle last season and comment that it was casual? You don't have an ax to grind do ya?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 1, 2012 - 01:08am PT
One Man's boredom is another Man's impossible

But there is this aspect of climbing that's like an adrenaline addiction, and drugs develop tolerance so it takes more and more to get as high.

Better hope that you can improve fast enough to stay ahead of the monkey on your back

I think Alex is a great guy and don't begrudge him risking his life on such an edge. We're eternal beings after all. But....don't have kids anytime soon bro..

Peace

Karl
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 1, 2012 - 01:15am PT
Ouch Mimi!!

Coz is gonna misspell some sh#t at you now!
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
May 1, 2012 - 01:26am PT
This might clear it up. I don't think you can fault the technique, but the write up is a bit lacking.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

Compare with this obviously green guy, who is hesitant unsure and perhaps overly grounded

[Click to View YouTube Video]


Some lizards are just more equal than other lizards.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
May 1, 2012 - 01:38am PT
Alex, if your listening,

get a job at 7/11 and raise some kids,

and keep plenty of dogs on those stainless steel rollers, because you never know when the iranian hot dog eaters will show up,

seriously, my buddy worked at the circle jerk on Nord in Chico, and every friday at 2 am, 4 iranian dudes would show up and buy 30 hot dogs, without buns, take them to their car and eat them. hopefully.

now this info does not come cheap, so i sure hope you appreciate it,

sandstone requires that you test the holds by pulling on them with more weight than you intend to apply for the next move,

this way you know the hold will hold, Doh!
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
May 1, 2012 - 01:44am PT
thats not a lump, thats my schlong,
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 1, 2012 - 03:59am PT
Soloing hard, bad ass routes, is incredible. Writing about them, publishing them for general consumption, is marketing. Marketing has its place for selling goods but when those goods are your brains and blood you better have the container of those brains screwed on pretty tight lest you lose what you're trying to sell.

I wish Alex the best on the path that he has chosen and whatever he chooses in the future.
ImplicitD

Trad climber
Boise
May 1, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
Alex,

You have said in some videos that you only want to solo as long as it is fun.

Perhaps this is a moment of truth.

Be careful...you play a very serious game. Maybee its time for a relationship.



Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
May 1, 2012 - 03:44pm PT
thats not a lump, thats my schlong,

Few things have made me laugh out loud like that.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
May 1, 2012 - 04:01pm PT
coz,

there are ways to get your point across without blowin yourself....but then you have never figured that out have you?
sagot

Trad climber
Vancouver
May 1, 2012 - 04:04pm PT
I'm just wondering why he wrote about it?
I bet Croft did 50 routes like that and never even talked about them.
Cloudraker

Sport climber
San Diego, CA
May 1, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
If I'm not mistaken Croft refused sponsorship BITD so had no reason/obligation to tell the world
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
May 1, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
Does PTC wear those shorty shorts out in public, or was that the only thing she could find in that bomb explosion of a room? Good christ, I hope your climbing gear, or your bivvy sites, aren't that sloppy.
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
May 1, 2012 - 05:05pm PT
@Hawkeye,

Dood, IMO, Coz is right on.


And as far as Hondo being in...

another Realm

Anyone that has soloed and on sight soloed within a grade or less of their particular free-climbing ability has entered that realm. He may be the man of the hour whose ability, so far, transcends anyone else. But that is all temporal at best. What the issue seems to be is, what is the motivation. Why are you doing it. I believe it was Croft who, after he had soloed A-man and the Rostrum one afternoon, said that you better not be doing it for anyone else but yourself.
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
May 1, 2012 - 05:09pm PT
It does seem kind of weird to share personal free soloing adventures so openly and to such a wide audience right after the ascent. But these days people share everything, so maybe Honnold's 'trip reports' are best understood in that context rather than trying to psychoanalyze how much of his soloing drive is good or bad, or whatever. I'm certainly not going to tell someone who climbs as well as Honnold that he's not capable, or that he will die. Honnold is the only one who can say if his soloing is negligent or if he's soloing for the wrong reason.

With that said, coz and WBraun can give some valuable insight into their own experiences.

However, I'm not sure if telling a driven and talented soloist that he is going to die, or that he shouldn't solo is a good tactic. Soloing is a black art, and soloists think for themselves. It's best not to challenge them so openly, IMHO, if you are trying to get them to notch it down a bit.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2012 - 05:17pm PT
Anyone that has soloed and on sight soloed within a grade or less of their particular free-climbing ability has entered that realm.


He hasn't solo'd 5.14.
Mimi

climber
May 1, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
Coz, it's pretty obvious who needs to STFU. Your displaced ego is so blinding that you continue to make an idiot of yourself as indicated by your numerous Sage of the Next Generation diatribes. I can't tell if you're posting while drunk or you're just innately stupid.

Do you think Alex reads these posts or cares what people think about how he's pursuing his craft? If you're so worried about him, why not contact him directly instead of throwing your negativity down and telling the guy he's 'messed up'? WTF do you know about his mindset or MO to make such a statement? Because he writes about his adventures instead of being secretive? That doesn't automatically condemn his motives.

Many of us actually enjoy reading about this. He is a special climber to say the least. What he's doing should be appreciated, not scorned. If something should happen to him while he's doing this, so be it. Of course we all dread this possibility like we have for all of the great solo climbers. He knows what can happen!

I also disagree with your interpretation of what Werner meant so don't try to play that card.

Cheers,
Mimi
splitter

Trad climber
Hodad surfing the galactic plane
May 1, 2012 - 06:08pm PT
coz- sounds like your a little messed up...

Ha, ha!!

No shit!! We're all messed up to some degree or another.

So WTF??

Has Mr. Honnold become such a god that we are not allowed to offer an opinion?

Maybe in some minds, but...

If someone becomes such in his personal opinion of himself, then that's another matter. I sincerely doubt that's the case. But Alex has put himself in the public arena by writing about his personal accomplishments and endeavors. So, we should be free to respond, to give our personal opinions. Especially those that have been there. We can "Rah, Rah Rah, can't wait to here about when you solo the Nose." Or we can say whatever. Coz has his own personal approach/opinion...so WTF??

Who's to say what should be considered or censored?

Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
May 1, 2012 - 06:12pm PT
coz, dont bite the troll bait.
what you say is sincere and warranted.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 1, 2012 - 06:16pm PT
If everyone who should STFU did so, there wouldn't even be a forum.

Let everyone be the freak they are

even Alex

Has anyone died yet doing one of their hard solos or has it always been some route that should have been sort casual for them?

Peace

Karl
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 1, 2012 - 06:16pm PT
I just wonder where the impression comes from that the older generation of soloists..Croft, Bachar, etc, were completely under the radar with their exploits. Bachar obviously wasn't, he was on network TV and commercials soloing for pete's sake.

But let's just stick to Croft...If the above poster's impression were so, how the hell would any of us have ever heard of those feats? How would we even know his name or have ever seen pictures in the dominant media of the day of him soloing Tips, Red Zinger, etc in a day when Epperson would have had to do quite a bit of work to get in position for those shots in the first place. This "silent warrior" representation is some romanticized version of history that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny, IMO.

Today with the rise of the internet and a digi camera that shoots video in every pocket, it's a natural progression that AH writes a bit about his adventures for his sponsors. It's not like he cooks up these schemes in public beforehand, then feels forced to go through with it, he does what he'd be doing anyway. And if you're a mid 5.14 climber, soloing a couple NUMBER grades below your abilities, how is that some insane death wish? Probably most of us who solo at all have soloed to a level that far below our max.

GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
May 1, 2012 - 06:19pm PT
I think it's important to take message board posts with a bit more grain of salt. It's a good practice to allow yourself not to be offended by name-calling, or hurt ego, or what it may be. I get caught up too, its like everyone is just waiting to be offended so they can be justified in getting upset. Life is tough, maybe work is stressful or relationships are rocky but its important to contain those those and be objective about your motivations. A man I trust as a great judge of character said that Scott is a great guy and I hear the same about mimi... None of this sh#t is really a big deal. Honnold won't read this, and even if he does I'm sure he doesn't get faded by what anyone has to say. Keep the positive energy going and look for redeeming qualiities in people. How privileged are we, we get to spend our time in the most gorgeous places doing amazing things. I like to think that Alex spent more time in his own head than I have crawled in there so I give him the benefit of the doubt, but he gave my mom and I a ride from manure pile last fall after a four hour ascent of the nose. Say what you want but Kobe isn't picking granny up after a playoff game.

I'm grabbing some coffee in camp before heading out to do some bouldering in curry, if you got time to post and are in the area feel free to join, the weather is great and I got a pad for us.
pc

climber
May 2, 2012 - 12:26am PT




I love the Taco.
Tim Camuti

Trad climber
CA
May 2, 2012 - 12:45am PT
I love the Taco

Seconded.

Alex took a tremendous joy out of climbing with his Dad when he was still with us; thanks to all of you climbers for thinking of that same role and relationship- mentors are a powerful presence in our lives.
I, too, worry about anyone who chooses to free solo and hope that Alex is able to find another pursuit to feed his passion for the vertical lifestyle beyond free soloing. I also hope that we all start paying attention to his corded ascents and achievements, too. While the soloing he does is for himself, the media is a part of the problem and I like to do my part by focusing on people's roped climbing achievements.

This thread has made me laugh at least once per page. Again, I love the Taco.
chill

climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
May 2, 2012 - 12:58am PT
Mimi,

What resume do u have to have a voice in this discussion?

Coz - no one needs a resume to have voice, here or anywhere else.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
May 2, 2012 - 01:00am PT
You, sir, must not have climbed in Yosemite.






I keed, I keed :]


Also, Athletes Die Young shut me down HAAARD. Hehe.
Mimi

climber
May 2, 2012 - 01:47am PT
Scott, shirley you jest! You really are slow to pose such a query.

Stand down? The last time you uttered those words was for the WOS comedy and we saw how that ended. Liars be damned and those who supported them.

As slander is a mostly legal term, please describe what you mean here. Prove you're smart by proving you're smart smarty pants. M'kay?

Go on, go on, I triple dare ya!!!!!1111
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
May 2, 2012 - 01:54am PT
I can understand that it's not normal practice for cutting edge soloists to spray about their exploits but I think there is a side to Alex that realizes he needs to market himself to be free to live the life he wants. Sometimes that means interviews or specials on 60 minutes or citibank commercials. Whatever it is I fail to see that being a main motivator for Alex. From what I gather he still does a ton of solos he rarely if ever talks about unless asked.

There's another aspect to him though that I see every time I see his face. It just lights up with those big googly eyes whenever he is talking about climbing. It would seem to me that hes just so excited to be able to do these things he dreams about, maybe he just wants to share a little bit of that with everyone. He overflows with childish enthusiasm, the same kind that seems to have carried Croft through his experiences.

It also seems possible that for someone so constantly followed by public eye maybe he prefers to tell the story the same way he climbs, on his OWN terms. He says/ does/types what he wants and it's us who sit around and contemplate. I'm imagine Alex is over it and thinking about the next one.
Mimi

climber
May 2, 2012 - 02:15am PT
Alex's writings are a treat. He says as much about his adventures as you point out Synchro.

Unless people write about their experiences climbing, then they are lost and aren't shared. Not that everything has to be documented, but sharing your experience is a gift, no different than poetry. We celebrate this all the time on climbing threads. Who doesn't appreciate a good climbing story that makes our palms sweat? Even if we know we will never climb at that level. Jello solos a route on Pumori, how do we know? He told us about it. Thank you, Jello. How was it. Just the way he described it. In our dreams!
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
May 2, 2012 - 02:19am PT
I want to hear more!
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
May 2, 2012 - 02:21am PT
Really? Well it's a pretty big move and I'm 5'8" with a -2 ape. Maybe my beta was bad.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2012 - 03:48am PT
What ElCap Sez is True

The media and format have changed somewhat

and in fact, back in the day, the sense of competition and Oneupmanship was probably even greater, it just happened around the fire and camp due to lack of media

Peace

karl
slayton

Trad climber
Here and There
May 2, 2012 - 04:51am PT
None of this really matters. The only question that matters is why Alex climbs these hard solos and then why he promotes them. I have no issue with the climbing but in its promotion. I don't know if Bachar or Croft show boated their solos. I just know that right now Alex is displaying his solo climbing for all that cares to read about it.

I don't think that there is necessarily wrong with that but I do think that chasing that specter could lead to grim deeds.

Again, my best wishes to Alex on his current path and that which he chooses to follow.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 2, 2012 - 05:40am PT
Maybe he's played out - could be time to take up big wave surfing.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 2, 2012 - 06:02am PT
None of this really matters. The only question that matters is why Alex climbs these hard solos and then why he promotes them. I have no issue with the climbing but in its promotion. I don't know if Bachar or Croft show boated their solos. I just know that right now Alex is displaying his solo climbing for all that cares to read about it.

You don't know if Bachar show boated? Well he soloed 5.12 on national tv, so yeah, I'd call that show boating.

All of them are on a level well beyond what I'm willing to do, so I'm no judge. Just glad I made it to 50 and I get to share a lot of things with my wonderful kids.
MisterE

Social climber
May 2, 2012 - 08:15am PT
It does seem kind of weird to share personal free soloing adventures so openly and to such a wide audience right after the ascent. But these days people share everything, so maybe Honnold's 'trip reports' are best understood in that context rather than trying to psychoanalyze how much of his soloing drive is good or bad, or whatever. I'm certainly not going to tell someone who climbs as well as Honnold that he's not capable, or that he will die. Honnold is the only one who can say if his soloing is negligent or if he's soloing for the wrong reason.

With that said, coz and WBraun can give some valuable insight into their own experiences.

However, I'm not sure if telling a driven and talented soloist that he is going to die, or that he shouldn't solo is a good tactic. Soloing is a black art, and soloists think for themselves. It's best not to challenge them so openly, IMHO, if you are trying to get them to notch it down a bit.

Well put.
jstan

climber
May 2, 2012 - 09:31am PT
Suppose individual X starts dating Attila the Hun's daughter. That is a life and death decision. Would there be a thread like this were that to happen? No.

Suppose individual Y starts bolting sidewalks. We have threads on that. Do they accomplish anything? No.

Suppose we weigh in on individual Z's soloing and for some unknown reason Z is distracted and bad things happen. Might some of us regret having said anything? Possibly.

This thread is a lose lose from everyone's perspective, as best I can see.

Is there a reason we do this?
John Butler

Social climber
SLC, Utah
May 2, 2012 - 09:48am PT
This thread is a lose lose from everyone's perspective, as best I can see.

Yep...

:-)

and speaking of losing... I've ordered a DaBrim
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
May 2, 2012 - 09:54am PT
I think it has more to do with Alex's age and experience, not his raw ability.

Sure he might hike 5.12d but does he have the years of experience to recognize the unknown objective hazards? I'd guess not.

Only with age do some of us finally grasp how little we really control.

If he were my son, I'd be wondering where I went wrong and trying to get him some perspective and help before he finally craters. Could anyone here seriously sleep at night knowing their child is free-soloing 5.12 slab moves thousands of feet off the ground?

But he's not my son so I guess I can just enjoy the show in the meantime...
Kalimon

Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
May 2, 2012 - 10:10am PT
As parents we worry about our children . . . it is only natural. The important thing is to put our concerns in perspective and allow them to live their lives to the fullest, according to their own desires. Is this not the wonderful freedom that we as climbers hold sacred?

Life is complicated, fleeting and unpredictable . . . we are all just feeling our way along, hoping for the best possible outcome. The best we can do is live our own dream and accept what happens . . . no one knows what this existence is really about anyway, so judging the actions of our fellow humans is futile.

Thank you Alex for inspiring us with feats most of us cannot even imagine.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 2, 2012 - 10:12am PT
Same could be said for somebody's Son joining the military in a high risk position.

So the question comes up and the answer is individual because it depends on how you see Life.

Is it OK to put your experience of (adventure/self challenge/exploration/intensity/???) ahead of safety and do things that appear unimaginably dangerous?

but maybe are/maybe aren't. I've been around a long time and can't think of a top level soloist that died doing a top level solo. Bachar was older with serious physical issues from his accident that died on a route trivial to him. Hershey died on a 5.9 he probably could have downclimbed and did laps on.

if we're going to fret about then dangerous things people do, it might make rational sense to go after what people have statistically got actually killed doing, like Himalayan Mountaineering.

Soloing is obviously life or death and it's plain to whomever is doing it. It's a choice and the danger is so obvious that people tend to only do what they have the true Ju Ju to master

Yes a rock can come down and take them out anytime, but apparently a rogue wave is just as likely and the universe has some subtle order that protects fools and masters (or both in the same guy) Yabo had to shoot himself.

Peace

Karl
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 2, 2012 - 10:16am PT
I can understand that it's not normal practice for cutting edge soloists to spray about their exploits

You folks keep saying things like this, evertytime this kind of topic comes up, so provide some examples. Because this is what you WISH were true, not what is actually true.

DanO - All over the Masters of Stone series soloing. On a "No Fear" brand poster, soloing.

Reardon - Sprayed like a waterhose. All over video, Acopa ads, his own website "freesoloist.com" with full rundowns of hard stuff he soloed (or claimed to, anyway).

Dean - All over Masters of Stone series, soloing.

Even the fairer sex... Steph, soloing in the Creek, Castelton, and the Diamond, on video.

I already covered Bachar and Croft above. Maybe you have a different idea of who qualifies as "cutting edge soloists".
fsck

climber
May 2, 2012 - 10:19am PT
seriously though,
i hope he gives all these climbs the respect they deserve when climbing ropeless...

huh?

what does that even mean?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
May 2, 2012 - 10:44am PT
Is soloing with da brim kinda like freebase?
Kalimon

Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
May 2, 2012 - 10:47am PT
Let's not even get started on the issue of drugs.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
May 2, 2012 - 11:09am PT
Thank you for sharing these incredible moments in climbing history Alex by putting pen to paper, or words on computers, whatever it is.
Really good writing, I was able to be there in my mind and share the experience. Awesome.
klk

Trad climber
cali
May 2, 2012 - 12:24pm PT
folks who are uneasy reading about honnold soloing two number grades below his ability on decent rock in good weather should simply never, ever, ever read anything at all about alpine climbing much less high-altitude stuff.

this is where the sport's at. a few hours in the death zone on a route he rehearsed with a bail-out option on the crux pitch. sounds like a pretty reasoned choice to me, given the level he's at.

and i, too, have been uneasy with the turn to documentation of each and every solo, sometimes in real-time. but it started decades ago in europe. and if he didn't do it, there'd be threads all over ST on how he was lying and hadn't really done it, etc.

he's a pro climber. makes his living doing this. a lot dicier way to make it as a pro than, say, being chris sharma and crushing sport climbs. or living on the comp circuit. but a lot less dicey than being an alpinist let alone a high-altitude hero.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
Let Alex do what he wants. He knows the dangers, he's kind of smart it seems.

Sounds to me like he's doing the things you upset people wish you could do, on a rope.

Give him good vibes. Don't be negative about it. Don't be the first to jerk off if something happens and be like "I TOLD YOU SO"

Remember, you're gonna die someday too.
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
May 2, 2012 - 04:43pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tq0B8Br_rk
seems like a chill cat.
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
May 2, 2012 - 04:47pm PT
Mr. Honnold wears Da Clif, thank you and gets paid handomely for it.


Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
May 2, 2012 - 05:07pm PT
all of us pursuers of wee meaning
know from experience how blinding
ambitions can be.

all of us older geez also
know that a youthful brain
sometimes lies to your feet.

maturity can only be earned,
not imparted.

alex is livin fast and inspired.
its fvckin amazing to behold as a spectator.

i imagine his hyper-verve is quite taxing
upon his spiritual currency.

take care, man.
well-being is slippery,
sometimes it tends toward lunacy,
and then it becomes beautiful.

i would suggest, for this is how i tiptoe between
the intimate thresholds of living and dying,
that you offset your incredibly bold accomplishments
with sit still periods within a canyon or upon a
shiver in time.

reflect back and forth,
your heart and your mind between these two
emotional horizons.

build a vision
and then allow it to explode.

live long and thrive.
live short and thrive.
i hold nothing against you
for you have leaned bravely against the
mountain,
and i know that the mountain leans
back against you,
and those mountains sometimes need support.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2012 - 05:21pm PT
No. Jason Kruk I think is the dude who sh#t his pants.

Cedar Wright was the dude who almost got poo'd on. =[
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
May 2, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
I think it was John Kruk, the guy with one nut.
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
May 2, 2012 - 08:06pm PT
Honnold takes up wave riding, joins Da Hui. Source Supertopo Newsletter.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
May 2, 2012 - 08:24pm PT
Weeg, you're amazing!
Roxy

Trad climber
CA Central Coast
May 2, 2012 - 08:57pm PT
that was a cool video, thx
S.Leeper

Social climber
somewhere that doesnt have anything over 90'
May 2, 2012 - 08:58pm PT
welcome
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
May 2, 2012 - 10:37pm PT
It's not as easy, but much more rewarding, I know lots of dead guys, and it sounds like you're a little messed up, so chill, your family loves you.

I do not think he is messed up. My regular friends think I am messed up for climbing in general. Alex H. is a special kind, a unique individual. I hope he will achieve what ever he wants in this life, and does not die soloing, but of old age, some day much later.

Good luck!
Synchronicity

Trad climber
British Columbia, Canada
May 2, 2012 - 11:30pm PT
You folks keep saying things like this, evertytime this kind of topic comes up, so provide some examples. Because this is what you WISH were true, not what is actually true.

DanO - All over the Masters of Stone series soloing. On a "No Fear" brand poster, soloing.

Reardon - Sprayed like a waterhose. All over video, Acopa ads, his own website "freesoloist.com" with full rundowns of hard stuff he soloed (or claimed to, anyway).

Dean - All over Masters of Stone series, soloing.

Even the fairer sex... Steph, soloing in the Creek, Castelton, and the Diamond, on video.

I already covered Bachar and Croft above. Maybe you have a different idea of who qualifies as "cutting edge soloists".

Ok so scratch the term "cutting edge" but I stand by what I said. Many well known soloists DO publicize their exploits but there are a great many people not so well known that solo quietly for their own pleasure. Some even solo at or near their limit (which is obviously relative) and few decide to talk about it unless asked. I'm not saying its a bad thing when people do spray, to the contrary, for me it's the most interesting thing to read and a look into a world I can barely comprehend. I don't necessarily correlate "spraying" with motivations at all.

Regardless of all this speculation, from my experience you can fool the masses but you can't fool yourself. I would be hard pressed to believe someone like Dano, Potter, Hersey, Bachar, Reardon, Croft, Honnold, anybody would find themselves hundreds of feet off the ground ropeless if they didn't truly believe in what they were doing. Besides who am I or you to question someones motives?

The problem in soloing is that it may not matter why you do it, or what makes you tick, you can still die either way. To quote Joe Simpson "You like to think you control the odds by your judgement and by your skill and its not exactly true".

As for me I'm not soloing 5.12b so nobody cares anyways, but to me these experiences, however small, are powerful and addictive. I constantly ask myself why I want to do it before I go. I've told my experiences to a few trusted friends but some of the most important things I've ever done I keep to myself. I think no matter what you could say to explain, nobody could ever understand the personal feeling inside you at that moment and what it means to you is a very individual thing.
Rankin

Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
May 3, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]

boomdogg

Trad climber
California
May 3, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
How are his write ups and motivations any different than the Trip Report section on this site? People die climbing all the time. It's a dangerous activity. Just because he's soloing doesn't mean it HAS to be a secret.

Writing a trip report doesn't mean you're doing it for the wrong reasons. People document their climbs for all sorts of reasons and I find it a wee bit hypocritical to criticize Alex for doing it also. I love reading trip reports (or spray, whatever you wanna call it), and I hope he continues to document his incredible outings.
LongAgo

Trad climber
May 4, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
Notes to Honnold

The Fall

I so hope you don’t fall. You seem filled with authentic joy for the walls and moving on them. Bravo, it’s all that matters. Hope you can enjoy the walls for a long time. A rope adds to the odds you can do so for a longer time, of course. Your choice.

Humbled
It is humbling to watch you climb. You make it hard for all of us to gab about our climbs and how or why we climb. You make some of us feel we should forever shut up on climbing so small is all by comparison. Take the sport trad bolt and climbing style debate we wrangle about – puff, irrelevant as here we have no protection hardware of any kind placed, no rope tension to work moves, no previewing. Well, I guess you don’t on-sight everything you do solo, but still. Bravo again to your skill and accomplishments.

Fulfillment
Your writing gives an inkling of finding an odd truth about climbing: it does not matter if you climb rope less, nude, upside down, every day, 10 days a year, on rock, snow, 5.4 or 5.14; the essence of it is what you gain inside. Preoccupation with feats in climbing obscures this truth, but there it is. As your latest most honest writing on MF suggests, even your level of achievement may or may not fulfill. There is the rub for you, for all of us. Keep an eye on what fulfills. The freedom of soloing, the unobstructed movement is wonderful. So too is looking out to the mountains, rivers, meadows, sky and horizon from a belay, and bantering with a partner about the day. So too is an animal seen, snow, a sunset, color or polish of rock or scent of flowers in the breeze. These may strike you more than a climb. Wonderful. Know that. Keep that.

Writing

I’m glad you write. It gives a look into your inner world, whether what you writing goes commercial or stays in a secret journal. Don’t be concerned about criticism of your published or shared pieces. We all blab sometimes well, sometimes poorly whether in journals, on websites or just to friends. We’re human. But the key to rewarding writing is whether it plumbs deeply and honestly, or whether it glosses over the big stuff or is just for effect. It does no good for the writer or audience if the latter. Writing if done well is revelatory. It faces itself. It says to yourself who you are and even shapes who you are, whether put out on the web or kept to yourself. Strive for honest, insightful writing finding and revealing the truth of the moment.

Illusion
In the video, you say you are in complete control. You say believing you won’t fall insures you won’t. Living by certain fictions in climbing and life generally is important to going forward with verve and hope. But knowing down deep what are fictions is vital. The American Dream is one such fiction. We live by it, we laugh at it. There is no perfect and everlasting control in climbing. Sh#t happens, strange, unpredictable events having nothing to do with the firmness of our resolve, the calm of your brain, the strength of your body. Ask fellow climbers to tell you about such events and see what you make of them. Catalog and ponder them. Maybe you will decide they don’t apply to you. One of mine? Swallows flying out of a crack into my face on Enduro Corner, sending me off.

Progression
Life and time progress. Making the leap to be with a life partner and kid (if so blessed) means you become a new you. The new you consider how your actions impact your family because hurting them will hurt you and jeopardize what you prize and want to keep. You will give much angst to your life mate and kid sooner or later if you stay with your current way of climbing. So, you must choose between how you are now and how it will be with another. Don’t fool yourself into thinking no choice is needed and nothing will change. That’s a fiction which will doom you to years of unhappiness. I’ve seen it all too often.

Tom Higgins
LongAgo


Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
May 5, 2012 - 02:08am PT
I've been here before, with this particular discussion and can only add Goethe's great call,

Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power, and magic in it.

And yet there continues this peculiar notion that climbing is not at all a romantic conjecture and barefaced will to flight but rather somehow a reasoned enterprise undertaken by sober men and women for what might even appear to be rational means for rational ends. As if navigating the world safely with practical purpose. Such would be a misread of most of the history of mountaineering, several hundred years of it, and then its ancient antecedents as well. Alex is very much a part of us and is going forward on our behalf as well as his own. Climbing CAN justify its deaths, it just is so very terrible when it has to.



jstan

climber
May 5, 2012 - 04:14am PT
For the person who climbs because it is a reasoned enterprise, it seems like a reasoned enterprise.

The person who climbs because it allows fate to be defeated, goes out of his way to tempt fate.

Each observer reads the message in climbing that most appeals to them.

It is all in the head.

Both have to take care they do not land on their heads.
Michael Kennedy

Social climber
Carbondale, Colorado
May 5, 2012 - 06:29am PT
Three in a row. Thanks, Tom, Peter and John, for putting it all in perspective.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 5, 2012 - 07:02am PT
...no rope tension to work moves...

Kind of the [lost] essence of climbing in a nutshell...
PeteC

climber
May 5, 2012 - 10:52am PT
Wow, Tom Higgans advice is priceless and the best thing I've read on supertopo
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 5, 2012 - 12:02pm PT
Just an observation:

We've had plenty of discussion on Super Topo in which the community generally came down in support of never changing the run-out X rated routes (common in Tuolumne for instance)

Stuff like Solitary Confinement (5.9 no pro) and a variety of "better not Fall" route from moderate to harder.

and also in defense up putting up routes that are desperately unsafe, even applauding it as the best style

Some of the same people adamant about "Let's keep climbing dangerous. It's important that there be "you fall, you die" routes are the same folks cautioning Alex not to solo routes a number grade or two below his ability.

Sure there are differences but I'd suspect it would be more dangerous for the mortal man climber to attempt some of these x rated routes a number grade below their ability than for Alex to do what he does.

Just sayin'

Peace

Karl
WBraun

climber
May 5, 2012 - 12:10pm PT
People that are against people free soloing should mind their own fuking business.

It's not your business.

Go climb the way you want but leave these guys alone.

As far as run outs and dangerous climbs and pitches.

If you don't like it then stfu and stay off of them.

Tough sh!t people. There's always gonna be dangerous sh!t in the world.

If you can't "think for yourself" then there's no hope for you as you're just plain stupid.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 5, 2012 - 12:50pm PT
Thank you Captain Bossyface.....
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
May 5, 2012 - 12:56pm PT
Go climb the way you want

I'm blaming Werner for all the bolts added to routes I put up.
;)
Johnny K.

climber
May 5, 2012 - 12:59pm PT
Werner solos with babies on his back.
landcruiserbob

Trad climber
BIG ISLAND or Vail ; just following the sun.......
May 5, 2012 - 02:28pm PT
Most people spend their lives trying not to die, please respect the ones who are trying to live.


I may solo 3-5 times a year & I never plan it; It just happens. Your senses from those moments create lasting memories. The smell of the rock, the wind from the back, every little texture of the rock create those memories.


Don't judge him he is living it on the real & you can't ever get back from that. Endorphins are the drug of choice & you can't come back from it.


Alex is pulling off some brilliant stuff, keep on pushing it bra.


Aloha & be well


Rg


LongAgo

Trad climber
May 6, 2012 - 02:26am PT
Peter, I have saluted Honnold in my post. And, as you know, I was once in the ranks of both the romantics and stupid in many of my climbing days. You may recall my foolish but passionate upside down time on the Owl Roof in Yosemite, going solo by jumar protection of all things, and more foolishly on the Bachar Yerian in the same way, tales told on SP in the past. Bless our irrational days. Still, those days do not prevent us from both saluting Honnold’s boldness (which I do) while caring and fearing for him, and urging him to pay heed to an inner voice expressed in his writing, then offering thoughts based on our times in climbing, the good, the stupid, the inspirational. I don’t fool myself as to whether he is listening. These are my thoughts and hopes for him from a place of admiration and reflection, hardly any prescription. As to whether climbing can justify its deaths, as if climbers march toward an ever rising golden horizon, generation upon generation, and loses are worth the cause, I see no grand cause at all, only personal satisfaction and joy, and so make no such calculation.

Karl, I certainly agree there are many ways to make for death risks in climbing aside from free soloing. I certainly hope I never created X routes of the kind you refer to in Tuolumne, and tried to avoid climbing those others created. I am not of the camp touting climbing death routes for any supposed personal good. Thus, I don’t believe I am being hypocritical in laying out what I have for Alex. But, did I never do things which might have risked my death on walls, driving on mountain roads in a VW bug as if in a Porsche (and then in one), swimming too far from a beach in Hawaii or otherwise make regrettable choices? Indeed, and partly I write from the place of having been foolish myself. From that place, I tried to write with empathy rather than prescription. You are right: none of us are pure or noble or perfect in the discussion of how and why we climb. But Supertopo would be a silent place if we had to be before giving our opinions and understanding from days on the walls.

WBraun: Your are right. It is not my business. It is none of our business. It is only his business. But we can still discuss the business and send our thoughts, reflections, and hopes to him and one another on the business. These are not dictates.

Tom Higgins
LongAgo
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
May 6, 2012 - 02:54am PT
And now Tom, you are just getting splashy again. I love you when you get that way. It's pretty endearing. Really.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
bouldering
May 6, 2012 - 03:56am PT
Seems like he makes a point of not repeating Bachar, Hersey or Croft (etc soloist's) solos, so spotlight 100% on him or something (?). In OP's (text) article, A.H. eludes to Caldwell being so great, but off-handedly pussifies/ describes him doing the same route with a rope - when then A.H. solos it, and complains it wasn't even spicy enough.
Mister_Roborto

Trad climber
Queensland
May 6, 2012 - 04:12am PT
Is there a list somewhere of all the new routes that Alex has put up?
Mister_Roborto

Trad climber
Queensland
May 6, 2012 - 07:22am PT
My wish is that guys like Alex, don't end up like guys like Bachar

I never met John, but I have met a few guys who have shared times with him. As a revered statesman, indeed, it would seem mighty to grow and live with the spirit Bachar shared. If that means dying from a calculated fall (knowing the risks), then it seems such is part of the freedom some chase in life.

I am only a few years new to climbing, so I had to ask a few people who you were Coz cause you were beating others down with your "resume". Nobody I asked at the Boulder Rock Club was sure who you were, so we googled you on the compuda madooda in the lounge. You should make a Wikipedia page, you've done some awesome stuff.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
May 6, 2012 - 10:17am PT

survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station

May 5, 2012 - 09:50am PT
Thank you Captain Bossyface.....

I thought he was promoted to Major last week?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
May 6, 2012 - 10:40am PT
I thought he was promoted to Major last week?


Goat, ah you're probably right. Hell he may even Colonel Bossyface by now.

Werner's awesome, I just love to fling it back at him once in a while. He's so AUTHORITATIVE when he tells us we're stupid, or to stfu, it just gives me goosebumps and makes me want to obey...

Coz, speaking of zeniths, no wonder I realize that climbing isn't that important.
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
May 6, 2012 - 11:49am PT
LongAgo

Trad climber
May 6, 2012 - 03:24pm PT
Coz, Amen
LongAgo

Trad climber
May 6, 2012 - 03:58pm PT
Why Some Are Riled

I think what riles some seeing my post and others like it, understandably, is I go beyond thoughts, reflections and hopes to offer advice. But who am I, who are any of us, to do so, goes the argument, whether to Honnold or anyone in the game? Here’s my proposition: all of us, irrespective of our achievements or stature in the climbing community (most fast fading and illusionary in many ways) should be able to offer one another counsel. We should be able to do so based not on who we are but what relevant experience the years have brought us. I think sometimes we ignore, diminish or even ridicule experience, insight and wisdom of many who post with honest and probing points because they are not of a certain rank. The ensuing discussions then are short circuited or rancorous or both and therefore a loss to us all. The only stricture I would put on advice giving is it comes from respect and empathy and steers clear of dictating. I hope my Points for Honnold were caring, closer to prayer than commandment, but I may have missed the mark.

Why We Should Speak Up

Peter, to be ornery again, I do disagree about the scales you propose, advancement in climbing in one scale pan and death in the other. To the degree climbing advances in terms of higher, freer, faster, I believe it does so quite detached from death. I point you to the AAC Accident Reports as evidence. There, we quickly learn the great bulk of deaths and injuries beset climbers in the most haphazard and mundane of ways, and mainly befall the least rather than most experienced of us, those not working toward any great advancement, and often in the middle of something routine. Thumb though the pages and pages of the regular weekender of no particular note, sometimes distracted, sometimes miscalculating, sometimes tired. And when the more experienced are involved, they too often are not working the cutting edge when fate strikes, but going about the same mundane moments, like your descent off Washington Column about which you write, or Lynn Hill falling into a tree after some rappel or anchoring glitch, or poor Madson rappelling off the end of his rope all the way down El Capitan, or Bachar apparently finished with a moderate climb for him, maybe even descending.

So I see no war, no noble cause of winning new ground where we hum along in some dusky march, watching our comrades fall and concluding, “Ah well, the price we pay.” Further, I see that line of thinking as dangerous, for it means we say nothing, conclude nothing, advise nothing on the subject of free soloing, and even resist or diminish those who do as dictatorial, high handed, and undermining the freedom of climbing or the unity of the imagined march. I think it is important we stand with our varying opinions on free soloing, allow the debate from all corners and with varying conclusions and, yes, advice. Most likely the youngest in the game are not listening, but we then will know we have stated our case, with hope, best reason we can muster and respect, if we can tame our tempers.

In short, I see no advancement for climbing should that young, hopeful and happy soul we see in the video clips on this thread break a hold and fly to his death. To the contrary, I see climbing depressed, even set back, as we absorb the loss and some of us wonder and fear who will be next.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
May 6, 2012 - 07:28pm PT
Gee, Tom, no problems at all; you are not being ornery---but I love it when you are, it gets exciting sometimes, tusseling ‘n stuff---- but find you are only stating the obvious. The way obvious. To everyone. Where is your chew toy? I sense it has gone missing in the sofa cushions again. What the legion of solo climbers have been doing for decades and decades, and long before when all those early mountaineers basically climbed without ropes or then a bit later with ropes that couldn’t really hold falls, is clear to everyone. And what we did all through the Trad years of the sixties and seventies with our humongous runouts. We are climbing without ropes, without the benefit of ropes. There it is. The Emperor has no clothes! Fall down go boom.

Meanwhile, if you want to take up your time and that of others huffing dramatically on the sidelines, from some spot way back there, go ahead. I’ll watch and pour tea as your graying friend. Knock yourself out. It is your right, and you must not hesitate, Tom, right? I know how you love arguing, even all by yourself. It just is not news at all, in any way, how deadly these soloing ventures really are and have been like for one hell of a long time now, if you haven’t noticed. I find your dramatizations over them tardy, oddly timed, and oddly emotional and why today? You have got yourself in such a state! Alex is no different and stands in the long tradition of soloists and is comparable in many ways to our forefathers even, namely doing a load of stuff that is wildly dangerous and not for any practical pursuit or purpose. And if we at your behest scurry off distractedly to read the Accidents in North America publications and somehow manage to once again be alarmed by its reports, we are not in any way shown that there is a kind of climbing that should be stopped. Instead, perhaps all of it should be stopped or maybe none of it. The activity is crazed across the board and yet serves much more abstract purposes than I fear you have ever realized. It becomes unclear you understand this subject, frankly, even though you were a legendary figure.

But you do more than plea for Alex to stop unroping stuff and scaring you. You intend to dissuade him from that part of his climbing that is the most important and personal to him but the most worrisome, gruesome even, to you and I am sure many others. You are pleading with him to curtail his soloing hard. Your effort here is just a less well-worded version of our very own poet, Ed Drummond’s bizarre intonement of March 19, 2010.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1122068&tn=0&mr=0

You don’t mention it, but the gorilla in the living room for both you and Ed must be the upcoming first solo unroped ascent of one of the big El Cap routes. This is going to take place very soon and I am concerned that you be ready, Tom. Maybe Alex will do it or maybe one of the Euros who have been doing stuff perhaps even scarier than Alex, will do it. (Your omission of Europe’s current soloists needs looking at, too; why the hell are you leaving them out? Their stuff is terrifically scary.) Anyway, when that day arrives, you are going to blow a fuse and I want someone to be with you when it happens, you see.

I especially thrill to your inducting me into the Devil’s Army. I wasn’t sure I could still qualify, what with my prosthetic knee and advancing age. Having successfully avoided the Draft forty-two years ago, toward the end of my life I find myself nonetheless conscripted, “humming along in some dusky march, watching (my) comrades fall and concluding, ‘Ah well, the price we pay’”. You leave it out, but I am wondering what melody we will be humming, especially since “Night on a Bald Mountain” is terrifically hard for beginners and wonder too, if you will be with me? You ascribe to my position the notion that I think climbing’s “golden path” is lit by the funeral pyres of the fallen. Thank you, as it is much easier to have others speak for me than to bother with the words and ideas myself. And true, my first thought of course when Bachar, Madsen, Baldwin, Hersey, Chris Chen, Diana Hunter et al left us was simply to thrill to all these splendid quantum leaps in our art. It was like Christmas every time! Got to love a vampiric theory of climbing progression, it offers up so much pub-side.

No, if we miss any of our soloists--- and there are a ton of them--- it would be just awful. Really awful. And yes, any deaths in climbing, soloists included, set us ALL back. The whole art back, and badly. No question and certainly not a new point either. It is in the very heart of how and why we climb that we can lose our lives or those of loved or admired ones, all in an absurd twinkling and all for no practical reason, just art, just climbing. It is such a basic feature of our activity that to continually wring our hands about it, especially without any current trigger to work from, like fresh news of a gruesome solo death today, seems sensationalistic to me and to miss the core ideas here, especially since I am in lock-step in the Devil’s army, on the golden path over the cliff.
skywalker

climber
May 7, 2012 - 12:00am PT
Did you ever read Voltaire's "Candide"?
He says live life at Benny Hill freak out speed
Not a quote of what he wrote but a paraphrase
Make it up as you go Keyser Soze
Highlights yes but don't underline 'em
Just live for N.O.W. like Gloria Steinem
Life is like Marion Barry
It's not all that it's cracked up to be
Like Fred Sanford when the big one comes
Find the meaning of life is there is none
It's twenty-four hours when you call it a day
Be Frank and say "I Did It My Way"
Don't give a flying nun no don't give a Gidget
Just have more fun than a well-oiled midget
If life were picture perfect you could frame it
But the world is a diaper so let someone else change it

Life is an aimless drive that ya take alone
Might as well enjoy the ride, take the long way home

May I have your attention please?
May I have your attention please?

All born equal unless you're Canadian
[ From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/b/bloodhound-gang-lyrics/take-the-long-way-home-lyrics.html ]
Then halfway through decay like Uranium
You define what's death-defying
Get the most out of life or at the least die trying
Are you Evil Knievel jumping a train?
Or running with scissors like Frasier Crane?
Have really good times doing really bad things
'Cause the show ain't over 'til the fat lady sings
Like Elton John with his candle in the wind
It's hard to blow out a flame as big as him
But we've all got to Wang Chung with the Grim Reaper
Whether you're Einstein whether you're Beaker
Death is certain so it's definitely worth flirtin'
Don't expect a bright light no just curtains
Life is like a penis most people don't know it
But most people suck so they usually blow it

Life is an aimless drive that ya take alone
Might as well enjoy the ride take the long way home

Life is an aimless drive that ya take alone
Might as well enjoy the ride take the long way home

That's enough!
I said that's enough!
nature

climber
CO
May 7, 2012 - 12:06am PT
on one hand I admire and appreciate what coz stated - life is precious. remember that.

on another, I admire what Werner has to say. Go mind your own f*#king business.

what will happen will happen.

oh the drama.....
skywalker

climber
May 7, 2012 - 12:30am PT
Just sayin again

But we've all got to Wang Chung with the Grim Reaper
Whether you're Einstein whether you're Beaker
Death is certain so it's definitely worth flirtin'
Don't expect a bright light no just curtains
Life is like a penis most people don't know it
But most people suck so they usually blow it

Yes mind your own business!
LongAgo

Trad climber
May 8, 2012 - 01:00am PT
Sparing Going Sour Fast

O Peter, fun sparing, but I think it’s time to do it over wine face to face. The discussion is getting edgy if not snarky between two old warhorses and the discussion points now are well-worn for anyone interested in the substance. I promise to bring by chew toy so not to get too overwrought, but from the tone of your post, you need bring yours too. I find it very far from “pouring tea” as you describing yourself sitting back so relaxed as I go on.

Lordy, I’m hardly assigning you to the “Devil’s Army” by taking you on for claiming: “climbing CAN justify its deaths.” I would not call it a charge from the leader of the Devil’s Army, but the phrase goes much farther than simply noting the long line of soloists and associated hang wringing, as your last post does. Your assertion rationalizes the consequences. Look again: you did write those words. Did you really think no one would call you on them?

There is so much tangential in you post to the issue at hand. Maybe I should worry about you as much as you claim to be worried about me. What is this stuff about me “huffing dramatically from the sidelines,” “taking my time and that of others.” Is there some regulation requiring time consuming reading of Supertopo, especially the bantering of fogies? And is it just my posts which take valuable reading time or yours too? As for my own time, do I really need to state the obvious: that’s my business? And “sidelines?” I couldn’t agree more I am a sideline, if by that you mean an occasional versus frequent voice on Supertopo. Still, I think I still can think, have some experiences to offer and … O, hell, fill in the blanks. Of course, if by “sideline” you mean a long ago (my very AKA) as in not current trend setter in climbing, well there’s a description befitting both of us. So what? Then there’s “worry” about me, awaiting my “blowing a fuse” and thinking perhaps I’ve lost it, claiming you doubt I “understand the subject.” My writing “oddly” timed (as if I’m “sensationalizing” the subject somehow, as you find), and “oddly” emotional? What are you implying, dementia? Your most incredible rabbit-out-of-the hat is the claim I’m telling Alex to stop like some worried parent, not only another personalized diversion from the topic but simply false. You claim I “plea for Alex to stop unroping stuff and scaring you.” I never do any such thing. Such a clear F in debate 1A. Now I’m the worried one.

Peter, you have fallen prey a very old, transparent, obfuscating tactic in debate: knock the opponent, raise suspicions about his/her veracity, put words in their mouth, all to stay off topic. Poor readers have to be thinking, stop making this about Higgins. Really, look at the thread topic – Honnold, free soling. You do finally get onto the subject, but by the most obvious and dismissive hand waving: climbing is dangerous and risky, soling is simply another part of climbing, a big part always has been, deaths of climbers are equal, get over it, it’s all “way obvious;” in fact, implicitly, shut up.

The Point(s)

So let’s go back to the discussion itself and get rid of the smoke. Just what has been said and where are we? We have a thread on Alex Honnold. We have a glimpse of him and his reflections on soling in some interesting bits of his writing. We have a dramatic U-Tube video of him on the subject climb, including the moment he seems to hesitate, up and down, at or near the crux. No “sensationalizing” by Higgins here. We’re not watching a European soloist. We’re not examining the history of soling or climbing across time. We’re watching and listening to him, having our gut reactions and writing. That’s the context.

What’s being said? Some are saying God I wouldn’t let my kid do this. Others are saying forget it. It’s part of the climbing game. We all take risks and took risks of one degree or another. Others are saying some voices in the debate are hypocritical. Others are saying it doesn’t matter what we think it’s up to him. Others are warning no matter what we say don’t prescribe for him or anyone.

What did I say? Yup, your choice, Alex. We’re humbled watching you. Really hope to God you don’t fall. Stay tuned to the inner voice. You seem to be onto what fulfills beyond the soling. Grab that tight. Keep writing, honestly, to the bone. It helps clarify what you want. Watch out for illusions about control. Sh#t happens. Ponder some big life choices as you go. There are tradeoffs between soloing and family. What didn’t I say? I did not say stop it. How foolish that would be. I have no claim on him. None of us do.

The Disagreement

Now, what’s the disagreement on free soling between you and me? You have claimed deaths there are like deaths in all of climbing, expected part of the game at the “very heart of how and why we climb that we can lose our lives or those of loved or admired ones.” I agree all climbing has risk, but I think free-soling is especially risky. I believe it is too simple to put all climbing risks in one can and call them the same. I think doing so denies the obvious: free soling means you can’t make a mistake nor can you recover should nature pull a fast one and put a bird in your face, a broken hold in your hand. All obvious points you will note, but needing to be said loud and clear against the notion of one can for all risks.

Now here’s where things get tenser. You and I think only you (correct me) have claimed something, dare I use the word, odd: “Alex is very much a part of us and is going forward on our behalf as well as his own. Climbing CAN justify its deaths.” Now that got my blood up. I argued (with reference to AAC climbing injury and death records) that most injuries and deaths are NOT from climbing at the frontiers of difficulty, which is key to your point, not a diversion as you call it. If great volumes of deaths were at those frontiers, we would have a point to discuss about those deaths as the costs of “going forward,” but nope. Your premise folds.

Further, I hope and trust Alex does not climb in any sense “on our behalf” in his “going forward” especially if the “forward” is more and more free soling at the highest free climbing standards. Others will feel challenged to go the same path and then we may have to discuss a whole new set of AAC data on solo climbing deaths, and debate your proposition about what is worth what in the game. In that debate, you know where I stand: climbing deaths cannot be justified against any advancement, only regretted.

The End

Peter, I will let you have the last punch if you want it. I won’t respond if you choose to do so. I suggest we go off thread. We’ve made our points and probably worn out those already fatigued readers trying to finish their required reading.

Dynamic

Trad climber
CA
May 15, 2012 - 11:43am PT
Be safe Alex. I didn't think that route was trivial, but the approach certainly was. Maybe you need a trip to the Himalayas.
donnski

Mountain climber
Nanoose Bay, BC
May 15, 2012 - 11:54am PT
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing.
Cheldric

Sport climber
Colorado Springs
May 15, 2012 - 01:37pm PT
"I think it was the first time I've taken my pants off while soloing." Does this mean we won't be seeing this one on Nat Geo?? ;-) Thanks for the trip report!
Alpinista55

Mountain climber
Portland, OR
May 15, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
Wow, a lot of really smart writing on this thread. Almost as humbling as Alex's climbing.

Once a friend and I climbed a peak in the Washington Cascades. We descended from the summit to a small hanging meadow, stripped naked and were napping in the sun with our feet dangling in a brook. I woke from the nap and started admiring a beautiful granite ridge that walled in one side of the meadow. Some uncounted moments later I found myself several hundred feet above the ground, still nude, balancing barefoot up the knife-edged ridge to the summit.

I've done a big climb or two, climbs that "meant something", I suppose. But that silly happy 5.9 romp above the meadow is my most treasured climbing memory. So I GET what Alex means when he talks about the freedom he feels when climbing cordless. Not for a moment do I equate my little solo with what Alex does, but I think I felt a bit of what he feels... I was in total control, I knew I wouldn't fall, so I didn't. I was climbing for the pure joy of the vertical movement.

All that said, I never felt driven to do more soloing. In fact, the drive left me that day long ago, sitting bare-assed on the top of the ridge, wondering how the f*#k I was going to get down.

Jk

PS: wow, just noticed how ST automatically bleeps your cuss words!
ericz

climber
Ogden, UT
May 15, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
Ho Ho Ho !!! There is something wonderfully ironic about this,... a grand and varied commentary on social media from our sedentary ( at present ) positions,... on what is one of the most focused physical actions done individually. Beautiful !!!! This seems a good place for some Nietzsche; " Life wants to climb, and to overcome itself climbing. " Happy trails !!!!.....
Will Eccleston

Trad climber
Atlanta, GA
May 15, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
For anyone saying free soloists should stop doing what they're doing, do you think people should stop alpine climbing as well? I'd bet everything I own that the number of deaths-per-outing in alpine climbing is astronomically higher than free soloing. I have no problem with anyone dying free soloing, or dying doing anything that's known to be dangerous. It does bother me just a little bit to know that anyone might be deluding themselves that death is not a distinct possibility. But if you free solo yourself to death, or alpine climb, or base jump, or wingsuit, or merely take a bad leader fall trad climbing and die, assuming you've weighed the risk of your death and the impact it would have on the people around you, then fine, go for it.
Huecool

climber
Tucson, AZ
May 16, 2012 - 10:31am PT
Nice report, pls write more. We are all always searching, or should be. I for one do not fear my death, rather I fear not living the way my will guides me.
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
May 17, 2012 - 02:54pm PT
Just thought I'd revive this with a recent musing.

People seem to go on and on ad nauseum about Honnold and his soloing feats and how dangerous it is, and how he needs to step back from the edge.

I recently watched the "Reel Rock Tour 2011" segment on speed climbing the Nose. That sh#t seems WAY more dangerous than ANY of Honnold's soloing feats. Even Alex Huber said that its way too dangerous to keep pushing for faster times. ALEX HUBER: the guy who soloed Kommunist (5.14a).


But we don't get into these long, drawn out discussions, replete with philosophical offerings, when Hans is gearing up to retake the record. I just don't get it.

Good on Honnold for following his heart, wherever that may take him. Two roads diverged in a yellow wood.....and he took the one less traveled...
harihari

Trad climber
Squampton
May 17, 2012 - 06:03pm PT
The real question here is, why are people so afraid of death?

I mean, obviously, nobody wants to die painfully, and if you have a family you gotta live your life so that you can take care of them (and this might preclude at-limit free-soloing).

But Honnold is young and unencumbered, I don't think he's married, and I know he doesn't have kids. So if he falls and dies, well, how awesome would it be to have lived a life that was not filled with compromises, one where one's death was as close to "chosen" as possible?

If the guy falls off of his most extreme project, I'm willing to bet he'll have a bit of "oh f**k!" going through his mind in those last few seconds before he splats, but I also bet he'll have precious few regrets.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2012 - 06:06pm PT
Hopefully Alex isn't getting pumped off of solo projects.
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
May 18, 2012 - 12:02am PT
I would think anyone falling to his death could have only the following thoughts: (1) I'm about to die; (2) it doesn't matter in the slightest.
zBrown

Ice climber
Chula Vista, CA
May 18, 2012 - 12:51am PT
Vasovagal syncope:

Among people with vasovagal episodes, the episodes are typically recurrent, usually happening when the person is exposed to a specific trigger. Prior to losing consciousness, the individual frequently experiences a prodrome of symptoms such as lightheadedness, nausea, the feeling of being extremely hot (accompanied by sweating), ringing in the ears (tinnitus), uncomfortable feeling in the heart, fuzzy thoughts, a slight inability to speak/form words (sometimes combined with mild stuttering), weakness and visual disturbances such as lights seeming too bright, fuzzy or tunnel vision, and sometimes a feeling of nervousness can occur as well. These last for at least a few seconds before consciousness is lost (if it is lost), which typically happens when the person is sitting up or standing. When sufferers pass out, they fall down (unless this is impeded); and when in this position, effective blood flow to the brain is immediately restored, allowing the person to wake up. Short of fainting a person may experience an almost indescribable weak and tired feeling resulting from a lack of oxygen to the brain due to a sudden drop in blood pressure. Taber's Cyclopedic Medical Dictionary[3] describes this as the "feeling of impending death" caused by expansion of the aorta, drawing blood from the head and upper body.

mariaji

Social climber
Tucson, AZ
May 29, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
Pura vida Alex! Cuidate mucho chamaco lindo!
Messages 1 - 144 of total 144 in this topic
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta