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Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 24, 2012 - 10:16pm PT
look out, Anders is on the war path


Just kidding man! I actually agree that it ought to be ideally placed between Gonzales creek and the Papoose. But that would double their construction costs and their roadside appeal would be deminished. I know that neither here nor there but it could be a project killer.

I think gregs idea of sticking it in Brittannia is pretty good, but that's up to Brittannia to spearhead that
Tricouni

Mountain climber
Vancouver
Mar 24, 2012 - 10:20pm PT
I would have no real problem with a gondola if it didn't infringe on the parks. Goat Ridge from Britannia would be fine with me; the Britannia Creek drainage is totally screwed up as it is. The current proposal is not acceptable to me; I'm opposed to anything motorized that infringes on the parks.

I never knew the story of the gravel pit. Very disappointing.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 24, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
Just so that it's very clear, I'm not opposed to a tourist gondola at an appropriate location in the Squamish area. I am unalterably opposed to such developments in, beside or in the near vicinity of Stawamus Chief and Shannon Falls Provincial Parks. Neither is an appropriate location. That's regardless of whether or not a route to Goat Ridge is feasible.

In the interests of transparency, I ask anyone who posts to this thread who has a personal or business connection to Ground Effects [Sea to Sky Gondola Corp.] or its principals, or indeed any of the other parties, to state it.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Mar 24, 2012 - 10:27pm PT
The 20m clear cut through the adjoining parks to accommodate the tram is a recent wonder in disclosure.

Bait and switch isn't a sole domain of any one country. This being a private enterprise, I think it's going to die slowly and excruciatingly for the proponents. Squamish has always had a short window of nice conditions that schemes like this might flourish in.

It took 21 years for a ski resort proposal near Invermere to get the go ahead in BC due to environmental issues (Grizzly Bears picking off skiers) and the still unresolved First Nations of the area freedom to be unextinguished concerning treaty capitulation to what 's on offer.

Injuns and Grizzly Bears are potent political allies in the Koots. Bad math on the coast with weather tangents makes me think this is an already dead proposal.

I do think a cool restaurant/bar with a great patio on top of the Malamute was a lost opportunity that the Squamish Band did capitalized on with the casino at the North end of the Chief.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Mar 24, 2012 - 10:51pm PT
I'm not sure why the present developers didn't look at Goat Ridge as an option. More expensive, yeah ( I'm taking Bruce K's word for it ) but with many more possibilities.

The area the proposal is for at the present time blows dead goats. I'm not sure of The View from up there.....seems to me yer gonna get a good look at a whole lotta second growth loggin' slash. Isn't Goat Ridge higher and with more views to the south?

I"m not against the idea of a tourist tram but I wouldn't invest in this Dung Heap.

And NO to development in any of our parks. This land is simply too hard won.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 24, 2012 - 11:45pm PT
Jim, I hope that you're right about the proposal fizzling, but wouldn't want to take any chances. It has been allowed to develop some momentum, and there may be agendas at work that we don't know about. It'd been nagging me for a while, and I finally decided to contribute to the debate. It's the least I could do. I don't know if I could face myself in the mirror if I didn't at least try.

Here's a photo of the gravel pit from the highway, taken early in 2005, after TLC acquired the land. Shannon Falls to the right, the Chief just off photo to the left.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#242136
I should be in Squamish tomorrow, and will try to get more photos.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 24, 2012 - 11:58pm PT
OK, here's more photos of the gravel pit, looking toward the Chief. also from early 2005. The edge of the campground, and the trail, are in the forest just back from the top of the berm, and to the right. The trail goes up Olesen Creek, the 'gash'.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#242138
photo not found
Missing photo ID#242139
I never did figure out why the Squamish Adventure Centre wasn't built there - it would have been a perfect location.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:04am PT
and there may be agendas at work that we don't know about.

Such as?

I can see someone wanting to build a tram up that hill, presumably with a restaurant/bar at the top, because they think tourists will swarm up the thing and make them rich. Probably a dumb idea and they'll go broke, but it's no stretch to think that someone would believe it was a great idea. But what kind of hidden agenda might they have that would be using the tram as a front?
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:13am PT
Government agendas. Developers, for example from Whistler, have been known to be well-connected to the provincial government. Perhaps the government, which is looking rather shaky (election next spring) thinks it's "..be nice to our developer friends.." month.

There may be no shortage of developers who'd like to take more land out of Garibaldi Park, and would welcome a precedent at Squamish.

(Edited, at Jim's suggestion.)
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:18am PT
Governments, especially local ones, are always friendly to developers. That's hardly a "hidden agenda". That's just politics as usual.

I thought you were going to go all Klimmer on us and start talking about some Black Ops listening post to pick up messages from aliens. Or that the Lizard People were getting concerned about their Overlord Of Earth going crazy and trying to have a heart installed in his body, and building a sanctuary to move him to. But all you've got is developers greasing a few palms. Lame.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:28am PT
The FMCBC (Federation of Mountaineering Clubs,British Columbia) were a group that thought they could ride in on white ponies from Vancouver and prescribe the utopian path forward to the little people who held property in the Smoke Bluffs. That went well...

If you want to have your voice be an influence,pay attention to the people who live there.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 25, 2012 - 01:17am PT
I thought you were going to go all Klimmer on us and start talking about some Black Ops listening post to pick up messages from aliens. Or that the Lizard People were getting concerned about their Overlord Of Earth going crazy and trying to have a heart installed in his body, and building a sanctuary to move him to. But all you've got is developers greasing a few palms.


Are you suggesting that this isn't the case????
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 25, 2012 - 02:04am PT
Thanks, Jim - a good point. IIRC, Squamish Council has voted in favour of the proposal, as has the chamber of commerce. I don't know what support the proposal has generally in Squamish - I guess we'll see. But it's an important piece of the puzzle.

I have no idea what Bruce and Ghost are talking about.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
Mar 25, 2012 - 10:45am PT
Thanks MH. What ever happened with my vote for you for MEC?
ArmandoWyo

climber
Wyoming
Mar 25, 2012 - 11:40am PT
Anders,
What a tragic story - or dare I say, a monumental f**k up. Deja vu all over again for you folks in BC.
And for you personally, it must hit home and sting, not just geographically but psychologically and emotionally.
First, as access activists, you must mount another campaign to stop almost the same gondola, in same place, in fact, from the same piece of land that was bought following the awesome previous campaign. Recall that a decade ago, I told you that in a wry way a threatened gondola up the Chief was gift to BC climbers. I could not imagine anything better to unify locals and beat down the usual put down that organizing climbers was like herding cats. And you folks took full advantage and did a great job to stop the gondola - and seemingly stopped it for good by buying the land.
And as a lawyer, you need to do it again because of breathtakingly bad lawyering! Drafting a covenant, following a massive campaign and fundraising to prevent a gondola, and then limiting it to prohibit only a gondola that goes up face of the Chief or ends in the parks. Kind of invites a gondola that doesnít go up face or end in parks doesnít it? If the covenant had been written by a non-lawyer, donít you think it was have just said, No Gondola! Then maybe a good lawyer would add, or any other aerial conveyance.
Of course, this isnít just about you, but I share your pain brother.
Armando
hamish f

Social climber
squamish
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:01pm PT
I think they should grab ten percent of the flow from shannon falls and make the hydro needed to run the gondola. The pipe could be eight inch black plastic, so it wouldn't even be visible, and the power building at the base could be set up for the public to check out all the makings of electricity. It could be the first "green" gondola. That ten percent of the flow would enter back into the creek at the bottom, after spinning the generator, and all would be as normal.
During times of heavy (water) flow and low gondola use, the excess juice could be sold to B.C. Hydro. And then during times of extremely low flow, power can be bought back from Hydro to subsidise the operation. It will probably balance out and all those plastic cabins can climb up the mountain, happily knowing they're being propelled by the water falling down the same mountainside.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:05pm PT
ya know i think somebody should do a study, maybe a thesis subject.

See how opposition to the project is proportional to the distance one lives away from the subject, and vice versa.

Just a crazy idea, but maybe there's something to it
Scrubber

climber
Straight outta Squampton
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
I'm just playing devil's advocate for a moment so don't slay me too fiercely.

I'm a little confused as to why this opposition to the proposal is being brought up now, instead of a year ago when the proponent had multiple open-houses with the public and at least appeared interested in garnering public opinion as to it's suitability and exact route. Much to their surprise, the folks who turned up were far more concerned that it take the route of least visibility from the Chief Backside trail, but not concerned at all about it's visibility from the downtown and Nexan beach areas.

I admit, that while I was pretty neutral on the proposal before, I had no idea about the strip of land having to be removed from the park. This is not cool. I'm really not sure why this has to happen at all. Could the class designation of that strip of BC Parks land not just be changed? I think the proposal calls for one or two towers to be installed within the park land, plus the clearing of the strip of land for laying the tow cable. This area of the park sees very little public use due to the challenging topography. It therefore probably has significant wildlife value.

I personally am planning on looking deeper into the "removing of the strip of land from the park" before I join any sides. Thanks to those above for providing additional information on this proposal.

Kris
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:08pm PT
hey maybe it could be directly water powered... mechanically as opposed to electric?

you know, a clothes line with a bunch of buckets running down the creek driving the other line of buckets going up the hill.

and how about a water slide?
hamish f

Social climber
squamish
Mar 25, 2012 - 12:23pm PT
Ya, I'm with the Scrubber.... where were all you Moaners a year ago?
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