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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Mar 25, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
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Mike, my statement was not meant as any slight on your books. I'm sure they're great and you put a lot of love into them. I was only commenting on the "ROI" statement by Bruce and the ever-increasing price of making guidebooks.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Mar 26, 2012 - 12:43am PT
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__speaking of self published, Bruce, I saw your book in the shop, but it looks fatter than it used to be. Which version was that I saw?
What new stuff is in it?__
Same old book Munge. Just did another print run to meet pending orders and the printer must have used some other fatter kind of paper. Makes it look like there's more. Same old. Same old.
There's some more new TR routes for Castle listed in Chris Summit's Bay Area Top Ropes (SuperTopo). Maybe 10-15 more out between the Hostess and Last Temptation Cliff along the trail to Goat Rock.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Mar 26, 2012 - 02:39am PT
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Wow, a little sensitive are we? No ones knocking ya, or your efforts.
It's just the going rate for a 24 dollar guidebook these days is at least 1/2in worth of info and your guides look to be about as thin as a Trader Joe's Fearless Flyer advertisement.
Maybe the content contained in your guides will be well worth it? How the hell do I know? Come on, sell this thing! What's in it. 70 bucks is alot of money in this Obomoconomy.
Until then, fill out this form to place a complaint;)
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jaaan
Trad climber
Chamonix, France
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Mar 26, 2012 - 05:54am PT
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Mike, the guys jumping you from behind their laptops are out of order. Don't lose any sleep over them - ignore them. Please remember to email my wife Hilary about posting to Europe... Thanks!
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mooch
Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
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Mar 26, 2012 - 08:49am PT
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What did you spend on editing? Materials? And what's the story behind Captain/Feather?
Hey Dan.....Shuteye is fabulous! Best to hit the place in the winter with loads of snow. Bring your Arctic Cat! Not a soul around if you want to build your own guidebook.
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kc
Trad climber
the cats
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Mar 26, 2012 - 10:38am PT
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It is not unusual to want to know what you are getting for your money. I don't think anyone is knocking your guidebooks, they just want to see an example of what's in there and maybe an idea of what areas each covers. If I saw your books in the store, I would want to look in them before buying. If they were shrinkwrapped or something, I would pass.
Relax and open the vault a little. I'm sure you will have many takers on this site, myself included.
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Loomis
climber
Peklo Vole!
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Mar 26, 2012 - 11:59am PT
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I would like to review the Courtright guide, see if the info is correct, especially the info on "Trapper Dome".
If the info from the old guidebook has been used, it will have many mistakes.
I have the original topo of the routes on "Trapper Dome" dating all the way back to 1984. I would like to see how our notes compare, historically and ratings.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Mar 26, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
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Mike A.: Any guidebook is always a work-in-progress, subject to corrections, revisions and upgrades. Once you've got the information out there, later authors and editors can always amend and add to it with new information. The point is that you've taken a stab at Courtright et alia and that puts you in the batter's cage and makes you a target. Just keep on doing what you're doing and it'll all come out in the wash someday. There just isn't any perfection in this world no way, no how. If someone comes along later with infinite deep pockets and infinite time on their hands, they'll be able to surpass your efforts and create an Encyclopaedia Britannica-style guidebook that'll cost at least $55 bucks per volume. But I suspect there'll never be enough bucks in out-of-the-way areas to warrant that kind of perfectionist treatment, but we'll have to await the recreation and leisure time Veblen economy for that to happen. Not this week!
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mooch
Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
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Mar 26, 2012 - 04:56pm PT
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The point is that you've taken a stab at Courtright et alia and that puts you in the batter's cage and makes you a target
....especially if you have a bunch of the FAist chiming in right now who contributed to all of these areas. Seems like a few of them haven't been contacted for correct info, eh Scott?....er, Nate?......er, Dan?.....er, Jeff.....er......
Batter up!
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 26, 2012 - 06:18pm PT
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Mike... Hi, I'll buy one- if it's more than a rehash of the old one.
Just answer these Qs for me:
What dome, FA ist and rating is "Black Satin Slips"?
and "Doughballs on a rampage"
"By Jupiter there are rings around uranius"
"Eve of distruction"
easy enuf questions I figure.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Mar 26, 2012 - 06:57pm PT
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That's easy: Just collect the new info from the FAers and include it in a subsequent revised edition of the Mike A. guide. The loose leaf ring spiral format is easy to add new pages to. You got to start somewhere, don't you? If Mike A's in the batter's cage, why not funnel all the new Courtright, Fresno Dome, Shuteye Ridge info to him and let him update his guide accordingly? Or is there another guidebook to these areas in progress elsewhere? No idea.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 27, 2012 - 01:20pm PT
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Hi all...... just want to bump this. Mike thanks for working on a new guide. The old one for Courtwright is sooooo outdated.
But before I send you $$$$$$$$$ I do need to know how indepth your research is.
In the last few years we have been swamped by inaccurate, poorly researched guides.
So if you want folks to give you $$$$$ come on and sell the darn thing.
Guy Keesee
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Mar 27, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
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Orgasm Addict, on Trapper......Hey that's a John Barbella route right. I know Dwight Kroll is hard at work on the Courtrite guide, another one. Walking the guidebook author trail is a fine line. To be good you have to be able to get to know all climbers of an area and make friends. Getting info from them directly gives your book respect. Gleaning info can be a roll of the dice. Plus,of course, doing as many routes yourself before you do a guide helps too and makes you more of an expert to the area. Anyone can do a guidebook though and hopefully the proper folks who did the FA's will get the credit they deserve.
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doughnutnational
Gym climber
its nice here in the spring
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Mar 27, 2012 - 01:40pm PT
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I think it's a Loomis route. I dont think Mike a is attempting to produce a comprehensive guide to any of the areas. So contacting tons of first ascencionist is not needed. Dwight Kroll is working on a comprhensive guide to Courtright and would be appreciative to talk to anyone withv route knowledge in the area.
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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Mar 27, 2012 - 02:03pm PT
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Bruce - the answer to your last question is yes. 3 guides that most know about already in the works.
Here is the link started by Dwight for the Courtright guide:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1568147/New-Courtright-Guide-in-the-Works
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with Mike's enthusiasm and shared adoration for these magical places. He's a local, if ever there was one.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 27, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
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I believe S. Loomas did the first.
And that's the point.... anybody can walk around and do the climbs and draw topos.
But to really make a quality GB one must get the history right.
I have only done a few FAs at Cortwright so I don't really count because one of my SUBMEN can give the proper info.
The climbs I was asking Mike A. about are major climbs, newer than the old book, but all ca
n be found in other references and if they are not in this newest, latest most up to date book, then how valuable can this book really be?
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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Mar 27, 2012 - 03:34pm PT
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Bruce - the answer to your last question is yes. 3 guides that most know about already in the works.
Sounds like a lot of people are attacking the area from several different angles at once. Might be nice if one local who's at least climbed everything there [hah!] would take on the job of funneling all that route info into one guide, to talk fancy, a meta-guide that would reconcile and synthesize all the route and historical information in one place. A necessary first step would be for some brave sole/soul to write a comprehensive [hah!] history of the place that would give a balanced [hah!] timeline of who, what, when, where, how? Then, get a lot of mud and venom thrown and spit on you and then revise, revise, revise. Sounds like a god-dang Ph.D. diss with a really mean committee of supervising profs!
Will a local crag historian please stand up and take the heat prior to publishing a guide? Batter up! I realize too that there are many people who just don't want a guide to the area too. It sure sounds like it's gonna take eons before there's a definitive guide coming out.
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crazy horse
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Mar 27, 2012 - 08:13pm PT
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The idea of a guide that covers everything from the kings river to the san joaquin so Wawona dome through the balls, shuteye, Shaver, dinkey dome, bald mountain courtwrite, Patterson bluffs down to tehipite dome has been thrown around in the past within a few discussions of the fresno folks, but never materialized. Currently though yes Courtwrite with some nearby areas thrown in as well as all of shuteye is in production. Courtwrite is a ways off, Shuteye will be out fairly soon.
Thanks mike for all the hard work you've put into your guides. it's a selfless act that often goes unnoticed and unappreciated. Some of my original trips to shuteye and hawk dome were done with old topos posted on totalclimbingonline.com. Thanks!!
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mooch
Trad climber
Old Climbers' Home (Adopted)
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Mar 28, 2012 - 02:48pm PT
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I'm with Guyzo....comprehensive doesn't mean 'cut and paste'. Work the details like history, updates (ie new FA's since the last guide was out, access, and pro). As a bonus, add in the FAist and dates.....which I find helpful these days in case I need to research or track down the FAist). There are folks out there that don't take the time to research an area for previous activity and the history behind it. But that's a different topic altogether..... ; )
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Mar 28, 2012 - 03:14pm PT
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Maybe the first Ascentists should get royalties just like musicians. You don't see anybody just coming out and releasing a Beatles album. Really,I know it gets crazy but whats the difference?
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