Cerro Torre, A Mountain Consecrated - The Resurrection of th

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Kimbo

Trad climber

seattle

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:02pm PT

In fact, Maestri went back to Patagonia because he was enraged that people would doubt his claimed (but now disproven) earlier ascent, and drilled that line as a way of telling the entire climbing world to f*#k off. It was a deliberate insult, made by a man now generally agreed to have lied about his earlier climb.

hmmm not sure you or anybody is in a position to know exactly what maestri's motivations were.

ALPINEMAN

Trad climber

bogota

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:05pm PT

Maestri was a genius not to go on top in 1970, but this cannot understand nerds

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:07pm PT

hmmm not sure you or anybody is in a position to know exactly what maestri's motivations were.

To some extent that is true. But he left a lot clues lying about that would make one believe the his prime motive was "I'll show those as#@&%es!"

Given his history of bold, cutting-edge climbing, and his obvious anger at the doubters, it's difficult to believe he thought that hauling a gas-powered compressor up CT to bolt his way to the top (or almost to the top) was the next logical step in alpinism.

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:09pm PT

this cannot understand nerds

Exactly! We agree. :)

Who can understand these.

When we respond with these.

And yet secretly know these are the most correct.

Snorky

Trad climber

Carbondale, CO

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:10pm PT

fòradaiball,

do better.

P.S. The rain is token mouse, so back up house nighttime in the your hair.

Kimbo

Trad climber

seattle

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:13pm PT

To some extent that is true. But he left a lot clues lying about that would make one believe the his prime motive was "I'll show those as#@&%es!"

yes, one might surmise that, but i really believe that whatever one's predilection is, that's the way one will interpret the limited data. or so it seems to be....

remember that you are trying to justify the (impulsive) removal of these bolts, based on your personal interpretation of maestri's motives- a rather tenuous approach i think.

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:20pm PT

So by the way is your interpretation of Kruk & Kennedy's motivations.

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:22pm PT

rolo seems like a very standup guy and definiteyl a world class climber....but why didnt he remove the bolts himself? i dont get it...

if you are going to [preach to everyone about something that is meaningless when compared to action....

Gene

climber

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:23pm PT

If Maestri and Egger had climbed Cerro Torre in 1959 in the purest of style, why would Maestri return to Cerro Torre and use piston-driven bolts in 1970, stop a pitch short of the summit mushrooms, and leave the compressor on the mountain?

ALPINEMAN

Trad climber

bogota

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:25pm PT

Gene Gnocchi wrote:

If Maestri and Egger had climbed Cerro Torre in 1959 in the purest of style, why would Maestri need to return to Cerro Torre and use piston-driven bolts in 1970, stop a pitch short of the summit mushrooms, and leave the compressor on the mountain?

It is difficult to understand for a mentality so obtuse as your American

oh yeah!

Kimbo

Trad climber

seattle

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:27pm PT

So by the way is your interpretation of Kruk & Kennedy's motivations.

remind me what i said about their motivations? i honestly can't recall.

but: to me their motivations matter little, since i have been basing my opinion more or less on the following:

1. the length that the route had been there;

2. the number of people who enjoyed the route (and were perhaps enroute to do it);

3. the fact that the route in no way served as a precedent for similar approaches;

4. the overwhelming support for keeping the route intact at the only meeting anyone bothered to organize;

5. the fact that two kids from north america decided, by themselves (spontaneously?), to remove the route.

i know i can come up with more list items, but i think that's a fair representation of my feelings at this point....

ALPINEMAN

Trad climber

bogota

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:27pm PT

yes, exactly

Kimbo

Trad climber

seattle

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:30pm PT

rolo seems like a very standup guy and definiteyl a world class climber....but why didnt he remove the bolts himself? i dont get it...

i asked him this in an earlier post (along with some other questions) and i hope he responds. i am very curious as to his reasoning, since he seems to feel so very strongly about the bolts.

Ghost

climber

A long way from where I started

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:33pm PT

remember that you are trying to justify the (impulsive) removal of these bolts, based on your personal interpretation of maestri's motives- a rather tenuous approach i think.

No, I'm not trying to justify the removal of those bolts. It doesn't bother me that the two climbers took some of them out, but saying that I am happy about it does not justify it.

My concern is only to illuminate the fact that the Compressor Route is fundamentally different from something like the Grand Wall at Squamish -- which many people are bringing up as another example of overbolting. That climb was put up using far more bolts than anyone would put in today, but they were not put in as a deliberate slap in the face to the climbing world.

I'm firmly in the Largo/Dingus camp on this one. That is, trying to "justify" the removal is a waste of time. Some climbers are pleased at what happened, some are outraged. But justify? Nope. Not me.

philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Jan 24, 2012 - 05:33pm PT

Hawkeye, Rolo has been pretty occupied with some really remarkable significant new routes. You know, real climbs.

ALPINEMAN, try US please.
Enlighten our Obtuse American Mentality