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BlackSpider
Ice climber
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Jan 24, 2012 - 02:10pm PT
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Wow, Leo Dickinson that is an amazing post and story.
it's nice to hear from climbers such as yourself who were actually there during that time period and right in the center of the action.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 24, 2012 - 02:19pm PT
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Mr Dickenson, sir that was one of the best post SuperTopo has ever had.
I remember hearing and reading of you crazy ass Brits patagonian adventures in slack jawed amazement. Much respect and thank you for your absolutely pertinent input.
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Kimbo
Trad climber
seattle
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Jan 24, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
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You know the crazy thing about posting an idea on this thread is that most people won't even bother to read what you say, then comment as though they have.
Hey Largo, i did post a reply to your ideas on the "vanguard" a few pages back. perhaps you didn't see it, or wished not to comment.
either way, yes at times forums tend to operate in the way you describe. or people don't even read other's comments, just wanting to hear their own opinions.
much as in "real life" sometimes!
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Sam Lightner, Jr
Social climber
WY
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Jan 24, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
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Thank you Mr. Dickinson... that tells us a lot.
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Gene
climber
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Jan 24, 2012 - 03:04pm PT
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fòradaiball = Juan de Fuca (RIP)?
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nature
climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
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Jan 24, 2012 - 03:06pm PT
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It's too bad the bunched up panty phenomena is less about the attitude Leo Dickinson espouses and more about the lynch mob mentality.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jan 24, 2012 - 03:09pm PT
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Dickinson is telling the story I thought every climber in the Englishspeaking world knew very well. Thanks!
There is no necessary link from Dickinson's story to the current chopping though. Concerning the current chopping the "climbing community" has to make up "it's ethical mind" once more.
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MH2
climber
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Jan 24, 2012 - 03:18pm PT
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A thank you to Leo Dickinson.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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Jan 24, 2012 - 03:45pm PT
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yankeepeerla
WTF?
la vostra ironia scivola sul piano inclinato della mia indifferenza, yankeepeerla
translates to
The irony of your slides on the inclined plane of my indifference, yankeepeerla
A piece of paper is an ink-lined plane.
An inclined plane is a slope up.
A slow pup is a lazy dog.
Ipso facto, a piece of paper is a lazy dog.
just sayin
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jan 24, 2012 - 03:45pm PT
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Dingus: Read "has to" descriptively and not normatively. Used normatively: Persons in this thread has mentioned chopping and The Nose. And both you and I know that the Italians are free to do whatever they want if they have the moral courage and are willing to take the blame, the threats and the possible legal consequences. As I see it this discussion is about the future and not about the past.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 24, 2012 - 03:48pm PT
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Dickinson is telling the story I thought every climber in the Englishspeaking world knew very well. Thanks!
Even a quick look at this thread makes it clear that hardly anyone knows the story Leo told.
The general assumption seems to be that Maestri went to Patagonia, put up a route on CT which, while it seems sort of overbolted, is part of history, so why would anyone chop it?
In fact, Maestri went back to Patagonia because he was enraged that people would doubt his claimed (but now disproven) earlier ascent, and drilled that line as a way of telling the entire climbing world to f*#k off. It was a deliberate insult, made by a man now generally agreed to have lied about his earlier climb.
Why anyone would see it as something worth preserving is baffling.
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Gene
climber
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Jan 24, 2012 - 03:52pm PT
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In fact, Maestri went back to Patagonia because he was enraged that people would doubt his claimed (but now disproven) earlier ascent, and drilled that line as a way of telling the entire climbing world to f*#k off.
+1
Said line never completed by Maestri, who never summited Cerro Torre, which makes the status of the CR as a historical shrine of some sort even stranger.
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nature
climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
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Jan 24, 2012 - 04:03pm PT
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Why anyone would see it as something worth preserving is baffling.
+1
Again, it's more about people having their panties in a bunch and less about what Mr. Dickinson has to say.
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enzolino
climber
Galgenen, Switzerland
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Jan 24, 2012 - 04:27pm PT
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I don't want to start a process again on the '59 Egger Maestri route but there are several things that don't make so much sense to me ...
A. Maestri is described as a "huge-ego" climber ... so why he credited the lead of the climb of the first ascent of Cerro Torre to Toni Egger?
B. 60 bolts are mentioned ... but in this interview he didn't say they used so many bolts ...
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/0604/whats_new/cesare-maestri.html
C. He was found half dead on the Cerro Torre' glacier ... how can people pretend he can remember precise details of his experience after such a traumatic event where he also lost a partner and a friend?
I have another comment ... I read positive comments of respect towards Maestri's achievement from climbers of the caliber of Hans Kammerlander, Reihnard Karl, Simone Moro, etc on the Compressor route ... and we read here other more positive accounts beside that of Leo Dickinson ...
My conclusion is that the opinion on the Compressor route is disputable, and two boys don't have the right to do what they did just because they summited the mountain ...
It's also interesting that the two most important italian forum strongly condemn the action of K&K ... and I wonder why these differences between american and italians ... and I don't believe that the reason is Maestri's nationality (Ferrari or Salvaterra are italian as well) ... besides the stories of Garibotti and Dickinson, have you ever read Maestri's books?
PS. Melissa ... where are you? Would you like to spend a romantic night with me on one of the Nose's ledges? You can choose which one but ... the Sickle is a little too crowded (I like intimacy) and the Dolt Tower a little bit too smelly ... I would suggest El Cap Towe ... very flat and comfortable ... ;-)
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Jan 24, 2012 - 04:48pm PT
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Nope, the opinion on the compressor route is not disputable. Too far of a stretch to call it climbing.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Jan 24, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
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Rolo, thanks for keeping us informed about this...
It's hard to argue with such a remarkable and accomplished climber.
A Man who not only has a top flight web site.
But....
A candy loved around the world.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Jan 24, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
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two boys don't have the right to do what they did just because they summited the mountain ...
They didn't do what they did because the summited, they chopped the bolts because they knew they didn't belong on that beautiful mountain.
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nature
climber
Aridzona for now Denver.... here I come...
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Jan 24, 2012 - 04:53pm PT
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you're a dick if you call them boys.
edit: ionlyski I realize you did knot.
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
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Jan 24, 2012 - 04:58pm PT
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Not I. upthread
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