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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 25, 2011 - 06:45pm PT
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Probably saw for 5 or 6 this year, including this beauty on the way to the Iceberg boulder. Never really felt threatened. The baby's are the one's to watch out for. They are kind of clueless the first year.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2011 - 07:00pm PT
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I know the green ones are the "Mojave Rattlesnake," and are the ones to avoid at all cost...but what about these brownish-tan snakes? WTF are they?
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 25, 2011 - 07:07pm PT
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There was a debate a while back, but I am voting for the Red diamondback.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
Kayenta, AZ
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Oct 25, 2011 - 07:26pm PT
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There may actually be benefits to being bitten by a rattler. I had heard that folks who had been bitten never got arthritis. So, I searched it, and there does seem to be some truth to this claim.
Though Primor’s study was the first official recognition of the healing properties of snake venom, the idea has been popular for years. Long before Dr. Primor published his study, there were already reports of successful arthritis treatment through snake bites.
The first reported case was that of a 66 year old Englishman who suffered from chronic arthritis. Accidentally getting bitten by a snake, he announced on the BBC channel in 2002 that the joint pain on his finger was gone at least three to four weeks after the bite. Unfortunately, the pain returned soon after, first only mildly for 2 months, but then resuming fully in the succeeding months. Soon enough, the snake bite phenomenon piqued the interest of different people back then.
Full article here:
http://dinodelellis.net/snake-venom-for-arthritis/
You definitely don't want to be bitten by a Mojave rattler! This is the only species of rattle snake that has both hemotoxin and neurotoxin in their venom. Hemotoxin, what most other rattlers have acts locally, destroying tissues around the bite site. Neurotoxin acts on the nervous system and is the type of venom cobras and some of the other, much more deadly snakes have. Rattle snake bites are rarely fatal, but I'm sure they are excruciatingly painful!
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PRRose
climber
Boulder
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Oct 25, 2011 - 07:32pm PT
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I've encountered peristent infestations at the base of the Oyster Bar and the base of Echo Rock (Quick Draw McGraw/Heart and Sole area)
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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Oct 25, 2011 - 08:09pm PT
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Billy Jack must never have gotten arthritis- smart man!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2011 - 08:15pm PT
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There are some still unstudied components in various venoms that may have profound clinical significance. I was at a Gordon Research conference 4 years ago and reportedly, the sting of a scorpion resulted in a complete but temporary remission of the symptoms of multiple sclerosis in a clinically studied case.
There is no doubt in my mind that disappearance of arthritis symptoms could occur after a snake bite. That's not to say it could also be a fantasy.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 25, 2011 - 09:34pm PT
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^^^^ It might have a few untoward side effects too.
I'll tough out my arthritis, thank you. :-)
I'll wager this kid, bitten by a fer-de-lance, need never worry about arthritis.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Oct 25, 2011 - 09:53pm PT
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Aw jeez Reilly! I was just starting to feel human again after a double roundabout with some flu inflicted on me thanks to the modern miracle of air travel and I had to see that!!??
I hold you personally responsible for the relapse I already feel coming on.
And of course it just means you'll have to wait even longer for those good ales I offerred up in exchange for your sage advice regarding my door...
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apogee
climber
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Oct 25, 2011 - 09:53pm PT
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"I had heard that folks who had been bitten never got arthritis."
Hoo-boy, that sounds like internetz 'science' to me.
More data, please. (Preferably not a collection of anecdotes, too.)
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strangeday
Trad climber
Brea ca.
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Oct 25, 2011 - 10:55pm PT
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Please tell me whatever the Fuuk did that to the kids leg, doesn't exist in California...
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apogee
climber
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Oct 26, 2011 - 12:18am PT
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Sad to hear about a death at MTRP.
Still, this story is lacking on loads of details...the article said either snakebite or a medical condition...no autopsy had been done...I'd bet medical condition. Or at worst, a snakebite in a person with a pre-existing medical condition.
Rattlesnake bites happen...about 1200/year, according to the National Academy of Poison Control Centers...but deaths are uncommon- only 1 or 2 per year.
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Reeotch
Trad climber
Kayenta, AZ
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Oct 26, 2011 - 12:22am PT
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Apogee, wassup dude?
I do believe there is some serious medical research being done in this area:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12974396
I'm talking about snake venom therapy, not snake bite therapy.
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apogee
climber
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Oct 26, 2011 - 12:32am PT
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Sorry, Reeotch...there is soooooo much Internetz Krap® out there about snakebite that my default reaction is always skepticism.
All that was visible in your link was the abstract- the study was done at the University of Calcutta, which means it was probably related to snakes in the elapidae family (very toxic)- not crotalidae (rattlesnakes/pit vipers). If you can post good sources, I'm all ears.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 26, 2011 - 12:33am PT
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Strange,
No worries, mate. Lots of exotics have invaded Cali but the Fer-de-lance
isn't one of them. What that picture does illustrate is the amazing capacity
of the human body to persist. That poor boy was bitten in a remote village
in Central America and didn't make it to real medical care for two weeks!
While you are far more likely to die from a bee attack many rattler bites
cause lifelong problems. I know two people whose hands were never the same.
I'll try to find the pics of me playing Steve Irwin with a Mohave. :-)
Oh, and today's Trivial Pursuit answer is, yes, there is even a close relative
of the Fer-de-lance that lives in frigid Patagonia! None have been seen
in the Super-Canaleta yet but with global warming it is just a matter of time.
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apogee
climber
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Oct 26, 2011 - 12:38am PT
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No doubt some bites result in extensive tissue loss- such bites tend to fall under the 'Moderate Morbidity' category- but there are as many or more that result in relatively minor or no tissue damage.
To whit, an(other) anecdote...a good friend was bitten on the top of her foot while walking to hot springs near Big Sur...definitely envenomated, but no long term tissue damage, and normal functionality.
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apogee
climber
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Oct 26, 2011 - 12:51am PT
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Follow-up article to the MTRP death:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/sep/09/mission-trails-park-body-idd/
"A woman who was walking along Father Junipero Serra Trail after 8 a.m. Wednesday saw Andrews’ body about 10 feet down a hillside. He was wearing a T-shirt, jogging shorts and running shoes, and may have been there for as long as two days, investigators said."
Ever been on Fr Junipero Serra Trail? I have...hundreds of times...it's a road winding through Mission Gorge...this guy was apparently found 10' off the side of the road. If snakebite had been his primary mechanism, there is no doubt that he would have been able to get himself to the road where there would be literally dozens of people walking/jogging/cycling by. More likely, he would have been able to limp his way back to the Visitor Center, or the parking area.
Who's to say this guy's cause of death was snakebite? Maybe something bit him after he had an MI while running, and fell down the bank?
Not enough information. You can bet, though, that the public's perception will be 'snakebite death in Mission Gorge!'
More facts, please.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 26, 2011 - 12:53am PT
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Reeotch,
That is interesting but the ANCROD patients only fared marginally better (42 vs 34%)
plus their brain bleeding was a bit worrisome. I guess I'll stick with
the red wine and aspirin therapy for now. No doubt there is a wealth
of potential in snake venom.
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