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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2015 - 04:16pm PT
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Ed said: "I think it is easy to say that life has a physical explanation..."
But who is going to say that physicality itself has a physical explanation, when if you keep reducing down, you get to that which has no physical extent?
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Mar 28, 2015 - 04:18pm PT
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But who is going to say that physicality itself has a physical explanation, when if you keep reducing down, you get to that which has no physical extent?
maybe, but maybe not... but that is a mind stretch for most posting here and perhaps more strange than anything Largo has posted.
he should ask his car pool about "pre-geometry"
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mar 28, 2015 - 04:37pm PT
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You must understand your students (MikeL)
Oh my God, now we are Largo's students??
Get a grip.
when if you keep reducing down, you get to that which has no physical extent? (JL)
I suppose that no physical extent is a step in the right direction, away from Hilbert spaces and quantum flux. John's really trying to extricate himself from metaphysical flapdoodle. Keep at it, big guy!
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Mar 28, 2015 - 06:28pm PT
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But who is going to say that physicality itself has a physical explanation, when if you keep reducing down, you get to that which has no physical extent?
This is why God, no-thing, and bed-time were invented; to put an end to kids asking, "Why?"
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Mar 28, 2015 - 07:12pm PT
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"Get a grip." -jgill
Easy now, bro.
It's supposed to be common knowledge here that I am the bad cop in this neighborhood. Back off.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Mar 28, 2015 - 07:55pm PT
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Rene Descarte espoused his declaration of mindful existence by declaring "I think, therefore I am".
On a more primal level one could say "I stink, therefore I am".
Primal over Pompous.
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Mar 28, 2015 - 08:11pm PT
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Let me just save Largo the trouble:
"When have I ever said I was trying to teach anyone anything?"
There.
Still, I have sometimes wondered if he's bothered to obtain inka shōmei.
I rather doubt it.
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thebravecowboy
climber
Greyrock, CO
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Mar 28, 2015 - 08:15pm PT
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This is why God, no-thing, and bed-time were invented; to put an end to kids asking, "Why?"
hee-hee-hee
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Mar 28, 2015 - 08:21pm PT
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Mar 28, 2015 - 08:35pm PT
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^^^Dog hocked a lougie onto a magnolia leaf.
My mind is all asunder.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Mar 28, 2015 - 08:44pm PT
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Why did you post that pic^?
Why did Largo climb the Nose in a day?
Why did Lynn free-climb the Nose?
Why doesn't last years flu shoot work on this years flu epidemic?
seems like the question Why is best at starting the scientific method of inquiring of past experiences? And maybe then some..
Why is Honnold going to free-solo the Nose?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Mar 28, 2015 - 09:47pm PT
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"Life is what you make it."
Harry Gordon Selfridge
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MikeL
Social climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 28, 2015 - 11:30pm PT
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I apologize to both Johns. I had a couple of glasses of wine last night, and I was feeling perverse. My bad. I shouldn’t have written that. I don’t think Largo is teaching that anything is anything. I think he’s suggesting that people should simply look for themselves if they have any doubts (or any over-the-top claims) of what truth is. (Sorry.)
On another note, . . .
. . . I’m wondering if anyone has gone to any of the “Science and Nondualism” (SAND) conferences that occur in or near the bay area these years. The next one is in October in San Jose, and it will span 4 days to include 2 days of pre conference workshops. If anyone has attended any of them in the past, I’m wondering what they were like. What’s being talked about, what are the sessions like, what are the people like, etc.
I’m thinking I might want to submit an idea for a presentation at the conference.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 29, 2015 - 12:55am PT
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SAND / Nonduality: For thousand of years, through deep inner inquiry, philosophers and sages have came to the realization that there is only one substance and we are therefore all part of it. This substance can be called Awareness, Consciousness, Spirit, Advaita, Brahman, Tao, Nirvana or even God. It is constant, ever present, unchangeable and is the essence of all existence.
I should think you'd have to buy into this sort of statement to bother attending. I'll give you it's all a step up from "What the bleep do we know?" but, for me, this sort of thing relative to science invariably brings up the image of Cinderella's stepsisters trying on the glass slipper.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2015 - 07:53am PT
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John's really trying to extricate himself from metaphysical flapdoodle. Keep at it, big guy!
Strange thing is that an empirical view based on both sides of the reality coin - things, and no thing, forms and emptiness, space and stuff, where both source the other, is seen as "flapdoodle," though it is the most obvious fact of life and one we live with all day everyday.
For example, if I want to go move across the room and fetch a glass of water, I have to pass through space to get there. My discursive mind can't get hold of space as a thing, but I can get some sense of dimensionality and extension through estimating the distance between where I am and the glass, while assuming my physical form will move through the space unimpeded.
My sense organs tell me that the space I move through is qualitatively different than the place I am standing, my physical body, and the glass of water I am going to fetch. However if I am to believe the measurements, my body and the glass etc. are composed of a ratio of matter to space that far favors the space, and when I reduce the matter itself down it dissolves into that which has no physical extent. Conversely, the space is not empty in any absolute sense as it contains energy potentials and all that jazz. Flapdoodle would be to start considering space and emptiness as a thing.
When we look at mind we quite naturally identify with the content of mind, mistaking it for mind itself, which is empty and is no thing. In this sense, evolution did not "create" mind any more than it created the space between me and the moon. Evolution created brain function. The reason AI, as advertised, will never attain sentience of any kind is because it is focused on producing objective function and content, believing mind is an extension of and blowback from, stuff. Here we expect the stuff to "do" what has nothing to with doing, as it were.
JL
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Mar 29, 2015 - 08:12am PT
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Space is just another thing. Meditative experience is just another state of mind, a sensation like any other.
Flapdoodle solved.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 29, 2015 - 09:00am PT
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dissolves into that which has no physical extent
That is the subtle material plane .....
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Mar 29, 2015 - 09:15am PT
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re: mind and volition
I wonder if Edh has found (edit: made) the time by now to watch that Sam Harris free will video on youtube?
"I am too limited to make the time to read popular works on science these days. Perhaps when I slow down a bit I might..." -Edh
Perhaps that cues the problem (misunderstanding)? Most of those popular books listed (and of course there are many more) don't just concern "science" - they concern the philosophy of science and the humanity of science (or humanism of science). Thus their justification, the interest of many, and my interest. Many desire to explore otherwise bridge that notorious gap if not gulf between science and "the humanities". Right?
Make the time!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Mar 29, 2015 - 09:21am PT
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Well,
different strokes for different folks.
Nature in Her Wisdom sees to that.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
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Mar 29, 2015 - 09:29am PT
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Thus ... my interest.
Not bad, imo.
Since apparently tvashfruit suffers adult Asperger's (a recent supertopo diagnosis it seems) which limits his creative potential, comprehension and appreciation of the so-called humanities and what not.
"a hard time..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome
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