What is "Mind?"

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cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Sep 9, 2014 - 01:02pm PT
What to make of all this? MacDougall's results were flawed because the methodology used to harvest them was suspect, the sample size far too small, and the ability to measure changes in weight imprecise. For this reason, credence should not be given to the idea his experiments proved something, let alone that they measured the weight of the soul as 21 grams. His postulations on this topic are a curiosity, but nothing more.

Read more at http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp#eZ36P1HiCoZmbeq7.99

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 9, 2014 - 01:04pm PT
Blood also pools in the main torso of a dead body, making that torso heavier (and the limbs correspondingly lighter). That effect begins immediately after the heart stops. That could have been what you experienced - or perhaps you changed the way you attempted to move the body before/after death. Without measurement - it's all conjecture.

Rigor mortis becomes pronounced within 2 hours.

Hey, this is just what happens to a body after it dies. There's no mystery here.

The idea that a dead body 'gets heavier (or lighter, for that matter)' (it doesn't-yet another wive's tale) because it's soul leaves it? Not quite as much evidence for that, I'm afraid, no matter how many corpses one has moved.
WBraun

climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 01:05pm PT
They measured the weight of the soul as 21 grams

Bullsh!t

You believe everything you read.

The soul is not material and no material instrument can measure the soul.

WBraun

climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 01:06pm PT
The idea that a dead body 'gets heavier

I never made any such statement.

I said it feels heavier
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 9, 2014 - 01:08pm PT
Well, they can feel heavier for the aforementioned reasons. Leverage is another big factor. You can drape a supple body over you or near you, moving it's center of gravity closer to yours. Not so if it's stiffer.

And I'll admit that I seldom read your posts, Werner, and even then, not very carefully. They're...not all that cogent.

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 02:38pm PT
What, oh God, is Mind?
What, oh God, is Mind?
Credit: Largo
MH2

climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 04:25pm PT
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Sep 9, 2014 - 04:29pm PT
Interesting Cintune. Thanks for the reference, I always wondered about that. There were problems with his human methodology for sure, but when I heard he probably poisoned 15 dogs just to experiment on them and found they had no souls, then I knew for sure I didn't trust him or his results.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2014 - 05:18pm PT
Dingus said:

Be sure to explain to your scientist, largo, the reason we are having this quibble over the nature of the universe... ie you want the door open to mysterious energies that can't be measured, by science - ever. That is the root of this discussion.



Who ever said such a thing. All Mike and I have ever said is that you cannot know all the quandrants of mind by way of measuring, or by the imaginary practice of excluding the observer from your observations. Measuring is about discrete parts. WHat you are proposing is that "reality" is one "thing" that looks a certain way, a belief plainly stated by your words insisting that "energy IS mater." The Harvard professor begs to differ with you.

Where is this discussion are there "mysterious energies?" Who put forth such a claim? What IS "mysterious?" Or better yet, what is the limit of measuring?

JL

MH2

climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 07:37pm PT
Measuring is about discrete parts. (JL)


Are you sure?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_(mathematics);
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Sep 9, 2014 - 07:55pm PT
light












































for mr. braun. thanks for your work
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
Sep 10, 2014 - 04:58am PT
For me learning is the fun thing. When I'm convinced I know a thing it becomes more difficult to learn that I might be wrong or need to learn more about a subject. My own personal views on science, phylosophy, politics, etc. must always be a work in progress. When I stop learning I've stopped truly living and am only existing. On contemplating the discussion here regarding matter and energy I decided to do a quick google search and picked out these definitions for matter and energy from two different educational web sites for kids and students who are studying. The definitions correlate with what I have read in several books on physics and is basic scientific knowledge.


Matter vs. Energy:

*The universe is made up of matter and energy.

Matter:
1. Has mass
2. Takes up space
3. Is usually a “thing”

Energy:
1. It is not like matter
2. Does not have mass
3. Does not take up space
4. Energy moves matter!!!!!!

** Energy is the ability to make things move. Light, heat, sound, motion, and electricity are all forms of energy.

Properties of Matter: (characteristics)
Color, shape, size, hardness, texture, malleability, porosity, conductivity, odor,
Mass. *(things that help us identify matter).

(Source; www.iteachbio.com)


Fast Facts:

1. Everything in the Universe is made up of matter and energy.

2. Matter is anything that has mass and occupies space.

3. Matter describes the physical things around us: the earth, the air you breathe, your pencil.
Matter is made up of particles called atoms and molecules. Atoms are particles of
elements - substances that cannot be broken down further.

4. There are currently 109 known elements, but obviously there are more than 109 different
substances in the universe. This is because atoms of elements can combine with one another
to form compounds.

5. There are 4 fundamental states of matter: solid, liquid, gas and plasma.

6. Energy is the ability to cause change or do work.

7. Some forms of energy include light, heat, chemical, nuclear, electrical energy and
mechanical energy.

8. There are two main types of energy: potential and kinetic. Potential energy is energy
that is stored, while kinetic energy is energy in use.

9. In order for electrical energy to flow, it must follow a complete path through a circuit.

10. Dark matter refers to material that can't be detected by their emitted radiation but
whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter, like stars
and galaxies. Dark energy, or negative energy, is the energy found in space.

(Source; www.kidsconnect.com)


*REMEMBER*

"For in the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught." -B. Dioum
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 10, 2014 - 06:51am PT
10. Dark matter refers to material that can't be detected by their emitted radiation but
whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter, like stars
and galaxies. Dark energy, or negative energy, is the energy found in space.

Isn't dark matter scientific nomenclature for 'we don't know why are calculations are off, but they are grossly OFF. Must be dark matter?'

Dark matter might be better labeled MISSING MATTER?

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 10, 2014 - 06:58am PT
If you reduce the energy of a thing to zero, that thing ceases to exist? Absolute zero is absolute annihilation?

If you increase the energy in a thing you will change that thing? It will be a different thing, eventually, given enough energy?

Matter attracts matter - but science doesn't really know how it works? ie gravity. They know its effects but they do not know how it really works?

Matter is 'congealed' energy?

Energy is a thing? That thing will shock the sh#t out of you if you complete that electrical circuit, right? The wires don't shock you... the electricity does?

DMT
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:50am PT
Incidentally I will be spearheading a fund for 'The Preservation of the Natural Universe' and because of the colossal scale of this project donations on the scale of an unspeakable quantity will needed to bankroll this endeavor. Due to the unknowable nature and quantity of the dark matter there will be no limit to the budget and due to the unthinkable forces behind the dark energy any blank checks and all credit card information shall be accepted...

(Sarcasm).
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 10, 2014 - 07:58am PT
Just visit Home Depot. They got lots of credit card numbers for you.

DMT
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:02am PT
Scary...

Also Dingus,
Regarding my last post,
'twas intended as sarcasm with love; with ironoclasmistic intent.
Bushman

Social climber
Elk Grove, CA
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:05am PT
Or Ironosarcasmic
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:23am PT
Isn't dark matter scientific nomenclature for 'we don't know why are calculations are off, but they are grossly OFF. Must be dark matter?'

Dark matter might be better labeled MISSING MATTER?


not now... the characteristics of dark matter are distinct from dark energy, both of which account for the missing matter.

But the two have very different properties.

While we do not have a definitive explanation of either dark matter or dark energy, we have candidate explanations of both. Over the next 20 to 40 years, it will be the focus of research in high energy physics (by way of precision cosmology rather than particle accelerators) to study dark energy. Experiments are underway to identify the candidates for dark matter.

Cosmology, and particle physics, have drawn a box around what those things could be... the boundaries of the box are tightened until we have the explanation.

WBraun

climber
Sep 10, 2014 - 08:35am PT
They will spend billions on research, expensive machines and tax the average poor citizen of their hard earned meager incomes to try and understand dark matter.

All while it's right there in front of them all along.

When you study the "egg" and really "see" then you will come to the understanding.

It's very simple and that's why the gross materialists are so bewildered and make it so complicated.

This is the reason Largo's thread was originally started.

Knowledge ..... it's not outside of you ......
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