What is "Mind?"

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High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:00am PT
Insofar as that's true, what about LG's role in all the miscommunication and tone and flippancy on this thread. As far as I'm concerned he's earned all the criticism and even misunderstanding (when it results) to come his way. And more.

But his How to Rock Climb was great. So too was his anchors book. (Btw, in part, this is because he deferred to the science and science-based engineering that characterizes our beloved sport, and backs it up and enhances it.)

So there it is. ;)
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:07am PT
I didn't conflate anyTHING. I'm not the one banking on mysterious undetectable energies.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:07am PT
Scratch any "thing," and you will find a concept. Every concept is an abstraction. You don't grok a thing; you grok its concept. There are no things, just concepts.

So?

DMT
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:12am PT
Irrelevant to his Strassler post. Are you here to 'meet out justice', or discuss What is Mind?

I've ribbed Largo as much as anyone, and he's returned fire, as you do, but, in the end, I take sound information where I find it, regardless of the source. LG comes off as pompous, I come off as smarmy, HFCS hates to be disagreed with, Mike L's parents appear not to have come from Earth, and Werner is, well, Werner - yeah, we know, already. I've kinda run out of material there, frankly - a certain familiarity creeps in, despite our proclivities.

I don't see anyone else here 'in the other camp', or incapable of tossing out an interesting or compelling idea. It's a pot luck - everyone here has offered up at least one platter of crunchy egg rolls. In the end, I'm here to extend my fantastically limited understanding of things (and have a little fun along the way).

So far, so good, really. There's chaff here, sure, but enough wheat to make toast.
WBraun

climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:13am PT
I'm not the one banking on mysterious undetectable energies.

No one is banking on such a thing.

All energies material and spiritual are detectable.

No sane person would bank on undetectable energies.

Undetectable energies are just that, undetectable, and never ever existed to begin with except by mental speculators with poor fund of knowledge.

You guys make up too much sh!t ......
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:15am PT
Points taken.

Off to read Waking Up, by Sam Harris, now.

I'll actually be looking to tear it apart, and I hope to succeed in at least a few areas, lol!
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:16am PT
One can't know about undetectable energy - so it can't be discussed, by definition.

That's all I'm sayin'.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:16am PT
Western dichotomies!

How about the universe is both a material thing and an abstraction not either/ or?

Why can't we have a universe full of things while realizing that all we will ever know of them are just our abstractions? Until of course we bump our head on one. And then immediately begin to figure out (abstract) why. Our fault, its fault, their fault etc.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:24am PT
One can't know about undetectable energy - so it can't be discussed, by definition.

Can't be discussed?

Lol.

DMT
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:24am PT
Why can't we have a universe full of things while realizing that all we will ever know of them are just our abstractions?

So why are we arguing? This comes straight from science. Information science, psychology, science of the mental life, evolutionary theory, etc. all point to (a) an objective real world out there (that's intelligible and learnable); and (b) a mental life evolved as learning machine and or prediction machine (that maps the world using abstraction, concepts, perceptions; utilizing attention, focus, memory, intention, strategy, etc) for getting on with it (primarily through survival and reproduction).

Nature investigation via science. Basic principles.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:27am PT
Next time a loose piece of trundled choss cracks me in the shin, I'll have to remember to tell myself it's just a concept.

All that blood, just a concept.

My desire to choke the crap out of the idiot who kicked it loose.

Well yeah, that would be just a concept.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:28am PT
Hope it wasn't too serious, short of stitches, I hope.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:29am PT
Cuz you can't detect it. You can substitute any word you like for 'energy'.

Get it?

Please say yes. Restore my faith in humanity.

I just dodged a high speed concept by 3 feet this Sunday. It made one helluva a conceptual buzz as it flew past.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:30am PT
You're a concept tvash, 1s and 0s and nothing more.

Faith Restored?

DMT
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:39am PT
So is the soul or spirit a thing?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 9, 2014 - 11:42am PT
I dunno what you mean. Define soul or spirit? Or more simply... answer me this, is this soul or spirit to which you refer, is it real? Or imaginary? From there you might guess my next response and ultimate answer...

DMT
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Sep 9, 2014 - 12:11pm PT
I recall reading years ago that a body supposedly weighed just a few ounces less immediately after death than before and this was attributed to the departure of the soul which if true, would definitely be measurable material. Anybody ever read a followup to that?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 9, 2014 - 12:14pm PT
LOL you just have to throw gasoline on the fire, don't you Jan?

DMT
WBraun

climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
Jan for some reason when I been on carry outs (carrying human bodies) in litters the dead ones always feel heavier.

I attribute this due to the soul leaving the body.

A dead body is no longer animated anymore.

Dead bodies always felt like lead bricks to me.

We had one man once die on us while trying revive him with cpr.

Suddenly a Buddhist monk appeared on the trail.

The ranger in charge made everyone clear the scene and was trying to get the monk to leave
as the monk was sitting peacefully on a rock next to the man who had just died or was leaving his body.

I told the ranger in charge to leave the monk where he is because it is known as being auspicious when
a monk like this appears at the time death especially in this kind of situation.

The ranger most likely thought I was full of sh!t but respected the idea and let him stay.

The monk remained in his meditation state until we body bagged the man and proceeded to carry him down the trail.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Sep 9, 2014 - 12:28pm PT
Interesting story WBraun.
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