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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Welcome to the Tvashcentric universe, I guess.
Why don't you guys stop preaching and just resume meditating?
If I went on a meditation retreat, would you be stunned into silence?
Tell you what - you foot the bill, and I'll go.
Now go forth and enjoy yourselves.
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MH2
climber
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Before we do any of the work, we are largely if not entirly on autpo pilot.
Says the guy who has said the same 1,000 times before.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2014 - 01:23pm PT
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Tell you what - you foot the bill, and I'll go
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Fair enough. Tell me where you are and I'll set it up. I know a lot of solid folk in that world. As you will shortly find out, this has nothing to do with preaching. Anymore that reporting the findings at CERNE is preaching. Psp, Mike and I are basically just relating our thoughts as they arose from an experiential practice, trying to contribute to the converstation on mind.
Once you have some of that experience as well, it will be interesting to hear what you have to say.
JL
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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I'm in Seattle.
I'm always up for an adventure.
November sucks here for outdoor stuff anyway.
And I will report back in detail.
It'll provide some fresh ST material, for sure.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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For the rest of us armchair adventurers this will be exciting as the reports come rolling in!
;>)
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
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Okay, Tvash. I'm on it. There are several Soto zen centers up in Seattle but I want to see about the Renzai temple. This traditin has a little martial arts energy introjected into the mix and a robust apporoach is probably more suitable and effective for a climber. It's hightly ritualized but that's just to get a real solid structure underneath you as you slowly drop. You will be glad for what at first what seems odd (at least it did to me).
The trick is you have to get into a sesshin or retreat long enough for your mind to settle, and that usually takes at least four days. Then it's like you're on a bivy ledge 10,000 miles in the air.
Oh this is gonna be good.
JL
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Now...before we go any further - who's gonna foot the bill (per my original comment) for this?
Just double checking.
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MH2
climber
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Good choice, Tvash. Maybe we can set up a help account. I'd contribute.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Don't worry it's cheap Kwam UM school is typically $50/day includes three meals and sleeping on the floor.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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OK. That is cheap.
I will take it seriously, of course.
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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One little concern: What if Tvash reports back, babbling frenetically about the epiphany he experienced. Are we to believe him, or simply put him in the same box as Largo, deluded but exuberant, a pilgrim converted to the realm of emptiness?
This could be a problem.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
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Every scientific experiment has to guard against observer bias.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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considering the Zendo, and the beloved Largo's OP "what is mind?"
....
would I know if I had one?
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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The Jakes are great . . . priceless!
;>)
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WBraun
climber
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We used to these experiments.
Dale Bard's was to keep hand traversing until the "pump" was reached.
But !!!!! he wouldn't let go and fought the "pump" by keeping going.
He would eventually "break thru" and the pump would go away and he would
still be up there traversing back and forth until he got bored.
Mind over matter ....
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 10, 2014 - 09:47am PT
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One little concern: What if Tvash reports back, babbling frenetically about the epiphany he experienced. Are we to believe him, or simply put him in the same box as Largo, deluded but exuberant, a pilgrim converted to the realm of emptiness?
This is a curious jab - delueded but exuberant. That there is the shadow side of scientism, whereby only calculating is real and valid, all else being "delusions."
Funny thing is, John, I have never talked about any "epiphany." Ephiphanies are content. Every time I used to have fantastic or seemingly fantastic insights the teacher would basicaly say, "Who gives a sh#t. That's not it."
It's never about content, sage or delusional or otherwise. It goes in the other direction what you are "thinking." There is no content to be delusional about. That's the part that you are missing.
And Tvash, I would never make a recomendation without offering to pay for it too. We need to get as big calculatior in there on the cushion and have HIM or HER report back that there is NO epiphany, no content, no nothing. There's just presence.
JL
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Oct 10, 2014 - 09:52am PT
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