What is "Mind?"

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Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:27am PT
"And you obliviously have no clue to what else there is that can't be seen."

That's like calling someone "Shorty" because they're not 50 feet tall.

Mike L may not find meaning in anything (just experience!), but he is the God of Value Judgments.
jstan

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:29am PT
Incomprehensible.

We don't know how even one brain works. Brains are wondrously complex networks with almost unending ability to make new neuronal connections; a process we call learning. A learning that is survival oriented and takes place from birth onward. Both the brain and learning experience are unique to the individual and neither is accessible to others. Who knows whether what I say I am thinking is what I am actually thinking. Indeed the individual does not in fact know all it is thinking.

The assumption something I have thought is a reality or a truth for another is just that. An assumption. One we all make based upon the belief what I am thinking is ME and since I know ME I know it is the truth. Then you have to garnish that with all the behavioral patterns we develop as members of a society. You can get arguments purely for arguments' sake - if one is not careful. Arguments that outlast ST threads by orders of magnitude.

What you do with your brain, whether drug use, meditation, religion, or even worse things - is your problem. If your descriptive ability is sufficient to get others interested in what you have been doing, to that extent your experience is of interest to others. There is no TRUTH anywhere. We are like a billion atoms all scattering off each other in events not known. We developed statistical mechanics to get average properties in such processes. Just as we write and enforce laws to deal with behavioral space.

Scientific arguments are quite different. There is hope of an answer. Only hope. If everyone keeps coming up with measurements that, within the limits of precision, say the world is a particular way, we err if we conclude the world is exactly this way. We might better conclude only that if we assume it is this way, our predictions will be the best we can get. Could be wrong but they are the best that is available. Better cannot be had. This capability is not of trivial importance. We are after all

prediction machines.

Far more important than "absolute truth." Absolute truth is a form of self-delusion.
WBraun

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:29am PT
That's like calling someone "Shorty" because they're not 50 feet tall.

Well in that case shorty.

Get a ladder and look over the fence .......
WBraun

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:32am PT
There is no TRUTH anywhere.


Absolute truth is a form of self-delusion.


Says the guy who just made an "absolute" ......
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 8, 2014 - 09:33am PT
I'm limited to a 30 foot ladder, and I don't have an in with the Greenwood fire station.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:08am PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#376542

I just want to know... are those eeg sensors on baby... or electrodes, lol!




Resistance is futile.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:19am PT
Resistance is futile.

Ever get a sense of deja vue? What flashed through my mind is that 200 years from now, the politicians will be trying to control everyone's brains with electrodes, and most likely Harrisism will be a new religion or at least a new sect of Buddhism, and there will of course be people bowing down and making offerings to golden statues of him. He'll be no more responsible for the whackiness of his followers than Jesus or Buddha is.

Of course there will also be people trying to maintain the original teachings and spirit of Harris. The question is whether there will be more of them or more of the whackos. History is not encouraging.
WBraun

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:22am PT
But still ....

Everyone's soul knows what is genuine ......
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:26am PT
Yes, in a 'genuine Corinthian Leather' kind of way.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:26am PT
the politicians will be trying to control everyone's brains with electrodes

The politicians or Skynet?

most likely Harrisism will be a new religion...

How about we call Harrisism... Regenesis... and the new religion... superligion instead?

"In the beginning was the word."

.....

there will of course be people bowing down and making offerings to golden statues of him

Good thing this only "flashed" through your mind, Jan. Sounds awful. I like to think future generations will be a lot smarter than that.

History is not encouraging.

Well, as we both know but tend to lose sight of... there's (a) the history of the past and (b) the history of the future. Keep the evidence-based faith, Jan. IT GETS BETTER.

(If you haven't already, read Pinker's latest book.)
WBraun

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:28am PT
No ....

In the beginning was "sound" ......
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
Maestro, Ecosystem Ministry, Fatcrackistan
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:34am PT
most likely Harrisism will be a new religion...

I'm ok with this!

Tithe me baby!

DMT
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:38am PT
Regenesis and superligion. I like the idea behind those. My own research and notes have been to show the similarities of experience and non verbal symbols behind the meditative experiences of people from many different religions. Different religions, same human physiology and experiences.Harris is going beyond any religion. I wish I were around even 50 years from now to see how this is all working out.

I say and he says, that he is going beyond any religion and yet his vocabulary is from Buddhism. The next step for him would be to develop a new vocabulary that is not connected even to that tradition.And of course, the question the interviewer brought up about what to do with people who have an experience of a personal presence while meditating - the theistically inclined.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:48am PT
I wish I were around even 50 years from now to see how this is all working out.

Yeah, my wish, too!
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 10:49am PT
The next step for him would be to develop a new vocabulary...

Don't hold your breath, jump to 14:00...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Q6CWv7IXo


Needless to say, SH is wrong on this count. :)

In a 21st century world that has a million more ideas than say even the 18th or 19th century worlds it makes sense, it's only reasonable, to have new vocabularies and to expect going forward the developments of these.


Of course an irony here (and I've mentioned this before) - Who is a leading critic of the "poverty of language" in English? ANS SH. LOL!

I should add, in SH's defense, perhaps he's only encountered awful neologisms in his experience. Not hard to imagine as there have been plenty of those to come our way the last hundred years or so.

One of my favorites... awful favorites, that is: eupraxsophy. LOL.
Jan

Mountain climber
Colorado, Nepal & Okinawa
Sep 8, 2014 - 11:03am PT
Yes, the irony did hit me already. Another case of deja vue.
WBraun

climber
Sep 8, 2014 - 11:09am PT
A new vocabulary will have no effect other than reinforce the ultimate illusion.

Mantras, or sacred sounds, are used to pierce through sensual, mental and intellectual levels of existence
(all lower strata of consciousness) for the purpose of purification and spiritual enlightenment.

"By sound vibration one becomes liberated" (Vedanta-sutra 4.22).
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 8, 2014 - 11:12am PT
Werner: +1
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Sep 8, 2014 - 11:24am PT
Everything seems to be some form or another of energy, and there seems to be an infinite abundance of it around, everywhere, wherever one looks. In tantra, the practice is to disconnect the interpretations (content) from the energy that drives them. So, it makes me wonder why energy gloms onto content so ferociously to begin with? Why are beliefs, story lines, interpretations so strong in us?

A concept is just a thought, an idea, an abstraction. Concepts / beliefs / ideas seem to drive us from the great energy behind them, but why did the energy get behind or attach to them in the first place? What links them; what links energy and our conceptualizations?

EDIT: I should add, that disconnecting interpretations from energy means that one *can* then surf the energy as one can surf the waves in the ocean. They just keep coming.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Sep 8, 2014 - 11:28am PT
Forgive me if I find Harris neither profound nor original. My peeps have been espousing the same ideas all our adult lives.
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