What is "Mind?"

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jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Oct 10, 2014 - 12:05pm PT
It's never about content, sage or delusional or otherwise. It goes in the other direction what you are "thinking." There is no content to be delusional about. That's the part that you are missing

Well, if Tvash reports back in a calm and controlled manner, stating essentially the same thing, your perspective will gain credence. But if he shows the same symptoms as born-again Christians, and particularly if he alludes to the presence of strange Hilbert spaces he encountered, your cause will suffer, young fellow!
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 12, 2014 - 07:29am PT
Every scientific experiment has to guard against observer bias.

even regarding mind...

considering the Zendo, and the beloved Largo's OP "what is mind?"
would I know if I had one?


perhaps not...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/12/opinion/sunday/are-we-really-conscious.html

"The brain’s cognitive machinery accesses that interlinked information and derives several conclusions: There is a self, a me; there is a red thing nearby; there is such a thing as subjective experience; and I have an experience of that red thing. Cognition is captive to those internal models. Such a brain would inescapably conclude it has subjective experience."



while being exhorted to let go of the habits of science, perhaps it is more difficult to let go of the habits of a lifetime... science may lead us to the idea that the "mind" we think we have isn't.

no wonder Largo fights so passionately... "the Force is strong with this one..."
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 12, 2014 - 07:39am PT
RAUBENHEIMER

do you know him MR Hartouni?
PSP also PP

Trad climber
Berkeley
Oct 12, 2014 - 12:33pm PT


an interesting video on meditation and what it is all about. BTW this zen master was a physics professor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DG4d7WBdJw&feature=share

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2014 - 05:01pm PT
"The brain’s cognitive machinery accesses that interlinked information and derives several conclusions: There is a self, a me; there is a red thing nearby; there is such a thing as subjective experience; and I have an experience of that red thing. Cognition is captive to those internal models. Such a brain would inescapably conclude it has subjective experience."


Consciousness and "cognitive machinery" are not the same thngs, something made clear in the in experiential adventures.

What's also made clear is there is nNO stand-alone self; that red thing is organized by my brain; our thinking (cognition) is totally captive to all of these models - till we can detach from content, and the fundamental nature of our minds (empty, no thing) becomes an empirical (NOT discursively arrived at) fact.

The last sentense is a howler to someone who does any form of self observation. The "brain" is not some stand-alone entity that concludes anything. Mind and people conclude. This is one of the subtle traps of trying to objectify the subjective - you end up with impossible constructs.

The wider question is: What happens when mind experiences the fact that no thing (cognition AND experience) is "real," that all content simply rises and falls away like so much dust.

Incidentally, that link that PSP just posted shows a modern "guru" who if you'll notice has little to no resemblance to the hilarious versions of a "wise man" lampooned on this and others threads. He is, incidentally, a physicist, as mentioned.

JL
MH2

climber
Oct 12, 2014 - 07:17pm PT
Good Sir John the Keister Thumper confronts an infernal machine. The kick swings wild and he lands on his own backside.

jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Oct 12, 2014 - 07:47pm PT
What happens when mind experiences the fact that no thing (cognition AND experience) is "real," that all content simply rises and falls away like so much dust (JL)


go-b posts with the same absolute certainty.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Oct 12, 2014 - 08:33pm PT
Yeah, speaking of "impossible constructs."

It's a "fact" that no thing is "real."


(Except maybe dust.)


(Or maybe not even.)
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Oct 13, 2014 - 12:19am PT


A Nobel Prize for Woo Woo?
Written by Grant Cameron
Monday, 16 June 2014 20:52

I have data that could mute the Great Randi challenge. I know that is quite a statement but I do. Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell

In a fair and just world, if confirmed, the research experiments just conducted by Dr. Diane Powell would be a contender for a Nobel Prize. The key words are of course “fair and just” world.

Dr. Powell is a practicing psychiatrist; John Hopkins trained neuroscientist, a former faculty member at Harvard Medical School, and a contributor to the Institute of Noetic Sciences. She is also the author of the book The ESP Enigma.

Dr. Powell’s interest in the area of ESP was sparked in part by one encounter with a female patient in a hospital ward who indicated she was receiving psychic information about Dr. Powell that she should hear it. What the woman said in terms of information was 98% accurate. It was a life altering event for Powell.

The scientific investigation work that Powell has just completed in the field of ESP was described accurately as “data that could mute the great Amazing Randy challenge.” This is a $1,000,000 challenge for a one-million-dollar prize “to anyone who can show, under proper observing conditions, evidence of any paranormal, supernatural, or occult power or event.”

What does Powell have that is so good that Randi will have to possibly eat crow and pay out the prize? What is it that is such a major discovery that it might deserve a Nobel Prize?

The research has to do with non-verbal autistic children. In her newsletter Powell described her research.

Another source of evidence might come from mute autistic children, whose caregivers frequently report that their children can read their minds. If true, that suggests telepathy might be an alternative or default means of communication for those with language impairment.

Parents of the autistic savants I evaluated in India all reported telepathic experiences, in addition to other abilities. Then, shortly after my return to the USA, I read an article about an allegedly telepathic, autistic girl named Nandana. When possible, I hope to investigate her abilities. Her mother described her daughter's process of communication as follows: I taught her how to use the keyboard ... Now, if I ask her to write what I'm thinking, she can do it. Sometimes spelling errors happen and she still does not understand well the concepts of punctuation. If I say "space" (between words) in my mind, she types the word "space" instead of typing the "separation" between terms.

Next month I'll be filming experiments with another ten year-old autistic girl who was referred to me by my colleague Darold Treffert, the psychiatrist famous for his fifty-plus years of work on savants. Her parents were initially strong skeptics, so they were startled when they witnessed her ability to read her therapist's mind. Recognizing the profound significance this may have for our understanding of consciousness, they reached out to aid science, while requesting that their identity be hidden.

The family first thought their daughter was a mathematical savant, because she could provide answers to multiplication and division problems involving numbers over six digits, even though she couldn't do much simpler multiplication. Then her answers switched from an ordinary numerical format to an exponential one... immediately after the therapist began calculating on a device that displayed in exponential notation. This prompted the therapist to ask the girl how she knew the answer. The girl typed, "I see the numerators and denominators in your head." The therapist then tested her with pictures and sentences that were hidden from the girl's view. She was able to type accurate answers, even if the sentences were in a foreign language. These sessions were videotaped by the family and sent to me and Dr. Treffert. They are very intriguing and show 100% accuracy. Are these reports of telepathy real? Stay tuned.

A couple nights ago the results of the filmed scientific testing started to leak out. The results are absolutely staggering hinting that severely autistic children who exhibit ESP abilities may in fact be receiving a pure signal and be 100% accurate on the given targets.

The 100% accuracy has already been seen with autistic prodigious savants. Whatever their talent is they are usually 100% accurate. Therefore if you give then 2 five digit numbers to multiply together they will be accurate on the first try, or if they do calendar calculations they will be able on the first try to tell you the days of the week for any date in the past of future you can give them even though they often can’t multiply 7 x 4 or think there are 10 minutes in an hours and 10 seconds in a minute.

Were the non-verbal autistic children accurate? This is what Dr. Powell stated in an interview on June 12th,

Believe it or not but I have data that could mute the Great Randi challenge. I know that is quite a statement but I do. To meet that challenge you have to have it reviewed scientifically and they want a recommendation from some science journal. They want to see it in print somewhere.

This is fresh. I just did these experiments last month. That’s how fresh this information is… I have digit sequences that are 18 and 19 numbers long and 100% accuracy. The stats on that are incredible. I even had this one sequence where it’s 162 digits Out of 162 digits there was only 7 mistakes, and when told that is the wrong number this autistic child got it right on the second go. The stats on that are just staggering. That’s why I am saying it is well beyond the great Amazing Randi challenge.

This evidence was filed and if repeatable will be conclusive evidence that there is a consciousness element that is independent to the brain and which can make a non-local connection with other consciousnesses. It will be the final nail in the coffin of the idea that the brain produces consciousness and that it disappears at death. If confirmed there would be few discoveries in the history of science that would rival its importance.

Mechanism

A simplistic model of what be going on has to do with the right/left brain and their connection to a non-local mind that is part of the holographic universe.

This idea has been proposed by many people such as Dr. Edgar Mitchell, the sixth man to walk on the moon. He pointed out that as soon as science develops a generalized theory of information, non-locality, the Zero-Point Energy field and the Quantum Hologram that we will begin to develop an accurate understanding of consciousness.

“I theorize that there is a spectrum of consciousness available to human beings,” said Mitchell. “At one end is material consciousness. At the other end is what we call 'field' consciousness, where a person is at one with the universe, perceiving the universe.”

The revelation of this new world view of consciousness began in 1935 with the Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen experiment challenging an idea that had arisen out of the mathematical calculation of the time that there was a non-local quantum-interconnectedness to the universe. The idea was that entangled photons at a distance appeared to be conscious of the other and any action placed on one would be instantly balanced by the other independent of time and space.

Mathematical proof of this non-local interconnectedness was provided by physicist John Steward Bell in 1964 and experimental proof was provided in a number of experiments around the world in the early 1980s. It became a fact that our space time reality is non-local.

At the same time work done on rat brains in the 1950s by biologist Karl Lashley showed that trained rats could still runs a maze with huge sections of the brain removed which indicated that memory was not stored in any particular part of the brain. Lashley declared that there was no memory center in the brain.

In the 1960s Dr. Karl Pribram noticed that when brain-injured patients had large sections of their brain removed, their memories became hazy but they also did not suffer a loss of any specific memories. He also importantly pointed out that the brain was using fourier transform mathematics (conversion of images into wave forms and back again).

About the same time the hologram was discovered in 1964 by Dr. Dennis Gabor and he described the same two factors 1) like the brain that lost no memory when parts were cut out no information was lost when a hologram was cut into pieces. Each piece contained the information of the whole hologram, but like the human memories the image would become hazier as the pieces got smaller. 2) The hologram image like the human brain used fourier transform mathematics indicated a key common characteristic between the two systems.

In 1977 Pribram proposed that memories are not localized in any specific brain cells, but rather, memory seemed to be distribution throughout the whole brain just like the hologram. He described a holnomic model for the brain.

Next in 1992 Dr. Walter Schempp, a mathematician at the University of Siegen in Germany discovered the quantum hologram while studying functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging (fMRI). The quantum hologram stated “that the event history of all macro scale matter is continuously broadcast non-locally and is received by and interacts with other matter in its environment through a process of exchange of quantum information. This is an extension of the known process of quantum emission/absorption.”

The discovery placed the storage of all information in the zero point energy field. According to Dr. Edgar Mitchell,

It elevates information in physics to the same level of importance as energy itself – information if we define it broadly as patterns of energy, so the particular mathematical formulism that goes with the quantum holography is a group study. It also tells us that this information or energy is non-local which means that it is carried in the zero point energy field.

We can then start to say – we have heard the mystical tradition for example of the akashic record. Well this seems to be the mechanism of that which allows the akashic record to take place. It is nature memory system. I have written a paper called the Quantum Hologram – Nature’s Mind to suggest this ubiquitous application. It is a mechanism to carry the history of everything and it carries it out throughout nature, and the point is that it is recoverable through resonance. Resonance is exactly how we get information.”

The mind therefore is a hologram enfolded in a holographic universe, or as Dr. Mitchell’s Quantrek group describes it, “the totality of our physical and subjective experience can be thought of as a multimedia hologram resonant with ourselves and the zero-point field.”

Like a piece cut from a hologram our minds contain all the information in the universal hologram. The quality of that information, however, is dependent on much noise and interference there is from the left of the brain.

In the normal brain the left side is the dominant part of the brain responsible for language, hearing processing most of the duties of speaking. It's also in charge of carrying out logic and exact mathematical computations. It is the brain of the physical world that acts as a reducer and regulator producing only the consciousness necessary to survive in the physical world and blocking out the rest.

The right side is the creative side that handles spatial abilities, visual imagery, face recognition and music processing. Most artists and musicians have dominant right brains. Dr. Roger Lear, who became famous for performing alien implant removals, lived and worked in Hollywood. He maintained that the only common characteristics of people claiming the abduction experience is that they were all right brained.

The other analogy that can be used is the signal to noise ratio. The left brain is noise and the right brain is signal.

This can be seen when people are trying to meditate. People will complain that they cannot do it. Every time they try and find that quite place thoughts keep coming into their minds which they cannot stop. Those thoughts are the left rational brain creating noise in the experience which prevent a right brain inspirational experience.

In the same way abductees report that their experiences appear to have made them more psychic. This may be explainable by the fact they have interacted with aliens who are strongly telepathic (the key difference between aliens and humans is that aliens are telepathic).

Abductees report that when the alien talks to them telepathically the signal is clear with no noise. They know exactly what the alien is saying. Therefore, the aliens may be teaching the abductee, or altering their brain to receive the signal with the right side and block the noise from the left hemisphere.

Autistic people have damage in the left brain. Because of this the normally dominant left brain cannot produce the noise into the signal as it usually does. The more severe the damage the less noise there is. Consequently, the less noise there is the better the signal is.

That may be why Powell’s non-verbal autistic subjects have almost pure telepathy. The left brain is severely damaged as evidenced by the inability to speak, and there is nothing preventing the mind connection to the information stored in the zero point field.

This idea of brain damage creating a clear signal is also supported by some of the greatest psychics of the last century who reported corresponding brain injuries. Peter Hurkos, considered by some as the greatest psychic ever received his psychic abilities after falling off a ladder in 1941 and sustaining a head injury. Edgar Cayce, considered the best psychic in America, received his amazing abilities after being hit in the head with a baseball( and he made the claim that the psychic material he was providing was coming from the akashic field). Joe McMoneagle, the top remote viewer for the CIA work being done at the Stanford Research Institute suffered from brain seizures while in the army.

The results being reported by Powell of perfect telepathic hits on 18 and 19 digits numbers or the complete hit on a 162 digit number would indicate that the a condition exists where the brain is receiving all signal and no noise. The left brain has gone on a permanent coffee break.

In one interview Powell described that the one child was being taught to develop some verbal communication, and she wondered if this would affect the ability to do psi down the road. This is a valid consideration because activating and training the damaged left brain should in theory create noise in the signal. Therefore if the child was successfully brought back to full normal capability, theoretically the psi ability should disappear.

The non-verbal autistic savants are therefore the perfect candidates to demonstrate this telepathic ability that we all theoretically have but cannot demonstrate because of noise and interference from the left hemisphere dominance. The savants are also the perfect candidates because they are compulsive and very good at what they do. They will not be rattled in an experimental setting because they live in their own world of performance and have the rest of the world on mute. Because of this they do not suffer from stage fright.

Conclusion

It is evident that we are getting close to confirming the idea that the physical universe is only a small part of overall reality. Material reductionist scientists will fight the idea to the bitter end, but it appears that it may already be all over except for the crying.

The evidence is gathering quickly that we all have telepathic abilities but because of the wiring of our brains we are unable to pick up the signal. This idea is supported by the fact that experiencer’s report pure telepathy during their alien encounters but not in daily life.

The accumulating evidence in quantum physics, along with work like that being done with autistics by Powell, points to the idea that the brain is simply a computer interface between the quantum hologram and the physical world which we perceive with our senses.

The research done in past years with savants has helped to develop the idea of left brain/noise and right brain/signal. This new understanding of the brain has even allowed some scientists to perform supporting experiments in the laboratory.

Dr. Allan Snyder at the University of Sydney’s Center of Mind has done successful experiments which work off the idea that the damaged savant brain may actually be provide signal and important new ideas about reality. He refers to the fact that “less is sometimes more” when it comes to the compromised left hemisphere of the savant.

What Snyder did in his lab was inhibit the high level functioning left hemisphere. He did this by sending a series of electromagnetic pulses (transcranial magnetic stimulation) into the left frontal lobe. In 40% of test subjects this produced a strange savant like intelligence in drawing, proofreading, and mathematics. The savant like abilities were being caused by shutting part of the brain down just like brain damage does in the savants.[2] “We all have that information,” Snyder said, “but our brains are deliberately wired not to see it.”[3]

The days are coming when the general realization will come “wow, I guess consciousness is not all in the brain.” At that point the really exciting job of understanding the true nature of reality and the consciousness that underlies it will begin.

Postscript: Dr. Diane Powell will be presenting the results of her telepathic research with non-verbal savants at the 57th Annual Convention of the Parapsychological Association in Concord, California, Topic: “Evidence for Telepathic Communication in a Nonverbal Autistic Child.” Presentation will include tables of data, statistical analysis, and a brief video of a ten year old child with severe autism who appears to demonstrate this ability to a remarkable degree.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Oct 13, 2014 - 02:28pm PT
Back from clambering up some vertical stale cookie (Stein's Pillar) in remote (apparently - we were the only one's there) Oregon.

What is the next step in subjecting moi to the proposed experiential journey?

Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Oct 13, 2014 - 02:54pm PT
At the phone booth on Main Ave. dial 4325. Hang up.Walk two blocks.stop there.
...await further instructions
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Oct 13, 2014 - 03:35pm PT
I'm in the phone booth. Wait a minute. What's all this?

"For a good time call Ward..."

???!!!
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Oct 13, 2014 - 03:45pm PT
I saw that ...it read ...Ward T. Vash

I remember thinking at the time there must be a million people who share my first name...some as a clever alias. Like one would encounter in a bad film noir.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Oct 13, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
Institute of Noetic Sciences


At the nexus of the meditative and scientific, where experiential meets discursive. Where Ward and Largo could work together for a better world. Fellowships available.
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 13, 2014 - 08:30pm PT
Jgill:

And you? What kind of institute would you establish?
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Oct 13, 2014 - 10:18pm PT
^^^ Like GM once commented, one for which I would not qualify as a member.



;>)
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Oct 13, 2014 - 10:27pm PT
Reminds me of the story about Groucho Marx applying for membership in an exclusive Men's club that kept turning him down over the course of several years---he thought due to his being a Jew .
Finally the day came when the club eventually okayed his application. Groucho immediately turned them down and offered this as his reason:
" I refuse to belong to an organization that would have me as a member"
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Oct 13, 2014 - 10:38pm PT
The whoosh of flaring wings. A Stellar's Jay lords over my apple core. He opens his beak and the screech of a red tail hawk echoes through the ponderosa. He stabs the core, leaps into the quiet morning, and both are gone.

From "Tails of the Ochoco", by T. Vash, 2014
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Oct 13, 2014 - 11:37pm PT
jgill has an established institution
of phenomenal Boulder problems,
established in a style that has
rarely if ever been matched.
His humble demeanor and grace
in his response proves his
reluctant place that is at the
head of the table looking down
from the summit at all of you
miles below still in base camp.
continue to climb and you may
come close but he is king of
the mountain and with superior
acuity He will successfully defend
MikeL

Social climber
Seattle, WA
Oct 14, 2014 - 08:01am PT
So many quips, so little substance. People are clever, but superficial. There's no "there" here. Any substance vanishes like smoke with the next post. Communal ADHD? (I think this is why Largo continues to bear down on the same issue.) As conversation, the practice of clever quips is boring; but behaviorally, it's curious.

How is it that the characteristics of such events are not seen in other things in the world? That is: the mere impermanent manifestation / apparition of everything? What is this apparitional, ever-changing, indescribable, unbounded reality? Is there anything that remains, always, everywhere, and no where? Yes? No?

People might as well be getting hit in the forehead with a 2X4. (Hello? Wake up!)

Direct apprehension is a mystery to me. I don't get how "getting it" (noesis) happens in me or other people. No one I've read claims to know either. Reason, emotion, myth, unconscious understanding, etc. In the last analysis, understanding in any form seems to be intrinsically unexplainable.

It is a mystery to me how folks don't see any real mystery at all.
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