What is "Mind?"

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MH2

climber
Aug 7, 2014 - 03:36pm PT
Yes. Debate, discuss, participate in a dialogue, talk, shout, rant, mumble inchoately, think or don't: the judges base part of the score on laughs. In formal competitive debate the ultimate test is usually how many deaths will result from taking or not taking the action proposed. When I was on the debate team we were supposed to be ready to argue either side. Seemed wrong.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 7, 2014 - 08:18pm PT
One's awareness of the void must be neural information or there would be no way for those experiencing it to report it. No-thing cannot make one's fingers type. Neural information , of course, can.
MH2

climber
Aug 7, 2014 - 08:49pm PT
That's the ungrasdable part, and understand that your rational mind will NEVER get jiggy with it.
(26 Nov 2013)

Any commentary derived from the outside of meditation itself of little value to anyone
(25 Nov 2013)

Paradoxically, the all (no thing) is also nothing, or void, pure absence, which after a little bit of intentional eyes open meditation one can usually verify is the fundamental nature of mind. Pure awareness, void of content, the water of attention, absent all magnitude or quantity.
(26 Nov 2013)

Where you go wrong is in assuming objective function is all that there is.
(all the bloomin' time)

WBraun

climber
Aug 7, 2014 - 08:50pm PT
No-thing cannot make one's fingers type.

For a guy who has no clue what no-thing is then makes stupid statements proclaiming he knows.

This is the American way.

Just make up sh!t you know nothing about and claim you know.

Just because some other academic jackasses claim so and you heard it from them also.

The disiplic succession of stupidity is always alive and well in the popular world of western mental speculation (pure guessing) ........
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Aug 7, 2014 - 09:12pm PT
Meditating for staplers and prostitutes? Now who's dwelling in illusion?May all such ideas be reduced to nothingness (Jan)

Don't you wish . . .

Some climbers in the 1960s and 1970s drifted into drugs and esoteric religions, unaware that seven decades earlier one of the pioneers of British rock climbing and bouldering made similar choices, eventually becoming an international figure occasionally called "the most evil man alive." Aleister Crowley not only made his mark on longer rock climbs, but was joined by his close friend Oscar Eckenstein as he helped initiate "bouldering" as it was beginning to be called in the 1890s.

Aleister Crowley's Bouldering guide

Crowley's exploration of Tantric practices revealed just the scenario I described regarding Tibetan monks (minus Stapler)

Tantric Practices


OK, I admit this might all be BS, but it's fun to speculate.

Apparently, Crowley had not encountered Stapler.

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 7, 2014 - 09:17pm PT
ahem, non-academic jackass, puh-lease.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 7, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
Ass, Grass, or Ungraspable, nothing rides free of information.

And information makes no-thing a thing.

A dirty, dirty thing.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 8, 2014 - 06:31am PT
Per Graziano, our experience of awareness is information contained within an attention schema - a model, or cartoon, of what we attend to.

Attention is what our brain does - focusing on the strongest of various competing signals while suppressing the weaker ones. These signals can be top down (rainbow unicorns, the void) or bottom up (your partner telling you to stop thinking about rainbow unicorns void and belay, dammit).

Awareness is what we experience from such attending. It is separate 'cartoon' - an informational schema that describes attention.

Thus, the question of qualia/not qualia is irrelevant - it's all a schema, a cartoon, an informational model of our attention - rainbow unicorn or real spray painted horse with a horn gaff taped to its head.

This makes evolutionary sense - we have a well studied body schema (most critters do) that informs us of where our various body parts are and what is or isn't part of that. Our attention schema is a repurposed (and overlapping) version of neural circuitry that has been around for hundreds of millions of years.

You can't report what you're not aware of, so anything you do report is based on information from your attention schema. This doesn't preclude the possibility of existence for Atman nor Batman - but simply requires your experience of same to come from your attention schema.
zBrown

Ice climber
Bruj˛ de la Playa
Aug 8, 2014 - 07:51am PT
You can't report what you're not aware of, so anything you do report is based on information from your attention schema.

Don't tell Freud and Jung that.

...

May not be aware but it sure has a lot of power.

IBM stuffs 16 million neuron chips into binary bonce the 'scale of a frog brain'


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/08/07/ibm_synapse_chip/

Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 8, 2014 - 08:14am PT
Phase 5: Kill All The Humans
MH2

climber
Aug 8, 2014 - 08:22am PT
I could not find the Electronic Cortex Design Handbook, but this was sobering:

The amount of documentation for all ARM chips is daunting, especially for newcomers. The documentation for microcontrollers from past decades would easily be inclusive in a single document, but as chips have evolved so has the documentation grown. The total documentation is especially hard to grasp for all ARM chips since it consists of documents from the IC manufacturer and documents from CPU core vendor (ARM Holdings).


What is "Cortex-M0", etc.?
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 8, 2014 - 08:29am PT
What is needed is a simplified documentation schema - a cartoon of the actual documentation.

Or develop a receiver for the Universal Documentation Field that permeates the Universe.

Or just skip it. Who reads that crap anyway?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 8, 2014 - 10:38am PT

In contrast, TrueNorth architecture is a network of neurosynaptic cores. Each neurosynaptic core tightly integrates memory and computation thus significantly reducing energy and bandwidth challenges. All cores are distributed and operate in parallel. Each core computes in an event-driven fashion and different cores communicate in an event-driven fashion.

This is certainly fun stuff! Seems kinda like having multiple tabs open on your browser, only they can talk to each other.

Using the example of the Octopus, if each arm/leg has it's own "brain" the heads "main" brain doesnt each time have to tell the leg how to move. It just says Walk and the leg knows what to do.

Could it be the same with our body's? If the Kidney has its own brain my conscious brain need not waste energy regulating it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 8, 2014 - 12:29pm PT
RE: the IBM SyNAPSE Project (and all similar projects):

"It's a design trade-off: power versus complexity," says Gill Pratt,
who now runs the SyNAPSE program. By employing a huge number of
computational elements, each can be dedicated to a particular subtask.
The inputs change only rarely, avoiding the energy overhead for moving
charge and transporting data. "We believe this is the key reason" that
biological circuits are so much more efficient, Pratt says. "You can
only get away with it if size is free," which is effectively true with modern
integrated circuits.
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Aug 8, 2014 - 01:21pm PT
From the DARPA site:

Current computers are limited by the amount of power required to process large volumes of data. In contrast, biological neural systems, such as the brain, process large volumes of information in complex ways while consuming very little power. Power savings are achieved in neural systems by the sparse utilizations of hardware resources in time and space. Since many real-world problems are power limited and must process large volumes of data, neuromorphic computers have significant promise

This is a promising area for current and future AI research and development.
Essentially what is going on here is that computer science is drafting billions of years of biologic evolution as a research partner in the attempt to increase the efficiency of "big data" computers.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 8, 2014 - 01:25pm PT
The brain only needs 20watts to operate. Being a living organ, all those cells must be bringing energy to the ball game also?

But what happens to the energy exhaust from a triggered synapse? Be it electrical or chemical. With the electrical synapse, is there a spark or a flash of light? This is interesting because it is all happening inside a bag of water that is about 70% water 30% meat. Interestingly the brain is floating inside our skulls, not leaning on something like the stomach, intestines, etc.

There is around 10,000 synapse's every second. Could the active rate of these electrical bursts be the plateform for which The Conscious can read our thoughts like a menu and act accordingly?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Aug 8, 2014 - 02:08pm PT

Essentially what is going on here is that computer science is drafting billions of years of biologic evolution as a research partner in the attempt to increase the efficiency of computers.

Computers today are made out of "cooked", very dry elements. Cept for the battery.

Life in Nature has found a way of doing her work inside of bags of water.
The Liver is inside its own bag of water, The Heart inside its own bag, The brain inside its own bag, etc. and they are all inside one big bag called the body. Each one has a different % of water compared to mass. Each one's mass has a different % of elements. Each with its own information/memory per cell, maybe brain? Wouldn't the DNA of a Heart cell be different than a brain cell? Science is trying to "grow" new Livers, but you can't grow a Heart from a Liver cell, right?

Science has got to figure out how to get more water into computers.

Whales can communicate from Alaska to Chili by sound Waves under water.
Shouldn't we be able to send information through our sink water pipes?
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Aug 8, 2014 - 04:10pm PT
I would recommend you get a copy of The Way Life Works (Hoagland and Dodson) to learn more about how your body does its thing. It won't explain consciousness, but it'll explain a bunch of other stuff you've been wondering about.

snakefoot

climber
Nor Cal
Aug 8, 2014 - 04:12pm PT
^^^the cells all have the same DNA, just different expresions of them producing different proteins and such...
zBrown

Ice climber
Bruj˛ de la Playa
Aug 8, 2014 - 04:22pm PT
Stanford creates biological transistors, the final step towards computers inside living cells

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/152074-stanford-creates-biological-transistors-the-final-step-towards-computers-inside-living-cells


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