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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Feb 15, 2019 - 07:57pm PT
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You are all hypnotized by the dream matrix
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 15, 2019 - 08:13pm PT
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I don't like to say much about consciousness because I don't claim to know much about it
Then immediately start guessing .... lol.
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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Feb 15, 2019 - 08:23pm PT
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P=physicalist
NP=non-physicalist
P: "I think mind is something the brain does."
NP: "OK. Then tell me exactly how that happens."
P: "Well, I don't know yet but scientists are working on it."
NP: "Therefore mind is not something the brain does."
QED
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Feb 15, 2019 - 08:35pm PT
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It's all mind
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Feb 15, 2019 - 08:37pm PT
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Sometimes the living entity leaves the material body and returns after the anesthesia wears off.
Why would it do that?
Doesn't it deserve some time off like the rest [haha] of us?
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 15, 2019 - 08:53pm PT
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Open heart surgery the living entity leaves the material body because the heart is removed.
Paramatma takes care of the body during that time.
The gross materialists can't handle this knowledge.
Due to their violent behavior towards material nature.
The gross materialists slaughter everything in sight with their slaughterhouses.
They even slaughter the seeds which their idiot modern scientists weaponized by Monsanto.
They disrespect mother nature at every turn and thus their Karma is advanced knowledge to them is being checked.
All that violence creates karmic reactions for their perpetual wars.
They scoff at this due to their puffed up pride in their so-called modern science .....
All this is done because these fools have no real clue what life actually is.
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zBrown
Ice climber
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Feb 15, 2019 - 09:11pm PT
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Ok got it
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Feb 15, 2019 - 10:17pm PT
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Mh2, I too immediately thought about meditation and the experience of emptiness when listening to that podcast and the description of slowing down the brain's chatter.
Thanks so much for that reference DMT. Very interesting. I had not known about that site before. I'm now signed up for their newsletter.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Feb 16, 2019 - 05:29am PT
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And now an equally interesting article from the New York Times.
Scientists are Totally Rethinking Animal Cognition.
is a long article concerning animals and their consciousness, emphasizing its evolution from a single source though hundreds of millions of years.
The author also juxtaposes animal studies with the Jain philosophy of nonviolence to all life learned during a trip to India.
One glimpses a future world spiritual philosophy, if not religion.
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MikeL
Social climber
Southern Arizona
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Feb 16, 2019 - 06:59am PT
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MH2: . . . pragmatists who happily go ahead and use what works without needing to know how it works.
Yes, . . . as could be said about people who “use” the doctrines of various religions. I know this is the wrong thread for the comment, but I think the point seems valid. Whether it’s religion or scientific understanding, it’s the mind (in conjunction with the body and the rest of the environment) that comes up with both of those understandings (and more). Without having to bracket each “thing” in the conversation, one might simply note that mind appears to be constructing the understanding and the perception of the entities. IMO, that’s worth taking to heart. Apparently I cannot say often enough how that observation or recognition seems meaningful. Everything is known through mind, and mind is involved in everything perceivable. Is there nothing to be made of that? (As Tom says. . . it’s all mind.)
Whether sleep or anesthesia or any sense of unconsciousness, if we awake to blatant self-awareness, we do not think we were just born. We have some sense of awareness, even if it is not the type that we are most familiar with.
There are folks who reportedly study and train themselves in non-standard forms of awareness: i.e., lucid dreaming, exploring bardos, past reincarnations, intuition (artistic), non-lucid dreaming, dreaming while awake, pristine awareness or so-called “emptiness,” split or multiple personalities, depth psychology, and so forth. Most all of these are not amenable to objective documentation, unfortunately. Luckily, one can investigate those notions by him or herself personally.
In the last analysis, I’d say, what one finds is simply that there are different states of mind. It's like automobiles: one should be hesitant to make definitions based upon this or that model or color alone.
You bet. Anesthesia and its effects are kinda interesting. Model and color?
Ed: . . . the ability to follow large numbers of atoms around, millions or even billions, provides a means of resolving their complexity providing a link to the simplicity.
Perhaps. Such approaches tend to negate or cancel-out outliers. There are issues, as you know, with that approach. It might strip-out complexity from phenomena. Are there really normal distributions in any population, or do those emerge from regressions to means?
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 16, 2019 - 08:21am PT
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It's all mind
It's intelligence that shapes the mind and higher it's consciousness that shapes intelligence.
So ultimately consciousness IS the root and the living entity itself embodied in material body as the spiritual soul which can not be measured by the gross materialist instruments.
But !!!
It can be measured by all living beings thru their own souls ......
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Feb 16, 2019 - 08:31am PT
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Are there really normal distributions in any population...
actually these are not normal distributions, necessarily, for the atoms we talking Maxwell-Boltzmann distributions in velocity, which is a well motivated part of the theory. But the point is that the distributions are known and measurable.
And the outliers aren't ignored, but their numbers, relative to the total number, are a part of the criteria that allows such an analysis to be done. Otherwise the fluctuations start to become important and additional analysis required to understand the systems.
Defaulting to a normal distributions invoking "regression to the mean" isn't a theory, unless you have a good motivation to claim your distributions are normal.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 16, 2019 - 09:48am PT
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For many scientists, the resonant mystery is no longer which animals are conscious, but which are not.
All animals and all living things are conscious.
If they are not conscious (life) then it's dead matter.
The gross materialists study dead matter thinking it's life.
It's like studying the coat and not the person in the coat.
The coat is animated due to the presence of the living entity.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Feb 16, 2019 - 10:14am PT
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In line with Werner's reasoning, everything is spiritual consciousness manifesting infinite flavors of awareness. Intelligent thought is opinionated. The energetic field we call mind manifests limited forms of opinionated intelligent thought into what we perceive as our local reality. This local reality thought matrix was originally engineered as a paradise. However it has been hijacked by cosmic parasites i call the controllers, as a spiritual trap for their purpose of harvesting certain specialized frequencies of spiritual energy. Humanity's major challenge is expanding personal levels of awareness to expand beyond this trap. Scientists and mathematicians have been enlisted by the controllers to continually creatively increase the complexities of this already very complex trap. We are not the only civilisation infested by these cosmic parasites and our struggles are being closely monitored by many others encouraging us to success.
Symbolic languages are not adequate to the challenge and tend to reinforce entrapment. ... as into describing a sunset or cloud pattern or field of wild flowers or waterfalls ...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Feb 16, 2019 - 10:35am PT
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I'm not one for paranoia and conspiracy theories. I also always try to fight back against laying the blame anywhere beyond the human race. Thus, I prefer the Indian view that all of this is lila, God's play, and that we are just actors on a stage until we wake up. Sometimes we are actors in a drama, sometimes in a comedy, and mostly we don't know where we are.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Feb 16, 2019 - 10:57am PT
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As usual, i agree with Jan, and our viewpoints are consistent
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Feb 16, 2019 - 12:57pm PT
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Great Find!
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Cascade Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Feb 16, 2019 - 04:34pm PT
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So if you are entirely healthy and free of unpleasant sensations and restrictions and fully at peace with yourself and the world, then all of this discussion is simply unconcerning entertainment with no red pill prescription indicated
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Feb 17, 2019 - 03:34am PT
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Relative to that article, it's always interesting to see science set in other cultures and in time both present and ancient and that some aren't so ridiculously anthropocentric.
I've been positing all along that life is behavior and you can see consciousness emerge both over both evolutionary time and within extant species - that once behavior extends beyond the instinctual, you're into varying degrees of consciousness.
In line with Werner's reasoning, everything is spiritual consciousness manifesting infinite flavors of awareness. Intelligent thought is opinionated. The energetic field we call mind manifests limited forms of opinionated intelligent thought into what we perceive as our local reality. This local reality thought matrix was originally engineered as a paradise. However it has been hijacked by cosmic parasites i call the controllers, as a spiritual trap for their purpose of harvesting certain specialized frequencies of spiritual energy. Humanity's major challenge is expanding personal levels of awareness to expand beyond this trap. Scientists and mathematicians have been enlisted by the controllers to continually creatively increase the complexities of this already very complex trap. We are not the only civilisation infested by these cosmic parasites and our struggles are being closely monitored by many others encouraging us to success.
I think this rates an incredulously serious what the f*#k??? That's either some interesting sci-fi or a sanity check is in order.
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