What is "Mind?"

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jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 5, 2018 - 11:34am PT
"The Holographic Universe is a landmark work whose exciting conclusions continue to be proven true by today's most advanced physics, cosmology, and string theory." (Amazon)

?????


The author, a horror fiction writer and proponent of the mystical, died of leukemia at the age of 38.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Apr 5, 2018 - 11:53am PT
Classical and Quantum Gravity Blog: Why We Built The Holometer

MIT Press: Computational Psychiatry

jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 5, 2018 - 12:05pm PT
^^^ An excellent trend. I look forward to Computational Zen Meditation.

It's bound to happen.
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2018 - 12:27pm PT
The world as explored through physics and nature seems much more appealing than the worlds imagined through, "What if...?" or, "Could be..."


I agree, that's why most subjective adventures start with the motto: Shut up and stop thinking (or asking What if and Could be questions).

What's more, the concept of a holographic universe is not reserved to sci fi writers. Check out the long out of date ideas of Davis Bohm, and how they are finding traction by younger physicists these days. But still Bohm's holographic universe is out at the fringe. Says one physicist:

“After decades and decades, people are taking Bohmian mechanics a little bit more seriously,” he says. “There was a time when you couldn’t even talk about it because it was heretical. It probably still is the kiss of death for a physics career to be actually working on Bohm, but maybe that’s changing.”

I spent a week with Bohm during grade school at Claremont in the early 1980s. Interesting fellow but a poor communicator.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 5, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
I spent a week with Bohm during grade school . . .


No wonder you thought he was a poor communicator.

;>)
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
Bohm talked in huge sweeping arcs and would drift point to point interlarding his drift with mystical quotes, equations, and funky examples of holograms and things illustrating his implicate order, never breaking down his grad ideas into intelligible portions we could start to piece together into some coherent whole. Someone needed to stop him at every bend and have him dial a given point but nobody did. He simply never worked on his presentation.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Apr 5, 2018 - 11:31pm PT
I hesitate to ask: Is presentation half of it?

I remember when I would read the journals, and a good article was one that did more than present the data and the analysis. There needed to be something of the unexpected, and in the best articles, there was also the “song.” Great writing sings.

With that thought in mind, one might review powerful ideas and their presentation as more than content, “things,” conceptualizations. Visualization, imagination, and perhaps even outright creativity (maybe “speculation”) might be what captures our attention and hence mind.

Data, plain and simple, lies flat on a piece of paper (ala, Strunk and White). We are suckers for a good story artfully written. What comes alive for us is what we believe in.
Dingus Milktoast

Trad climber
Minister of Moderation, Fatcrackistan
Apr 6, 2018 - 05:40am PT
We communicate with stories. Those who tell the best stories communicate the best.

Simply quoting other great writers doesn't make the person doing the quoting a good communicator; quite the contrary.

DMT
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2018 - 09:48am PT
Mike, I didn't mean "presentation" in terms of snazy clothes. I meant having enough clarity per your own ideas that they can be presented so people can understand them, or at least the basic tenets. A word salad and rush of ideas, as if discharged from a blunderbus, is hard to hang with.
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Apr 7, 2018 - 09:53am PT
My thought about presentation was meant to be conflated with a notion that content is an indisputable, unchanging, and an independent thing.

It seems to me that when we write, define, or conceptualize a thing, what we are doing is we are giving one view, one perspective, of what we see. I’ve read that when authors commend another author, they say they appreciate his or her decisions that he or she has made in their writing. Hence, to my way of thinking, every writing is an imaginative task where one highlights this and ignores that. I’ve seen that science (and me) do it, and I see that creative artistic talent does it.

“Well, a (given) metric / concept is a metric / concept. Once I’ve defined them, we can be sure that’s what we’re looking at in each and every time.”

Whoa. Not so fast. The initial definition is a creative task, the presentation is loaded with them as well, and the “reading” of those scribbly little marks on the page is also a creative task. Some of us are not up to understanding those creative tasks. We don’t see them as creative.

Werner regularly reminds us of the ubiquity of projection. I’d say it’s something that can’t be brought to mind enough. (I’m doing it now.)

Yes, I have great admiration for a phrase well-turned. You’ve provided pages and pages of them, and they bring new perspectives of things I thought I fully knew.

To my mind these days, everything looks like a creative act. That seeing seems to arise the more I am present.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 7, 2018 - 03:28pm PT
What happens when many people engage in a group or hive-mind project? Some of you are familiar with what follows, a social-media experiment on reddit that took place last April. Redditors were allowed to change the color of a single pixel on a 1,000 X 1,000 pixel screen once every 5 minutes or so. Groups organized quickly and set about displaying their image or disrupting other images. After 72 hours the project terminated. Here is a time-lapse view of what occurred:

Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2018 - 04:28pm PT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYDfJ_Bo1XA

Looks like Pop has a hard time wrapping his MIND around this, the Senior races at the Isle of Man TT Motorcycle race, dubbed "The Most Dangerous Race in the World." 100 people have perished on the course since 1990. Top speeds approach 200 MPH.
Stellarin

Sport climber
USA
Apr 9, 2018 - 01:24pm PT
I'm also studying this topic now. I really would like to know, can someone verify that with this pills (https://nootropicboost.com) you can get memory improvement, clear mind and become more "fresh"? I heard many positive feedbacks but I'm still thinking, should I try these nootropics or not...
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 9, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
The reputable (?) studies don't show improvement for a normal person. Maybe they would work for you. Buy a bottle and try them (unless you're short on cash).



That seeing seems to arise the more I am present


???
MikeL

Social climber
Southern Arizona
Apr 9, 2018 - 08:59pm PT
Stellarin,

Pills seem to come with all sorts of unintended consequences. Treat your body well, listen to it, and take your kitchen to be a sacred place of sacrifice. Get good sleep. Try a little meditation for no other reason but to stop your world now and then. Read regularly and carefully. Memory improvement, a clear mind, and a fresher sense of awareness can likely all be yours if that’s what you really want. I should think that anyone could do it naturally. (Right now I’m trying to think of a single pill that really ever did what it said it was going to. Oh, yeah, . . . ibuprofen.)


Jogill:

Now and then, things show up or look to me to be intrinsically creative acts. ("Acts” implies actors.) That view / vision / kind of seeing arises in my consciousness the more I am here and now. That is: psychologically present (physically involved, emotionally connected, cognitively vigilant), authentic (fully expressing feelings and thoughts), and connected, close and affectionate, and engaged in fulfilling my roles. I need to be attentive, connected, integrated ("I am multitudes"), and focused on the task and role at hand.

(I'm sort of shooting for this; but of course, . . . well, you know what I'm going to say.)
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 9, 2018 - 09:09pm PT
OK. Thanks
MH2

Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
Apr 9, 2018 - 10:55pm PT
Now and then, things show up or look to me to be intrinsically creative acts. ("Acts” implies actors.) That view / vision / kind of seeing arises in my consciousness the more I am here and now. That is: psychologically present (physically involved, emotionally connected, cognitively vigilant), authentic (fully expressing feelings and thoughts), and connected, close and affectionate, and engaged in fulfilling my roles. I need to be attentive, connected, integrated ("I am multitudes"), and focused on the task and role at hand.


I know what you mean. I just made a sandwich.
jogill

climber
Colorado
Apr 10, 2018 - 11:55am PT
^^^ I know what you mean. The other day when making a sandwich and letting my mind wander I put mustard on the bread instead of mayonnaise - a creative act, but one having dire consequences.
eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Apr 10, 2018 - 03:43pm PT
^^^^^^^ You know, I've stopped posting to threads like this because I came to the realization that I really don't know sh#t. On the other hand, I DO know a thing or two about sandwiches (not that I want to brag).
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Apr 11, 2018 - 08:05am PT
Sandwiches, finally something I feel qualified to discuss. I bet that I have made more sammies than anyone on this thread. This makes me real smart, and hungry.
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