Thank You Republicans (OT)

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Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Aug 9, 2011 - 12:36pm PT
Seems like we have the Republicans to thank, and the Democrats, and ourselves. We, collectively, elected Bush 43, and twice no less. We, collectively, want more goods and services from the government than we want to pay for. Our politicians and the titans of Wall Street have lied to us and sold us a bunch of BS, and we believed all of it it because we wanted to.

We've gotten the government, and the debt, and the economy we deserve.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Aug 9, 2011 - 12:39pm PT
Patrick: But to me, it is even larger. I have lost over $35,000 (on paper) the past ten days.

Quit watering down your soup with tears. So you are out 35k on paper, which is about two months salary for most people I know. BFD. See those boot straps down there? Grab 'em and pull. Besides, you only had the $$$ on paper too. It is not like a rat got into your retirement mattress and started mowing the greenery.
jstan

climber
Aug 9, 2011 - 12:48pm PT
Please to note Locker has threatened only Jeff's donut supply. No mention has been made of the much more important twinkie availability.




http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml
Everyone needs to read the link HFCS posted.

It makes clear what is behind both the writings of the right wing droids, and their self evident glee.

The development of this technology and the education of droids in it cost money, much money that was supplied by forces intending to

make more money.


A recent LA Times article suggests there is hope however. The corporations are beginning to think our lowered ability to pay now makes it more profitable to manipulate people in other nations.

There are chickens that can be put in cages outside of the US.



The wonders of capitalism.






http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-consumers-overseas-20110808,0,6537651.story

For years, U.S. companies went off shore to get cheaper labor and lower manufacturing costs for products to be sold to Americans. Now, as the nation's economy stalls and personal incomes stagnate, they see consumers in Asia and Latin America as offering brighter prospects for future sales and profits.

In effect, as many corporate executives look ahead, the United States has a diminishing place in their thinking.

Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Aug 9, 2011 - 12:49pm PT
A downgrade’s GOP fingerprints

Eugene Robinson,
Published: August 8

The so-called analysts at Standard & Poor’s may not be the most reliable bunch, but there was one very good reason for them to downgrade U.S. debt: Republicans in Congress made a credible threat to force a default on our obligations.

This isn’t the rationale that S&P gave, but it’s the only one that makes sense. Like a lucky college student who partied the night before an exam, the ratings agency used flawed logic and faulty arithmetic to somehow come up with the right answer. No, life isn’t always fair.

And no, I can’t join the “we’re all at fault” chorus. Absent the threat of willful default, a downgrade would be unjustified and absurd. And history will note that it was House Republicans who issued that threat.

There is no plausible scenario under which the United States would be unable to service its debt. If political gridlock were to persist, our government would be able to pay bondholders with a combination of tax revenue and funds raised by selling more Treasury bills. And in the final analysis, as Alan Greenspan noted Sunday on “Meet the Press,” the United States “can pay any debt it has because we can always print money to do that.”

I know this kind of talk is horrifying to Ron Paul and others who believe we should be walking around with our pockets full of doubloons, but most of us find paper money more convenient.

What happened this summer is that Republicans in the House, using the Tea Party freshmen as a battering ram, threatened to compel a default. More accurately, they demanded big budget cuts as the price of raising the debt ceiling. If the Senate and President Obama did not comply, the Treasury’s access to capital through borrowing would have been cut off.

The government’s cash flow would have been slashed by 40 percent, leaving not nearly enough to fund essential operations, pay entitlements and also service the debt. Somebody was going to get stiffed. Paying interest to bondholders could have been given priority over competing obligations such as salaries for our people in military service and Social Security checks for retirees. But for how long?

Ultimately, the GOP got its spending cuts — some of them, at least — and the debt ceiling was raised. But the possibility of default, never before more than a fantasy, had been made real. There’s no way to un-ring that bell. This new uncertainty, it seems to me, is enough to justify lowering the credit rating of our long-term debt from AAA to AA-plus.

S&P, however, gave a host of largely bogus reasons for its action. Why am I not surprised? This is a firm that aided and abetted the subprime crisis — and the devastating financial meltdown that ensued — by giving no-risk ratings to dodgy securities based on mortgages that should never have been written. The firm’s credibility is spent, as is that of the other ratings agencies, Moody’s and Fitch.

Initially, S&P pinned the downgrade on the sheer size and weight of the mounting federal debt. Treasury officials noticed that S&P had made an error in its calculations, overstating the debt burden by a whopping $2 trillion. This discovery negated the ratings firm’s rationale — so it simply invented another.

Instead of basing its argument on economics, S&P made an ill-advised foray into political analysis. In its “revised base case scenario,” the firm assumed that all the Bush tax cuts will remain in place past their scheduled expiration at the end of next year — even for households making more than $250,000 a year. But Obama vows not to let this happen, and S&P apparently fails to understand that after the election he will be in the strongest possible position to stand firm.

“A new political consensus might (or might not) emerge after the 2012 elections,” S&P noted. Gee, that’s helpful.

The ratings agency should have focused instead on the one development that has direct bearing on our creditworthiness: the GOP threat to force a default. House Majority Leader Eric Cantor should never have planned to use the debt ceiling vote as “leverage.” Obama should have made clear from the start that if necessary he would take unilateral action, based on the 14th Amendment, to ensure there could never be a default. And yes, progressive Democrats who voted against the final debt-ceiling bill should be ashamed.

It’s pretty simple: If you threaten not to pay your bills, people will — and should — take you seriously.

John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Aug 9, 2011 - 12:52pm PT
S & P is controlled by Republicans. Republicans are out to destroy America so they can feed on the carcass.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2011 - 12:54pm PT
Russ, I am not watering down anything, crying tears or looking for comfort, I am just pissed off. Period. And I wondered how long it would take somebody to post what you did.

Look it dude, mine are not tears, they are f*cking anger. And then to have people like to you, apparently, try to stick up for the politicos, just takes the cake.

Or did I read your post incorrectly?
apogee

climber
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:01pm PT
Losing $35K 'on paper' when you have a mid-6 digit yearly income is a bummer, but not much more.

When your income is like the majority of middle-lower class America, whether it's on paper or not, it hurts like hell.

The fecked up thing is that most people who lose out big on those investments have been practicing exactly what the contemporary economic system told us to do: work hard, buy a home, and invest in the stock market to supplement your SS. Ironically, while the Repugs were the loudest about this financial strategy, they've been working just as hard to support the ability of banks & corporations to take that opportunity away.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:05pm PT
Dr. F, it's not just the Republicans. For example 82 dem members of the house and 73 dem members of the senate voted for the idiotic Iraq War Resolution in October of 2002. If they had not done so we would have saved 4 trillion dollars and more importantly countless lives.

Also dems voted with republicans, and dem Pres Bill Clinton signed into law the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999, which is directly responsible for the 2008 financial meltdown and is also in large part responsible for the debt and dismal economy we have today.

Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 9, 2011 - 01:20pm PT
Apogee, I wish I had a mid-six figure income, but I earned my money through journalism (which doesn't pay well) and other. Now I am a full-time carer, trying to get some work from home while I supervise and take care of Jennie. It ain't easy (toughest thing I have ever done, being a carer). So yeah, that loss hurt. Can I wait for the market to come back? Not when I am relying on what I have, I may have to sell the rest soon and take a big hit. And I am not happy about that.

Would any poster on this thread be happy if they were in the same position? I think not.

But some posters here may think that I am crying in my beer, if only.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:47pm PT
Patrick, those of us without reading comprehension difficulties understand your anger and feel for you. Don't let the fish get to you. He is treated like a sacred cow here and thinks his sh#t don't stink. Actually he is a callous little prick. If, as he says, most of his friends are making $17,000.00 a month (over $200,000.00 a year) that explains why he doesn't give a sh#t about the real people desperately trying to get by. I respect the struggles you are facing as a carer and commend your effort.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:49pm PT
It's the dems dragging there ass on spending cuts,

Priceless idiocy from the Couchmaster right there. Let's recap, shall we? Prez proposes $3 in cuts for each $1 in revenue and a willingness to cut Dem sacred cows including medicare. GOP says "no new revenue, period!". S&P downgrades US debt SPECIFICALLY citing the GOP not allowing raised revenue.

And your takeaway from that is "dems dragging ass on spending cuts". Unreal.
bhilden

Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:53pm PT
The problem isn't specific to one political party. The problem is that no one wants to compromise any more. It is either all or nothing and these days we are getting way too much nothing. So sad.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
Jstan wrote,

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/27_lakoff.shtml
Everyone needs to read the link HFCS posted.

It makes clear what is behind both the writings of the right wing droids, and their self evident glee.

The development of this technology and the education of droids in it cost money, much money that was supplied by forces intending to

make more money.


Yep, everyone needs to read this guy. He has a lot of good insights. The right is so well programmed that it doesn't seem to matter what the facts are. This guy explains it well and provides some idea of how liberals need to proceed.
apogee

climber
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:55pm PT
To be clear, I'm not saying the Dems policies are the best way to go- Obama's strategy clearly has been ineffective- I'm just clear that the Republican 'alternatives' are so far out there, and their track record is so poor, that you'd have to be either one of the 1% earners, or completely ideologically blinded, in order to go their direction.

Once again, we are stuck with the choice of which pile of sh#t tastes better than the other. The difference is that this time, the conditions and what's at stake seems waaaaaaaay more significant.
John Moosie

climber
Beautiful California
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:58pm PT
The problem isn't specific to one political party. The problem is that no one wants to compromise any more. It is either all or nothing and these days we are getting way too much nothing. So sad.

This isn't true. Obama offered multiple compromises. The left is just upset because even though he offered compromises, he is still being blamed for every problem america has right now. Just read Fattrads posts for examples of that. We are tired of the bullshit coming out of the rights mouth.
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Aug 9, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
It's getting Hairy Boehner.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb-Bpn5O-e0&feature=youtu.be
imnotclever

Sport climber
Aug 9, 2011 - 02:00pm PT
So you are out 35k on paper, which is about two months salary for most people I know. BFD.

Most people you know make $210,000 per year? Hawking soft goods is that lucrative?
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Aug 9, 2011 - 02:03pm PT
Most of his friends make over $200,000 a year? Sounds Fishy.

No wonder he morphed from a dirt bag to a tea bag.





Reading comprehension, compassion and math are not his strong suits.
Russ Walling

Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
Aug 9, 2011 - 03:32pm PT
Quoted for prickdom:
Philo: Don't let the fish get to you. He is treated like a sacred cow here and thinks his sh#t don't stink. Actually he is a callous little prick. If, as he says, most of his friends are making $17,000.00 a month (over $200,000.00 a year) that explains why he doesn't give a sh#t about the real people desperately trying to get by. I respect the struggles you are facing as a carer and commend your effort.

Most of his friends make over $200,000 a year? Sounds Fishy.
No wonder he morphed from a dirt bag to a tea bag.
Reading comprehension, compassion and math are not his strong suits


Bad day Philo? Make any calls to the FBI lately?
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Aug 9, 2011 - 03:33pm PT




Dude a person could be holding their dying child and you would find a way to mock them. Really class act.
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