REI shirks responsibility & appeals Monika Johnson case

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Messages 421 - 440 of total 442 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 22, 2013 - 11:27am PT
I get the point you are trying to make but while Camalots are made in China they are still made by Black Diamond by BD employees in a factory BD owns. BD doesn't contract out the manufacturing process for hardware. BD wants to own the entire process to avoid contractors that cut corners, steal intellectual property, or sell lower quality/defective units on the black market (didn't that happen with Petzl?).

If REI management took over Black Diamond, they could just say that it was manufactured by a different company BD Asia, not BD America, and you have to go to China and sue BD Asia.

Once you decide to shirk responsibility for your products, there's no end of excuses.

If REI ever puts out their own climbing gear again, don't buy it. Go with BD or something instead.

Does anyone else remember how much REI's gold gate carabiners sucked?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 22, 2013 - 11:51am PT
^^^Incorrect.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 22, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
^^^scaredtodeath is confused.
Friedo

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
May 22, 2013 - 12:24pm PT
I enjoy looking around REI from time to time, but what this thread is suggesting is that you shouldn't buy any gear from REI that you would be entrusting your life to. (i.e. climbing gear!!!)
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 22, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
Um, I could regurgitate some first year torts or civil procedure but don't have time. The short answer is companies can't shirk liability for their products and any entity in the chain can be sued. If the company is foreign and does biz in your state (i.e. puts its products in the stream of commerce) then you'd have federal diversity jurisdiction. No need to go to Asia.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
May 22, 2013 - 12:27pm PT
I'm just reading this for the first time but from the OP I gather that this girl's bike frame broke while she was riding on the sidewalk at 5mph, she hit her head on the pavement and had some kind of head trauma. Did she die from the injury? The first article doesnt mention it. To me this seems incredibly trivial, I would never take a case like this. Its not trivial that someone (may have) died, but the case seems to be. Someone is suing the Yosemite concession owner that manages Curry Village because she got Hanta Virus. That's a b.s. case too.
mynameismud

climber
backseat
May 22, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
I have no problem boycotting REI
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
May 22, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
^^^
Tell a friend...
10b4me

Ice climber
Soon 2B Arizona
May 22, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
^^^what he said
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 22, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
Slightly amazed by Dane's latest pic there. Aluminum frame broke before the carbonfiber fork. I'm surprised to see failure of the frame tubing itself. Probably undersized the tubing relative to the wall thickness or got a bad batch of tubing.
Anastasia

climber
Home
May 22, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
All I know is... The REI store I worked at many years ago didn't know it's head from the rear. I had three store managers in less than six months. I pissed one of them off for keeping the store open and extra 15 minutes to sell over a 2,000 dollars worth of gear. (I was told next time I was to make them leave.) Plus I was told I wasn't dedicated enough since my priorities was my college classes, "not them." :) They were right on that!

All I can say is as an ex-worker, I wasn't treated well. Now Real Cheap Sports, now that is a great store. I was treated very well and I will never forget that. Tim is a great guy and he won't carry anything in the store without fully backing it up. Plus, he has a really nice climbing gear collection.
RDB

Social climber
wa
May 22, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
"To me this seems incredibly trivial, I would never take a case like this."

If you're an attorney you're an extremely bad example I suspect.

If you are a human being you are a piss poor example of one.

"Trivial?" Try eating through a straw for a year or so and get back to me on what you think is "trivial".

Full program is up from last night:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/REI-defends-reputation-despite-claims-of-broken-bikes-and-injured-riders-208380251.html#comments
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 22, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
Um, I could regurgitate some first year torts or civil procedure but don't have time. The short answer is companies can't shirk liability for their products and any entity in the chain can be sued. If the company is foreign and does biz in your state (i.e. puts its products in the stream of commerce) then you'd have federal diversity jurisdiction. No need to go to Asia.

scaredtodeath, like I said you are confused. If you are going to succeed as a lawyer you will need to sharpen your reading and analytic skills.

I was giving examples how absurd their defenses are. I never said these were winning arguments. REI has a history of making stupid losing arguments. That's the whole point.

Also, I don't know what kind of grade you got in first year torts, but a parent company can avoid being liable for negligence of its subsidiaries. It depends on the circumstances and the jurisdictions.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
May 22, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
If you're an attorney you're an extremely bad example I suspect.

If you are a human being you are a piss poor example of one.

Agreed, there's something wrong with anyone who thinks that permanent brain damage is "incredibly trivial."

The real issue was if it was REI's fault. They lost on that issue.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 22, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
Um, I could regurgitate some first year torts or civil procedure but don't have time. The short answer is companies can't shirk liability for their products and any entity in the chain can be sued. If the company is foreign and does biz in your state (i.e. puts its products in the stream of commerce) then you'd have federal diversity jurisdiction. No need to go to Asia.

I think the above is probably right in its conclusion with respect to the hypothetical BD example, but not for the reasons written above, and it may not be generally correct.

There would be federal diversity jurisdiction against an Asian manufacturer, but that just means you can proceed in federal, rather than state, court. You still need to establish personal jurisdiction over a defendant (the Asian manufacturer).
Whether you can get personal jurisdiction in the US over an Asian entity that does no business in the US isn't an obvious question (at least not to me), and in any event the answer isn't determined by diversity.

I don't think REI would get any traction in the hypothetical BD example because the entities are commonly controlled, but that's just semi-informed speculation on my part.
10b4me

Ice climber
Soon 2B Arizona
May 22, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
All I know is... The REI store I worked at many years ago didn't know it's head from the rear.
All I can say is as an ex-worker, I wasn't treated well.

ditto
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
May 22, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
"The real issue was if it was REI's fault."

Actually, thats not the issue, but carry-on. Hi GC!
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 22, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
I've litigated against foreign entities and individuals in federal and state court.

If they make stuff that purposefully ends up in the U.S. a court will exercise jurisdiction. Obviously there are matters of degree, but that is not a supertopo discussion.

Service is done per the Hague convention.



blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
May 22, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
I've litigated against foreign entities and individuals in federal court.

If they make stuff that purposefully ends up in the U.S. a district court will exercise jurisdiction. Obviously there are matters of degree, but that is not a supertopo discussion.

Service is done per the Hague convention.

Service, like federal diversity, is a different issue from personal jurisdiction. (And service can only be done via Hague convention if the defendant's country is a treaty member.)
You seem to think the "stream of commerce" theory is sufficient for personal jurisdiction. Some courts may agree, but that's far from settled law.
Relatively recent Supreme Court cases have significantly curtailed the "stream of commerce" theory--perhaps your case(es) preceded those cases.

ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
May 22, 2013 - 05:48pm PT
It depends on the stream... I need to get back to work.

edit: I should have said personal jurisdiction instead of diversity upthread. You get what you pay for herein!
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