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Mary Moser
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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It seems Red Rocks is the scene of so many accidents/blunders/epics, both would-be and those that actually happened. My husband and I have a 4-day trip planned in mid-April and I'm almost dreading it. In 15 years we've never had an accident, but Red Rocks just somehow seems cursed these days. Too many folks doing all the wrong things and potentially causing harm to themselves and/or others. Hmmmm...maybe we should change our venue.
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BrianH
Trad climber
santa fe
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Thank you for posting.
I'm not convinced that rapping an unknown rap route in the dark is totally dangerous. Sometimes you have no choice. You just have to slow down. It sucks a little.
But along with all the other things you mentioned, it certainly was a factor for their Unpleasant Experience.
Mary, you only hear about the bad things, people climb there all the time with no epics. They key is an early start so you're above everybody else, and maybe foregoing some of the easier ultra-mega classics.
mountainproject.com has a great list of less popular climbs for their RR section.
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Mrk9182
Sport climber
iowa
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Had a mini epic out on solar slab myself earlier this year. We were doing SS for the first time and wanted to do the painted bowl descent. Long story short after geting stuck behind 2 slower groups we ended up getting back to our car at 11:00pm. I wish i brought my brighter/heavier headlamp.
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Smeagol
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sounds like a terrible experience. I'm glad everyone survived. We had something similar happen to us a few weeks ago on Olive Oil. I took some friends out for an easy 5 pitchs and it ended up taking 8 hours to get up it while we waited for two snail parties ahead of us. Spent an average of 1-2 hours at each belay. Topped out right at sunset. A few days later we encountered the same situation on "myster z". Fed up, we simuled past everyone and ran past them on the slabs. I'm pretty much done climbing anything "classic" below 5.10 in Red Rocks now, it's an almost guaranteed flailfest.
Solar slab seems to be a magnet for unfortunate incidents too. Anyone remember this from last year?
http://www.examiner.com/climbing-in-national/climber-falls-while-climbing-solar-slab-at-red-rock-canyon
Pretty tragic.
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Thanks for the write up.
Seems to me there were some other options available at a few spots. When you have several parties with lots of ropes, trying to get down one rap route, an experienced person can rap down with extra ropes and set all the rappels. That way as soon as one person finishes one rap, they immediately clip into the next rope and continue down. If one person is particularly timid and slow, you can lower them from station to station. You set the speed and they only have to pay attention to where they put their feet.
You shouldn't be a drill sergeant to take the lead in these situations. If you are calm, matter of fact and knowledgeable, people are usually glad for your help.
We don't have to take responsibility for the other people on a mountain, but if you had somehow convinced the benighted couple to retreat earlier, you would not have been worried about them. Would have saved the SAR some trouble. If you could have set up a team descent with the slow ladies, you would have gotten them moving much faster, much earlier and all would have been down sooner, with much less frustration and they would have bought you dinner. Or alternatively if they were unappreciative and resistant, you could have blasted past them sooner and been happy to leave them in the cold, wet dark.
I can totally relate to being under dressed at times. I think, "Dang, why am I out here without some extra gear? I know better than this!"
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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It's nicer to learn from the mistakes of others. We all get to make some mistakes, too. The easier climbs will always have their share of epics as people with lesser skills will be there receiving their education.
I'll keep my mouth shut about hypothermia. It has bitten me a couple of times. It can come when you are completely unprepared. It can also come when you are prepared and no one expects it. Recognize the signs and take charge. Folks blinded by ego or imparied from emerging medical conditions may not recognize the extent of trouble they are facing. I can be very obnoxious asking someone how they feel constantly when I need them to turn around. I will recount epics I have had loudly to "educate" someone nearby. I will talk about how long a SAR response will be to inspire some better thinking.
We just had a couple of big men decide to go caving in shorts, exit the cave in soft, waist deep snow in 30 degree wet weather, and require a lengthy rescue. http://www.columbian.com/news/2011/mar/20/rescue-at-ape-cave-two-day-hikers-owe-much-to-thos/ Thankfully we were able to rewarm them and fashion dry clothes out of trash bags for them and assist them to snowmobiles on a nearby forest road. The thought of carrying out a 450+ pound man and his 300 pound "little brother" was daunting. The amazing part is that they deliberately went out in shorts thinking that wet pants on their legs would be too cold!
That others may live....
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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i just deleted my post.
it would be interpreted as unkind to the party,
and unkind to a certain renown climber as well.
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laurel arndt
Trad climber
phoenix
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If you want to give aid than a nice smile and hint of humor makes help a lot easier to accept. We all think we can work our way through stuff (or our partner will) but pride goes before a fall. I've had great trips in RR thanks to great partnerships. Done many routes in that area with no epics. Did get cold easily. Thanks for the reminder about bluebird days turning brutal!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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The SS rap [gully] is awkward and particularly so for less experienced climbers. All in all there are lots of places to climb in RR so better to head a little off the beaten track than stand in line at at the most popular lines.
I think because the place has the dual sport/trad thing going you get a lot of less experienced cross-overs attempting trad lines that, even at lower grads, can be quite challenging experiences for a lot of those folks.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
Oakland
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Top out SS, do the two huge (clean) raps off the backside and then do the long ass boulder hop boggie walkoff. Was a great intro to longer routes for me.
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Ensonik
Trad climber
Montreal, Quebec
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Having heard about the epic raps down the gully, when I went up SS earlier this year with my son, I set a turn around time for 2:00 PM. That time ticked by at the top of the P1 on SS
(lay off; we had a late start and I climbed the gully on the left ...)
That turned out to be a wise decision; that rap is a horror ... the horror ... We made it back to the car pretty much as the sun was setting.
BUT, I'll say this: As n00b as I am, I'm not stupid; Our packs contain: space blankets, hats, gloves, waterproof coats, food, headlamps, batteries, ... Some may accuse me of being overpacked, but I honestly don't give a sh#t.
I too documented the whole thing here, happily, not an epic. I go by the ethos that there is absolutely no macho pride up there. Not for me; not when my kid weighs in the balance.
http://mikemclean.ca/ocd/2011/03/11/ocd-in-red-rocks-last-part/
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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A couple of years ago there was a long thread (I'm too lazy to look for it) about "what the hell do people carry in those packs", or something to that effect. As I recall a lot of experienced climbers were basically making fun of people who bring too much sh#t on climbs. Well, this is the other side of the story. I guess experience means finding just the right balance. Certainly a couple of big garbage bags stuffed into their pockets would have led to a much better outcome. A garbage bag weighs less than an ounce, but blue skies in the morning will always fool you. ha
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Sergio Colombo
Mountain climber
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I know this wall very well as I have climbed SS almost 15 times, and almost every other route on the wall more than once except Sunflower. The recap of this day all sounds very familiar, and I have seen my fair share of screw ups on this wall. Out of towner's can easily underestimate the length of the wall (almost 2000 ft. to the top of SS), the desert weather (very hot or very cold) and their own abilities. The 5.6 rating on SS might lure lots of climbers but the length of it and the long raps, especially combined with Beulah's Book or JV, can very easily turn an easy day into epic for themselves and for other parties stuck behind them. This was such an example of what not to do when the weather turns nasty on a long route. You should be polite, but when the sh#t hits the fan, you need to take action and move on.
My advantage in situations like that on the SS wall is that I know when to turn around if I spot parties like the ones HariHari described. There are other rap stations that can be used to avoid or minimize lines but for someone who's not familiar with the area, it's not going to be easy. The gully can be easily downclimbed with the exception of the first pitch. But considering the darkness, rapping is always first choice. I am glad nobody got seriously hurt, just another lesson to take home.
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melski
Trad climber
bytheriver
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ok ,,cant say i:ve done double raps,,sounds simple enough,,beyond rope/anchor strength what are other factors? PS way to stay cool in cluster F,,,,s,,calm logic is all you can share in those situations,,chow,,
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harihari
Trad climber
Squampton
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2011 - 02:01pm PT
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Lots of good ideas here.
I too am done with RR moderates...too many gumbies. The fixed stations etc IMHO make the problem worse-- any idiot figures "oh we can get off" cos of them bolts. If you can climb 10+ though you are set. And with the new Handren guide there's so many routes to do...
We did try to politely suggest ways to speed things up-- the snails however were being stubborn and silly (oen of them was really taking her role as Mother Hen too seriously) and the party who got hypothermia just didn't realise how bad things could get.
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brotherbbock
Trad climber
Alta Loma, CA
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Bunch of savages running around RR.
These are the a-holes that kick rocks on everyone while their penduluming around looking for anchors.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Why the f*#k didn't you go back up and help them?
Full of criticism, but you hear cries for help and turn tail and run off. Lame.
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harihari
Trad climber
Squampton
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
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Hi Lambone-- we couldn't have re-climbed it. A) we were basically starting to be hypothermic ourselves, b) there was a full-on waterfall in the gully (I am not talking trickle; I am talking pounding wall of water) c) the rock is mush when wet and water + darkness + soft rock = death for anybody who would want to help. The in-danger party appeared to be tryign to rap so there was nothing for it but to call 911. When I talked to SAR the next day they said we'd done the right thing.
BTW simulrapping-- this ought to be standard procedure esp when there is any kind of crowd. It is fine on standard (9-11mm) ropes; you can easily do it on skinny ones too (just use a prussik); just make sure both people are weighting the rope silutaneously and rapping near each other. And there is NO EXCUSE ona busy route for not having a Reverso (or similar) and sinul-belaying your seconds.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Hi Lambone-- we couldn't have re-climbed it.
Meh, you are weak. JV is like 3 rappels right? You could have waited at the base for them to get down and helped them get back to the car rather then leave them to suffer an open bivi and almost die. imho...
Normally I don't wait for people but if there calling for help that changes everything.
And frankly I find your "analysis" to be condescending and inconsiderate, and full of your own assumptions.
You make a big example out of these poor people who had an epic with a "read and learn" take home message of rappel faster and bring a rain coat. Nice, thanks smart guy.
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harihari
Trad climber
Squampton
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 6, 2011 - 04:07pm PT
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Hi Lambone--
Calling somebody condescending and weak, not having been there, assumes an awful lot on your part. If I sound condescending toward the "snails," fine, they were-- despite polite suggestions from two other parties-- slowing everything down and creating some serious hassles.
First, yes, we could have waited a couple of hours...and also gotten hypothermia. I had brought enough clothes (long sleeved shirt, fleece and waterproof jacket, plus hat) to get off the route safely, not to hang out for the night, and we had no extras for another party. I'm not exagerating when I say we had howling sideways wind and snow and that it was seriously cold. When giving aid, you take care of yourself, then team, then the victim, in that order. It would have done no good to us or others to hang out there.
Second, when we called SAR, we asked if we should stick around. They said "no," because of the weather-- they told us they didn't want to deal with two pairs of hypothermic people.
The only thign I wodnered abotu was, why SAR didn't get out to the base of JV that evening. I understand they couldn't fly, obviously, but given that we told them the in-danger party was trying to rap...
Oh and the elsson to be learned was, in fact, move faster and bring warmer clothes! Come on, not everybody has climbed for 50 years like you, Lambone, and knows everything: maybe a beginner will read this and get somethign out of it, or an experienced person will be reminded that it's easy to botch things.
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