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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Mar 31, 2011 - 02:14pm PT
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i appreciate a lot of the information you post; even if it is not all well qualified
however i have a basic disagreement with this sort of rational:
Their day is coming. I don't have to lift a finger. I need to concern myself with, and abide by, The Greatest Commandment and GOD will take care of the rest. GOD will take care of them.
we are all entitled to our own religious beliefs, however nutty they may appear to others
however this comment uses religious beliefs to assign all responsibilities to some assumed omniscient diety; as a mechanism for shirking personal responsibilities for improving the world
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Mar 31, 2011 - 02:20pm PT
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Word!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Mar 31, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
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Risk assessment and earthquake protection is headed for another massive round of upgrading.
Realitation.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Mar 31, 2011 - 03:03pm PT
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There is enough resources/energy for everyone on Earth with a plethora left over, as well as off of Earth. It is the haves vs. have nots. Their point of view is they don't want you to succeed. They don't want you and me here on Earth. They want it all for themselves. The rich powerful elite are beyond evil and full of greed. Everyday in the news we get a face full and eye full of it. Verification of this truth occurs day after day.
"Vengence is mine" says the Lord.
Their day is coming. I don't have to lift a finger. I need to concern myself with, and abide by, The Greatest Commandment and GOD will take care of the rest. GOD will take care of them.
"I will destroy those who destroy the Earth."
I don't have to worry about it. They will get their due. Karma happens.
we are all entitled to our own religious beliefs, however nutty they may appear to others
however this comment uses religious beliefs to assign all responsibilities to some assumed omniscient diety; as a mechanism for shirking personal responsibilities for improving the world
TC,
You do realize I was referring to vengence on the corrupt powerful elite of the World who have put us into this mess, right?
We do bear personal responsibility. And it is our responsibility to be the best stewards of the Earth and the natural resources given to us, and to care for the Earth. And there is more than enough resources/energy to go around for everyone with excess. That is not in dispute.
What I was referring to was taking personal vengence out on them. That is not our responsibility. We aren't supposed to hate and warmonger. Vengence is GOD's, as the Good Book says. And yes he will take care of that. We aren't supposed to worry ourselves with vengence, hate, and war.
And if we (mankind) didn't worry about that so much (hate, vengence, and war), the World would be a more peaceful place, and half the World's problems would be solved.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Mar 31, 2011 - 03:14pm PT
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hey there say, DMT.. thank you kindly for the picture of tokyo and for the info...
i have been very much afraid for the folks in tokyo, and the coast, there, as i sometimes get the thoughts that this is due to happen again, in year? years to come... :(
i wish the people could have some answers for this time... the earth is moving, and has been, but it's proved to more intense these last years...
once again, thank you for sharing...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Mar 31, 2011 - 04:23pm PT
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The last quake and tsunami of this size occurred 1,200 years ago in almost the same area so it's doubtful one this size will happen anytime soon.
Ironically a Japanese professor had just spent the past two years traveling up and down the coast warning people that his geological studies showed that the Soga earthquake and tsunami in 800 A.D. had reached miles inland and that many of their tsunami shelters would be inundated if another one of that size happened again.
He especially implored them to relocate the schools. Of course no one listened and now the schools he said were in danger are missing all of their pupils and teachers.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Mar 31, 2011 - 04:30pm PT
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hey there say, jan.... oh my... say, thanks so much for the latest share of yours...
:)
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Mar 31, 2011 - 04:47pm PT
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Tokyo Electric had previously announced plans to spray a water and synthetic resin mix around the complex to envelop radioactive particles, so they can't spread any further. Still, persistent rain and wind on Thursday forced authorities to postpone the start of that effort.
The Japanese utility and the government have gotten new help from beyond its borders.
On Wednesday, a 155-person Intial Response Force comprised of Marines from Naval Support Facility Indian Head, Maryland, was directed to deploy to Yokota, Japan, according to Defense Department spokeswoman Leslie Hull-Ryde.
The force "is specifically trained in areas of chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear and high yield explosion operations," she said. "... the IRF can provide capabilities for monitoring support for agent detection and identification; casualty search, rescue, and personnel decontamination; and emergency medical care and stabilization of contaminated personnel." The Marines will arrive in Japan as early as Friday, she said.
A French nuclear group, Areva, has sent five specialists who are experts in treating contaminated water, the group said Wednesday.
Klimmer "And if we (mankind) didn't worry about that so much (hate, vengence, and war), the World would be a more peaceful place, and half the World's problems would be solved". 99% of your Elite's or people that run the systems you criticize are your own people: Christians, maybe you should change religions.
And Fatty what is Israel doing, only thing I think of is Mossad trying to collect information to Japan's 2010 deal with Iran for 5 Nuke plants which I am sure is off the table for the time being on both sides or could be that they are collecting the dangerous spent fuel to put into small containers so they can put under the back seats of their many enemies auto’s so they get cancer in the ass. But you would know that since this technique has been done long time ago and two things their enemy looks for just like our guys: checking for bombs under them with mirrors, dogs and handheld devices and anything radioactive before they get into their cars.
Tom and Golson good points and Werner correct on mismanagement.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Mar 31, 2011 - 05:32pm PT
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Rockermike,
It seems the Pollyanna (everything is just fine)crowd is slowly disappearing from the discussion. Hiding in shame I suppose.
I'm surprised at you.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mar 31, 2011 - 07:57pm PT
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It has been 20 years since I had radiation safety training. But I work at the Hanford Nuclear Reservation so I feel somewhat compelled to comment.
If you read the last link I put up they mention twice the news black out among the workers, but the article also slips in some "matter of fact" statements about plutonium pockets inside the plant that is slowing them down??This is something that has not been reported beyond the initial finding that there were small amounts of some plutonium found in the soil, with at least some of it coming from the plant.
There are very few isotopes of Plutonium that give off gamma radiation. It is an Alpha emitter and therefore if you wear a properly outfitted respirator, HEPA cartridge, follow basic techniques then Plutonium will most likely not prevent workers from performing their duties. That is not to say that there may not be other radiation concerns.
See the link from the EPA
http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/radionuclides/plutonium.html
Health Effects of Plutonium
How can plutonium affect people's health?
External exposure to plutonium poses very little health risk, since plutonium isotopes emit alpha radiation, and almost no beta or gamma radiation. In contrast, internal exposure to plutonium is an extremely serious health hazard. It generally stays in the body for decades, exposing organs and tissues to radiation, and increasing the risk of cancer. Plutonium is also a toxic metal, and may cause damage to the kidneys.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mar 31, 2011 - 09:38pm PT
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TGT, I could not get your link to work. Sounds like they are getting ready for Concrete?
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Gene
climber
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Mar 31, 2011 - 09:47pm PT
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From the cited article:
Initially, the pump from Savannah River Site, and another 70-meter Putzmeister now at a construction site in California, will be used to pump water—and later will be used to move concrete.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mar 31, 2011 - 10:00pm PT
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Hi Riley,
you have had some good points concerning the reports of how the workers are being treated. I have no clue as to how things are done in Japan, but as you are aware, the price of proper Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) is insignificant when dealing with either nasty disease, radiation or chemicals. So I would not be surprised to hear that there were many issues with protecting the workers. If this were in the states, the workers would be protected to the fullest extent.
That does not address the potential for contamination to spread, and hopefully, the help that the Japanese is receiving includes running some models which would predict radiation levels to the general population (I am reasonably certain this is being done for the Japanese and us).
I have done a little research and do not have any idea of the extent of contamination around the plant. However, Plutonium seems to have a fairly strong affinity for soil. In the short term this will prevent the spread of contamination but could end up with increased costs if remediation is required.
No matter how you look at it this is an ugly event for human health and the environment.
However, after cleaning up lots of bad places, I wonder if it would have been any better if it had been a huge coal fly ash lagoon. That stuff would have been sent out to sea and nobody even thinking about it.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Mar 31, 2011 - 11:06pm PT
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Golsen,
I am going thru my safety training right now at Hanford. It always impresses me the extent that these company's go thru to keep their workers safe. Just all the different types of respirators and how to use them is a class by itself. All the best stuff. Oh yea, if you don't pass every test with a 80% score you are gone the same day. Serious stuff for sure. The radiation protection classes are really hard and a lot of people don't make it. I've probably done 20 outages and I still get freaked out that I might fail one. I feel safe working at our plants.
Roger
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Mar 31, 2011 - 11:37pm PT
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DMT: Thanks for the "big wall" analogy.
If you use the right gear, if you follow protocol and if you execute your tasks carefully and without mistake... every time, you can be safe in an otherwise deadly environment.
It is great that "Acts of God" like rockfall, lightning strikes, earthquakes, & Tsunamis never happen to properly prepared big wall climbers or nuclear plant workers.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Thanks Riley.
I think I got a feel for what you do to and there will be good karma coming your way. Proper training, remembering that there are no short cuts when it comes to safety helps to keep it in perspective. My boss at the plant that destroyed cold war era munitions filled with nerve agent had an excellent perspective. I remember telling him that we would miss an important milestone and be late on some weapons destruction. He looked at me and said, "when we are rid of these weapons and we have done so safely 10 years from now, the people of Oregon won't care that it took longer than planned. They will just be glad that we did so safely." This is the type of public servant that you want to have looking after such a dangerous process. In other words, the most important thing on our agenda was safety of the workforce and by protecting them we had already protected the surrounding communities. That is a lesson that I use in my current job.
Roger,
I hope that your work on the outage at the Nuke Reactor plant goes well. Stay safe, and remember that if you feel in danger, stop and let people know.
Nuclear workers are protected by PAAA. If you still feel like you are in danger then email me. I have lots of experience in persuading management to do the right thing.
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