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marv
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 3, 2011 - 09:17pm PT
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For me,
third-place: Heart of Darkness. Conrad was a master psychologist. Loved the juxtaposition of primal and bourgeoisie. Few know that Conrad wrote in English, which isn't his native tongue.
second-place: Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. The main idea (Pirsig's notion of undifferentiated Quality) isn't all that heavy, but the writing is superb throughout and several moments are alternately harrowing or heartrending. Great book that I've read at least three times cover to cover.
first-place: A Scanner Darkly -- now a shittty indie movie starring Keanu Reeves! A discourse on the nature of "self".
Anyway, I'm looking to crack another good book. Show what you got.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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How about the most intellectually worthy book you've read?
Th most intellectually heavy:
Biochemistry, by Lubert Stryer and Paul Berg
The most intellectually worthy:
Selfish Gene, Richard Dawkins
Shadows of Forgotten Ancestors, Carl Sagan
The Demon Haunted World, Carl Sagan
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j-tree
Big Wall climber
bay area, ca
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Selections from Judith Butler's "Gender Trouble"
Nice and chunky feminist linguistic criticism.
Favorite part being the argument that trying to critique a masculine hegemony in society from a feminist perspective is akin to trying to defend yourself in court using only the words and arguments of the prosecuting attorney.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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I had a grad school differential equations book that must have weighed about 18lbs.
As far as Conrad, guy spoke several languages but was a Polish native IIRC. I prefer Lord Jim to HOD, read them within a month of each other last summer. But I wouldn't call either of them "intellectually heavy" by any stretch. The narrative device in Lord Jim is very cool, as are the themes.
Zen and...it's been about 10 years, maybe I should read it again. Fairly boring to me until the meltdown, I can see why it was a kind of faddish book that hasn't really endured.
Guess I just don't view the novel, or really fiction for that matter, as "intellectual" books.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Philosophical Investigations by Ludwig Wittgenstein.
If you liked Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance this might be a fun one to try out. It doesn't have the entertainment value of a narrative storyline, but once you start to engage with his thought experiments it becomes quite a ride, and will definitely impact the way you look at things.
The same can be said for R.D. Laing's Knots, which is a much breezier read.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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If you look deeply enough...
and also happen to be weather locked on a mountain top for a few extra weeks...
with only one book in the cabin for some perverse reason...
you can get a lot from the "Tao of Pooh".
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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What do you mean by heavy? Dense? Difficult? Profound? A big bummer?
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Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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The Bible - No other book has put me to my knees in tears, supplicating (crying out) to God with the deepest conviction and unworthiness like the Bible has. I am nothing, He is everything!
Glory to God!
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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The Turning Point by Fritjof Capra
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WBraun
climber
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If it's intellectually heavy I throw it into the dumpster.
My spirit needs to float and not sink ......
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Got to be Kant.
I thought Zen was pretty sacharrin.
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Byran
climber
Merced, CA
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I'd have to go with Politics God and Religion vs Science by Dr. F.
I used to go about life without really thinking about the big questions. Then I read that book and it changed me forever. I divorced my wife, burned down my house, and had myself committed to a mental institution. Now I refuse to eat anything but avocados, honey, and and my own seed. And I couldn't be happier! Such is the enlightenment that those 2381 pages of groundbreaking philosophy have bestowed upon me.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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What do you mean by heavy? Dense? Difficult? Profound? A big bummer?
Exactly. People are different.
For me, the Bible and The Odyssey were really profound.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Einstein's The Meaning of Relativity confronts our notions of science and measurement, demonstrates the astoundingly straightforward process he followed to arrive at his famous, world-changing conclusions, and has some of the heaviest mathematics you will find in any book. But, it is totally accessible to anyone, and does not require a rigorous mathematical background to understand.
A remarkable read, from a remarkable man.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Abnormal Psychology is a fun read. Always has good art work.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Daniel Dennett - Darwin's Dangerous Idea
I'm reading it again now. I can pick this book up at almost any place and learn (or relearn) something significant within 3 pages.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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finnegan's wake? a bright shining lie? dispatches? walden? anything by twain? the collected works of w.h. auden? hell, the list goes on and on...
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Kevin, if you liked that, try "The Rise of the West", by W.H. McNeill. Guns, Germs and Steel in some ways derived from it.
The History of the Peloponnesian War, by Thucydides, is pretty good.
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jeff_m
Social climber
700' up
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Give us some parameters and then we'll talk...
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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I rarely read fiction but Richard Dawkins' 'The God Delusion' was wonderful to read, lots of 'aha!' moments there. I am an apathetic atheist but reading the writing of a 'fundamentalist atheist' was an eyeopener.
I am also working on Ayn Rand's 'The Virtue of Selfishness.' This is not subway reading material though, needs a lot of attention.
My other one is Stephen King's 'It' which is deeper than a typical horror story. I do prefer fiction after all ;)
I love seeing what others are posting here, must look into these titles.
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D'Wolf
climber
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Tradgedy and Hope: a History of the World in Our Time by Carroll Quigley, one of Bill Clinton's professed "mentors" (he actually mentioned him by name in his acceptance speech in '92)
Should be required reading for all. Maybe then we'd quit fighting over left-wing/right-wing garbage and realize what's really going on.
Unfortunately, its' 1300 pages of historical analysis would probably bounce right off the brain-pan of most.
"The National parties and their presidential candidates, with the
Eastern Establishment assiduously fostering the process behind the
scenes, moved closer together and nearly met in the center with almost
identical candidates and platforms although the process was concealed,
as much as possible, by the revival of obsolescent or meaningless war
cries and slogans."
"The two parties should be almost identical so that the American
people can "throw the rascals out" at any election without leading to
any profound or extensive shifts in policy."
"Either party in office becomes in time corrupt, tired,
unenterprising and vigorless. Then it should be possible to replace it
every four years by the other party which will be none of these things
but will still pursue, with new vigor, approximately the same basic
policies."
Cheers and happy reading,
Thom
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Give us some parameters and then we'll talk...
Haha! Exactly.
I have some parameters that I'll share later...I gotta think. But really good stuff is both stuff that makes you think, and sh#t that absorbs you because you don't have to think, you relate.
And this is where the human condition of 'being human and independantly different' comes in. There are few common denominators in literature. Some of the 'common' ones suck for me, but whatever...
EDIT:
My other one is Stephen King's 'It' which is deeper than a typical horror story. I do prefer fiction after all ;)
Read his short stories too! SOme of his best are written under his other name of Richard Bachman.
Stephan King is weird, but a f*#king good writer of weird stuff. I always liked his sh#t.
I could prolly send you some books but I'd want them back, so I dunno. Some of his early stuff is out of print I think.
Get this one. It's good!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bachman_Books
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Monkey Wrench Gang...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Yeah, it's a math book.
Still haven't finished it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Y'all are a bunch of lightweights.
You want the wisdom of the universe? It's there. In print. Probably not one in a million of you could even begin to understand, but if you think you're up for it, find a copy of...
"Vicious Lies an' Heinous Slander, From a Supremely Demented Little Corner of the Coast Range" by Mrs. T. Knight
Everything you need to know is there. If only you could understand it.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Ditto on Godel, Escher, Bach.
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Read, no--use, perhaps:
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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The Quest for Consciousness by Christof Koch
Making of the Atomic Bomb by Richard Rhodes
Still reading...
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krahmes
Social climber
Stumptown
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For Language: The Tunnel, William H. Gass
For Fiction: Harlot’s Ghost, Norman Mailer
For Ideas: The Structure of Evolutionary Theory, Stephen Jay Gould.
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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I've read them all and I would have to agree with the Cragman.
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DanaB
climber
Philadelphia
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Fear and Trembling
No Exit
The Myth of Sisyphus
Survival in Auschwitz
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bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
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First two that come to mind:
1-All Quiet on the Western Front
2-Grapes of Wrath. My jaw hung slack and agape at the end!
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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I'll second Guns Germs and Steel and One Hundred Years of Solitude.
Che Guevara, A Revolutionary Life isn't terribly intellectually heavy, but it weighs a ton!
Cadillac Desert is a good one, not too heavy, but gets you thinking for sure.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Man Corn-about the possibilty that chacoan culture was plagued and ultimately destroyed by cannibalism
Torture and Democracy by darius rejali-critical examination of torture committed by democracies, and how it affects them.
Life and Fate-Vitaliy Grossman-best novel about the war in Stalingrad, from a jewish journalists perspective.
the bible? come on!
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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So, what's the most intellectually heavy book that you've understood?
Everyone Poops, by Tarō Gomi.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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What? No Separate Reality?
Tao of Physics, was pretty eye opening, since I'm not a math whiz.
Certainly the most sobering:
Confronting Collapse
The Crisis of Energy and Money in a Post Peak Oil World
by Michael C. Ruppert
If you want a care-free go-lucky day, don't bother with this one.
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howlostami
Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
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I think Siddhartha forced more constructive intellectual activity from my noggin than most.
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anees
climber
temporary exile from the land of enchantment
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Vote #3 for Godel Escher Bach, for making one re-evaluate long-held unconscious assumptions.
On a more artistic note: Omeros, by Derek Walcott. An re-telling of Homer, the Illiad and the Odyssey, set on the post-colonial Caribbean island of St. Lucia. Written in verse. For those of you who are very familiar with the Homeric works, it's mind-blowing. I return to it again and again.
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Bad Climber
climber
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Another vote for Tao of Physics. The mathematics and more extreme abstractions near the end start to run away from me, but I really loved that book. One of the more fiercely intellectual books I've read is The Magic Mountain by Thomas Mann. Jeez what a thick read. Currently I'm working on City of Quartz by Mike Davis about Los Angeles. Thick sledding at times but great stories about weird aspects of LA most never encounter. More accessible and hugely fun is The Ecology of Fear, a noir history and profile of LA. Simply fantastic!
Keep on reading.
BAd
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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I'll also go with Guns Germs and Steel for non fiction. Previous mention of Siddhartha made me think of all those Hesse novels, I think I'd go with Magister Ludi (The Glass Bead Game) for fiction.
If you're looking for a more gonzo fiction classic, I'd have to say Giles Goatboy by John Barth. How can you not be entranced by a story about a young man that is sired by a computer and a virgin and then raised by goats. When he reaches the age that he has to decide what he's going to do with his life, he realizes that the only thing he's qualified to do is...be The Messiah!
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Someone mentioned Stephen Jay Gould's, The Structure of Evolutionary Theory. That get's my vote for the just plain heaviest book I've read (as in hurts when you drop it on your foot).
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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The one that comes to mind for me is "To Kill a Mockingbird."
But!
I was in first grade, and had just begun to read(at the "See David run." level), and was hooked on reading about as badly as I was when I first began climbing - HOOKED. I went to my mother's bookshelf and pulled that one...
It took every ounce of my mental capacity, at that reading level and age, to get through some of it, and I am sure I did not finish the book, of course. I just remember being totally baffled in trying to connect the concepts from one paragraph to the next.....
Everything is relative, I guess!
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mawk
Big Wall climber
Hugo, MN
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I'd cast another vote for Kant.
And I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Pynchon yet: "Gravity's Rainbow" or "V".
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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interesting post, but i would split "heavy" into "dark" and "dense".
"dark"--anything by stephen king. i read one. that was enough.
"dense"--tripmaster monkey. i liked pirsig's book, but i don't think it was either dark or dense. some books i avoid because of their density--harmony by walter piston was one. gödel, escher, bach got hold of my youngest brother's imagination and he hasn't done anything outdoors with me since. yes, gravity's rainbow by thomas pynchon sounds like it'd be pretty heavy. (is he still hiding somewhere in california? does anybody know where?) i read his vineland, a tad lighter. that was enough.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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"Guns Germs and Steel" has had several mentions.
VDH's "Carnage and Culture" is a great counterpoint.
He deconstructs Diamond fairly convincingly.
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The Lisa
Trad climber
Da Bronx, NY
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Bluering, I have read all of King's novels (including 'Bachman') but thanks for the offer. I detest a lot of his more recent novels like 'Gerald's Game' but 'It' stands out for me as extra 'deep' and not just a horror story with kids.
I do love Helprin novels, looks like a few here are fans. James Joyce takes some work to read and I find reading 'Ulysses' aloud helps absorb the narrative.
I got a lot of food for thought from Ayn Rand's novels so decided to tackle one of her philosophy books.
I am also reading Aristotle's 'Ethics' so it is interesting comparing the two books.
I do not know whether my iPad is ultimately a blessing or a curse. Instead of carrying one physical book with me to read at a time, I carry many diverse books digitally and can switch from one to another if I have my fill of philosophy and want to read a horror story.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Upton Sinclair - The Jungle, and after you stop eating meat, think about the process of 'speeding up' he describes in other contexts.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Ahhhh! Gravity's Rainbow, that was a tough one for me. Maybe it was the sentence that was 1 1/2 pages long, or the adenoid that ate NYC, I think it would be better read on mescaline.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Lots of good stuff here,
also
Pattern recognition William Gibson
Freud's analysis of da Vinci's bird dream is fascinating and perhaps a cautionary tale about lucid dream interpretation.
Did anyone Mention Hawkings?
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howlostami
Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
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Mawk;
I was thinking about about mentioning Pynchon, but although I've technically "read" "V" and tried "Gravity's Ranibow" a couple times (trying again as of recently), I can't claim to be any better off for having done this... "Slow Learner" is his book of early short stories, and those are wonderful, I'd recommend them to anyone. Of course "Vineland" is a must read for all you left coasters :)
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crøtch
climber
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The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Kuhn opened my eyes more than most books I have read.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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first-place: A Scanner Darkly -- now a shittty indie movie starring Keanu Reeves! A discourse on the nature of "self".
Anyway, I'm looking to crack another good book. Show what you got.
I'm not a Reeves fan, but I thought the movie was actually pretty good.
For intellectually heavy books I have read (at least in the sense of looking at every word), it would have to be some of the Nietzsche stuff I tried to work through.
For a great, long, serious, enlightening work, I would recommend Anna Karenina.
For a great, short, fun, enlightening work, I would recommend Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Kuhn. I read this as a Freshman in college and it had an impact on me also. It was a seminar class with a wide ranging reading list. For instance, reading some of Isaac Newton's views on science was memorable also.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Richard Reti's Masters of the Chessboard
Not only did I learn a lot about chess, but it is a good template for the study of any endeavor. Understand what was past and you learn what is to come. I even applied it to climbing, and it worked!
Second place would be any musical score by JS Bach. The more you learn, the deeper he gets. It's scary.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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"The Logic of Failure", Dietrich Dorner
Really thought provoking and entertaining for a psychology of human behavior book. Lots of eye opening experiments.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Did some more thinking about this last night.
Read most of the Feynman Lectures on Physics. Understood half.
Read part of Critique of Pure Reason by Kant. Gave up.
Guns, Germs and Steel, Making of the Atomic Bomb, and Bright Shining Lie are all very good, but so readable, that to me they don't quite get to "heavy".
Couldn't really make it thru Finnegans Wake or Gravitys Rainbow.
But another that I did finish that was hard and long was the Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitzen.
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Guns, Germs and Steel, Making of the Atomic Bomb, and Bright Shining Lie are all very good, but so readable, that to me they don't quite get to "heavy".
IMO, readable shouldn't disqualify a book. I consider a book to be 'intellectually heavy' if it proposes ideas or theories that keep me thinking long after I've put the book down.
But then, I never went to college, so what to I know?
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Gulag Archipelago....I carried that one around for months! Just reading the endless accounts of the terrible things in the Gulag, put you in empathy with what a dismal thing it was to be sent to Siberia.
Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson was a really great read, so I jumped with both feet into Anathem....I've started it 3 times, you pretty much have to learn a new language.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Anathem got better as it went along.
Couldn't get through more than the first one of the Quicksilver trilogy however.
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Zoo
climber
Fremont, CA
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Not a book, but there was this SuperTopo thread I read a while back ...
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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I'm usually pretty dogged, but with Anathem I got 100 pages the 1st time, 200 the next and then about 300 when I finally gave up and read some more Stephen Baxter.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish.
Dead-on. After 50 years of living it is clear that this book, read repeatedly in my early years, became a foundation for my personal philosophy of living. All others are neatly stacked upon this gem of simplicity of truth and art. I have two copies in my personal library and this quote posted on the wall:
...these things are fun, and fun is good.
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Dr. X
Big Wall climber
X- Town
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Penthouse Forum #87
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Guns, Germs and Steel, and Collapse, both by, Jared Diamond.
of course. Collapse. Read it in 2009, best book I read that year. Coulden't put it down.
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wacky
Social climber
Schlongmont, CO
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Brian Greene's books on string theory: "The Elegant Universe" and "Fabric of the Cosmos" are pretty far out there....or the "Silmarillion" by Tolkein
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Posted by Papillon Rendre
Agreed. Can even use it for business as well.
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Brandon-
climber
Done With Tobacco
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Brian Greene's books on string theory: "The Elegant Universe" and "Fabric of the Cosmos"
Brian Greene was on NPR's 'Talk of the Nation, Science Friday' today.
Good stuff.
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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Property by Jesse Dukeminier
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Tung Gwok
Mountain climber
South Bend, Indiana
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Critique of Pure Reason.
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Depends on the time of my life in which I read the book and/or my state of mind when said book is in hand.
An American Tragedy (required reading for 7th grade)
The Chronicles of Narnia
A Walk Through the Woods
The Signals catalog
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Human Action - Ludwig Von Mises
Modern Book of the Black Bass - Byron Dalrymple
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storer
Trad climber
Golden, Colorado
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Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Mikhaylovich Dostoyevsky. Some others cited are really good too but this one is truly a heavyweight, IMO.
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murcy
climber
sanfrancisco
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I thought Ayn Rand was great until I grew up. Then it was just propaganda.
Good for you.
Others say the same about Nietzsche---who is a perplexing mix of crap and really interesting stuff.
One of my early students, actually my advisee, was a Nietzsche fan. He was sure some people, like him, were special. After his freshman year, he went home and murdered his family---and so I stopped taking sophomoric attachment to bad philosophy lightly.
Well, let's just say that he and a friend were convicted of the murders, but the conviction was mostly based on a questionable sting by Canadian Mounties.
It's actually a really interesting case. If you're interested here's a website and a documentary arguing the "unjust conviction" position. I'm inclined to think it was an unjust conviction, though I have no view about guilt.
http://www.rafayburnsappeal.com/
http://www.mrbigthemovie.com/
The documentary is worth buying/watching, by the way.
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beef supreme
climber
the west
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foucault's discipline and punishment
I remember one time my teacher saying that he wasn't even sure if Foucault was sure of what he was trying to express; I was bewildered by that, but then again it was 10th grade. But I failed Kindergarden so perhaps it will forever be 'over my head'
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dfinnecy
Social climber
'stralia
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I have seen both Godel Escher Bach and Gravitys Rainbow above. Both proved more book than I could handle.
I have read and been blown away by the first 60 pages of GEB a couple times and then I always get stuck in a recursive loop trying to understand what the hell he's talkin bout willis. (Read a paragraph, think about it, I don't understand, I think I need to read that paragraph again, read again, repeat etc etc etc)
Gravitys Rainbow - I was pushing through it like a plate of lima beans (This must be good for me,..) until a friendly thief in Colombia relieved me of my backpack containing credit cards, a camera, and thankfully, GR. I bought a new camera and backpack.
Now where did I leave my Hardy Boys Omnibus?
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dfinnecy
Social climber
'stralia
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100 Years of Solitude by Gabriel Garcia Marquez - I don't like fiction much anymore but this one holds up. When my son was born I decided to read it to him outloud over months of putting him to sleep, feeding etc. I didn't realize how filthy that book is until I did that. As steeped in sin and human frailty as the Bible!
Foucault's Pendulum by Umberto Eco - Looooooooong. But good and illuminating once its done. But looooooooooooooooooooooooong.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
Oakland
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Everyone Poos
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there, say, all....
me, i'm picking:
any good sized dictionary.... :)
and:
any mediumly, though not too technical medical books on the human body...
hard to fathom how intricately the whole process is, that keeps us "ticking" in these eartly bodies... :O
amazing... why, if just one little thing goes "too far out of line", everything can be adverstly affected... yet, when all is in sycn, (whether critter or human) what a deep amazing set up these books let us "in on"...
and, in fiction:
why, the ol' fourth novel of my series:
jake's ranch and the second gate, (you'd have to read it, to see why)...
it highlights another process that we go through, as we reach the end of our aged-trail--it is so unique, to all, in real life, that i had to make it hightlighted in a fiction story....
:)
well, now, i got to babysit early, so i must take a step on out of the ol' taco now...
:)
happy supertopo eve, to all...
god bless...
:)
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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The Last Battle
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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That's funny you should say that, Neebee. I was going to say Gray's Anatomy, it's the biggest book on my shelf, but I have only read parts.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Only counting books I've read all the way through, it could be God Speaks.
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hb81
climber
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Viktor Frankl - Man's search for meaning
incredible book
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Tobia
Social climber
GA
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Hard to say but I have enjoyed reading over the list.
Concerning Gravity's Rainbow - I am not so sure Thomas Pynchon got through it. Thoroughly "turgid, unreadable and overwritten"; just as the Pulitzer folks described it.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jul 21, 2014 - 06:58am PT
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The Road by Cormac McCarthy. Intellectually heavy without pretense.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Jul 21, 2014 - 07:02am PT
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Fiction: Gravity's Rainbow by Thomas Pyncheon
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Da-Veed
Trad climber
Bend Oregon
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Jul 21, 2014 - 07:21am PT
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The Discovery and Conquest of Mexico.
-Bernal Díaz del Castillo
Heavy. And intellectual. First hand account of Cortez and the Aztecs. Although the ending is no surprise.
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Branscomb
Trad climber
Lander, WY
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Jul 21, 2014 - 07:37am PT
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Cram & Hammond: Organic Chemistry
Took a year of it in 1973. I got through it, but some people had to take it a second time and failing that, changed their major. Truly some cruel cruel shoes we had to wear.
No wonder that after 4 years of that sort of torture, all I wanted to do was to go climbing.
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MisterE
climber
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Jul 21, 2014 - 07:38am PT
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This one definitely qualifies, and has not been mentioned yet:
Godel Escher Bach - agreed. Set it down baffled many times.
Magister Ludi (The Glass Bead Game) took me multiple tries over years to finish.
Also agree about Guns, Germs and Steel.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 21, 2014 - 08:24am PT
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VDH, Carnage and Culture, pretty much destroys Diamond's hypothesis.
I'll have to check out your suggestion.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 21, 2014 - 08:29am PT
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Every single sentence and every word in every sentence was placed so methodically as to evoke maximium effect in Hitchen's God is not Great. Just before I had read Letters to a Christian Nation and where Harris pedantically leads from one point to another, as a neuroscientist with a love for direct correlation ought to, Hitchens inflects and hints and lets you lead yourself rather than lead you.
Not all will like the content, and to each their own, but I loved it :)
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jul 21, 2014 - 08:30am PT
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I agree with Magister Ludi, I'd put V, or Gravity's Rainbow by Pynchon right up there. That book has sentences that are over a page long. As far as "heavy", Gulag Archipelago fit's that description both literally and figuratively.
Honorable mention: Anathem - Stephenson, Giles Goat Boy - Barth
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 21, 2014 - 08:37am PT
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Ulysses is lite compared to yer average post-doc fare, n'est ce pas?
"But, Pat, you've tenure, why do you still churn out this crap?"
"Because I like the honorariums and free trips to the conferences."
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 21, 2014 - 08:52am PT
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I managed to slow-read the first 100 pages of Heidegger's Sein und Zeit. These days it's mainly Calvin and Hobbes...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 21, 2014 - 08:55am PT
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100 pages of Heidegger? Dood, what were you trying to prove?
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 21, 2014 - 09:04am PT
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Dood, what were you trying to prove?
How should I know? I've always wanted to understand... more...
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yanqui
climber
Balcarce, Argentina
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Jul 21, 2014 - 09:12am PT
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I did try Hegel, Randisi, but I never could figure out what was going on. The Critique of Pure Reason was pretty heavy going, but I believe I actually understood it. The Bible was way heavy going, with all those endless begats and silly rules about how to prepare food and the constant removing of the foreskins, etc. Probably the heaviest books I've encountered were some math books that I read when I was learning my speciality. David Vogan's "Representations of Real Reductive Groups" (out of print) comes to mind. It would cost me hours and hours of effort just to figure out what the hell was going on in a few pages of text.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jul 21, 2014 - 09:27am PT
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Yeah Yanqui, if we're talking math textbooks, my vote is for Elementary Topology - Gemignani . So much information in such a small book (beware of any math book that has "elementary" in the title). The professor was going over the 3rd chapter and it became obvious that no one in the class had a clue what was going on. He said "next class we start again on page 1", that stuff will test your ability to conceptualize.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Jul 21, 2014 - 09:29am PT
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Thanks ekat!
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 21, 2014 - 09:37am PT
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Randisi
I haven't read Ulysses, but when I now opened the book and saw the word "came" in the first sentence of the book, I did have the possible illusion of understanding it...
Have you read Finnegans Wake?
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jgill
Boulder climber
Colorado
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Jul 21, 2014 - 10:25am PT
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It would cost me hours and hours of effort just to figure out what the hell was going on in a few pages of text
Yep, the opposite of speed reading. Most graduate level math texts are slow going.
I would say any book by a famous classical philosopher, but I've never made it through those from cover to cover. However, A New Kind of Science, by Wolfram is by far the heaviest going - almost 8 pounds. I've never heard of anyone, save the author, who has read the 1,200 pages of tiny, dense print.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jul 21, 2014 - 10:37am PT
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Oh yeah, philosophers, The Essential Works of John Stuart Mill
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tro4130
climber
San Diego, CA
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Jul 21, 2014 - 10:47am PT
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I found this book to be quite the read. Really hard to imagine surviving the Holocaust and come out with a zest for life despite the conditions one was put through.
Edit: Intellectual in that Viktor Frankl was one of the foremost psychologists at the time and writes extensively on the psychological differences, and mindsets while in concentration camps himself.
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phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
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Jul 21, 2014 - 01:10pm PT
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Interesting thread.
There is an interpretation people are making about their personal definition of intellectually heavy.
Books that have been mentioned:
For me, Stryer's Biochemistry was not intellectually heavy. It's just a lot of data. I essentially had to memorize it to pass my Ph.D. Exams, oral and written. A lot of work, but not intellectual.
David Foster Wallace's Infinite Jest I found long, dense, funny, fascinating, clever. But there was nothing hard to understand about it.
But stuff like Umberto Eco writes I find intellectually heavy because I do not have the humanities, history background to comprehend the many references. It's not only slow going but I miss a lot of it. That makes it heavy for me.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 21, 2014 - 03:21pm PT
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The Brothers Karamazov.
It led to much introspection, too much, in fact.
I found out stuff about myself I'd have liked to ignore, honestly.
But I'll never tell...
On the other hand, neebee, I felt the American Heritage Dictionary was well-balanced and maybe just a little judgmental and final in some of its definitions. Or was that one of those that you read?
But remember, it's spelling, not philosophy, m'dear. And around here spelling takes a holiday!
Aside: Is it gettin' all "literary" around this website?
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Jul 21, 2014 - 03:56pm PT
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The Teachings of Plump Juan
An Hispano-American Porcine Classic.
Either that or class notes from Harold Garfinkel's class on Ethnomethodology.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 21, 2014 - 04:03pm PT
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Ball Four...Jim Bouton...i could really relate to the under bleacher recreation...
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gnarlydog
Mountain climber
Concord,Ca
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Jul 21, 2014 - 04:21pm PT
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Peter Berger, The Social Construction of Reality, or Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics. Killer reads.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jul 21, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
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Brave New World (Aldous Huxley) - still the most predictive and chilling dystopian novel
Taking The Red Pill: Science, Philosophy, and the Religion in the Matrix (Glenn Yeffeth)
Tao Te Ching (Lao Tzu) - the Ralph Alan Dale translation is far and away the best
Meditations (Marcus Aurelius)
Medical Physiology (Arthur Guyton)
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 21, 2014 - 06:09pm PT
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I suppose it would be trite to suggest anything written by Bukowski.
And speaking of Umberto, I heard Foucault's Pendulum was a doozy.
But my buddy Mateo swears this one is worth the read, and I'm sticking with it:
In Search of Lost Time
by Proust.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jul 21, 2014 - 06:39pm PT
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Whitehead, Procress and Reality.
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MisterE
climber
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Jul 22, 2014 - 06:00am PT
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jul 22, 2014 - 06:47am PT
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And speaking of Umberto, I heard Foucault's Pendulum was a doozy.
It was, at least in my opinion, but I can see some people might not swing with it...with it...with it...with it.
As a professional book sales person, when confronted with a customer's concern over the SIZE and the WEIGHT of a book, I always recommended that should they not care for it but might read it later but didn't want it taking up valuable space in their bookcase, then it might could be a great doorstop.
Several doorstops here in this thread, too numerous to mention.
They tell us to be brief in writing class. Get to the point.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Jul 22, 2014 - 06:52am PT
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I tried to read Stephen Hawkin's Book, A Brief History of Time.
I had to re-read chapter 1 about four times before I gave up and moved onto chapter 2.
I re-read chapter 2 about six times before I gave up and threw away the book.
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Jul 22, 2014 - 07:23am PT
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Proust is perhaps the one writer who can out-detail DFW.
'Remembrance of Things Past'...2 volumes of A4+ prose!?!
“Nine tenths of the ills from which intelligent people suffer spring from their intellect.” -Marcel Proust
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Jul 22, 2014 - 11:38am PT
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"The Discovery and Conquest of Mexico.
-Bernal Díaz del Castillo"
Incredible read. I especially enjoyed the story of one engineer who convinced Cortez to spend a month building a trebuchet during the siege of Tenochtitlan. It's first projectile went straight up, came straight down, and destroyed it.
Add to this the Conquest of the Incas by Hemming. SUPERB.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Jul 22, 2014 - 11:45am PT
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I once went on a several week trip to the Cordillera Real with a buddy. His book offerings: The Tibetan Book of the Dead, and Hunt for Red October.
Really, dude? Nothing in between?
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jul 22, 2014 - 12:37pm PT
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Hands down.
Gödel, Escher, Bach.
The most difficult fiction book would probably be Naked Lunch. It takes a fairly strong mind to get through.
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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Jul 22, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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Fiction book: Possibly Finnegans Wake. The puzzle is far from solved yet... Maybe the experts are just led astray... or leading themselves astray ^^^^
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnegans_Wake
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 22, 2014 - 01:24pm PT
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Yeah, my Dad had Gödel Escher Bach on the bookshelf when I was growing up. I tried to wade into that several times, but couldn't get very far past enjoying the Escher drawings.
Critique of Pure Reason was the other one he had that was too difficult/intimidating for me to ever manage.
I think the heavy philosophy stuff is probably the hardest in general.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Aug 25, 2014 - 01:06am PT
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I remember having a hard time getting started on The Name of the Rose, but once I got into the rhythm of it, retrained my brain to have a larger buffer for larger sentences, I could relax more with that flow and I loved it.
I've got Focault's Pendulum sitting around waiting for me.
The Road was very dark, grim, unflinchingly raw and honest in a terrible situation... so heavy in a "wow this kind of world would suck" way but that was counterbalanced by the love and tenderness of the relationship. But, it was intellectually easy to read, with remarkably simple but powerful sentences.
I started The Unbearable Lightness of Being (Milan Kundera) and was a bit overwhelmed, put it down. Maybe I wasn't in the right mood, not ready for depressing content, but I feel compelled to try again at some point.
Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance was pretty intense, but it's hard to compare, because I was an impressionable 20 year-old when I read it.
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nah000
climber
canuckistan
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Aug 25, 2014 - 01:44am PT
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intellectually heavy: a thousand plateaus by deleuze and guattari
viscerally heavy: naked lunch by burroughs
spiritually heavy: night by wiesel
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Mar 18, 2015 - 12:01pm PT
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http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1593650&tn=4940 Scroll through, back, thirty five pages or so or get into to it and ....
Sad to Say U can tell much If by Kant, tells you how little depth or you knew, John Searle's, works well.
Well either way it was all along time ago. Why I still read deep is in this new age? I find so much out by using the google.
The understanding unleashed to learn is an unbridled, as it were, Free Will See,with all Existance, Fate( Energy Named , Only for nod to ..._ _...since the last time I said it I have suffered death by a thousand cuts)end stop. But as a rule it cures insomnia.
http://www.andrewaasmith.com/A_Secular_View_of_God/Chapter12.php) , With Self Determination AND Some kind of Fate, . . . any definition ... energy, or f_ divine_intervention!
This from the link in brief, last pRgrrrphs,,hum...!
So again there are studies that show some degree of evidence that prayer does lead to a greater chance of healing. But these studies contain procedural or statistical flaws that prevent them from achieving acceptance in the scientific community. This perhaps should not come as any great surprise. If in fact faith healing was provable to any large degree there would no doubt be an enormous mountain of evidence by now that would be able to pass even the most stringent scientific standards. That overwhelming evidence, as we have seen, simply isn't there.
Skeptical organizations have actually offered large sums of money and immense notoriety to anyone who can demonstrate, under strictly controlled conditions, any form of supernatural ability. This also includes such non-religious claims as psychic ability or dowsing. As yet, despite many attempts, no one has collected a single prize. While this does not disprove that such abilities exist, it does caste a degree of doubt on such claims.
Also from the Link,
All of the major religions we will examine in this book are filled with examples of such miracles in their pages. The vast majority of religious people throughout the world believe that God does intervene in the lives of human beings for divine purposes. Many people feel that God has directly intervened in their own lives. So we must acknowledge that some degree of anecdotal evidence does exist in abundance that leans some support to the claims of divine intervention. However, the level of verifiable evidence is simply not high enough to convince the scientific community that there is no naturalistic explanation for these claims.
Some theological theories come readily to mind to explain the inability of any religion to demonstrate supernatural power. Perhaps God refuses to demonstrate supernatural intervention when it is demanded. This could be true whether the asker is a believer or a disbeliever. Perhaps divine intervention occurs, but is so infrequent or subtle that it is simply not distinguishable from the normal, entirely natural occurrences in the lives of the six billion humans on the planet. In any case, if we go solely by the evidence, divine intervention must be taken as a matter of faith. Whether we believe or not is no doubt heavily dependent on what we were taught as children and on what personal experiences with God we have or haven't had. We cannot reasonably demand faith in divine intervention by others, nor can we categorically declare that such things are impossible. As in many things in life, it is ultimately up to the individual to decide for themselves.
We can't of course rule out the possibility of faith healing anymore than we can rule out the existence of ghosts. Both of these widely held views can lay claim to massive levels of anecdotal evidence, but lack the physical evidence and repeatability to satisfy the rigorous demands of the skeptical scientific community. We must conclude, to some degree at least, that these various claims to divine intervention are very much a matter of faith to accept
http://www.strongatheism.net/library/against/impossibility_of_divine_intervention/
Largo >>
The two most common mistakes about consciousness are to suppose that it can be analyzed behavioristically or computationally. The Turing test ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test);; disposes us to make precisely these two mistakes, the mistake of behaviorism and the mistake of computationalism. It leads us to suppose that for a system to be conscious, it is both necessary and sufficient that it has the right computer program or set of programs with the right inputs and outputs. We need only to state this position clearly to see that it must be mistaken.
Hey Randisi I got your PM sorry to get back to you here so many days later.
My small rock hell extends from NYC to the Highlands of New Jersey. Also up as far as Newfoundland, and down south as far as Arkansa. The rocks that I have been posting are in Connecticut.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Mar 18, 2015 - 12:05pm PT
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The heaviest book I ever carried was The Exotica pictorial cyclopedia of plants.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mar 18, 2015 - 06:21pm PT
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A New Kind Of Science, by Wolfram. Read about 300 pages (out of 1200(?)) before I gave up
You got further than I did, Moose. But I still use it occasionally for reference on cellular automata.
I once read a reputable review that claimed that no one has read the entire book. That would be my guess.
As for me, any of several grad math texts I suppose. You read them inch by inch.
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WBraun
climber
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Mar 18, 2015 - 06:32pm PT
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The Chevy Tahoe service manual.
It's like 3 huge metropolitan phone books thick.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Mar 19, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
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Anything by Dr. Seuss
Causality and Chance in Modern Physics by David Bohm (a tiny little book which changed my thinking and my life)
Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Emil Frankl
1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles C. Mann
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 01:47pm PT
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Property by Jesse Dukeminier
I had Dukeminier for family wealth transactions. He was a great professor, and a brave man.
Most profound secular read for me was Specification Searches by Ed Leamer. Although nominally about econometric problems and, as the subtitle goes, "ad hoc estimation with non-experimental data," it engendered a lot of thought on epistemology generally, and how much or little we learn from what we observe.
Nichomachean Ethics didn't seem quite that tough, but at least I read it in English. If I had to try it in Greek, well, forget it!
The Bible remains the most important and profound work for me.
John
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P.Rob
Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
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Mar 19, 2015 - 05:31pm PT
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Earth's low-latitude boundary layer / Patrick T. Newell, Terry Onsager, editors.
A little bit more than a basic primer to Space Physics
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Mar 19, 2015 - 05:40pm PT
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Roger Pendrose Road to reality Yeah, it's a math book. Not done with it yet so it has to rank as the heaviest.
Carver Mead Collective electrodynamics A really different way of going at some basics.
Alexis Tocqueville Democracy in America Get the unabridged version.
Carl Jung Answer to Job http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Answer_to_Job
Lu Dongbin? Secret of the Golden Flower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_of_the_Golden_Flower
The most practically useful,
Dietrich Dorner The Logic of Failure Why really smart people almost always do incredibly stupid things when given enough power.
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nita
Social climber
chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.
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Mar 19, 2015 - 06:46pm PT
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*
The Tao of Pooh by Benjamin Hoff.
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Flip Flop
climber
salad bowl, california
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Mar 19, 2015 - 07:07pm PT
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The Road- Cormac McCarthy
Holy new dads worst nightmare. It's been awhile and the intellectual part is one loud note but heavy and of lasting impact. Like Hemingway in its rawness.
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MH2
Boulder climber
Andy Cairns
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:26pm PT
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I remember it well.
First, there was a story in Boys' Life that fired my imagination. In our Tonawanda library I found a whole shelf of books of its kind. I took one home to read. I understood most of the words, and there was a tantalizing feeling that the way they were put together not only made sense but described a new world of marvelous mechanisms and momentous ideas. It was a world I could not understand. I gave up halfway down page three where a group of important men were sitting at a table and discussing a situation I could not fathom. For me it was back to the more straightforward lessons of Bartholomew, Horton, and Yertle.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Sb54.jpg
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crankster
Trad climber
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Mar 19, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
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Ulysses.
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pb
Sport climber
Sonora Ca
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Mar 19, 2015 - 09:12pm PT
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Hondo
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Curt
climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
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Mar 19, 2015 - 09:54pm PT
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This thing's about as dense as depleted uranium.
Curt
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 10:05pm PT
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Another Roadside Attraction - Tom Robbins! Bring some background to connect the bolts of irony...
... weighty tomes are not the only heavies out there!
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Mar 19, 2015 - 10:33pm PT
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Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 19, 2015 - 10:54pm PT
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Curious George.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Mar 30, 2015 - 03:36pm PT
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love gasoline i gotta agree on both those books...
also, Democracy and Torture by darius rejeali
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plasticmullet
climber
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Mar 30, 2015 - 03:45pm PT
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Warped Passages, heavy even though written for a non-academic audience. Lisa Randall is the bomb!
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JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
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Mar 31, 2015 - 08:21am PT
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"Downward Bound"
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Mar 31, 2015 - 11:03am PT
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I took a senior-level philosophy course at UGA in 1958, and the professor assigned us each a philosopher to write a report about. I can't recall which one I was given, but I couldn't make heads or tails out of his writings, which seemed vague, ambiguous, and self-contradictory. When I asked the boss about this he chuckled and said "Always read commentary about the philosopher first, then you may be able to understand what he tries to say."
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Mar 31, 2015 - 11:18am PT
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the Lorax
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rockgymnast
Trad climber
Virginia
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Mar 31, 2015 - 11:26am PT
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I have always been a math and science nerd. 40 years after I graduated from college, I finally decided I would read Isaac Newton's "The Principia".
I found it fascinating even though I could fathom, or grasp (at the most) only the main theme/concept of his theories; the rest (the math and especially the trig/geometry) was way over my head.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mar 31, 2015 - 12:03pm PT
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"Always read commentary about the philosopher first, then you may be able to understand what he tries to say."
Funny, but true of so much, John. I wonder about the extent to which "The Emperor's New Clothes" describes our academic existence.
John
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jstan
climber
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Mar 31, 2015 - 12:50pm PT
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Warped Passages, heavy even though written for a non-academic audience. Lisa Randall is the bomb!
She gave another talk at Cern that was the next level above her "Warped Passages" talk. The idea being what the LHC should look for assuming there are extra dimensions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKejAW0IaDA
Though a climber her professional accomplishments are most astounding. She was the first woman to make tenure in physics departments at several of the most prominent universities in the NE. Look it up.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Mar 31, 2015 - 01:02pm PT
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The White Spider
Heavy man, heavy..
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Mar 31, 2015 - 01:03pm PT
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The White Spider by Heinrich Harrer
Heavy man, heavy..
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
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Mar 31, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
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The Gulag Archipelago 1918-1956 by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.
It may be an exaggeration, but then it might not, to ascribe the fall of the USSR to this book.
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