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Reggaemylitis
Sport climber
Sacramento, CA
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I think once all parties involved have time to cool down, they will see that the tactic they are using is doomed to fail. You may not like it, but the NPS and the "Shitstem" as we know it are not going anywhere anytime soon.
Yes, there are bad cops/rangers, just like there are climbers/BASE jumpers making the rest of us look bad (not saying this about Ammon in particular, just generalizing like those of you generalizing about "The Man") by trashing cliff bases, resisting arrest for things they knew would get them arrested (right or wrong, leaving them drowned or tased), and trying to generate an anti-Ranger\LEO sentiment amongst the various communities. Those conflicts have always been there, and always will be, as long as we have humans involved or running things.
The concept of Civil Disobebience as I understand it, is you conduct a protest in a respectful manner to all parties involved, knowing full well the consquences, and hope that all those there to witness it see the injustice and ban together to apply pressure to the powers that be to change the law (or whatever this ban on BASE is). Said powers that be, out of respect for the protestor's bravery and integrity in dealing with the matter, become embarassed at their behavior, see the error of their ways, and both sides come to a mutually beneficial understanding. What is going on here sounds about as far from this as your cause can possibly be. That is what I would shoot for.
And just to be clear, I am as anti-establishment as they come. But looking at this from the outside in, the revolutionary approach leads nowhere in America. I understand the anger, I just think it will continue to leave you frustrated IMHO.
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Argon
climber
North Bay, CA
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The tasing in Utah of the barbecue burglar looks pretty justifiable:
WHITE CITY, Utah (AP) -- Police say a man held an intruder at bay with a grilling fork and boning knife until police arrived. But the suspect fled, only to be arrested after he was zapped with a Taser.
Unified police Lt. Don Hutson says the White City resident grabbed the barbecue implements when he found the intruder had entered through a basement window about 7:20 a.m. Tuesday.
When police arrived, the resident put down the makeshift weaponry and the intruder made a run for it.
He allegedly punched the officer and hopped several neighborhood fences before the officer used the Taser.
Hutson says the 26-year-old suspect was taken to Salt Lake County Jail for investigation of aggravated assault on a police officer and burglary.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Homeowner to burglar: Fork You!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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He wasn't by chance wearing a squirrel suit was he?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Skip to 5:00 to avoid 5:00 of mindless bullsh#t.
Edit: around 18:50 he says he was "just walking" when he was tased.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Unfortunately that interview reveals very little of the incident. Although the just walking part and being tased in the neck is very disturbing. I guess we will just have to wait and hear more as time passes.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Base, YOU stated as a fact that the use of a Taser was using "deadly force"
It is NOT. You may like to think it should be, but a taser is not a pistol,
and such it is NOT used to "kill". Its purpose is to "subdue".
Next, you state that if a "suspect" "takes" a taser away from an officer,
that that action then elevates the officer to legally now use "deadly force", as in shooting the suspect with his service pistol.
WRONG again. Not that simple. Lots of variables. The suspect could take it
away and throw it to the ground for example. Just simply taking it away, as you say,
does NOT give the officer the legal right to shoot the suspect (deadly force)
Now, IF IF IF the suspect does take the taser away and USES it against the
office, then THAT qualifies the officer to pull his pistol.
Semantics, and literal words mean what they say.
When you make definite statements like the above, then you have the responsibility to make sure what you say is accurate, is factually true.
I have checked, and rechecked, the above with a local Police Officer.
What source, what set of laws, are you basing your statement of fact upon?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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If you are asking for facts on this site, you are asking for miracles.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Who's park is it? the NPS or ours? the public
It's not yours, not mine. It is theirs.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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No one has "freedoms" in National Parks.
They are open to the public, IF the public follows the rules.
The "rules" mean you agree to abide by them, or choose not to visit the park.
No one is truly "free". Laws and rules and norms dictate behavior.
We can always move to a country with no government or laws for "real" freedom.
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BASE1361
climber
Yosemite Valley National Park
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And I can tell you that while seeing a jumper looks totally insane, an actual terminal velocity jump like El Cap is without a doubt the most surreal and visually beautiful experience that I can imagine. You don't feel like things are whizzing by quickly. Time dilates, it all slows down, and at least in my case, your mind achieves total clarity. Then you toss your pilot chute, get things squared away, and go into absolute escape mode.
Well said and very true. Nothing in the world compares to this. Nothing.
Norton: Amnesty International - 156 deaths in U.S. after Taser use by police. This is from 2002.
So from 1994 to 2002 we have an average of 19.5 fatalities a year. This would possibly bring us to a total of 312 fatalities in 2010??
http://blogs.kansascity.com/crime_scene/files/amnesty_international_156_deaths_in_u.S.%20after%20Taser%20use%20by%20police.pdf
You are uneducated on the effects of a taser and how "deadly" it is. In 32+ years there less number of BASE fatalities as there are taser related fatalities.
From Taser International: In June 1994, a non-firearm version of the Taser was developed, allowing it to bypass federal and state laws that only apply to firearms, and a tracking system (the "anti-felon identification" or "AFID" system) was created. This enables the Taser to disperse confetti with serial numbers when it is fired and links the specific Taser to the scene where it is used.
In 1998, the company adopted its current name, intending to emphasize the company's international expansion. In the same year, the company began marketing the weapon to law enforcement agencies and police departments, in addition to the private buyers who had bought Tasers for personal self-protection in prior years.
312 fatalities since 1994 lets say? Which is more deadly? BASE or a Taser??
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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It's a cruel, cruel world out there Base. Break the law and suffer the consequences, just or unjust. You ought to talk to a few minority offenders about unjust and over the top treatment they have received for relatively minor infractions. I would like to see climbers stand up for their rights rather than winning about perceived injustice.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Somebody needs to grow up on the LEO end.
I would say that somebody needs to grow up on both ends. Neither side has much to be proud of.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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There are MANY stories where police have not chased down a minor offender (like stop sign runner) to later find out that the criminal has gone on to do something worse.
Running from the cops is against the law, they don't like it, and they don't know you a lot of the time.
Ammon is not out doing big crimes but Yosemite is cracking down on BASE when they can.
The Federal Judge has said bring these people in.
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Federal Judge = God ?
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Sheik aka JD
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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A few anecdotes...
Once I was at the base of Half Dome at o-dark-thirty, getting ready for a climb, when the sound of falling refrigerators came screaming down the wall. We thought for sure we were dead from rockfall. After diving into the boulders and bushes we looked up and saw two frikkin' BASE jumpers in flight suits go whipping by. Pretty cool, until I felt the pain in my twisted ankle and had to hobble miles of terrain back to camp. That sucked. The rangers did eventually help though, with crutches, a horse, first aid, and a minimal insurance bill.
My family, close friends and I once fought a significant police brutality case. One rarely wins in that situation...false charges that typically get bargained into a plea (even if you did nothing wrong; it's often easier to take the plea bargain), time, money, physical pain, punitive damages, you against the system, etc. That sucked.
I've hung with the Brothers McNeely. They can get crazy. Good people though.
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ejw
climber
Nomadia, Gypsyville
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From the last page of "The Great Book of BASE"- this is a quote from Matt Gerdes regarding the death of Frank Gambalie in Yosemite.
"Frank was one of the most progressive and talented BASE jumpers of his time. Tragically, he drowned in the Merced River while being chased by Yosemite NPS rangers after a jump in June, 1999. Amongst the stated goals of the National Park Service are: Excellent Service, Citizen Involvement, and Wise Decisions.
Regardless of the exact details of Frank's death, it is very difficult to understand how the Yosemite NPS's history of manning stake-outs and chasing BASE jumpers fits into any aspect of the NPS mission statement. One would think that Park Rangers should have better things to do, regardless of whether BASE jumping is actually prohibited by an obscure law that was written 40 years before the sport existed. While you may not feel the call to activism or think that you have the time or energy for it, if you value our public lands and your passion for outdoor recreation then consider making your voice heard by protesting bad NPS policy in any way you see fit. We live in a country that was founded on "Citizen Involvement", and nothing will ever change unless we get really, totally involved."
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Maybe I can get ME a taser.
Watch out, fatty! I might zap ya just for sport. ;-)
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Man, I guess you ARE Evil!
I was thinking tasers at ten paces, you know, like gentlemonkeys.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Crossed tasers at dawn, El Cap meadow!
Edit: Seems rather pirate-like, doesn't it?
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