Tahquitz Graffiti

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Mountain climber

there and back again

Mar 1, 2011 - 06:23pm PT

Anders the stuff is called Motsenbockers Lift Off. Its from Germany and you can get it at Home Depot. It comes in 5 different types depending on what you want removed. Good luck.

TGT

Social climber

So Cal

Mar 1, 2011 - 06:38pm PT

I've considered some kind of association to benefit the climbing areas of the San Jacinto mountains as well- I've wondered how much interest there would be in the local climbing community to help support it in the way of membership.

There already is a nascent one.

ICA

A couple of trail work days last year. One planning for May as well.

BenC

climber

Ithaca, Ny

Mar 1, 2011 - 06:53pm PT

Here is a report about a cave clean-up that has removed a significant amount of graffiti.

http://www.nckms.org/2005/pdf/Papers/Jasper-sandblasting.pdf

Longish read but may provide some good information from a similar perspective; scroll down to the before after pictures. This does require a generator (as I think some have mentioned earlier).

In retrospect after re-reading the before/after pictures may be the only useful information.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Mar 1, 2011 - 08:51pm PT

OK, I got a message from the Removall people, and they still have a dealer here in Vancouver. Now I have to visit the store, see if they have a suitable sub-product. If that doesn't work, the Tagitall or the Motsenbockers Liftoff may be an alternative - although I wouldn't be surprised if they had much the same ingredients, chemistry being what it is.

guyman

Trad climber

Moorpark, CA.

Mar 1, 2011 - 09:52pm PT

Great topic, I climb at Stoney Point, ground zero for graffiti.

Nothing works, sandblasting removes the top patina layer. This layer is the hard layer and once blasted, the problems fall off. A city crew showed up once to blast away. Lucky for us Bob Kamps, the smart person he was, had the number for city parks and knew who to ask for. The day was saved and where the blasting occurred is now a large soft spot on Boulder 1.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Mar 15, 2011 - 06:32pm PT

Today's update. Found a local supplier of Removall, visited. Probably old stock, and they didn't seem very familiar with it. They had two varieties:
"Architectural Paint Remover" ($79) and "Industrial Paint Remover" ($59). Both 3.8 litres, both with same instructions. Slather on, wait several hours, power wash off. (I'll have to use a stiff brush and water.) Does anyone know which is better for removing graffiti (brushed or sprayed on) from granite? Fairly rough, often featured rock.

They had another product called Smart Strip, which seems to be based on the same idea, and maybe even the same chemicals. (Perhaps Tagitall is also?) It comes in a 1 l tub for $23, with similar instructions.

When removing graffiti at Squamish, the cure may not be a lot better than the disease, given that the process also removes any moss, lichens, etc. They take several years to grow back. However, a local plant person has provided some advice as to how encourage the regrowth. Imagine, growing moss and lichen at Squamish...

Spider Savage

Mountain climber

SoCal

Mar 15, 2011 - 07:44pm PT

Used Removall at Josh early this year.

If rock is porous, yer screwed.

Tip. Apply stripper, scrub & reapply about 2 more times before washing off. Any brand works. Copious amounts of water help.

Super toxic secret formula: Wash away stripper with laquer thinner. (explosively flammable)

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Mar 15, 2011 - 08:16pm PT

Graffiti is to be expected at Tahquitz, didn't most climbers that go there learn their craft at Stony Point?

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Mar 16, 2011 - 12:47am PT

Where are the graffiti-geeks when you need them, anyway?

rurprider

Trad climber

Mt. Rubidoux

Mar 16, 2011 - 01:19am PT

Although regrettable the graffiti at Tahquitz shouldn't be a big surprise as this has become a growing problem at other areas (ie. Joshua Tree, Red Rocks, Zion...). If you haven't gotten upset about it and chased a tagger out of your neighborhood you shouldn't be surprised and/or upset. The park regulations at the Santa Monica National Recreation Area state that spray paint cans are NOT permitted outside a residence. Home Depot checks your Driver's license to see that you're over 21 to purchase a can of spray paint. HELLO!! This is a huge problem EVERYWHERE!!! Get involved, be part of the solution.

Spider Savage

Mountain climber

SoCal

Mar 16, 2011 - 01:37am PT

Harsh donini. Always harshing Californians. It's wearing at my self esteem.

apogee

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 16, 2011 - 02:21am PT

"...the cure may not be a lot better than the disease, given that the process also removes any moss, lichens, etc. They take several years to grow back..."

I've been concerned about the same issue of toxicity to the surrounding flora- the north side of Tahquitz has a lot of chinquapin & azalea, the latter of which is particularly striking in the late spring/early summer. It would really suck to strip the graffiti, only to wind up with a hazmat deadzone within 50' of the site.

MH, I'll be monitoring your experiences with Removall- be sure to post up here. Not sure exactly where your 'site' is at Squamish, but in general, it sounds like it has similar parameters & limitations to this one at Tahquitz: 45 minute hike in, granite, no access to power, sand or corn blasting isn't an option, and the only water available is what you hike in.

Edit: Just did some searching for RemovAll- the mfr's website didn't have particularly explicit directions on how to use, but in describing useful tools to aid the process, the specified 'running water' and 'power washing'. I found Motsenbocker 4 as well, and ordered some- it sounds reasonably environmentally friendly- hopefully it won't require a powerwasher and 600 gallons of water...

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

May 24, 2011 - 02:12am PT

A graffiti removal project at Squamish today, using Removall. It worked quite well - an orange gel, which you slather on. Wait a while, then brush, rinse, brush, rinse, etc, using a soft brush. (Or a pressure washer, if feasible and appropriate.) Reapply and repeat as needed. The stuff isn't cheap, but was quite effective.

rrrADAM

Trad climber

LBMF

May 24, 2011 - 10:31am PT

Boo! That sux!

I've seen stuff like that at other crags, but ones that are much easier to reach... Long trek in just to tag a rock.

From Currahee Mountain in, Georgia:

This is a neat little .10c named "Jesus Lives", named after the green graffiti of a cross with the words 'Jesus Lives' below it, left by some local rednecks decades ago... If you look, you can see the cross on the wall at left.

Same place...
More green spray paint, that says:
"No homos or nigggars aloud!"
Most of that phrase is washed out in the sun.

Some unknown climber at the same place:

Like I said... Rednecks.

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

May 24, 2011 - 10:35am PT

Somebody has to adorn the rocks, they didn't have any Anasazi in the area.

Stewart Johnson

climber

lake forest

May 24, 2011 - 11:05am PT

its not just the rock climbing areas.
painted trail markers suck also.

apogee

climber

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2011 - 08:38pm PT

Well, it took a while, but today was the day to do a little service project on Tahquitz- the graffiti I discovered there last summer has been on my 'to do' list for a long time.

If you remember, the site of this graffiti is on the far north side of Tahquitz, between the starts of the Northeast Face East & El Grandote. A remote place for a tagger to hit, to be sure, which made it all the more offensive. (See the OP for a pic of the location.)

After a little web-research, and after considering the experience of several people earlier in this thread, I ordered a product called 'Motsenbocker's Lift-Off'- it's one of the products several people suggested, and it's biodegradable. (It has a citrus-y smell kinda like Pedro's bike component cleaners.) I stuffed this in my old Gregory Denali, along with a bunch of other tools:

Not being exactly sure what I would need, I came loaded for bear: the LiftOff, a tank sprayer, and several types of brushes, including a drill w/ wire brush. Figured I'd start out with the softer stuff, and see what worked. Here's what it looked like when I started today:

Though it was nice to have a (supposedly) biodegradable product for this project, I was a little skeptical as to how well it would work. I followed the directions: spray it on, leave for 5 minutes, spray off with water. This didn't remove anything, so I started with a plastic brush- also not very effective. Bumped up to a wire brush (the grey handled one), and between that and a little elbow grease, it started coming off. I rinsed it, and in a couple of places, re-applied and scrubbed some more. After several rounds, this is how it looked afterward:

Not bad at all! If you study it closely, there are very faint traces left, but if you didn't know it was there in the first place, I figure most people will never notice it. All told, I spent about 1 1/2 hours scrubbing at it, plus some sweat in humping up the tools and 2 1/2 gallons of water from the creek below.

Very few people knew about this graffiti, and it was in a very remote location that isn't commonly visited- still, it's been a burr under my saddle for a long time, and I'm psyched to have removed (most of) it.