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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 28, 2010 - 02:15pm PT
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I was up at Tahquitz a couple of days ago, and was very much angered and saddened to find this at the base of the crag:
This graffiti is located between the NE Face route and El Grandote- not sure how long it has been there, though it did look like someone had made some valiant (but ineffective) efforts to remove it- some minor chipping of the paint was evident.
If anyone has any suggestions for removal methods that won't turn the whole area into a hazmat dead zone, or requires hauling up multi-ton equipment, I'd be much obliged. There have been increasing incidences of graffiti in the San Jacinto mountains in the last 20 years, most of it occurring on roadside boulders or slabs, and on some of the boulders around major parking or trailhead areas (i.e. Humber Park). This is the first time I've seen it so far into a backcountry area.
I really try to be tolerant and compassionate towards other humans....I really do. But when I see this kind of abuse well into the backcountry, it incites a level of rage and anger that really challenges my best efforts towards compassion and understanding of my fellow human beings.
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Aug 28, 2010 - 02:19pm PT
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That's just so F*#KING SICK!!!=(
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Aug 28, 2010 - 02:23pm PT
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WTF???
Dude, thats an hour hike for a gangbanger.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater
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Aug 28, 2010 - 02:56pm PT
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WHAT THE F*#K?! I love Tahquitz. That kind of sh#t has to f*#king stop. If dumb-f*#k kids want to spraypaint bullshit all over railroad cars, then let them. But not a place like Tahquitz! I wish I'd caught them. I'd have broken their f*#king fingers...
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 02:57pm PT
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"This has gone too far and it's time to take it back."
Indeed. Let's try to keep this thread bumped for a little while until those with good beta on removal can suggest the best removal strategy. (Thanks for the suggestions, Cragman & stzzo.)
I'm all for getting out there asap and getting this cleaned up, but that does seem like a re-active approach to the problem. I'd be interested to hear suggestions for more pro-active approaches, i.e. how do we keep this from happening in the future. I'm having a hard time thinking of such strategies, but I'm sure there are others out there who have dealt with this problem much more than I have.
Edit:
taco bill's suggestion (in the thread link from Mike, above) sounds worthy- RemovAll 320 or 330, though it sounds like it requires a fair amount of water and time (like most of the day). I wonder how toxic that stuff is, too- the slab is surrounded by azalea shrubs.
http://www.dtep-archive.com/removall320.htm
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 03:35pm PT
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It would be interesting to know how long this graffiti has been there- I was in that same area about a month ago and didn't notice it, but it's possible I could have simply missed it.
Edit to below:
Oooooo...that's an intriguing idea, TBum. If anyone has some good graphic skills and can draw something up, we could post it along the climber approach trails halfway or so towards Tahquitz. It would need to be easily/cheaply reproduce-able, since it probably wouldn't last forever.
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TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
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Aug 28, 2010 - 03:41pm PT
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Perhaps a sign. One with a simple traffic graphic logo.
A guy hanging off (tied off to his balls) an overhanging cliff (upside down) with huge exposure and he's simul shitting his pants and dropping his spray can. The text might read something like "Beware of lurking climber snares"!
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aug 28, 2010 - 05:00pm PT
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I have had some success with using a battery powered grinder with a wire buffing wheel. Might give it a try.
-----
Hope you do. Terrible development. Amazing someone would trudge all the way up there to do a little tagging.
JL
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 05:05pm PT
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OK, here's an idea: I did a quick & dirty workup of a sign that could be easily & cheaply re-printed and replaced as necessary. This sign could be placed along the climber's trails to both Tahquitz (west & north approaches) & Suicide. It would make sense to place it far enough up the trail that it is well away from the frontcountry trailhead touron hordes- by doing so, it is most likely to be seen by climbers, or the scumbag tagger who is planning on hitting the crags. Here's a quick workup:
I'm not wed to any of the language- if anyone has suggestions for changes/additions, bring 'em on. I do think it needs to have strong language that is just short of sounding physically threatening (or it is more likely to create resistance from land managers in the area).
The sign could be laminated and replaced if weathered or stolen. By monitoring it's presence, and perhaps placing it in the local gyms & retail stores, as well as climber forums like this, perhaps it will help raise a little more awareness, and help keep eyes open for this kind of abuse.
That's just one suggestion. Anybody got anything else?
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jstan
climber
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Aug 28, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
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The sign will be seriously tagged, which is good.
At a point on the sign that will obviously be spray painted you mount a light detector with circuitry that detects any significant light change taking less than one second. Such an event would be wirelessly broadcast and LEO alerted. If the taggers are not alerted in any way they will be an easy pick.
Dirtineye had several precautions about removal. His stuff needs to be brought forward.
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BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Aug 28, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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That sh*t has been there for several years, I think. It's now protected under 'cultural diversity' statutes...
BH
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Aug 28, 2010 - 06:51pm PT
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I've been removing graffiti from some Santa Barbara sandstone for the last five days.
Sandstone is way more porous than granite-so you might have an advantage. The most effective(but not perfect) has been Jasco paint and epoxy stripper. The brush on stuff is better than the spray-but the spray is easier to control for the most part. I then used a wire brush and kept spraying it with water from a spray bottle. When I had removed as much as I could I rinsed it with water and a nylon bristle brush.
Good luck
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 06:51pm PT
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Will do, eKat. Thanks for the suggestion.
Jim- aren't those Jasco products pretty harsh (environmentally)?
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Aug 28, 2010 - 06:53pm PT
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This really sucks. I like the poster BTW. Gloves are off if taggers get caught.
Dirt and I had a lot of long discussions on graffiti removal. The link about the "Removal" products is good and you should give it a read. The graffiti removal at Yosemite was done with Removal. It's a slow process and requires hauling up some garden sprayers and patience but the product is a way less toxic alternative. It claims to be bio-degradable, but you still don't want it on your skin BTW.
Dirt was vehemently anti- wire grinding wheels and wire brushes, but I always secretly disagreed a bit thinking it's really more situational and depends on the type of rock. With this Tahquitz graffiti it might be worth a shot since it's granite and it's so hard to haul water up there.
I've also observed that- if left alone- regular weathering, time and sun will often fade and obliterate graffiti. I was all set to go into Malibu Creek to remove some red graffiti that appeared during the summer last year and rain and sun had done most of the job for me.
Edit to add: I'd advise against Jasco. Jasco works great... because it is EXTREMELY caustic. It should not be used anywhere where people may come into contact with the treated surface. You just can't really wash it off a natural stone and even if you do... that toxic crap is going into the dirt/plants etc. The residue can last for months and can still cause skin reactions.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Aug 28, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
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Apogee.
I don't know of ANY friendly product :(
A year ago I tried just a wire brush. It produced very poor results and started to screw up the sandstone. You ended up with scratched up paint and rock. Actually looked kinda worse than before I started.
So I did nothing. Hoped it would just wear away with the weather. The bad thing is that other taggers started to add to it. Some sorta moronic "one upsmanship" I guess. So I decided to try to remove some of the more prominent stuff.
I try to be careful with the product and use it sparingly. I also do it on hot days, so the stuff evaporates pretty quickly.
I'm all for other suggestions. Sometimes the County comes through to take care of it, but they just use that horrible gray epoxy paint-which, again, almost looks worse than the original problem.
Edit: I'd love to use a pressure washer, I'm sure that would do a great job. It's just some of the areas are hard to get to. And all water would have to be hauled in. I'm not terribly happy using any thing other than water. But trying to lift the paint out of the sandstone has proven difficult.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Aug 28, 2010 - 08:07pm PT
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We used Removall. Here's the link http://www.dtep.com/removall.htm
You have to be patient and depending on how long the paint has been there determines how much scrubbing. Granite can handle some scrubbing, sandstone would not. I would start on a small area first trying softer brushes first and stiffer brushes if needed. Once you have perfected the technique and are happy with the results you can do bigger patches. I would not treat the whole thing at once as it might just smear. After loosening paint try to dab it off first when wet before you go for the big rinse. Ask Zander, he was involved with the Gunsight cleanup and could be more helpful about technique. Good luck!
Ken
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10b4me
Ice climber
Happy Boulders
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Aug 28, 2010 - 09:22pm PT
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that is totally f'd up.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Aug 28, 2010 - 09:39pm PT
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Wow...that is a sad sight. I love that place, and just can't wrap my mind around the kind of motivations that would compel someone to do something like that. I know it's not genocide, or anything, but that kind of stuff in a place so beautiful really gets me ticked.
I like your idea of a sign, Apogee. I do wonder, though, if a strong reaction and warning to what the perps did might contribute to their sense of power. Just a thought, but I wonder if something along the lines of: "Have you seen the immature _(fill the in the blank)_(s) who did this? If so, call: _." Kind of like acknowledging that they are "unfortunately special," rather than powerful or outlaws.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Aug 28, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
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why not set up some signs....danger! rattlesnake breeding area, at the trailhead...anybody stupid enough to be into grafitti would probably fall for such a sign and stay away....? rj
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
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Just make sure the sign is bilingual.
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 10:26pm PT
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I was hoping a(nother) local would chime in- thanks for the word, x15.
The graffiti does look like it's been there a while- it appears somewhat faded and a bit worn- but if it really has been around for some time, it's probably not going to be wearing away anytime soon.
I'm still motivated to figure out a way to eradicate it- it just bugs the sh#t outta me knowing that kind of urban blight has found it's way to one of my favorite crags. If it's been there for some time, it may be tough to remove; on the other hand, since it's granite, maybe it will respond well. Sadly, what is learned in this process might come in handy on some of the other tagging sites around Idyllwild.
If this has been around a while, the sign idea might be pointless- it would seem that if that site was the first in a wave of similar attacks, we would have seen more on Tahquitz or Suicide since then. (Thusfar, 'frontcountry' boulders have been victimized most frequently around here.) Perhaps it's better to remove the Tahquitz graffiti, and in the event more shows up, go on the offense.
Hearing others thoughts would be helpful on this one.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
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It's been there for at least five years and has faded quite a bit.
Any chemical removal process would probably do more harm than good.
Mechanical removal would just leave a more permanent etching of the words in the stone.
Sad, but probably the best option is to just continue to let it fade.
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 11:21pm PT
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Five years??!! I can't believe it hasn't been noticed enough to raise a stink in one climber circle or another. I spend a lot of time on that side of the crag- can't believe I haven't noticed it, either.
Still, 'this aggression cannot stand' (The Dude). Given how far out there it is, I doubt that erasing it is going to spur a one-upsmanship reaction from another tagger. Removing it is worth a try- perhaps test one method vs. another before going after it. Making no attempt to remove it and knowing it is there just sickens me.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2010 - 11:27pm PT
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Sickens me every time I see it and one up-man-ship is not an issue given the generally short non incarcerated life span of cholos.
Still, any hasty removal attempt could end up doing far more harm than good.
One thing that did occur to me,
Does anyone know how to accelerate the growth of lichen?
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2010 - 11:33pm PT
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"Does anyone know how to accelerate the growth of lichen? "
The massive amount of fertilizer that sprays from the orifices of Palin & Beck might do the trick. On the other hand, it might decimate the area.
Ooops....polititard thread drift. My bad.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 28, 2010 - 11:51pm PT
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Improving lichen growth
Lichen in the Gunks has been greatly reduced because the rain there has been getting steadily more acidic. The same has to be happening there to the east of LA. So possibly an experiment involving adjustment of pH would be useful.
Not climbing on the rock is also beneficial,
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2010 - 11:57pm PT
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All this stuff is at the base and not near any climbs. The rocks do get a lot of sun and not much water to speak of so getting lichen to grow Ain't happen-in.
Still, it would be really easy to do far more damage with a poor removal plan.
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2010 - 12:23am PT
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I'm more hesitant to use a chemical treatment (even RemovAll 320, which is supposed to be fairly 'green') than to try a mechanical method like wire brushing. Though it risks leaving some rock scarring and 'ghosting', it is granite which is pretty tough. Personally, TGT, I'd rather see the 'ghosting' from a wire brush attempt than to leave that blemish there for years to come with the hopes that it will fade.
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Gabe
climber
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Aug 29, 2010 - 04:01am PT
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We're all watching and waiting for you.... who is SMS and V. CAMPO? did you really sign your name genius?
edited so that level heads may prevail........
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Aug 29, 2010 - 05:59am PT
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Thanx so much Apogee for doing your best to keep the real still real...And to my super old time mate BH for putting his input on this! It's just sad...
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Lucke
Trad climber
Claremont, CA
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Aug 31, 2010 - 02:52pm PT
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I have been in contact with the Access Fund about this problem and one suggestion for the graffiti problem and the trash/scat problem mentioned in another thread is to put up "Tread Lightly" signs/posters which they are preparing. While this may not be as satisfying as threatening the graffiti punks it should have more effect.
The bigger problem it raises is who can speak and act for Tahquitz and Suicide? I'd like to see a climbers association formed to provide stewardship for this climbing area. Is there anyone out there who would like to join up?
I am trying to arrange an Adopt-a-Crag day in October to work on the trail that leads from Lunch Rock around the west side of Tahquitz. Are you interested?
Jim
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
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I've considered some kind of association to benefit the climbing areas of the San Jacinto mountains as well- I've wondered how much interest there would be in the local climbing community to help support it in the way of membership. I am currently a board member with another climbing advocacy group and have some experience in operating such an organization, and I'm also keenly aware of how challenging it can be to keep it moving effectively.
Though I would imagine there would be quite a few who would support such an organization, I would guess there would also be those who would rather not see something like this for one reason or another. I would be curious to hear opinions on such a formation, no matter what the position.
Re: Lunch Rock project
Possibly interested, though I'm pretty buried with an event in that month for the advocacy group I work with. Float the dates and I'll see if I can make it work.
RE: the OP
I received word from Bob Gaines the other day that corroborates BH & x15's observation that that graffiti has been there for years. Though I've been in that area many-a-time since then, I'm embarassed to say I only recently noticed it! Still, now that I know it's there, I'm inclined to do something to remove it. The beta that has been posted thusfar has been very helpful- keep it comin'.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 18, 2011 - 01:29am PT
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Can anyone advise as to where to get Removall, of the type suitable for removing paint from rock? Oddly, the company which made it was called Napier Environmental Technologies, and based near Vancouver. But they seem to have been sold to a South African firm called Free World Coatings. I haven't had much luck trying to contact either via the web address provided, or just buying the stuff online.
If no one knows where Removall is available, how about some similar product? That is, some more or less environmentally friendly product that one can use to remove paint from rock. Slather it on, wait a while, brush and rinse. Or something like that.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Feb 18, 2011 - 01:44am PT
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I use tagginator. Here's an example of the work we did with it a two weekends ago:
http://pullharder.org/2011/02/10/mt-woodson-paint-removal/
It takes the paint off with no damage to the rock. It's a base, so it's corrosive, but I think that gets buffered out by the earth and doesn't persist as long as organic solvents. It's advertised as "environmentally friendly."
If you're in SD, I could see if you could borrow from the Allied Climbers of San Diego's stock pile.
It requires scrubbing, multiple applications, and a rinse off with water (which can be hard to hike to the base). If you're interested in more information, please let me know.
Josh
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 18, 2011 - 12:49pm PT
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Thanks - I'll see whether I hear anything back from either company. If not, maybe I'll look into Tagginator. Vancouver is a big enough place that there's bound to be something suitable available here.
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Feb 18, 2011 - 02:41pm PT
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Anders,
Our club has done two grafitti removal days. I emailed my buddy for the name of the stuff. Its made in Germany and is non toxic. We had to go through a bunch of hoops because it was a State Park. It worked well on Schist but not so great on Tuff. I think he trick is ti let it sit a while
I'll PM you when I get word back.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 18, 2011 - 04:53pm PT
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Thanks, all! The context is that the graffiti is often 30 to 60 minutes hike from the nearest road, and there is no water or power available. So, short of industrial level work, all I've got is what I can carry. The remover product, 30 - 40 litres of water, soft brushes, and so on. Pressure washing, and 'blasting' with corn or anything else, aren't likely options.
The rock is granitic, though, and time not an issue. No problem to apply the product, give it some time, wash and brush off, reapply, and so on. Particularly as some of the graffiti is painted rather than sprayed.
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Anders the stuff is called Motsenbockers Lift Off. Its from Germany and you can get it at Home Depot. It comes in 5 different types depending on what you want removed. Good luck.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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I've considered some kind of association to benefit the climbing areas of the San Jacinto mountains as well- I've wondered how much interest there would be in the local climbing community to help support it in the way of membership.
There already is a nascent one.
ICA
A couple of trail work days last year. One planning for May as well.
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BenC
climber
Ithaca, Ny
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Here is a report about a cave clean-up that has removed a significant amount of graffiti.
http://www.nckms.org/2005/pdf/Papers/Jasper-sandblasting.pdf
Longish read but may provide some good information from a similar perspective; scroll down to the before after pictures. This does require a generator (as I think some have mentioned earlier).
In retrospect after re-reading the before/after pictures may be the only useful information.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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OK, I got a message from the Removall people, and they still have a dealer here in Vancouver. Now I have to visit the store, see if they have a suitable sub-product. If that doesn't work, the Tagitall or the Motsenbockers Liftoff may be an alternative - although I wouldn't be surprised if they had much the same ingredients, chemistry being what it is.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Great topic, I climb at Stoney Point, ground zero for graffiti.
Nothing works, sandblasting removes the top patina layer. This layer is the hard layer and once blasted, the problems fall off. A city crew showed up once to blast away. Lucky for us Bob Kamps, the smart person he was, had the number for city parks and knew who to ask for. The day was saved and where the blasting occurred is now a large soft spot on Boulder 1.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 15, 2011 - 06:32pm PT
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Today's update. Found a local supplier of Removall, visited. Probably old stock, and they didn't seem very familiar with it. They had two varieties:
"Architectural Paint Remover" ($79) and "Industrial Paint Remover" ($59). Both 3.8 litres, both with same instructions. Slather on, wait several hours, power wash off. (I'll have to use a stiff brush and water.) Does anyone know which is better for removing graffiti (brushed or sprayed on) from granite? Fairly rough, often featured rock.
They had another product called Smart Strip, which seems to be based on the same idea, and maybe even the same chemicals. (Perhaps Tagitall is also?) It comes in a 1 l tub for $23, with similar instructions.
When removing graffiti at Squamish, the cure may not be a lot better than the disease, given that the process also removes any moss, lichens, etc. They take several years to grow back. However, a local plant person has provided some advice as to how encourage the regrowth. Imagine, growing moss and lichen at Squamish...
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Mar 15, 2011 - 07:44pm PT
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Used Removall at Josh early this year.
If rock is porous, yer screwed.
Tip. Apply stripper, scrub & reapply about 2 more times before washing off. Any brand works. Copious amounts of water help.
Super toxic secret formula: Wash away stripper with laquer thinner. (explosively flammable)
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Mar 15, 2011 - 08:16pm PT
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Graffiti is to be expected at Tahquitz, didn't most climbers that go there learn their craft at Stony Point?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 16, 2011 - 12:47am PT
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Where are the graffiti-geeks when you need them, anyway?
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rurprider
Trad climber
Mt. Rubidoux
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Mar 16, 2011 - 01:19am PT
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Although regrettable the graffiti at Tahquitz shouldn't be a big surprise as this has become a growing problem at other areas (ie. Joshua Tree, Red Rocks, Zion...). If you haven't gotten upset about it and chased a tagger out of your neighborhood you shouldn't be surprised and/or upset. The park regulations at the Santa Monica National Recreation Area state that spray paint cans are NOT permitted outside a residence. Home Depot checks your Driver's license to see that you're over 21 to purchase a can of spray paint. HELLO!! This is a huge problem EVERYWHERE!!! Get involved, be part of the solution.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Mar 16, 2011 - 01:37am PT
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Harsh donini. Always harshing Californians. It's wearing at my self esteem.
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 16, 2011 - 02:21am PT
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"...the cure may not be a lot better than the disease, given that the process also removes any moss, lichens, etc. They take several years to grow back..."
I've been concerned about the same issue of toxicity to the surrounding flora- the north side of Tahquitz has a lot of chinquapin & azalea, the latter of which is particularly striking in the late spring/early summer. It would really suck to strip the graffiti, only to wind up with a hazmat deadzone within 50' of the site.
MH, I'll be monitoring your experiences with Removall- be sure to post up here. Not sure exactly where your 'site' is at Squamish, but in general, it sounds like it has similar parameters & limitations to this one at Tahquitz: 45 minute hike in, granite, no access to power, sand or corn blasting isn't an option, and the only water available is what you hike in.
Edit: Just did some searching for RemovAll- the mfr's website didn't have particularly explicit directions on how to use, but in describing useful tools to aid the process, the specified 'running water' and 'power washing'. I found Motsenbocker 4 as well, and ordered some- it sounds reasonably environmentally friendly- hopefully it won't require a powerwasher and 600 gallons of water...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 24, 2011 - 02:12am PT
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A graffiti removal project at Squamish today, using Removall. It worked quite well - an orange gel, which you slather on. Wait a while, then brush, rinse, brush, rinse, etc, using a soft brush. (Or a pressure washer, if feasible and appropriate.) Reapply and repeat as needed. The stuff isn't cheap, but was quite effective.
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rrrADAM
Trad climber
LBMF
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May 24, 2011 - 10:31am PT
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Boo! That sux!
I've seen stuff like that at other crags, but ones that are much easier to reach... Long trek in just to tag a rock.
From Currahee Mountain in, Georgia:
This is a neat little .10c named "Jesus Lives", named after the green graffiti of a cross with the words 'Jesus Lives' below it, left by some local rednecks decades ago... If you look, you can see the cross on the wall at left.
Same place...
More green spray paint, that says:
"No homos or nigggars aloud!"
Most of that phrase is washed out in the sun.
Some unknown climber at the same place:
Like I said... Rednecks.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 24, 2011 - 10:35am PT
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Somebody has to adorn the rocks, they didn't have any Anasazi in the area.
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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May 24, 2011 - 11:05am PT
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its not just the rock climbing areas.
painted trail markers suck also.
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apogee
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2011 - 08:38pm PT
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Well, it took a while, but today was the day to do a little service project on Tahquitz- the graffiti I discovered there last summer has been on my 'to do' list for a long time.
If you remember, the site of this graffiti is on the far north side of Tahquitz, between the starts of the Northeast Face East & El Grandote. A remote place for a tagger to hit, to be sure, which made it all the more offensive. (See the OP for a pic of the location.)
After a little web-research, and after considering the experience of several people earlier in this thread, I ordered a product called 'Motsenbocker's Lift-Off'- it's one of the products several people suggested, and it's biodegradable. (It has a citrus-y smell kinda like Pedro's bike component cleaners.) I stuffed this in my old Gregory Denali, along with a bunch of other tools:
Not being exactly sure what I would need, I came loaded for bear: the LiftOff, a tank sprayer, and several types of brushes, including a drill w/ wire brush. Figured I'd start out with the softer stuff, and see what worked. Here's what it looked like when I started today:
Though it was nice to have a (supposedly) biodegradable product for this project, I was a little skeptical as to how well it would work. I followed the directions: spray it on, leave for 5 minutes, spray off with water. This didn't remove anything, so I started with a plastic brush- also not very effective. Bumped up to a wire brush (the grey handled one), and between that and a little elbow grease, it started coming off. I rinsed it, and in a couple of places, re-applied and scrubbed some more. After several rounds, this is how it looked afterward:
Not bad at all! If you study it closely, there are very faint traces left, but if you didn't know it was there in the first place, I figure most people will never notice it. All told, I spent about 1 1/2 hours scrubbing at it, plus some sweat in humping up the tools and 2 1/2 gallons of water from the creek below.
Very few people knew about this graffiti, and it was in a very remote location that isn't commonly visited- still, it's been a burr under my saddle for a long time, and I'm psyched to have removed (most of) it.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 22, 2011 - 08:57pm PT
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NICE WORK!!
I was amazed when I saw that sh*t. Those clowns had to hike to do that.
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BeeHay
Trad climber
San Diego CA
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Jun 22, 2011 - 09:51pm PT
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Beautiful! I do know that location, it's been there for years, thank you for all the work.
BH
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The Alpine
climber
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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You missed a spot...
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Oct 23, 2014 - 12:35pm PT
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I know APOGEE (Hello)
this has a way of going through cycles
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Oct 23, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
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I once climbed up the north side descent route. (long story) On the way up there are several caves you often do not notice while descending. In the caves are some graffiti tags dated from the 1950s. Should be still there. Pretty remote location.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 30, 2019 - 07:00pm PT
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Idyllwild County Park (site of the well-known bouldering area) is seeing a significant increase in graffiti vandalism, especially within the last year or so.
These 'tags' appeared last summer:
^^^The 'Juice' tags appeared in about 6 locations within County Park. The 'Smiley Face' near the central X-Crack boulder was likely done at the same time.
I've used a product called 'VandlClean Super' for the trees, and had average to good results. It was not as effective on the green 'Eye' graffiti, however- several applications did not make much progress, nor did a stronger product that I tried applying. Over the last two days, I tried applying those products and then scrubbing with wire brushes, without much success. The granite on this side of the boulder is relatively soft, decomposing granite, and the paint had soaked in deeply.
So today, I got more serious- applied a removal product for a good long time, then created a system to be able to use a gasoline engine pressure washer at the site:
There is no water here, so I rigged up a bucket with a hose to the pressure washer, and filled the bucket repeatedly with many gallons of water that I hauled up to the site. This was much more effective, but because the rock is relatively soft, it scarred it more than I would have liked. Having tried less impactful options first that had no success, this seemed to be the only remaining option (short of leaving that shitshow for the ages). I also used this system on the 'Smiley Face' near the X-Crack boulder.
I will post up some 'After' pics tomorrow after they've had some time to dry- that's the real test of effectiveness.
In researching products, I looked back at the beta many had provided in this original thread- in the 8-9 years since then, some of those products are no longer available due to environmental regulations- in particular, 'RemovAll' can't be found anywhere in the US any longer, from what I understand. Too bad, as this product seemed to provide good results for many people.
I'd appreciate updated beta from anyone who has done graffiti removal projects on natural stone in their local areas- there's an art to it, for sure...and sadly, as Idyllwild has become more and more popular in recent years, this kind of vandalism is only going to increase...and the need for the art of removal needs to parallel this.
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johntp
Trad climber
By decision or indecision we are where we are.
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Jan 30, 2019 - 07:05pm PT
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^^^ good on ya. Urban encroachment.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 30, 2019 - 07:06pm PT
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Bless you, Ap. A terminal pox on those vermin.
Hopefully Karma will reign.
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ClimbingOn
Trad climber
NY
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Jan 30, 2019 - 08:21pm PT
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Strong work apogee. I for one really appreciate all your effort.
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Aeriq
Sport climber
100-year Visitor
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Jan 30, 2019 - 08:31pm PT
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Strong work, Apogee! The tree tag removal issue is a big meh.
Urban blight goes beyond the sub-urban.
There are guys that specialize in tags...
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boognish
Trad climber
SLC
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Jan 31, 2019 - 07:49am PT
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I started battling graffiti this summer in Salt Lake, mostly Little Cottonwood and Bells Canyon. This is the local watershed so my hands were tied with the chemicals I could use.
Here is what I found most effective:
Elephant Snot applied with a 4" roller. This is thick and goopy and will cling to a vertical surface while the chemicals dissolve the paint. I let it sit for about 30 minutes. During the wait I agitate it a bit with a soft nylon brush to work it into all the nooks and crannies and get it under some of the thicker layers. Scrubbing harder doesn't help too much, better to wait and let the chemicals do the work. Wire brushes dib't work as well on rough surfaces and can damage the rock. After 30 minutes you need to rinse off the paint and goop. I use a Sun Joe SPX6001 power washer. It is battery operated and has a bucket on top to hold water. The high pressure helps lift the paint a little, but mostly it speeds up the rinsing. If I have a long haul in or its a wilderness area I have used a garden sprayer. It works, but its really slow. This will lift most tags completely in one application. Occasionally it takes a few coats.
I have a few before and after pictures on Instagram under "Backcountry Buffer".
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jan 31, 2019 - 12:39pm PT
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Elephant snot with a similar procedure is what we have also been using at ACSD for a few years. The snot doesn't dry out quickly like some of the other removers. I would say the power washer helps a lot on really tough paint on good granite. And we have a hose running to the power washer from a tank or barrel instead of a bucket on top. That only works when you're going downhill. Otherwise if uphill, it takes a booster pump.
And if it's more than your hoses reach, then the garden sprayers.
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