9/11 belief, mythology, and the unknowable (OT)

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dirtbag

climber
Jul 2, 2010 - 02:25pm PT
Clicking on links is often times beyond them.

Because all you guys ever post are fringe sites, so why bother?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 02:32pm PT
thanks karl.

The final report did not examine key evidence, and neglected serious anomalies in the various accounts of what happened. The commissioners admit their report was incomplete and flawed, and that many questions about the terror attacks remain unanswered. Nevertheless, the 9/11 Commission was swiftly closed down on August 21 2004.

I do not believe in conspiracy theories. I prefer rigorous, evidence-based analysis that sifts through the known facts and utilises expert opinion to draw conclusions that stand up to critical scrutiny. In other words, I believe in everything the 9/11 Commission was not.

The failings of the official investigation have fuelled too many half-baked conspiracy theories. Some of the 9/11 "truth" groups promote speculative hypotheses, ignore innocent explanations, cite non-expert sources and jump to conclusions that are not proven by the known facts. They convert mere coincidence and circumstantial evidence into cast-iron proof. This is no way to debunk the obfuscations and evasions of the 9/11 report.

But even amid the hype, some of these 9/11 groups raise valid and important questions that were never even considered, let alone answered, by the official investigation. The American public has not been told the complete truth about the events of that fateful autumn morning six years ago.

What happened on 9/11 is fundamentally important in its own right. But equally important is the way the 9/11 cover-up signifies an absence of democratic, transparent and accountable government. Establishing the truth is, in part, about restoring honesty, trust and confidence in American politics.


this is from a reference to one of the links you posted.

just to be clear, without having read Hamiltons book (which i intend to), they lacked funding and time for the investigation and did not get the cooperation from other agencies. i dont get where they said their was a conspiracy....i doubt that there are many government projects that will say that they have all the time and $ they need, no surprise there.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
Rox,
When I go back to work, a lot of people will be disappointed. The stuff I now do for others will have to be subcontracted ...






Its none of your f*#king business what I do you worthless crap. I am independent, a private citizen and under no pressure to do anything I don't want to. I have a life that you can't even dream of jerkwad.


get off it. Your poor attempts at distraction just highlight your own inability to address the actual issues posted on this thread. You don't want to have a discussion on the facts and opinions of this thread, you would do everybody a favor by f*#king off.

there, there rj. it's alright. maybe someone can bump that thanks RJ thread for you, would that make you feel better? hell, if i have time i will bump it just for you so your feelings arent hurt.

but you are onto something. i think you should set up a paypal account and make people pay before they can see your blather and your infinite wisdom. being delusional about 911 is one thing, but your self worth from this site is quite delusional....
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 2, 2010 - 02:39pm PT
Wait a minute! I thought you guys have been telling me ground effect would
make it impossible to crash? Can't you make up your minds?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 02:47pm PT
The inertia of the airliner would push it into the ground in most cases.

Reilly, it is clear that Klimmer taught RJ some Physics....
Port

Trad climber
San Diego
Jul 2, 2010 - 02:54pm PT
Karl, that was a great video. Thank you. And I totally agree with you.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jul 2, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
Hawkeye wrote

i dont get where they said their was a conspiracy....i doubt that there are many government projects that will say that they have all the time and $ they need, no surprise there.

They said the government stonewalled them and also LIED to them. WHy? And why didn't they follow up an find out why. It's 9-11 inquiry for god's sake. If they asked publically for money and time they would get it. The Gov spent 55 million investigating Clinton's dick

peace

Karl
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 03:04pm PT
hey, nobody said government funding made sense...
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Jul 2, 2010 - 03:10pm PT
Gosh I got to get out of here and do stuff but you guys keep pulling me back in . . .

OK, this last post and then I'm going places and doing things . . .


American 77 Flight Path version2 - In 3D
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3752900324142560520#

Does the NTSB report for Flight 77, and the flight recorder for Flight 77 match? Nope.


I'm gonna make it easy for Hawkeye and Reilly,


I'm gonna hold your hand through this.

The actual NSTB report and the flight recorder for Flight 77 do not agree. The flight recorder data shows too high of an approach for the street lights to be knocked down. It would have easily overflown them.

So the flight recorder data proves that Flight 77 didn't knock down the streetlamps. Couldn't have.

Well, the OCT says that it did indeed knock down the street lamps. To do so AA Flight 77 (Boeing 757) would have to be within a height from the ground to experience severe ground effect going at the incredible high speeds it did. Can not happen.

So something small came through that SW approach path that did indeed slame into the Pentagon, and more than likely it had a bunker buster on board. It was not AA Flight 77. That is why you do not see flight 77 in the official released video, but you see something smaller and at near ground level.

AA Flight 77 flew to the North of the Citgo Station and overflew the Pentagon if indeed it was AA Flght 77. They wanted people to see a massive jet but it didn't slam into the Pentagon. It overflew the Pentagon.

Here:





Now, the scenerio I just outlined does indeed fit the evidence that we now know. Do we know every step of it? No. But it does fit all the known evidence.


Here watch the video from this site:

http://thepentacon.com/

The PentaCon (Smoking Gun Version with added subtitles)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5296595694237574426#


http://thepentacon.com/googlesmokinggun.htm
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 03:18pm PT
AA Flight 77 flew to the North of the Citgo Station and overflew the Pentagon if indeed it was AA Flght 77. They wanted people to see a massive jet but it didn't slam into the Pentagon. It overflew the Pentagon.

then dove into the top secret under the potomac naval shipyard for boeings and then they assassinated all the people on board? ot maybe sent them to a small desert island and they will pop up in a survivor TV series?

great deduction sherlock. i hope to god for the welfare of your students that you dont infect them with this crap....
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 03:36pm PT
Its hard to do good posting when you are rushing trying to keep up with people who are doing NOTHING to prove their claims but posting their own spew

oh, is it a competition! neato! i like competitions! how do i play!?

if i played by posting all this crap off the internet then could i be a contender?



you really do need to get a life.

Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 03:37pm PT
oh yeah,

RJ, i bumped your appreciation thread.

if you are feeling down you can always go read that again.
johndoeX

Social climber
NY
Jul 2, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
NASA Flight Director Confirms 9/11 Aircraft Speed As The "Elephant In The Room"

06/22/2010 - (PilotsFor911Truth.org) Recently Pilots For 9/11 Truth have analyzed the speeds reported for the aircraft utilized on 9/11. Numerous aviation experts have voiced their concerns regarding the extremely excessive speeds reported above Maximum Operating for the 757 and 767, particularly, United and American Airlines 757/767 Captains who have actual flight time in all 4 aircraft reportedly used on 9/11. These experts state the speeds are impossible to achieve near sea level in thick air if the aircraft were a standard 757/767 as reported. Combined with the fact the airplane which was reported to strike the south tower of the World Trade Center was also producing high G Loading while turning and pulling out from a dive, the whole issue becomes incomprehensible to fathom a standard 767 can perform such maneuvers at such intense speeds exceeding Maximum Operating limits of the aircraft. Especially for those who research the topic thoroughly and have expertise in aviation.

Co-Founder of Pilots For 9/11 Truth Rob Balsamo recently interviewed a former NASA Flight Director in charge of flight control systems at the NASA Dryden Flight Research facility who is also speaking out after viewing the latest presentation by Pilots For 9/11 Truth - "9/11: World Trade Center Attack".

Retired NASA Senior Executive Dwain Deets published his concerns on the matter at the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA) as follows:


A Responsibility to Explain an Aeronautical Improbability
Dwain Deets
NASA Dryden Flight Research Center (Senior Executive Service - retired)
AIAA Associate Fellow

The airplane was UA175, a Boeing 767-200, shortly before crashing into World Trade Center Tower 2. Based on analysis of radar data, the National Transportation and Safety Board reported the groundspeed just before impact as 510 knots. This is well beyond the maximum operating velocity of 360 knots, and maximum dive velocity of 410 knots. The possibilities as I see them are: (1) this wasn’t a standard 767-200; (2) the radar data was compromised in some manner; (3) the NTSB analysis was erroneous; or (4) the 767 flew well beyond its flight envelope, was controllable, and managed to hit a relatively small target. Which organization has the greater responsibility for acknowledging the elephant in the room? The NTSB, NASA, Boeing, or the AIAA? Have engineers authored papers, but the AIAA or NASA won’t publish them? Or, does the ethical responsibility lie not with organizations, but with individual aeronautical engineers? Have engineers just looked the other way?

The above entry remained at the moderated AIAA Aerospace America Forum for approximately two weeks before being removed without explanation. Click "Who is Ethically Responsible" submitted by Dwain Deets at the Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum for discussion on this entry at AIAA.

Dwain Deets credentials and experience are as follows:

Dwain Deets
MS Physics, MS Eng
Former Director, Aerospace Projects, NASA Dryden Flight Research Center
Served as Director, Research Engineering Division at Dryden
Recipient of the NASA Exceptional Service Award
Presidential Meritorious Rank Award in the Senior Executive Service (1988)
Selected presenter of the Wright Brothers Lectureship in Aeronautics
Associate Fellow - American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics (AIAA)
Included in "Who's Who in Science and Engineering" 1993 - 2000
Former Chairman of the Aerospace Control and Guidance Systems
- Committee of the Society of Automotive Engineers
Former Member, AIAA Committee on Society and Aerospace Technology
37 year NASA career

It is established based on corroborated expert statements, raw data, and precedent, that the extremely excessive speed reported for the 9/11 aircraft is truly the "Elephant In The Room" and needs to be thoroughly investigated.

For summary of speed analysis, please see article 9/11: Speeds Reported For World Trade Center Attack Aircraft Analyzed.

To view the scene from "9/11: World Trade Center Attack" analyzing the reported speeds in more detail, please click here.

For full detailed analysis covering the events which took place in New York City on September 11, 2001, interviews with experts, including analysis of "Hijacker" pilot skill, Black Box recovery and more... please view the latest presentation from Pilots For 9/11 Truth, "9/11: World Trade Center Attack".

Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is a growing organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has also analyzed Flight Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for the Pentagon Attack and the events in Shanksville, PA. The data does not support the government story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, there is a growing mountain of conflicting information and data in which government agencies and officials refuse to acknowledge. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html for full member list.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/join to join.

Comments? Click here for discussion.

Follow-up recorded interview - 06/30/10
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/interviews/Dwain_Deets063010.mp3
10mb download, approx 22 mins runtime.

###
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
Jul 2, 2010 - 04:42pm PT
LOL, JohnDoeX is Rob Balsamo. He monitors his access logs and makes visits out to the forums. What a loser. A proud day for Klimmer and RJ though.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=161557&mesg_id=162440



A plane can exceed it's safety limit without breaking up. They are set conservatively. It's gonna catch up to you eventually though. If you are on a suicide mission you don't really care.

Here's a test showing failure at 154 percent of design failure limit. Safety limits are set well below design failure.

http://www.clipstr.com/videos/Boeing777WingTest/

All Boeing airliners are designed very conservatively . The 707 was even rolled in a test flight.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Jul 2, 2010 - 05:12pm PT
Hawkeye wrote

hey, nobody said government funding made sense...

That's just a throwaway quote to avoid an uncomfortable admission and you probably know it. The government told lies to the 9-11 commission and they acknowledge that. They also steered them away for whole subjects (like the war games, money trail, and able danger/Atta)

Why? wHy did they need to lie? We don't know if they are covering up incompetance, foreknowledge or complicity. Don't you think we should find out for real?

Peace

Karl
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
Jul 2, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
LOL RJ, if he cared for anonymity he would not use johndoeX. Just do a google search.

He's well known as JDX. When I see johndoeX it rings a bell and I do a 5 second google search.

Not that difficult, Sherlock.

And he posted here back in 2006. He has done this for years. He is the ultimate Truther loser.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 05:15pm PT
I think a lot.

good for you! bravo! a mastermind! i can see the headlines, "RJ thinks a lot!"

dont know what good its doing but carry on....
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
karl,

kind of late after the fact that these guys call BS on a report they authored, dontchathink? ask RJ he thinks a lot.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Jul 2, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
oh come on RJ, dont get all weepy eyed on us.
johndoeX

Social climber
NY
Jul 2, 2010 - 05:21pm PT
Yeah, I'm Rob Balsamo.

I'm not exactly hiding it, just click my username and see my email addy Einstein.

I registered here many years ago, when i went by JDX. (i was surprised i still remembered my password here...)

And yes, we are getting a lot of hits from here. Thanks for those who posted links.

Whats your point "monolith"?

Who are you? Never heard of you before. But clearly you have heard of me... :-)

Bottom line. A slick P-51 breaks up in flight before a bulky 767-200. That is, if you believe the govt story.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=20178&view=findpost&p=10787201
Messages 381 - 400 of total 954 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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