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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Jun 22, 2010 - 09:14pm PT
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No fancy bridges to cross...
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jun 22, 2010 - 09:32pm PT
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i can mop the floor with most guitarists, so bluegrass, sure, why not.
and afterwards we can have a boxing match, just like big mon use to do.
roy clark was also a mandolinist/boxer.
go figure.
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harihari
Trad climber
Squampton
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Jun 22, 2010 - 10:18pm PT
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Hey Nutjob--
Ask them to call out the #s. I = root, III = 3rd etc. If it starts in say G, G is I, C is IV and D is V. That way you know where to go-- it's called the Nashville something-or-other system-- and pretty much anybody who knows a tune can tell you "Yea, little georgia rose, we play it in A and it's 1,4,1,5,1,4,1,5 and we got a chorus and bridge that's 4,1,4,5,1,4,5,1,4,1"
At least you don't play Irish...where if you have to ask, you are automatically regarded as not worthy...
chris
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jun 22, 2010 - 10:58pm PT
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I play some bluegrass. Luv it but work it in with other musical interests, all of which are acoustic. Keep it real.
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Bertrand
Trad climber
SF
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2010 - 11:40pm PT
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By the way John Hardy is in A:
4-4-1-1
4-4-1-1
4-4-1-1
5-5-5-5
5-5-1-1 (there is no B part)
Nutjob, let's play it.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Jun 23, 2010 - 12:26am PT
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Bertrand - Sweet video! Sad to see Merle Watson, given his untimely death, but great to listen to (and watch) that whole gang.
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Chief
climber
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Jun 23, 2010 - 02:07am PT
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Bluegrass has become an all encompassing genre that draws on many other musical styles. It's evolved from Appalachian fiddle tunes and the thin high lonesome sound of Bill Monroe and his Kentucky Bluegrass Boys to a multifaceted catch all that includes traditional bluegrass, old time and folk with influences from blues, swing, jazz and classical music.
Musicians like Tony Rice, Bela Fleck, Jerry Douglas, Edgar Meyer, Mark O'Connor and Bryan Sutton have rewritten the roles of acoustic stringed instruments in contemporary music and bluegrass today has evolved considerably from the Beverly Hillbillies or Deliverance theme tunes.
The essence of bluegrass as I understand it (ten years into flailing away at it), is the "forward leaning" nature of it's rhythm. The bass nails the beat and the mando "pushes" with an off beat muted chop providing a pitched percussive element not unlike a ska or reggae backbeat. If the bass stays on time and the mando pushes just enough, a tension is created and it's called "drive". The difficulty for greenhorns is not pushing the breaks and letting the tune from run away to the point where you've gained six to ten clicks on the metronome over the course of the tune. Conversely, bigger jams will kill the edge and render any attempt at drive into amorphous muck.
It's way easier said than done.
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harihari
Trad climber
Squampton
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Jun 23, 2010 - 12:44pm PT
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Ya, basically it's like country music (think early Johnny Cash) except that in country you have the snare drum on the off-beat, whereas in bluegrass (no drums) the mando plays the off beat. BOOM-chuck, BOOM-chuck.
Best bluegrass band I've ever seen in my life was from I think Slovenia. Saw them in Vancouver last year, name escapes me, absolutely blew the roof off the place...and not a word in English. They sounded and rocked totally bluegrass, yet the soloists threw in a few weird solos in non-trad modes, which sounded pretty cool.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 23, 2010 - 12:52pm PT
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I can't answer t*r's question about bluegrass festivals in her area. But last year Jonathan McEuen played at the FaceLift. He was and now again is with the Nitty Gritty Dirt Band, plus does bluegrass stuff. Enchanting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McEuen
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Chief
climber
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Jun 23, 2010 - 01:06pm PT
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Got to see Edgar Meyer, Bela Fleck and Zakir Hussein a couple years ago.
Three virtuosos who occasionally clicked and sounded amazing.
I think most of us were in awe and at times a bit uncomfortable watching Edgar openly enjoy a torrid love affair with his bass violin.
Listen to Skip Hop and Wobble if you want to destroy the bluegrass stereotypes and cliche's.
Likewise with Bela Fleck's Perpetual Motion or Tony Rice's Native American.
Back to more practicing.
(Manzanita, Devlin, Dixie Hoedown, Cold on The Shoulder and Old Train)
edit; Forgot to mention the classic Big Sciota or as we call it in Vancouver, Moe Sihota (now that's remote inside BC humour!)
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Jun 23, 2010 - 01:08pm PT
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Love Old Train!
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Bill Mc Kirgan
Trad climber
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
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Jun 23, 2010 - 02:12pm PT
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Chief say...
The essence of bluegrass as I understand it (ten years into flailing away at it), is the "forward leaning" nature of it's rhythm. The bass nails the beat and the mando "pushes" with an off beat muted chop providing a pitched percussive element not unlike a ska or reggae backbeat. If the bass stays on time and the mando pushes just enough, a tension is created and it's called "drive". The difficulty for greenhorns is not pushing the breaks and letting the tune from run away to the point where you've gained six to ten clicks on the metronome over the course of the tune. Conversely, bigger jams will kill the edge and render any attempt at drive into amorphous muck.
Wow ^^^^ I never heard/read it explained that way before..."forward leaning". The tension and release is what makes great music. I will listen to bluegrass now for that mandolin pushing. Thanks Chief.
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Bertrand
Trad climber
SF
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2010 - 02:14pm PT
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Chief, at every jam I hesitantly call Dixie Hoedown. Everyone says they know it, and then they all miss the B minor in the B part. But I love playing that tune!
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jun 23, 2010 - 02:44pm PT
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Mighty, My old musician buddy Warren Floyd plays with John McEuen quite regularly, seen him tons of times. Here are a couple of pics of Warren with John.
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Chief
climber
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Jun 23, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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Betrand,
The B minor in the B part of Dixie Hoedown is the essence of that tune's appeal and what differentiates it from the usual fare. I call it the "Puff the Magic Dragon" chord change cause it's identical.
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Bertrand
Trad climber
SF
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2010 - 07:19pm PT
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Wow. I just tried it and.. it's Puff! G, Bmin, C, G. Got any good recordings of either of them?
I am going to start reserving DH for people who really know it.
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hafilax
Trad climber
East Van
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Jun 23, 2010 - 07:59pm PT
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What are some good standards to know in the off chance that I come across a spontaneous hoedown?
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Chief
climber
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Jun 23, 2010 - 09:43pm PT
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Wow. I just tried it and.. it's Puff! G, Bmin, C, G. Got any good recordings of either of them? Not sure on the first, Peter Paul and Mary on the second.
What are some good standards to know in the off chance that I come across a spontaneous hoedown? Top ten parking lot picking tunes? Here's ten standards that will work in a jam anywhere.
Gold Rush
Red Haired Boy
Salt Creek
Bill Cheatham
Wildwood Flower
Whiskey Before Breakfast
Blackberry Blossom
Arkansas Traveller
Jerusalem Ridge
Old Joe Clark
It seems to me that when the guitar is strumming, it's also on the backbeat. It also sounds like an upstroke. Am I hearing it correctly?
Yes. It can be a downstroke or upstroke strum on the offbeat.
The style that some call "boom chick" provides both the beat and backbeat.
Some guitar players like to emphasize the offbeat, it's situational.
A lot of the best bluegrass rhythm players can easily provide some of both and transition as required, McCoury, Rice and Sutton for example.
If there's no mando in the mix or when that instrument is taking a break others can and do fill in with a muted slap with fiddle bow, a banjo cluck, reso brush or guitar strum. Once you recognize the dynamic it becomes fascinating to hear it when the big boys and girls play.
It's not the notes, it's the groove.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Jun 23, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
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Chief, that's the killer lineup. I'd add a personal favorite as well: Cherokee Shuffle.
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