Discussion Topic |
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 31, 2010 - 11:30am PT
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Population pressures have brought out the British in Cali climbers and every climbing possibility around population centers has been excavated into a climbing area regardless of quality.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 11:35am PT
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'tis true, no doubt. But there are ultra classic areas a bit farther out that don't see much traffic. Others still are relatively undiscovered. If people would walk more than a few hours, there is still a life time of rock to be had.
Instead of Pakistan or Kyrgistan, I'd like to spend two months in the Sierra.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2010 - 11:36am PT
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You have that right Tom, I'll be in the Sierra's in August.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Boulder Creek CA
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May 31, 2010 - 11:37am PT
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When you fly around in a light plane you see a multitude of interesting looking rocks that are essentially untouched by climbers...
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 11:40am PT
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There's huge stuff waiting to be had for those willing to walk two days instead of just one day.
Heck- there's only two routes that I know of on Languille peak. It's only a day away. Maybe the rock is shitty, but it looks good. Rowell had a route on it- he had a pretty good eye. That whole valley back there looks awesome for climbing, like a mix of yosemite and tuolumne.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 11:45am PT
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Jim...can't be as bad as Indian Creek! LOL
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 11:47am PT
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Yeah- I was wandering a bit, but Donnini's point is good. The close to urban areas are pretty forced at times.
Warbler- you keep posting some of that San Diego stuff that looks fantastic. The Mt. Woodson stuff looks like the real deal too.
I'm a Bay Area guy by birth. I've explored a lot around there. There's stuff. Good climbs here and there, but much of it has something lame about it. Too short, too much cleaning, too sandy, too much walking to too low of quality.
A lot of the time- it's too far. By the time you spend an hour and a half driving to the crag, and then another hour hiking, you could be at the Grotto or Jailhouse. If you are going to spend all that time in the car for a few hours of exercise, you could have gone biking and be drinking beer with friends already.
I moved.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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Kevin,
I'll come climb with you but, keep in mind the fact that I'm too old for polished rock. I was thinking more of LA, SF and Santa Barbara.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 31, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Jim, you're a bitter cuss lately. WTF?
Sure the 'popular' areas have traffic, but so what? There are gems to be had if you know the right people and don't like climbing around others.
One word...Shuteye.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Jim...in happier times.
Jim...thought we get to the "black" this season...maybe in the fall?
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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May 31, 2010 - 11:57am PT
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Sad truth is negative attitudes and a lack of creativity.
So Cal is rich with possibilities in addition to our classics. A great place for climbers, anywhere in the state, plus we have the beach.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2010 - 11:59am PT
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The Fall Bob- Bluering, I think emulating the British is a positive thing- very creative. I'm off to my local crag, excellent sport climbing but I have to drive two miles and then walk 6 minutes- uphill!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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May 31, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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When you fly around in a light plane you see a multitude of interesting looking rocks that are essentially untouched by climbers...
TC,
Yep. There are a plethora of fine secret places that the masses will never visit and I wouldn't want them too. There is so much to do. You just have to open your eyes and see. There are even "JT" like regions still undiscovered and rarely climbed. SSSSsssssshhhhhhhh.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 12:04pm PT
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Jim wrote: I'm off to my local crag, excellent sport climbing but I have to drive two miles and then walk 6 minutes- uphill!
Jim...come to Boulder Canyon...it's greyhair accessible. Lot's crags under five minute approach. :-)
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 12:11pm PT
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weighing my fatass in on this--
there are lots of little climbing places in so cal and anyone serious about climbing knows about them. stoney is always there for a free gym.
BUT
williamson rock was the focus for years and it has been taken away from us. there are lots of climbers around LA, and williamson is little more than an hour's drive away. our substitute has become echo cliff, an hour's drive, a 45-minute hike, getting intensely developed and resulting in a tiff with the land managers.
the need for a fairly large venue close to town won't go away. not everyone becomes a respectable bum and lives at the Y, so to speak. as i've said on other threads, i think the williamson closure was done on pretty thin ice and all it will take to melt it is climbers who care studying up on it a little. the access fund isn't going to do it for us, patagonia inc isn't going to do it for us, and FoWR, which takes all its cues from the usfuss, won't either. troy is a great fellow, but he stopped climbing at williamson before all this started.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2010 - 12:17pm PT
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Rokjox,
I like my climbing partners like some guy's like there women: half my age plus 7. I've been known to have a drink or two.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
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May 31, 2010 - 12:19pm PT
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Rox,
A challenge.
Never come to California again.
Bet ya can't do it.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 31, 2010 - 12:28pm PT
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Jim...can't be as bad as Indian Creek! LOL
You mean the hundreds of climbers packed into the supercrack area 5 minutes from the road...
Or the hundreds (thousands?) of unclimbed splitters that are more than an hour from the road...
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
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May 31, 2010 - 12:49pm PT
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Rox,
Thank you.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2010 - 12:50pm PT
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Hmmmmm Rokjox, sounds like a challenge. Later, I'm outta here my quick draws are calling me.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 12:52pm PT
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If we're talking brits though- think castle rock in the Bay Area. At some point late 80" early 90's, they bolted and scrubbed every possible variation in the area.
How many of those were really worth the the bolts?
There's two bolt stuff there that could be highball boulders in the modern age. Also plenty of stuff that should have been left as top ropes and variations.
This is what you were getting at right?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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May 31, 2010 - 12:56pm PT
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Roxy, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Or a you trolling poorly?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
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I almost hate to admit this but California is the most diverse and most beautiful state in the union.
There is also an endless amount of rock...good and choss to be climbed.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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May 31, 2010 - 01:07pm PT
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It's a little known fact that certain parts of California aren't actually in California. Or at least they shouldn't be.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
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May 31, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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Bob,
You are so right on.
Greates diversity in geography, geology, nationalities, recreation, food, drink and good times.
California does have it's problems, but every state has some pretty screwed up things about them.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
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I'm moving to Santa Fe, NM surely one of the most beautiful cities in the world.
I'll be climbing the choss basalt in the area...everything is a trade off.
Douglas...California truly is an amazing place.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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May 31, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
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I say that's good news!
Population center, mungefest, n00b attractant, outdoor gym, I see no problem.
It would be a much bigger problem if these crowds were crawling all over the real backcountry and clusterf*cking the good stuff.
Am I missing something here?
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
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May 31, 2010 - 01:15pm PT
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Have not been to Santa Fe in many, many years but do recall it being amazing!
However, I'm heading that way, ultimately to Angelfire, soon for work.
Can't wait.
Every state to me has some darn cool stuff. Even though you may have to "look" for it.
EDIT: Even Idaho. ;-)
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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May 31, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
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Bob,
I can't wait til you get here.
I need a partner.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 01:16pm PT
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Douglas...we should hook up...great climbing near Taos.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
Arkansas, I suppose
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May 31, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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California would be an awesome place to live if it weren't so full of Californians.
edit: nothin' against Californians, there's just so dang many of you.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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Survival...I'll email my phone number. I'll be living on the south side of town till I move the family down in October. Looking forward to climbing with you.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
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May 31, 2010 - 01:24pm PT
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Bob,
When I get the firm dates I'll be out there I'll see what I can pull off!
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WBraun
climber
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May 31, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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May 31, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
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I find this funny we said the same things in the seventys - eightys -ninetys - when you fly over the sierras you see a lot of incredable rock all of it explored before you were born. people like NORMAN CLYDE - JONH MUIR - & many more. I crew up in the sierras & was taught to go in do your climb or whatever & get out without leaving a mark - so that the next people there had the feeling that they were the first there. climbers need to get over our selfs. There are people in the back county, maybe not you but there are still people going to places like the - Gorge of despair - Black divide - & so much more. As long as you all need to put your name on something this is only going to get worse.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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Simple...don't like California...don't go there.
Roxjox wrote: Frumy has the goods. Whatever happened to LEAVE NO TRACE in climbing? THAT was the ethic I was raised in.
So what is your point??
That you are cool or everyone should be like you?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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May 31, 2010 - 02:10pm PT
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And how many routes are on this?
A couple or three on the chossy part to the right, none on the left.
Sic 'em boys 'n girls!
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habitat
climber
grass pass
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May 31, 2010 - 02:45pm PT
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It's a little known fact that certain parts of California aren't actually in California. Or at least they shouldn't be.
Good one....and certain parts of Nevada are in California....where they should be....
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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May 31, 2010 - 02:56pm PT
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Jim I don't know if you've been climbing in Hatcher Pass but i'd assume so. Either way an invites always open if your coming through Alaska. Lots of other crags too.
Also my friend Nick Weicht has been talking about his recent roadtrip and said the highlight of his trip was that he met up and climbed with you as you were "such an awesome guy".
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 31, 2010 - 03:08pm PT
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I've lost count of the number of fun trips to Cal.
A good place to visit if you avoid the crowds, but I wouldn't want to live there.
Some suggestions for legal ordnance;
wooden stocked Mini-14 with a pile of ten rd clips
Ruger PC4 with a pile of ten rd clips
single stack 1911s
riot guns (get some dust-buster rds)
and get a good mouthpiece
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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May 31, 2010 - 03:20pm PT
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Huell Howser knows where the heart of California is, at least the geographical center. I saw the show.
Rockjox~ whatevz brah! KW still climbs, a lot. Discovers, a lot. Has fun, a lot.
You THINK you know.
You don know sh#t.
Shut it.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
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Rok wrote: My POINT? THAT everyone should practice what they preach. Leave no trace. Leave the natural world natural.
Not everyone is into preaching like you.
You just want to rant. Go at it.
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Alois
Trad climber
Idyllwild, California
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May 31, 2010 - 03:27pm PT
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Jim, I agree. On the other hand, there are places in the Sierra you don't see many people and what an incredible climbing. Bubbs Creek Wall, Castle Rock Spire, the Fin, Pine Creek Pass, Yosemite back country, Lone Pine Peak, Langley, the whole of Domelands, Needles, man, that is a lifetime of absolutely the best climbing. California has it all. People will re discover it again, like we did years ago.
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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May 31, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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Funny...another California sucks thread...lol.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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May 31, 2010 - 03:49pm PT
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Jesus H. Christ on a Stick Rokjox - will you give it a freeking break for at least ONE F*#KIN DAY!
Yes...we get it.
You hate California.
Why don't you go pick on North Dakota for a week or so - I've been there and they have things that suck too.
Just please, leave US the f*#k alone you whackjob!
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 04:15pm PT
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Rox wrote: My biggest complaint with the state is how hard it is to get around (east west through the Rockies) once you get off I-70. So many of the roads are two land winders that ONE Winnebago can cause a traffic stack-up for ten miles, and they got a LOT more than one Winnebago.
Don't worry we'll built bigger roads just for you.
WTF!!
And you are worried about bolts in a wilderness area...LOL
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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May 31, 2010 - 04:50pm PT
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Watch those uphill approaches Jim. Before you know it your thighs will get huge and hold you back!!
JACK
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krahmes
Social climber
LP
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May 31, 2010 - 04:59pm PT
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Isn’t this true for every place in the western USA; even Idaho? That is if you can remember how the western USA was thirty years ago. Memory is a bit of a curse.
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Kalimon
Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 05:08pm PT
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Hey folks it is all good . . . after 20+ years in SW CO I would have to say that we have more choss here than CA, it just has not been developed as much. The thought of the desecration of popular El Cap routes by human bodily waste is a depressing one however . . . thankfully we don't have to get pissed and sh#t on here. As for these clowns that want to bolt the sh#t out of anything and everything here and in CA, put your ego aside and top rope or free solo it for chrissakes. What happened to the ethic of leaving it for someone who can do it in better style?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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May 31, 2010 - 05:13pm PT
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I drove over Independence less than two years ago and there was still a single lane for both directions at that one spot.
The drivers coming up from Aspen were a real hazard though.
Thats the thing, Colorado is cool, Cal is cool.
It's the crowds that screw it up.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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May 31, 2010 - 05:39pm PT
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you had to go in a casino to know reno sucks. the place looks like a little San bernardino with even less class & san bernardino has none.I love nevada its just the people & the way they live - the whole place looks like meth town. I Know thats not fair, but true. The new shops i see in idaho & for that matter most places i go look like new 1965 san berdo - if you hate cal. so much why are you letting your home state be designed & built like this. Cal. is the economic engine of the USA thats what happened here. 80% of all the products exported out of the west are shipped out of L.A.& LONG BEACH HARBORS. More than 35% of all the frieght shipped into the USA comes though those two ports. Without those large roads(interstate 5 & 710 & 15 carry the most frieght of any roads in the would) coming out of those ports the rest of you could not & would not live in those incredible places. I am glad you have a great place to live. get over yourself.
she is going to stretch your rope
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - May 31, 2010 - 05:54pm PT
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Come visit Ouray Locker. You have a place to stay, I'll give you a tour.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 07:24pm PT
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Jim wrote: Come visit Ouray Locker. You have a place to stay, I'll give you a tour.
Go Locker you'll feel like you are in LA with all the rich, white folks in the area.
I first went to Telluride in 1974 and they couldn't give away the old mining houses along Main St, now maybe a half million will get you 500 square feet.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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May 31, 2010 - 08:14pm PT
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Yes, shame on you KW.
Sheesh.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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May 31, 2010 - 08:16pm PT
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Calling Pate.........
Hello....
Come in Pate......
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 31, 2010 - 08:20pm PT
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 08:21pm PT
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California would be an awesome place to live if it weren't so full of Californians.
edit: nothin' against Californians, there's just so dang many of you.
I'm a second generation Californio.
We just wish all you aliens would just leave!
We could bulldoze the tract houses, replant the orange groves, and vineyards.
It would be a nice place again.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 08:26pm PT
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TGT wrote: I'm a second generation Californio.
We just wish all you aliens would just leave!
We could bulldoze the tract houses, replant the orange groves, and vineyards.
It would be a nice place again.
Wow second generation...the ones who really f*#ked it up.
You might want to ask the native Americans and the old Hispanics families who been there for centuries what they think?
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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May 31, 2010 - 08:30pm PT
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Ignorance is bliss.
Wait, he doesn't live in Bliss, he lives in Boise.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 08:35pm PT
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It was the imports that "f*#ked it up" DA
The generation that came here in the late 1800's and 19teens were farmers and ranchers just like those previous with a real connection to the land.
Their kids grew up with the same connection.
The real downfall of Southern California was the aftermath of WWII. Between the explosive growth of the aerospace industry and returning vets that transited thru here and then returned with a family the population explosion and subsequent destruction was a fate sealed.
The California of my childhood disappeared as I watched.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 08:41pm PT
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TGT wrote: The generation that came here in the late 1800's and 19teens were farmers and ranchers just like those previous with a real connection to the land.
How old are you???
Get off your fecking high horse...most of the white settlers stole the land from the indigenous population in the 1800's during the gold rush.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 08:51pm PT
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I just got back from fishing the Owens River Gorge. They're headed for the grill next.mmmmm big healthy browns too.
Where I went, ain't no one ever going to bolt. There was stuff there though. If we were closer to a city, this stuff would already be done.
Trying to get back to Donnini's point.
What's the use.
Idaho sucks, Cali rocks brah! In your face.
Edit- don't take me seriously rox- idaho is pretty cool too.
Reno isn't bad if know where to go. Right among the Casinos is a rippin' vietnamese place. There's a good basque bar down there as well. Other wise- why go to the strip?
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 09:02pm PT
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Dingus wrote: So what IS the sad truth about California climbing anyway? Maybe someone could like, enlighten me... how bad do I have it, again?
Is that it has the best and most diverse climbing in the US...truth hurts.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
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Kevin and Mister E...don't be posting links to facts...it will hot-wire TGT...he is a teabaggers and republican. His world view comes from the likes GWB, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
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Learn some history DA.
there was an anglo presence and intermarriage in So Cal from way back.
The Californios defeated (or at least got a draw) at the battle of Cahuenga pass with the donation of a retired anglo ship captians cannon, ammo and expertise. He wasn't that expert. The only casualty from the battle was a Mexican army mule. The battle did result in the Mexican governor being replaced with one that was acceptable to the Californios.
The Workman and Rowland families just for one example, were intermarried with the Picos and other prominent Hispanic families. They were given the land. they didn't take it. LA was a very cosmopolitan / multicultural place from the beginning. If one were to speculate about an alternative history with no Fremont it's likely that California would have followed a path like much like Texas as a short lived true independent state. (not the sham one that did shortly exist)
So assuage your liberal guilt with myths of epic land thefts if you wish, but at least properly attribute them to the Spanish and later easterners that were equal opportunity thieves.
my immediate forbearers came here at (on one side) or immediately before or shortly after (the other side) the turn of the last century to farm not plunder. I grew up in a house that my dad built with nothing but miles of orange groves around when I was small and nothing but suburbs by the time I was out of elementary school. Saw my grandad's place go from oranges to apartments to slums in less than a five year period after he died and grandma sold.
The thing that's most amazing about the transformation/destruction of California is how fast it happened.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 09:33pm PT
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TGT wrote: So assuage your liberal guilt with myths of epic land thefts if you wish, but at least properly attribute them to the Spanish and later easterners that were equal opportunity thieves.
Idiot...I was referring to your statement about being second generation when I included Hispanics as a time frame.
You can justified any thing you want in that mind of your...the truth won't change.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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May 31, 2010 - 09:34pm PT
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TGT~
happened?
happening.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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May 31, 2010 - 09:55pm PT
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Did any of you climb this weekend?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 10:22pm PT
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happened?
happening.
As soon as the paleo-indians got here they started transforming the landscape with fire.
The Ranchero's elevated that in spades and turned millions of acres of oak woodlands into grasslands that eventually turned to chaparral without the regular maintenance by fire and grazing.
There wasn't any "natural" Southern California landscape even during the mission period.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 10:27pm PT
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TGT wrote...There wasn't any "natural" Southern California landscape even during the mission period.
Excluding of course your family and their orange groves.
This gets funnier each time you post.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
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Donini is right on in his opening statement.....because of the large populations of San Diego, LA, and SF....any rock near these places , reguardless of quality, is being cleaned , scraped, bolted, and climbed....just like what has happened in most of the UK......it's not a bad thing, really;...and he's not saying the climbing blows in California;...because it don't.....but because we have great weather, lots of climbers, and lots of rock....alot of the rock is being climbed....reguardless of quality.....I'm guilty of this too;...I climb anything...as long as it's rock climbing;...I'm game. There is still lots of unclimbed rock, lots of secret places, and lots of * climbs to be "unearthed" in California......but look at places like New Jack, The Quarry, and any stone within 1/2 hour of LA, San Fran, ....now San Diego;...well;.....that may be a different story........don't pick on Donini to hard;...he's mostly correct about his original statement......We climb anything here in California;...and why not?...If the Brits do it...so can we...dammit......never really interested in arguing with anyone who says the climbing in Calif. bites....because that person is a madman;...and why discuss anything with a lunatic?...
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 10:40pm PT
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The point D' is obvious.
Humans have been impacting this landscape for better than 10,000 years. Usually not for the better,
however I'll take an orange grove or a grassland with a few cattle (that were raised only for their hides, kinda like domestic buffalo) over a concrete wasteland any day.
.
Is that an obvious enough statement for you?
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 10:45pm PT
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TGT is one guilty SOB when it comes to gobbling up climbs;..he's like a greedy goat out to pasture who is eating up alot of grass.....he is one of those fools who climbs anything and everything....he may be a Brit , for all I know.....AND he likes his beer too......he cannot be trusted....
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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May 31, 2010 - 10:49pm PT
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TGT...my point is even more obvious than your.
Second generation or the one hundred...big difference.
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kbstuffnpuff
Sport climber
State of Confusion
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May 31, 2010 - 10:50pm PT
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I love California.
I just got completely stoned on crushingly kind herb I bought at the store. Legally.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 31, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
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And Todd, I'm old enough to have got do lots of them before the masses, "cleaned them" wore them out and greased them up.
At any rate that's a good enough excuse to use when one of them shuts me down now.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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May 31, 2010 - 11:10pm PT
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THE family? Donnini is hooked up with the Mansons?
Helter Skelter!
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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May 31, 2010 - 11:58pm PT
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I was born and raised in Idaho, 19+ years. Couldn't wait to leave. Had to drive hours to get to any decent rock. Food's crappy. No culture. No altitude points. That was in North Idaho, where it's nice.
Now I am a Californian Loving California. I live in LA. I've seen more wildlife in my own backyard, yes, my lot, in the city limits of LA, than I ever saw in 20 years in Idaho. I've got deer, bobcat, coyote, skunk, raccoon, fox, all kinds of hawks, geese, ducks, coots, egrets & heron. I've got a 3 peaks over 10,000 about an hour away and choice climbing on wide range of granite, sandstone and volcanics. Occasionally some ice and decent backcountry skiing. WAY more fishing in the Pacific. Uh... you can keep Idaho.
And Rokjox -- YOU are a Californian which means YOU are Californicating Idaho! AND I know, because I'm one of them, Idahoan's HATE Californians.
:-D
Colorado: Nice rocks, nice mountains, nice girls, NO BEACH!
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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As far as I'm concerned the beach is SO overrated in So Cal. You all can have it!
I live close to the beach and rarely go, don't care to, too much of a hassle, water isn't clean enough, too many people, high rates to park the car, nah....not for me.
It takes entirely too long to drive to any climbing areas from where I live. Williamson was the closet area, can't wait until its re-opened.
I agree with whoever said earlier the problem with cali is the people, true that, too many here. I've wanted out my whole life but circumstances have kept me here, so remain in So Cal Hell.
However, the Sierra is nirvana to me and is where I go, as often as I can, it is worth the five hour drive, stay a few days and soak in the peace of it all. Yeah, the Sierra is what makes Cali alright!!! but the rest of the state, well.....
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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Hey Rok, your problem is we DO know better.
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sac
Trad climber
spuzzum
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Hey, (the) Chief!!
Wow, where, exactly, is that place ??
Looks ... cooool.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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If you don't like crowds, just go mid-week. Chances are you'll have the place to yourself ( Yosemite Valley excepted ).
And if you don't like the weather, get in the car and drive 45 minutes.
If you don't like California, you're wrong.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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"Population pressures have brought out the British in Cali climbers and every climbing possibility around population centers has been excavated into a climbing area regardless of quality."
-Kinda like Colorado, only less contrived...
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Tom Woods,
Are you up for more climbing this summer? I want to go back and try that overhanging hand crack we looked at, in addition to a bunch of other stuff up there.
Kevin
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Rainbow (I-80) was empty on sunday.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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this place is great!
cheers!
RM
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oh, the humanity!
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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when idaho got the internet in 2005, we knew there would be trouble. nowhere else would intelligent humans have to listen to this kind of drivel.
boise probably isn't even as nice as fresno, let alone a city with character. cali has lots of suburban shithole, as does idaho. california has lots of beautiful houses way out in the middle of nowhere, as does idaho. california has some of the best granite in the world.. as does.. oh wait.
you are mad because 400,000 people don't get as much water as 30,000,000? what makes you think rural folk have more rights than city folk, where does it say that in the constitution?
rj, urban planner, politician, ecologist, and expert politician. All that without reading a book, doing an experiment, or going to school.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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the whack jobs in Idaho think they are all so independent and wild west while keeping a big hand out for federal aid...
That's funny as hell. Funny cos it's true.
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franky
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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at a technician level, in other words, you don't know how to do anything but the work someone told you to do, the brawn but not the brains eh?
makes sense in light of all your brainless opinions about everything.
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WBraun
climber
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"The wilderness of Warblers imagination..."
Hahahahaha LOL!!!!!
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MeatBomb
Gym climber
Boise, I dee Hoe
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Rokjox: I am capable of a lot.
You forgot windbag on your resume and for a guy so capable one would think you could get a job, somewhere. Do you even look for jobs or do you just post spew on the Supertopo forum all day?
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Hmm...lots of heat, mostly not about Donnini's actual point. But I'm not sure why we should care if folks are scraping off every urban escarpment they can find and bolting it. Every pile of choss with a bunch of climbers on it is that many fewer climbers on the good stuff...sounds more like a solution than a problem to me.
California is one of the climbing jewels of the planet.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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They had some FUN stuff in that building. Sorry I can't tell you anymore about it. Wolves? Space aliens? Arks? Klimmers? GWB's brain? DC's conscience? Do tell!
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Funny thread. So Cali empties out mid week BECAUSE PEOPLE HAVE TO GO TO WORK! Not all that surprising of a concept (DISCALIMER, although 'work' is not a surprising concept, many of us do find it to be shocking).
There is SOOOOOO much frigging untouched rock in CA. Shuteye, Woodfords, Balch, Domelands, East Side, West Side, etc. Hell I haven't even been up north. Even in Yosemite there are tons of untouched formations. Tons of walls with routes not in any guide book. Why don't people go there? Well they have no sense of adventure, they want to be spoon fed every minute detail, they have to hike in, they have to camp not in a campground, etc.
A few weeks back I took a rest day in the valley and hiked to something I wanted to do to check out the approach. On the way out I hiked out a different way along a wall. I had previously only climbed on the far left of said wall (that was all that was in the Reid guide). On my hike I found a sh#t load of stuff. Nice stuff. No one on it! But I like that because it just means more adventures for me.
After getting shut down by a road closure sunday night we decided to explore on monday. Found a way in to a killer area, found another huge killer area, found a nice looking cave, and even natural soda spring. IT'S out there - you just have to be willing to drive, look, and hike!
kev
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Waaaa, there are too many people in CA.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Crane Jackson's Fountain St. Theater
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There's probably room for a few more good lines on this guy:
credit: stolen from Pullharder.org
I hail from Connecticut. I'll never complain about the abundance of rock in California.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Hahah,
Didn't see a single person on Sat. Climbing in a great spot with many 1-7 pitch routes, plus an abandoned mine at the camping spot! Chill.
kev
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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No line on 'Show us your Tits' Sunday; one of the most popular routes, on one of the most popular formations, in one of the most popular areas in California. On a Memorial day weekend, no less.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Idaho is the best. Everyone should move to Idaho. California sucks. Don't move here.
The end.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Rgold really nailed it up there.
He said, and I quote:
Hmm...lots of heat, mostly not about Donnini's actual point. But I'm not sure why we should care if folks are scraping off every urban escarpment they can find and bolting it. Every pile of choss with a bunch of climbers on it is that many fewer climbers on the good stuff...sounds more like a solution than a problem to me. California is one of the climbing jewels of the planet.
end of story- nailed it.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
Will know soon
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Somehow we poor Cali's manage to "get along." :D
As for anthill's Rox......wish we had more red ant hills here again so the horned toad lizards would make a comeback.
Idaho.....last time I camped there at the entrance to the campground a sign said, " this campground is for all people regardless of race, creed or color. Have never seen a sign like that before or since....never went back to Idaho. If you have to spell it out there's something amiss imho. Peace, Lynne
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Rox,
Is there anything you aren't an expert on?
Fortunately I know some nice normal people from Idaho. They sure don't seem to share you views. And I won't let you poison my view of Idahoians...
At least I don't have to worry about finfing you climbing since I go to the many places that people don't in the Sierras...
kev
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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We love California....
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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We love Idaho, too....
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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The place is hell on earth...don't go there!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Looks nice, you guys, but can you imagine how good it would be if it was in, say, "I don't know"?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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BlowJox,
So sorry you lack the intellect to look at a keyboard and see the 'f' near the 'd'. Then again that would imply a certain level of intellect...
smiles
kev
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
Berkeley, CA
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Let's face it, if many of us could make it pay somewhere closer to our preferred crags, we'd do it, right? But most people live close (somewhat) to where they work and most office park, worker bee type jobs aren't in places like Jackson. Of course there are careers that would allow you to live in a smaller foothill town. So most climbers live in the (sub)urban areas and climb the closest thing they can find that looks like rock. That seems pretty logical, for better or worse.
California isn't blesed with urban locations next to the rock like maybe some other places, but to argue that the state is anything other than world class overall and most likely tops in the US is delusional.
I know if I could pull it off, I'd be in Sonora or somewhere a helluva lot closer to the good rock. And you'd better believe I've looked at that website listed on that weirdo billboard west of Oakley that mentions something about high Sierra play and high tech jobs (oops)
Joxstrap, you've polluted this thread more than the soil at Mountain Home. Get a job.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jun 16, 2012 - 09:29am PT
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Nothing sad about California climbing except you'll likely never visit half the places it goes on here, let alone exhaust the potential for new routes.
If you don't like California, leave it to Beaver or go climb on the Cleaver. It's real close to Twin Lakes. You can't miss it. If that doesn't appeal, look at Matterhorn Peak and the rest of Sawtooth Ridge. These are pretty typical "loser climbs," but standard for this state.
Sheesh. Some people. No satisfying them. Bloom where you are planted, but climb wherever you can, in any of these united states. It is a stupid geographical bias. You are better than that, all of you. Excepting Werner. He's stuck in that prison. lol
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Jun 16, 2012 - 10:11am PT
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well jim youre not quite there,lots of crags where i live that no one goes
to. i think youre idea of california is stuck in the southern half of the state. cheers
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kaholatingtong
Trad climber
the green triangle, cali
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Jun 16, 2012 - 10:44am PT
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jims right. no good climbing left in kali. move along.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 16, 2012 - 11:02am PT
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interesting that this thread should be bumped. climbing around l.a. has become a delicate matter. conversations with fellow climbers, land managers, property owners, nonclimbing outdoorsy people--all cause for careful diplomacy.
"the po-lice at the port of entry say
you're number fourteen thousand for today ..." -- woody guthrie
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PeteC
climber
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Jun 16, 2012 - 01:18pm PT
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Donini, starting pointless negative threads reflects poorly on you.
At least people are out climbing. You would think you would be happy to see them embracing the sport which you yourself love.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jun 16, 2012 - 02:04pm PT
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Hell yes it got bumped. Donini can't get away with saying _ about my home state with no sass back. CO great big mtns may be more numerous and have more overall height. But they are in the same fecking country. So let's forget the regional BS, okay? It is kind of a stupid thread, now I think on it, but it cleared the air a bit.
How many more route possibilities are there on TP of Dana? Variations? Looks like Jenga in stasis in the pix. Wish I had been along with bBonebrake on that FA. Vitaliy, I still say that TR was four-stars. All I am hearing is whining about the approach, guys. Not gud. Go to Courtwright if that's a biggie.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jun 16, 2012 - 02:08pm PT
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RA, we could go up there and trundle the place flat, if we took big enough levers. But the ITF, man, gotta think about your membership and the oath. Scuse me. Heat of the moment. I'd likely get lost on the approach, even having been on the summit once!
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
|
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Jun 16, 2012 - 02:10pm PT
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Climbed on the middle cathedral apron. Twenty minutes from the road, nobody there...quiet and one of the most beautiful settings around. The Valley is still mecca. The Sierra is beautiful but the valley is till the magnate
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jun 16, 2012 - 02:13pm PT
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Kevin, Alex is just warming up.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jun 16, 2012 - 02:38pm PT
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I was gonna say, too, Kevin, that the Apron is the "temple in the cathedral", or the holiesty among the holies.
And Tony, LA has lots of problems. The biggest one is the worship of the auto and the mirror. Climbing access is way down the list. IMO the rock is just too chossy to lead, in many cases, as if you aren't aware. But the bouldering is tops. I never cared for any of the climbs in comparison to YV, which is a no-brainer, but it's fact. I have done lots of it in both places. I never had trouble with access in my whole life. I consider Tahquitz non-LA, along with the rest of the SoCal area away from the SFV, which seems to be the locus. I saw so many cliffs when we went out on pump service calls in Ventura/Sant Barbara/LA counties that it was silly. But they mostly looked like death-leads.
[Excuse me for living, dude.]
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Captain...or Skully
climber
|
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Jun 16, 2012 - 04:49pm PT
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Geez, exaggerate much?
If Idaho was actually dangerous, Ol' Joxitch would 1 dead MF. He ain't too swooft, that one.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 16, 2012 - 05:11pm PT
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But Rox, like yourself, sir, resides in the sanctum of Boise. You have no idea of the tribulations that await here in the feral, primitive part of the state. :-)
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jun 16, 2012 - 05:16pm PT
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Whatever. Like YOU know anything. I can't know if you even exist. "Just A deck of cards."
"You have no idea", indeed.......I laugh robustly.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Jun 16, 2012 - 05:18pm PT
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The heart of californIa climbing beats loud and clear in every soul willing to hike around one more bend, one more valley or ridge in the hopes of finding something. SO much Of life is what you make it, and California climbing is no different. Those willing to ask and share a beer or two in the popular areas will be turned onto a side of CA climbing they never knew existed. You think you know it, but you don't and very few do...
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 16, 2012 - 06:03pm PT
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...and if not by the noble and lordly Mackenzie wolves... then certainly by rampaging, camo-wearing neo-nazis or max attack spud farmers.
Is it true that they're armed with potatoe guns?
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Jun 16, 2012 - 06:12pm PT
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Shhh.. Idaho lol. Land of the skinheads, simple minded, and tixs for anyone with CA plates. Been there done that from the pan-handle to Boise, to planting trees in the Rainbows. ID has nothing on the CA...Nothing!
Spend a day hiking MSH, climb at DTSA, wine tasting on the way home at a 90+ point winery, followed by a Michelin 3 star resteraunt. For shits and giggles grab a 40 and celebrate life at Berryessa, the best lake in the state for chillin. What do you have?
Something the ID can't and never will touch.
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Blakey
Trad climber
Newcastle UK
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Jun 16, 2012 - 06:17pm PT
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I've just stumbled into this....
I can't believe Jim's comparing California with the UK, that's a ridiculous proposition. It's way better over here.
Where I live, it ain't worth getting out of bed for anything under 10' high.
You should really think yourselves very, very, blessed.
Steve
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 16, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
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Is it true that they're armed with potatoe guns?
Yes they are, Anders. !As a lover of fries and a descendant of potato famine survivors, such implements are offensive to me and should be removed from sale immediately. The people who market and use these weapons should be imprisoned, but in a detention center more pitiless than Boise !
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 16, 2012 - 06:55pm PT
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If you outlaw potato guns only outlaws will get to eat fries!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 16, 2012 - 07:18pm PT
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Yow! .... then let us arm every home with spudzookas...wasn't this nation founded on the premise of equal opportunity ?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 16, 2012 - 07:33pm PT
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Didn't the Mormons, in their trek across the wilderness to Zion, have handcart mounted potatoe guns? Kind of mobile heavy artillery?
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Jun 16, 2012 - 07:50pm PT
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Ah the joy of thread drift.
OK!
Potatoes are kind of a sensitive subject for me.
My mother's mother homesteaded in S. Idaho in the early 1900's, and of course, her family grew potatoes.
She once bragged to me that she had eaten potatoes every day of her adult life.
Then they killed her.
Yep!
She died of liver cancer, I'm sure potato induced and exacerbated.
Only lived to age 96.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 16, 2012 - 07:55pm PT
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The historians are still arguing about it, but the introduction of the potato into Europe and then Asia, in the 16th and 17th centuries, probably led to considerable population growth, so stimulating colonialism and in due course the first industrial revolution. It was a nutritious crop which thrived in places that traditional grains didn't.
One indirect consequence may have been the Sherpas emigrating to and settling in Solu Khumbu in that time, as it became possible to grow enough to sustain a population up high.
Some cousins in Norway eat potatoes every day.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Jun 16, 2012 - 09:58pm PT
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My understanding is that a handful of potato farmers a marketing guy and a lobbyist got the state associated with potatoes for the NYC market.
Lived there almost 20 years. Never saw a potato field or nuthin. Climbing choices of moss covered boulders was thin.
California rules! Grows waaay more potatoes. Plenty of great rock climbing in all directions.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 16, 2012 - 10:17pm PT
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States with highest potato production. 2007 figures in hundredweight.
1) Idaho 117,000
2) Washington 95,000
3) Wisconsin 29,000
4) Colorado 24,000
5) Oregon 22,000
6) North Dakota 21,000
7) Minnisota 18,000
8) Maine 16,000
9) California 15,000
10) Michigan 14,000
Washington DOES grow good potatoes. When we lived in the Columbia Basin the "Norgolds" were a delectable delight. Can't buy them in SE Idaho though.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Jun 16, 2012 - 10:18pm PT
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Idaho potatoes was a marketing stunt by J.R.Simplot, who happened to be neighbor to my parents up in the Boise hills. Above his house on the hill he had a huge flag pole with a huge flag that snapped in the wind, sounding like a machine gun all night long. My parents eventually sold the house and later bought another one out of earshot of his house. Simplot was not anyone's favorite neighbor and most Idahoans are not fond of him or his company.
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Loomis
climber
Peklo Vole!
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Jun 16, 2012 - 10:32pm PT
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Jim, I can take you to climbing areas (in California) you have never "seen", you can name then and delete this thread.
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murcy
Gym climber
sanfrancisco
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Jun 16, 2012 - 11:17pm PT
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I confess to firing a home-made potato cannon into a merely "probably" empty sf canyon. I further confess that my then 10yo son and I may possibly have giggled.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 16, 2012 - 11:26pm PT
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geeziz, mouse, you get on donini's case for ignorance about california and then you give us the hicktown rundown about what los angeles should and should not be. move down here and suffer a little.
people act as though gasoline were $1.99 a gallon. if you don't want to spend more time in the car than on the crag, you learn to love the choss. westsiders who climb nothing but great granite are like kids from germ-free environments--if you get away from it, you're a goner.
the inspiration for the OP ought to be obvious to any californian. coloradoans all have advanced cases of coast envy.
"potatoe"--that was a joke, right?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 17, 2012 - 12:32am PT
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Possibly few here know that B.C.'s Pemberton Valley (~150 km north of Vancouver, past that place with the skiing) is the source of many of the seed potatoes used elsewhere in North America. Due to relative isolation, potatoes there are virus-free and stuff. http://pembertonbc.com/
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 17, 2012 - 12:54am PT
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Potatos and Sherpas.
Did you know that the poorest Sherpas who carry the heaviest loads eat up to
12 pounds of them a day? So much for scientific training diets!
And for Anders:
The Sherpas settled Solu Khumbu when they were still growing barley.
They only got the potato about 1850 by carrying it on their backs from
British gardens in Darjeeling to the Everest region.
This created a population boom and a surplus that enabled them to build
temples and monastaries and become big time traders.
I actually have a map of all the main Sherpa villages in Nepal and
how many generations they've had the potato.
I bet nobody has done that in Idaho.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 17, 2012 - 01:13am PT
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Well, that's a fascinating historical factoid. I'd read somewhere that seemed reliable that potatoes (plural) were introduced into India fairly early on, but the tidbit about the Sherpas continuing to grow barley, and eventually adding potatoes in the 19th century, is news. But the growth of the area being based on both barley and the potato (singular), and of course trade, makes sense.
Is there any study as to the expansion of farming and settlement in Khumbu, correlated as to date, population and crop? They've done that sort of thing in Norway, and found that some fields that were tilled in the 13th and 14th centuries were abandoned during the Black Death, and still haven't been reoccupied. Plus they've tracked what was grown, where, for example to look at what happened when potatoes were introduced, even though it was during a time of worse climate. (Barley and oats were the main traditional grain crops, of course.) Fascinating stuff, which you need a respectable computer to make sense of, as there's reams of data.
And yeah, who'd've thunk that Jim was so interested in potatoe cannons?
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MisterE
Social climber
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Jun 17, 2012 - 01:13am PT
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Nice troll, Jim - you sure know where to strike!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jun 17, 2012 - 01:35am PT
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Tony, I have lived in SoCal--SD, Culver City, and Oxnard, and of course spent a lot of time in Box Cyn. I loathe LA. You Angelenos are welcome to the chossy, freeway-dominated lifestyle. Nobody's making you stay there, mon.
Let's quit the regional slams, okay? Proves only that we are stupid. Bloom where you grow.
Dan Quayl (sic) was a joke. Right?
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 17, 2012 - 01:42am PT
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The "potato" is the King of vegetables.
and the "mango" is the king of fruits .......
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Jun 17, 2012 - 01:45am PT
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Jebus....was at Arches Apron area recently on a beautiful weekend day. No one there except the birds and climbs put up over thirty years ago. All rebolted and just waiting. If no pacifiers to suck on (re: cams etc.) then climbs are empty. Just you and the birds. F Colarado. Everybody moved there thinking they getting away from it. Boulder was a great place........twenty years ago.
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wstmrnclmr
Trad climber
Bolinas, CA
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Jun 17, 2012 - 02:32am PT
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Man..I miss Rokjox...at least that guy honestly mixed it up...even if you are from Idaho.....
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 17, 2012 - 04:27am PT
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Do people in states with fewer mountains have higher I.Q.?
According to this source, Mass has the highest average IQ and North Dakota has second highest. But mountainous Wyoming has high average IQ. And dear Idaho is 5th highest IQ in the west.
Is IQ related to terrain, temperature or....yes, places with highest percentage of Norwegian ancestry ? :-)
http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/manyeyes/visualizations/iq-by-state-us-2
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Stewart Johnson
climber
lake forest
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Jun 17, 2012 - 10:30am PT
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nepalise potatoes grown in the khumbu are the best tasting potatoes on the planet.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 17, 2012 - 10:32am PT
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mister mouse, you are a piece of work.
I loathe LA. You Angelenos are welcome to the chossy, freeway-dominated lifestyle.
and in the same breath:
Let's quit the regional slams, okay?
but at least you understand the principles of vowel rationing.
mister E has it right. this is an old troll. eddie haskell donini is smirking at his computer in the san juans, delighted to have californians bickering with each other again. he even got a californian to bump it. but he also knows that coast envy is a worse fate than dorian gray's.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 17, 2012 - 10:39am PT
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There is nothing good in California. You all need to move to Colorado where real men live.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Social climber
Retired in Appalachia
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Jun 17, 2012 - 11:20am PT
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You all need to move to Colorado where real men live...
...and the sheep are afraid
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jun 17, 2012 - 12:25pm PT
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donini is a homophobic.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 17, 2012 - 02:15pm PT
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What effect does lutefisk - usually eaten with potatoes - have on intelligence? How about pickled herring?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 17, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
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What is a sheepshagger phobia called?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 17, 2012 - 03:27pm PT
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Look at those IQ stats for Wyo and South Dakota. I'd call that 'the Dingus McGee factor'!
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jun 17, 2012 - 04:11pm PT
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I claim my right as an American to a double standard. ::00))
This could easily sub-divide to Northern vs. Southern California. In which case
yer gonna die.
I'm going to go watch Graeme win the Open. Later.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 17, 2012 - 05:39pm PT
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What effect does lutefisk - usually eaten with potatoes - have on intelligence? How about pickled herring?
I don't know, Anders...but all of the states with higher than 100 average IQ have substantial ancestry from Norway and Sweden (except Mass, Vermont and New Hampshire).
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 17, 2012 - 05:54pm PT
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the high IQ in north dakota is due to large groups of DoD scientists working in underground bunkers. north dakota no longer contains any farmers of norwegian descent, as they have all been smart enough to move to florida. not quite smart enough, however, to understand that california would have been a better move.
the smartest norwegian to immigrate to north dakota was sondre norheim, inventor of the stem christie, the parallel turn, the telemark turn, the advanced cable binding, modern skiing and snow sport in general, and, off the roof of his home in morgedal, ski jumping. however, he wasn't smart enough to know that there is no skiable terrain in north dakota, where his days ended ingloriously as a cross-country skier, save for the glory moment of running the mail out to montana.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 17, 2012 - 05:57pm PT
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Hey, my grandfather immigrated to North Dakota, if only for a few days en route to Saskatchewan.
Sondre Norheim. I've been to Morgedal, and somewhere have photos of his birthplace.
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go-B
climber
Habakkuk 3:19 Sozo
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Jun 17, 2012 - 06:31pm PT
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FA's await!
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Jun 17, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
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Lowly potato's future buried in Peru's Andes
By Monte Hayes
AYMARA, Peru — The humble potato puts on a dazzling display at 13,000 feet above sea level.
Along the frigid spine of the Andes, men and women in bare feet uproot tubers of multiple shapes and colors — yellow, red, blue, purple, violet, pink with yellow spots, yellow with pink spots; round, oblong, twisted, hooked at the end like walking canes or spiraled like spinning tops.
Their names in Quechua, the ancient language of the Andes, evoke an intimate human connection: "best black woman," "best red woman," "makes the daughter-in-law cry," "like a deer's white tongue," "red shadow" and "like an old bone," to name a few.
Respect for the many variations of potatoes is so profound among Aymara's 650 villagers that it was a natural place for the world's agronomists to produce seeds for a gene bank to preserve their diversity. The cold climate also protects against parasites that infest low-lying potato farms.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003761428_taters25.html
http://www.potato2008.org/en/potato/origins.html
Other Andean tubers:
http://agro.biodiver.se/2011/06/not-all-andean-tubers-are-potatoes/
Lost Crops of the Incas (scroll down for index to online reading)
http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=1398
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jun 17, 2012 - 10:23pm PT
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Hard to believe such a topic could inspire so many entries.
I get the sense Jim likes to pull everyone's leg and will throw out
a comment calculated to stir discussion and aggravate nerves...
just a little.
My friend Royal Robbins has long hunted out various "secret" crags,
mostly granite things in the Sierra around his cabin at Pinecrest,
or not a long drive from there. I did a small measure of this with him,
and a few things were pretty "chossy," if I understand that term.
Other stuff was beautiful, clean, wonderfully steep with
holds on walls that look holdless, great stuff. Not always easy
to find the back roads
to such places. I agree with Bob D'Antonio that there
is more rock in the Sierra than anyone could ever cover in a lifetime.
Even Yosemite... How many of us have done everything we ever could
want to do there? Always there remain so many routes we just didn't
get to. And Tahquitz. That's an important part of the climbing
experience, what remains in imagination, the sense of the unknown,
the mystery of great climbs for which our hearts and minds long.
Just to go and repeat some of the classics, at, say, Tahquitz,
to live some of that history, could be a joyful chore of a couple
decades. Pinnacles, you name it, the well-known areas alone could
challenge the best of climbers, in terms of doing even half of
what's there. Tuolumne... a place of endless wondrous dream climbs...
a seasonal thing, but so much the better perhaps, not to overdo
that world... The bigger mountains, wow, a few photos posted, tons of
stuff. The same is true in Colorado. Endless climbs have not yet
been done, and there are countless areas that await development. I
mean... for example, the high country of Rocky Mountain National
Park. How many more routes might there be on Chief's Head, were
one person or a team interested in that walk...?
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jun 17, 2012 - 10:29pm PT
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Pat is wise....But then, we knew THAT.
I agree, heartily.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jun 17, 2012 - 10:39pm PT
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a gracious bit of appreciation, mr. oliver.
might we drift this thread in the direction of the possible existence of choss in colorado?
i realize that you have some trouble understanding the term, as its presence in your state would be extremely rare. perhaps, if you would venture close to a population center, if such a thing exists ...
someone once told me there are chossy bells in colorado. i found that hard to understand.
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gonzo chemist
climber
Fort Collins, CO
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Jun 17, 2012 - 11:08pm PT
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F*#K California. There's nothing left to climb there. I mean, unless you like granite. Like really solid, clean granite...even up at 13,000 ft. But who the hell LIKES that stuff??? Perfect weather? WTF?! TOTALLY overrated. f*#k that sh#t. F*#k the Sierra...worthless. I also heard that Joshua Tree has nothing to offer. That's why they call it 'Chossua Tree.'
Don't ever go here...totally blows....there's so many people, you're really fighting the crowds. Might as well get sushi in mid-town Manhattan on a Friday afternoon.
Actually had to take a number to climb this classic. It was like trying to get into NYC's Peter Lugar Steakhouse. Totally overrun by the masses. Except that there was no one there. At all.
Heard this place is a waste of time....nothing but crappy bullet-hard limestone. NO ONE likes that stuff.
Did I mention that the granite is complete choss? And by "choss" I mean "pristine." SURE there are splitter cracks....but really, why bother? The urban feel of this place is a real buzz-kill. The other nice couple that climbed up there (about a half mile away) were so obnoxious that we forgot they were there.
The weather sucks too! And what's with all the crowds???
Its so low-angle here, that everyone just stink-bugs their way up the routes. Its so slabby that the people line up like lemmings! Wait, I swear there were other people out there that day. I guess somewhere...
Did I mention the stink-buggin'? I literally had to fend off the crowds to get on this roadside classic. It was out of control. Hoards were fighting for the lead...I mean, there were like 4 people at that whole cliff. Or was it two? What can I say....climbing on perfect granite patina isn't for everyone.
Truth be told, everyone thinks its Heaven.
But its just filled with lifeless rock.
Just a whole lot of nothingness out there...
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Jun 17, 2012 - 11:14pm PT
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Maybe the Donini is lookin' for a nice bridge. Who knows?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jun 18, 2012 - 01:04am PT
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Nice photos, GC !
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bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
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Jun 18, 2012 - 02:18am PT
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Good one gonzo c.
just about every cliff in those pics is better than "the diamond"
now that's an over rated slag heap.
there are at least 50+ better walls in CA
HA!!
figure it out!
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Jun 18, 2012 - 02:51am PT
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I think the OP meant to say "The sad truth about California climbers". But good luck with that thread too.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Jun 18, 2012 - 10:11am PT
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Hey, Big Domino:
"San Francisco International Airport and Tuolumne--our pastoral land of Oz."--from Nerve Wrack Point, pAment/tHiggins
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Jun 18, 2012 - 10:38am PT
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I could not tell if bitter ol' guy was being
playful, or serious... or what... and if
"the diamond" refers to the Diamond on Longs?
A slag heap? Hmmm... Or is this just to carry
on with Gonzo's sarcasm...? Even the Diamond,
one of the most beautiful and spectacular walls
anywhere, has its days where no one is there,
where one can experience that original
beautiful aloneness... Someone else mentioned
how it is possible to work around the "crowds"
and find serenity, even with the most used
rock....
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Jan 25, 2015 - 06:10pm PT
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ohh so not true. San Diego county's back country is pure rock, MAYBE 20% has been mined. Mt San Jacinto has so much rock its out of control, and they are just getting into it with the tramway and round valley routes. I dont think garner valley has really been touched, hulking granite formations dominate the skyline there. So much rock hasnt even been looked at yet.
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ruppell
climber
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Jan 25, 2015 - 10:44pm PT
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The sad truth about Cali climbing is it's the best in the nation. That's why I moved here. Not sad for me but sad for the rest of the folks in the other 49 states.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 26, 2015 - 01:12am PT
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Yeah Jim, California sucks brother, it's a sad fact......
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jan 26, 2015 - 06:23am PT
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Anyone checked out the rock around Carumba camp on the SE corner of San Jacinto? Always looked at it but never made it down there.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jan 26, 2015 - 06:43am PT
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Apparently Jim has difficulty getting away from the populated areas.....
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jan 26, 2015 - 07:29am PT
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That stone around Caramba has always intrigued me, too...never looked at it up close, though. Was camped in Reeds Meadow years ago during an earthquake- heard a bunch of rockfall from that area.
Did a descent of Tahquitz Canyon a looong time ago, starting at Caramba- found a dead guy, a psychedelic mushroom painting w/ a trombone leaning against it, some kind of weird improvised shed, and a whacked out dude wearing nothing but a pair of jeans and a comb in his back pocket. That canyon's got some weird stuff goin' on, lemmetellyou.
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Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Jan 26, 2015 - 07:36am PT
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It's nice that CA's 40M people live far from the goods.
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