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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 10, 2005 - 07:06pm PT
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Excellent pic of the snow, Jody. I remember going in there with Rubine on a day of snow -- it covered the entire valley from the Fire Station as we drove in on 25.
As for replacing 1/4" bolts with other 1/4" bolts, God man, don't you have any sense?? If you want adventure, hook the entire BB line and only clip a bolt when you get scared...
Now don't wake me up with this nonsense again, I need my beauty sleep.
:- k
Ed: Ah yes, Salathe's Hand...I was out there with Brooks and BruceH, replacing old bolts and what-not. There I found 'em, the two pins that were the original anchors at the first belay. I couldn't believe my eyes. I hammered them out, and Bruce goes "Give 'em to me, I'll send them the the Access Fund and they can auction them off for big bucks!" Silly me....I listened. Who knows whatever happened to those.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
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Nov 10, 2005 - 07:10pm PT
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It's the Middle Tower on Old Original. The bald guy is sitting right at the rappel anchors.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Nov 10, 2005 - 07:27pm PT
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Kevin I do not think that I know you.
More loose routes
Feeding Frenzy, What if, Pipeloads to Pluto, The Boles route.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Nov 10, 2005 - 07:35pm PT
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More controversy. I retro bolted an aid route after freeing it. I added a bolt that would keep people from most likely hitting the ground if they fell in the crux. I'm fairly confident that this part had been aided on the fa and that they would have placed another bolt if they could not have placed a pin. With time the pin placements were mostly gone. I did some funky hooking and bi-caming to aid past on the first go. I then freed it. Is the added bolt bad form? Do you think it should be pulled if so why? fa party is unknown.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
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Nov 10, 2005 - 09:01pm PT
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You know my view, but you're one of my best friends, and that comes first. No added bolts, no excuses. Now be careful, some rumor monger is going to take what you just admitted to, mix it with lots of negativity, accuse you of being an egomaniac, and then it's fact. For the record people, other than this one serious transgression (which I had no part in, so don't start the rumor mill churning again), this guy Mud is tough as hell, bold and has excellent ethics. He also isn't bothered by bad rock, bad pro, brush crashing, or any of the other crap stuff that can be found while exploring the Pinnacles back country. He is however, an inveterate sandbagger, pathalogically incapable of rating a climb anything other than 5.9+ or 5.10d. I once led a climb he had put up and rated 5.10a. (On the Frog.) Solid 10c, scared the sh#t out of me. Luckily Mud followed it. Ten feet from the top here's his comment: "I wish I had some more of that ." I said: "More of what?" His reply: "Whatever the hell I was on when I rated that 10a." True story.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Nov 10, 2005 - 09:24pm PT
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In reply to Brad.
Well I am an egomaniac. That is why I put up the route in question. The rest of what you wrote is bunk. I can prove that since I do not rate routes 10d, I prefer 10c. The route in question is not any harder than the 10a that Bird guy put up. The one right next to the trail that people like to flail on.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Nov 10, 2005 - 10:14pm PT
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confession time
I used to wear black lycra in the 80s and early 90s.
I got better.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Nov 10, 2005 - 10:16pm PT
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Oh, and Mud is afraid of ticks.
Me too. I'm fanatical about checking for them.
I hear there's a natural non toxic oil you can use as a repellant, rather than deet. Anyone know the name of this? It's something other than Eucalyptus.
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
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Nov 10, 2005 - 10:45pm PT
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Come on Billygoat, you started this thread, what's your reaction to Mud's transgression? He added a bolt to an existing aid line so he could lead it free.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Nov 10, 2005 - 11:53pm PT
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"confession time
I used to wear black lycra in the 80s and early 90s.
I got better."
I knew it. Dude yer not right.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Nov 11, 2005 - 12:29am PT
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" I retro bolted an aid route after freeing it."
That sounds like a pretty odd style to me...How did you protect it when you first free'd it? Did you free it from the ground up after you aided it or did you TR it and then add the bolt?
What route is that anyway?
:- kelly
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Nov 11, 2005 - 12:45am PT
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Way too much stuff to reply to so I am only going to reply to one specific comment made by Billygoat.
There has never been any bolts added to the Shaft. The Shaft was originally an aid climb and the spacing of the bolts reflected this. When I first free-climbed the route in the late 70's you just clipped all the 1/4"'s and hoped for safety in numbers. When we at Friends of Pinnacles (www.pinnacles.org) rebolted the Shaft on a blustery day in January 2003 we did a bolt for bolt replacement except that I did not replace the 2nd to last bolt (1/4" bolted piton) in the aid ladder as a historical momento.
Billygoat, sorry if you think the new bolts look bad. My recommendation to you is that if those bolts look bad, stop climbing at the Pinnacles.
Bruce
ps - the Pinnacles is all about adventure climbing in the far reaches of the Monument. I feel sorry for those who only climb at the most accessible areas in Bear Gulch (Tourist Trap, Discovery Wall, Monolith, etc.). You are truly missing out in the whole Pinnacles experience. Hiking out from the High Peaks with the sun well below the horizon is a magical and special experience. That's what climbing is all about. Heck everybody climbs 5.11/5.12. It's just not that special anymore (or was it ever!?!?)
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Nov 11, 2005 - 12:49am PT
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hang him high, real high! like off the balconies, like a goat.
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billygoat
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 01:07am PT
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Alright Bradley!
You want facts, here are some facts:
1. I raise a sh#t storm and the bolt gets removed.
2. K-man is not an aid climber. Sorry, I don't know how I woke you up, but that's f*#ked up if I did (turn your computer off when you go to sleep for christ sakes).
3. Black lycra ain't that bad (look at all the bikers). Tom Davis STILL wears the neon sh#t on occasion!
4. You and I agree a lot more than you might think: no added bolts without the first ascentionist's permission, no excuses. If they're not alive, then you have a responsibility to mimic their style as best as possible. A route, free or aid, is a work of art and should be respected as such. As I recall k-man was unhappy when some convenience anchors got added to one of his routes just last winter. So really, what's with all this beauty sleep nonsense--you care too!
PS--sorry for the lag in reply. Unlike Kelly, I don't spend my life around computers (and that's fact number...)
PPS--I only got snowed on once at the Pinns. Didn't stick for more than 15 minutes. Those were awesome photos.
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F'ueco
Boulder climber
San Jose, CA
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Nov 11, 2005 - 01:14am PT
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The other burning question is:
Who the hell bolted all those boulder problems on the west side?
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billygoat
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 01:14am PT
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Bruce,
You misunderstood my post. I didn't think the bolts looked bad. It was the rock. Like you said, safety in numbers. The reason I thought it was retrobolted was due to the bolt count in the blue Rubine guide. There were far more than his count (including the historical momento--which was totally cool: piton used as bolt hanger!). But, like I said, I wasn't complaining about there being more bolts than the guide said. Safety in numbers counts on rock that fractured. The bolts were bomber, and I was happy to have that in free mode. Killer climb, and killer job up there. I didn't mean to complain about your work at all.
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billygoat
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 01:16am PT
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Which routes are you refering to F'ueco?
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
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Nov 11, 2005 - 01:18am PT
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You know Billygoat, Bruce is exactly right. I climbed the Shaft before and after the rebolting. Why do you make assumptions when you lack knowledge? No-one ever retro bolted the Shaft. Was your post a typo, and did you mean re instead of retro? You used the word "clearly" as if you were sure. Do you realize that when you make such statements it hurts and angers people? Your statement was presented as fact but it isn't true and was really a guess. If you're going to guess, why not guess on the positive side of an issue instead of the negative side (might surprise you how many really good human beings are out there.) To quote the guy who started this thread: "what the f*#k?"
Also, the rock on the Shaft isn't that bad (although this statement is obviously opinion and we could argue all night about that.) And I really, really agree with Bruce about the Pinns back country (although, too I like climbing in Bear Gulch).
Look, I don't mean to lecture (although I clearly am), but give people the benefit of the doubt.
Also, understand that in any bolt replacement there are always value calls (classic example - what to do if the old hole blows out when replacing a bolt? This happens in Pinns rock more often than you'd like. Can't reuse it, gotta go with as close as possible.)
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mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
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Nov 11, 2005 - 01:24am PT
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Sh*t, everyone's posting at once. Yeah, Billygoat, I think you and I agree about a lot, in fact I can't find any serious differences. Still, I meant what I said about making assumptions. Assume the best, and then if you're proven wrong, crack down like hell on the problem. You made assumptions about me in your first post that aren't true and it didn't leave me feeling really good. That's not a good start. I don't think Bruce was thrilled with your erroneous assumptions about the Shaft, another example.
Good night all, B. Young
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billygoat
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 01:43am PT
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Well Brad,
Honestly, I'm not sure what to say. Perhaps it was the error of Rubine's guide, and my assumption that it was correct that led me to label it as a retro job. As I recall there were 2-3 unexpected bolts (given the fact that the one was left as a memento).
As for the whole stay positive issue...that's probably outside the scope of this thread, but whatever. We're all ranting here, so I'm not gonna stop before anybody else. But I will say I'm sorry to k-man--I hope yer awake.
I come from one of those "politically correct" feel good and everything will be alright towns, and I think that breeds a sort of tacitly apathetic, hedonistic attitude the world would be better without. Facts are based in perspective, and perspective is always displayed (to some degree) as a matter of opinion. Therefore, from another's perspective assumptions can be more easily identified. That's why I post. To get other's opinions. Often, the best way to get another's opinion is to say things that strike their conscience. Pissing people off is a natural by product, but oh well. Life is tough, and the weak wither.
All the same, I don't mean to hurt anybody directly. I just want to get to the heart of an issue. One of my best teachers taught me that taking offense displays a kind of vulnerability. So instead of taking offense I try to ask myself what ticked me off and respond to the what and not the who. Makes life harder and more rewarding all the same.
Hope that explains where I come from when I catch you off guard.
Good dreams.
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