Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 93 of total 93 in this topic |
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 10, 2005 - 12:02pm PT
|
So, the rumor mill has been spinning a bit about Brad Young's upcoming Pinns guide: The dude (I can't believe I just called a lawyer a dude) has done more routes than the total listed in the current Rubine guide. The dude doesn't push himself past 11c, so clearly he's done a bunch of obscure stuff on his own.
Question (not for Jim): is Young attempting a hostile takeover of Pinnacles supremacy by publishing a new guidebook which will largely stroke his own ego and display a bunch of contrived lines nobody will ever do?
If any of you have done some of Bird's old routes there, you know he picked a bunch of classics. He also picked some shitty ass rock. A while back I went up an aide line called Bridwell bolts only to find that an old rivet ladder with a cool pinn and hook section had been totally retrobolted with five piece rawls. Even the hook move was gone. The character of the line had been destroyed, and the most recent offender was Brad Young! The dude had spent much time replacing the majority of the bad bolts with bomber ones on one of the chossiest, otherwise untouched, faces at the pinns. What the f*#k?
Wondering what Bridwell would think about this? I know he used to be a big proponent of less than solid bolt/riviet ladders--in order to keep the masses at bay. So I've got a pretty good idea. But if there's any way to get his current opinion, that would be sweet.
|
|
dodangler
Trad climber
truckee
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 12:28pm PT
|
I am curious about the Pinnacles, not being from the bay and only having spent one weekend climbing there and for the life of me I can't remember one climb. This is coming from a guy that remembers every piece needed and move on a climb. Is it not all sort of contrived there? I remember the rock being somewhat like Smith but of way lesser quality. I am sure it must have some quality routes, and its a great option if you live in the bay and you can't get to a real crag, but come on.... wouldn't it be more interesting to talk about Crimpies rack!
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2005 - 01:16pm PT
|
Compared to Sierra Granite, the rock sucks. Compared to Fisher Towers, it's Sierra Granite. Rock quality, in actuality, is highly variable. When's the last time you desired the Black Kaweah? There's bad rock wherever you go, trick in climbing is to keep off it when possible and not break it when impossible. The common Pinns addage is "pull down, not out." This usually works quite well. Still, for new comers, the experience can be a bit unsettling.
I wonder what side you went to when you were there? West side tends of have pretty bad rock. East side is usually better.
PS--don't forget: rumor has it that the next ST guide is gonna be to the Pinns!
|
|
salad
climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 01:37pm PT
|
this should be good.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 02:13pm PT
|
I will start with my background at the Pins. I have climbed there for about 20 years. The only person to have climbed more individual routes at the Pins is Brad. I have done about 100 fewer routes than he has. The hardest route I have redpointed at the pins is 12b or c. I've done all but 2 11's. Put up as many routes as anybody. My hardest fa around 11b, although to be honest I think I proabably have only put up 2 decent routes. I have probably climbed more pitches at the Pins than anyone. When I say pitches that includes countless repeats of so called classics. There I now feel better with that strokefest. Ahhhhhhhh. Dam that felt good.
Brad is not doing a hostile take over. He talked with Rubine. He has also talked with most everyone who has any history with the place. Is he doing it to stroke his "ego". Probably. I mean WTF, why else. Community service... Bah Humbug.
I will say Brad has done almost every route that he is putting in the new guide. Not just walked by the base. So the topo's and approach info is correct. With most the 100 or so routes outside his range he is talking to people that have done the routes. The history section is very complete. It should be a decent guide. Is Brad a nice guy. Oh hell no. We all hate him. That is why we occasionally climb with him.
Am I a nice guy. No. I hate you. If you don't love the Pins you don't count. Go away, go sport climbin in yer fancy pink lycra. Yer pimp hairdoo is outa place. DIE.
The end.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 02:19pm PT
|
As far as the Bridwell bolt ladder. I think he was trying to upgrade the thing. It was not a rivet ladder. They were the bolts of the day. 1/4".
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 02:26pm PT
|
"Question (not for Jim): is Young attempting a hostile takeover of Pinnacles supremacy by publishing a new guidebook which will largely stroke his own ego and display a bunch of contrived lines nobody will ever do?
Umm, WTF is "Pinnacles supremacy" and why would Brad give a rat's arse to hold that?? Does researching and publishing a guide always mean the author does it to stroke his ego?
With the Sanora guide, Brad published about an area to which he had a lot of info. With the Pinns guide, Brad is working with a few others, but here he has a lot of info nobody else can touch. I for one am looking forward to it because like Brad, I like to do obscure old lines.
As for Bridwell Bolts, it would be interesting to see if Jim cares at all about that old choss pile.
ION, I talked to Rubine. They want him to update his book, but can't because he's now out of state. It'll be interesting to see how the new publishers handle that one...
:- k
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 03:17pm PT
|
so much drama, so much innuendo
I'm going to have to go with mynameismud on this one:
DIE
LOL!!
|
|
lazide
Big Wall climber
Bay Area, CA
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 03:37pm PT
|
re: Bridwell Bolts
There is still quite a few of the old bolts there (crappy 1/4" generic dryvin's with hangers) - I pulled a couple of pointless ugly ones with a few of light funks last weekend, but there are still plenty left for everyone's amusement. (Buddy of mine did it for aid practice while I dodged falling dirt clods).
re: missing pin and hooks moves - while possible someone added bolts to bypass, it seems unlikely from looking at the route. Most likely they just busted off (huge chunks of the route have obvious fallen/been ripped off relatively recently). A buddy of mine had a bomber looking grappling hook blow on him (after he was 3/4 of the way up his aiders!) when the whole small 'shelf' he was hooking blew apart.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 04:40pm PT
|
Way too much to respond to. You see I'm too important to take time for the little people. (I hope the original post was also meant in fun.) As to Bridwell Bolts I replaced existing bolts on a one for one basis and left much of the choss. For a very full discussion on this subject, see letters on the Friends of Pinnacles web page. My biggest fear about Pinns is that people will actually start adding bolts to existing lines in the name of "safety", making it all just another crag. This is precisely what I didn't do (although so many bolts of so many types had been put on this route over the years it is easy to see how confusion has arisen). Don't accuse me of adding bolts (as opposed to replacing them) unless you know the facts. And watch your language about me "not pushing myself past 11c." That's a pretty dumb misuse of English. The word is "can't" not "doesn't." I've led harder, but haven't been able to yet at Pinns. I guess we can't all be superheros. Lastly, if by "done a bunch of obscure stuff on his own" you mean first ascents, then no not really. I've only done a few FAs at Pinns, maybe a dozen or fifteen? And none of any partular quality. Instead, I decided 20 years ago to climb everything at Pinns easier than 5.12. Why? Because I love the place. It is beautiful and climbing there still has a big element of adventure (now there's something that I think Bridwell himself would agree with!). I have climbed many, many obscure lines there, but that's none of your business. I do it for myself and out of a love of climbing there. As far as putting obscure stuff in a guidebook, I want it to be a complete reflection of all that's been done there, which is why the history chapter is very long (the chapter is also very positive and complimentary of climbers who have come before us). Will people climb long, older stuff there? Some will, many won't. Is it a criteria now for a guidebook to include only stuff that many people will do? Maybe. I note that Marty Lewis in his 10th edition to the ORG guide included climbs that are now flooded, so maybe not. Here's a novel idea: if you don't like it, don't buy it when it comes out and don't ask for a freebie. Instead, write your own book on what you want covered. And for God's sake don't go out into the Pinnacles outback, you might actually have fun on something that isn't a trade route.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 04:47pm PT
|
Despite all this reasonableness...
I'm still backing my "DIE" endorsement.
;)
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 04:49pm PT
|
It's not a rumor Jody. It's a photo of you doing a Tyrolean across Bear Gulch (cute little Converse All Stars). I put it in to illustrate a point in the history section that Pinns has often been seen as a training ground for "bigger and better things." (And thanks again for forwarding the photo.) And by the way, if anyone reading this has decent quality photos of climbing at Pinns that they're willing to let me look at for inclusion please forward them in digital format (with information about who's climbing on what and who took it). Thanks. And by the way, don't worry Billygoat about calling "a lawyer a dude." As far as you need to know, I'm a human being and a climber. I am a lawyer for a living but that's not relevant to me as a climber AND it sure the hell doesn't make me better or deserving of more respect than anyone else.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 04:54pm PT
|
don't be mistaken though, he'll still try and bargain all the leads he can get.
:)
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 04:57pm PT
|
Oh yeah Munge, that's a given. If you're not leading you're not climbing. Hand over the rope NOW.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 04:57pm PT
|
Do people on the East Coast say "Dude"?
|
|
Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 05:05pm PT
|
If this dude put up the FA of "Cuidado", then he's a bad a** for putting up the best route there. If not, then nevermind.
I welcome the new guide. If, he's not chipping or stuff like that one fellow was accused of 10 years ago, then whatever... Unless you live in the Gilroy/Salinas/Monterey area, why get worked up on the Pinns anyway? It's funky/obscure area w/ rock as solid as Lee Vining Ice. Gotta love pulling brittle 5.11 edges over a crap bolt that flexes under your own weight in 100 degree heat!
For Bay Area folk it's the same drive to places w/ better rock: Table Mtn, Donner, the Leap, Big Chief... And for a whole hour more, you get Yos.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 05:15pm PT
|
One more "by the way." Don't expect it soon. I'm serious about giving the place careful and thorough treatment (what it deserves in my opinion). This takes incredible amounts of time (unbelievable amounts!). Earliest release date I'm looking at is Autumn of '07 (ie at least 22 more months).
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 05:16pm PT
|
I like this Mr_T guy.
He'll be able to scare all the noobs from ever going there.
Sweet, more darkened waterstreak jug hauls over 3/8" x 4" well placed and camouflaged bolts for me.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2005 - 05:20pm PT
|
I hope people on the beast coast say dude, it would do them some good.
Dude, Hostile=Retrobolting. No matter who did it. Yes, I know Brad insists it wasn't him, but there sure as hell isn't a hook move at the lip. So what is Bridwell's opinion of any of his old lines being destroyed in character (regardless of who did it).
And, on that note, should a quarter inch bolt really be replace by a five piece rawl? Especially in shitty ass pinns rock? I think the ASCA took a very interesting stand on this issue when they asked Sloan for all their gear back.
There's definitely a shady area in bolt replacement where the line between retrobolting and rebolting is not firmly established. I would love to know Bridwell's opinion. I mean, if it were my route and I'd done it forty years ago (this is all totally theoretical), I'd at least want somebody to ask permission before they went up and changed anything. Look at, for instance, Klaus' recent posts on the Jesus Built My Hotrod page.
Brad, I will say, it sounds like a cool guidebook. It'll be interesting to compare the history section to that of the Rubine guide. I would have said you couldn't climb harder than 11c, but that seemed a little rude. Don't you think you probably could if you tried? Especially if you did in the past. Also, too bad you don't identify with your career more. Sucks when we can't get paid to do what we love. As I recall, Marx had something interesting to say about the evolution of the alienated worker and their devotion to hobbie...what was that...
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2005 - 05:26pm PT
|
Oh please, oh please, oh please,
lets not open the can of worms on Cuidado!
Before I have to totally trash that line, I'd like to nominate it as a great route name (as per k-mans thread). One of the best. Actually, we should start calling Pinns "Cuidado National Monument."
Nuff said.
|
|
short-rope penis-head
Trad climber
nor cal biiiaaaatch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 05:32pm PT
|
Wow, never thought my home area would get so much play!
I like some of you other sprayer's, have climbed a lot of the pinn's routes. I grew up in Salinas, and now am a college student in San Francisco. I've climbed up to .13c (lard butt...in the new guidebook can it have at least a star, it's like a fun boulder problem!), and done stuff as obscure as the Shaft and other high peaks bush wack routes. My little sister and I even have done routes with "eye" protection, such as the Resurection Wall in april, were we used goggles to protect our eyes from the five inch thick lichen on the first pitch. I love the pinn's just as much as anyone...
Most people who climb at the pinn's do so at the monolith, disco, the trap, and the backdoor. And at these locations most parties only do like 6 routes (POD, Cantalope, Reg Route, Wet Kiss, ext). To most pinn's users there are like 10 routes worth while in the whole monument. Even killer classics like Rocket in my Pocket are usually chalk free.
What i'm saying is: Who cares if a new guide is written?
No one, save a handful of us, will climb the obscures, which to most climbers visiting the pinn's is like 95% of the park.
A new guide will not piss off Rubine, he doesn't even climb here anymore.
I'd like to read the history section! The pinn's is indeed a spot of climbing history interest.
Some new, "good routes" are up since the last book, i.e. Karl's .13a on the back of the mono.
Oh, and bridwell bolts? If any of y'all want some hook moves on that shitty of rock do Bongladesh on the west side, hah.
rebolting is cool, placing new bolts to augment pro on existing routes is lame.
peace,
Kevin Friedrich
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 05:36pm PT
|
Brad wrote
" I'm a human being and a climber."
I call Bullsh*t on this statement. Not true on either account.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2005 - 05:43pm PT
|
Kevin, I think you've got retrobolting and rebolting confused. Retrobolting is placing new bolts on a pre-existing line. Rebolting is replacing old bolts.
Sweet... the Shaft! I've met so few others who've done that one. Great line, great summit, and some of the worst rock Pinns offers. Clearly was retrobolted, but I couldn't complain because so many of the bolts looked like the pull the rock apart before they stopped a fall.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 05:46pm PT
|
Hey Billygoat, You don't think I've tried to lead harder than 11c? I do well up to that grade even with bad pro (I've redpointed Crack-a-Go-Go), but I sure start to fade in strength and ability after that level. Still, I have a ton of fun. Also, I'm tired of the controversy over Bridwell Bolts. I'm quite certain that the bolt that's been the subject of controversy is one that I placed, as a replacement in an existing hole. Still, in hindsight I'd bet that it wasn't placed by Bridwell (but who can tell given all the crap that been added to the route over the years?) I'll be there next the first weekend of December (weather allowing). I'm going to remove this REPLACEMENT bolt and carefully patch and camo the hole. This will leave replacement bolts lower on the route (is that OK?) but perhaps restore the original intent. And stop insisting that I retroed the bolt. I've led a fair amount of A4 in the Valley. I've done Premeditated on the Balconies. (Have you? We - Mynameismud and I - did beef up the 40 year old anchor bolts on this too, I hope that's OK.) Why in hell would I add a bolt to a very easy aid route? And thanks for your concern about my career (seriously, thanks for being concerned.) But, don't worry, I love my "job" which is actually self employment. I really feel like I get to help people as a lawyer here in our small community. It's just that this has nothing to do with my avocation (this means you should feel free to call me dude - a word I use perhaps too much myself).
|
|
short-rope penis-head
Trad climber
nor cal biiiaaaatch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 05:50pm PT
|
mynameismud, billy goat, other pinn's fans,
where do you live? I hope at least in Monterey County! haha
I climbed at the pinn's through JR. hgh and high school becasue I lived in Salinas and the park is all I had.
Now that I go to school in te city I usually climb at places like the valley, that are too big for wanabee localism.
Can everybody stop f*#king fighting about my buddies and I's home, and hopefully yours?
Do I know you guys? say yes or no if you dont want to say your name.
Lets be choss cimbing friends together! Stop worrying about this and enjoy climbing, beers, and girls!!
Pointless localism is for under-educated surfers in Pacific Grove!!
Yay!
Kevin Friedrich
|
|
short-rope penis-head
Trad climber
nor cal biiiaaaatch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 05:54pm PT
|
billygoat,
yeah, mixed up my word choice with retro...probably cause i'm all wacked out on allergy medicine right now.
I think the rock and bolts on the shaft ar relatively nice compared to some a bunch of the stuff i've done at the pinns!
yay!
Kevin Friedrich
|
|
aldude
climber
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 06:03pm PT
|
All this Dude talk - I had to chime in. West side Rocks! Is that quaint liitle FREE campground still there? When I was a Banana Slug in 1980 it was the obvious winter big wall choice. Freed a route there on the Machete (Son of Dawn Wall?) The first pitch had like 16 Quarter inchers and if I had popped I think I would have zippered the pitch! I'd love to see the new guide come out. That picture on ST thread about potential new books - Machete,West side - was glorious.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2005 - 06:06pm PT
|
Brad,
sweet, I'm glad to hear about the bolt removal. I look forward to trying it with the hook move. If you get a chance, could you give a quick look under the roof and see about the possibility of fixed pinns there. That would be the last step in fully restoring the line. I'd be happy to do that half of the work.
Only thing I've climbed on the balconies is lava falls. Frankly, I'm not that stoked on the west side. I'm more into the high peaks and the east side. Kinda feel like the true essence of Pinns climbing is in the small stuff that gives you the big thrill. But perhaps I should do more on the west side, before I truly make up my mind.
Kevin, what's with this territorial bull-sh-i-t. Monterey County? There's a rather large amount of Pinns "locals" from Santa Cruz, yo! And "home," as far as I'm concerned, is where you make it.
On a lighter note, what's the worst rock you've encountered at the Pinns (if you don't remember Shaft as being that bad).
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 06:07pm PT
|
Al, do you remember the route Swanson's Crack? Will you ever go back to finish the second pitch or can we call it abandoned? Also, your description of the route on Machete describes at least a third of the climbs there, but that's the adventure isn't it?
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2005 - 06:08pm PT
|
Aldude,
no more west side camping :(
Well said about the big wall potential on that side... now you've got me thinking.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2005 - 06:11pm PT
|
Brad,
Oh man! If that's part of the adventure, then why did you object when I said rawl wedge anchors w/o hangers would've been a better choice than five piece with hangers? (That's a FOP site reference.)
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 06:13pm PT
|
Billygoat, I did check out the pin scars under that little roof at the top. They looked too blown out to me to use (must have been Lost Arrows originally, straight into the main rock, as opposed to upward under the roof. The scars are obvious), so I replaced bolts that were well to their right. The bolts I replaced were ancient. I share your love of the High Peaks - some of my best climbing days ever have been spent there. I think the West Side gets a totally unfair rap though. Try other routes on the Balconies for example, and Old Origianl on the Machete (only 5.4, but one of my 5 favorite climbs in the Monument).
|
|
short-rope penis-head
Trad climber
nor cal biiiaaaatch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 06:17pm PT
|
Billygoat,
I already said localism was lame! I was trying to respond to the post someone put up about gilroy/salinas/ ext. in a funny way.
The worst rock i've been on at the pinn's probably was Crackaphobia, or Resurection Regular this spring with the lichen.
Sorry if I pissed of people from Santa Cruz, I didn't mean to.
localism is for undereducated Pacific Grove surfers! And westside SC surfers too, some of those guys are crazy!
Kevin Friedrich
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2005 - 06:26pm PT
|
Kevin, yep. Gotcha. Just missed the sarcism via electronic inhibitors.
Brad, I've done Old Original and I fully agree. Beware of the descent! It's the crux if wet.
|
|
Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 06:35pm PT
|
what's the worst rock you've encountered at the Pinns
I know this wasn't directed at me, and I'm sure I don't have as much back-country pinns choss experience as a lot of you, but I found the route I did to the top of the Hand several years ago to be pretty manky rock all the way around...
|
|
short-rope penis-head
Trad climber
nor cal biiiaaaatch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 06:46pm PT
|
Nice pics!!
I remember when it snowed! That was so sweet!
San Benito! Nice call!
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 06:53pm PT
|
Is there really any bad rock at Pinns? Seriously? Actually, Mynameismud, Munge and I and others have a special sub rating for somes Pinns climbs: ATDS. I "invented" it for a particularly terrible crack pitch (it means Absolute Total Dog S...). Try the first pitch of Stilleto on the Balconies, or Rollerball at the Tourist Trap, or the first pitch of Herschel Berschel on Resurrection. All ATDS. Then there are some of Mud's routes on the Ignorable Cliffs, several are really ATDS (try Trailside Tramp Corner). Or try Axe Pinnacle free! What a great place. Adventure never stops, always something new to look forward to.
|
|
short-rope penis-head
Trad climber
nor cal biiiaaaatch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 06:57pm PT
|
Jody,
Holy sh#t, that was ten years before I was born!
Kevin Friedrich
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 07:06pm PT
|
Excellent pic of the snow, Jody. I remember going in there with Rubine on a day of snow -- it covered the entire valley from the Fire Station as we drove in on 25.
As for replacing 1/4" bolts with other 1/4" bolts, God man, don't you have any sense?? If you want adventure, hook the entire BB line and only clip a bolt when you get scared...
Now don't wake me up with this nonsense again, I need my beauty sleep.
:- k
Ed: Ah yes, Salathe's Hand...I was out there with Brooks and BruceH, replacing old bolts and what-not. There I found 'em, the two pins that were the original anchors at the first belay. I couldn't believe my eyes. I hammered them out, and Bruce goes "Give 'em to me, I'll send them the the Access Fund and they can auction them off for big bucks!" Silly me....I listened. Who knows whatever happened to those.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 07:10pm PT
|
It's the Middle Tower on Old Original. The bald guy is sitting right at the rappel anchors.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 07:27pm PT
|
Kevin I do not think that I know you.
More loose routes
Feeding Frenzy, What if, Pipeloads to Pluto, The Boles route.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 07:35pm PT
|
More controversy. I retro bolted an aid route after freeing it. I added a bolt that would keep people from most likely hitting the ground if they fell in the crux. I'm fairly confident that this part had been aided on the fa and that they would have placed another bolt if they could not have placed a pin. With time the pin placements were mostly gone. I did some funky hooking and bi-caming to aid past on the first go. I then freed it. Is the added bolt bad form? Do you think it should be pulled if so why? fa party is unknown.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 09:01pm PT
|
You know my view, but you're one of my best friends, and that comes first. No added bolts, no excuses. Now be careful, some rumor monger is going to take what you just admitted to, mix it with lots of negativity, accuse you of being an egomaniac, and then it's fact. For the record people, other than this one serious transgression (which I had no part in, so don't start the rumor mill churning again), this guy Mud is tough as hell, bold and has excellent ethics. He also isn't bothered by bad rock, bad pro, brush crashing, or any of the other crap stuff that can be found while exploring the Pinnacles back country. He is however, an inveterate sandbagger, pathalogically incapable of rating a climb anything other than 5.9+ or 5.10d. I once led a climb he had put up and rated 5.10a. (On the Frog.) Solid 10c, scared the sh#t out of me. Luckily Mud followed it. Ten feet from the top here's his comment: "I wish I had some more of that ." I said: "More of what?" His reply: "Whatever the hell I was on when I rated that 10a." True story.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 09:24pm PT
|
In reply to Brad.
Well I am an egomaniac. That is why I put up the route in question. The rest of what you wrote is bunk. I can prove that since I do not rate routes 10d, I prefer 10c. The route in question is not any harder than the 10a that Bird guy put up. The one right next to the trail that people like to flail on.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 10:14pm PT
|
confession time
I used to wear black lycra in the 80s and early 90s.
I got better.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 10:16pm PT
|
Oh, and Mud is afraid of ticks.
Me too. I'm fanatical about checking for them.
I hear there's a natural non toxic oil you can use as a repellant, rather than deet. Anyone know the name of this? It's something other than Eucalyptus.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 10:45pm PT
|
Come on Billygoat, you started this thread, what's your reaction to Mud's transgression? He added a bolt to an existing aid line so he could lead it free.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 10, 2005 - 11:53pm PT
|
"confession time
I used to wear black lycra in the 80s and early 90s.
I got better."
I knew it. Dude yer not right.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 12:29am PT
|
" I retro bolted an aid route after freeing it."
That sounds like a pretty odd style to me...How did you protect it when you first free'd it? Did you free it from the ground up after you aided it or did you TR it and then add the bolt?
What route is that anyway?
:- kelly
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 12:45am PT
|
Way too much stuff to reply to so I am only going to reply to one specific comment made by Billygoat.
There has never been any bolts added to the Shaft. The Shaft was originally an aid climb and the spacing of the bolts reflected this. When I first free-climbed the route in the late 70's you just clipped all the 1/4"'s and hoped for safety in numbers. When we at Friends of Pinnacles (www.pinnacles.org) rebolted the Shaft on a blustery day in January 2003 we did a bolt for bolt replacement except that I did not replace the 2nd to last bolt (1/4" bolted piton) in the aid ladder as a historical momento.
Billygoat, sorry if you think the new bolts look bad. My recommendation to you is that if those bolts look bad, stop climbing at the Pinnacles.
Bruce
ps - the Pinnacles is all about adventure climbing in the far reaches of the Monument. I feel sorry for those who only climb at the most accessible areas in Bear Gulch (Tourist Trap, Discovery Wall, Monolith, etc.). You are truly missing out in the whole Pinnacles experience. Hiking out from the High Peaks with the sun well below the horizon is a magical and special experience. That's what climbing is all about. Heck everybody climbs 5.11/5.12. It's just not that special anymore (or was it ever!?!?)
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 12:49am PT
|
hang him high, real high! like off the balconies, like a goat.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 01:07am PT
|
Alright Bradley!
You want facts, here are some facts:
1. I raise a sh#t storm and the bolt gets removed.
2. K-man is not an aid climber. Sorry, I don't know how I woke you up, but that's f*#ked up if I did (turn your computer off when you go to sleep for christ sakes).
3. Black lycra ain't that bad (look at all the bikers). Tom Davis STILL wears the neon sh#t on occasion!
4. You and I agree a lot more than you might think: no added bolts without the first ascentionist's permission, no excuses. If they're not alive, then you have a responsibility to mimic their style as best as possible. A route, free or aid, is a work of art and should be respected as such. As I recall k-man was unhappy when some convenience anchors got added to one of his routes just last winter. So really, what's with all this beauty sleep nonsense--you care too!
PS--sorry for the lag in reply. Unlike Kelly, I don't spend my life around computers (and that's fact number...)
PPS--I only got snowed on once at the Pinns. Didn't stick for more than 15 minutes. Those were awesome photos.
|
|
F'ueco
Boulder climber
San Jose, CA
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 01:14am PT
|
The other burning question is:
Who the hell bolted all those boulder problems on the west side?
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 01:14am PT
|
Bruce,
You misunderstood my post. I didn't think the bolts looked bad. It was the rock. Like you said, safety in numbers. The reason I thought it was retrobolted was due to the bolt count in the blue Rubine guide. There were far more than his count (including the historical momento--which was totally cool: piton used as bolt hanger!). But, like I said, I wasn't complaining about there being more bolts than the guide said. Safety in numbers counts on rock that fractured. The bolts were bomber, and I was happy to have that in free mode. Killer climb, and killer job up there. I didn't mean to complain about your work at all.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 01:16am PT
|
Which routes are you refering to F'ueco?
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 01:18am PT
|
You know Billygoat, Bruce is exactly right. I climbed the Shaft before and after the rebolting. Why do you make assumptions when you lack knowledge? No-one ever retro bolted the Shaft. Was your post a typo, and did you mean re instead of retro? You used the word "clearly" as if you were sure. Do you realize that when you make such statements it hurts and angers people? Your statement was presented as fact but it isn't true and was really a guess. If you're going to guess, why not guess on the positive side of an issue instead of the negative side (might surprise you how many really good human beings are out there.) To quote the guy who started this thread: "what the f*#k?"
Also, the rock on the Shaft isn't that bad (although this statement is obviously opinion and we could argue all night about that.) And I really, really agree with Bruce about the Pinns back country (although, too I like climbing in Bear Gulch).
Look, I don't mean to lecture (although I clearly am), but give people the benefit of the doubt.
Also, understand that in any bolt replacement there are always value calls (classic example - what to do if the old hole blows out when replacing a bolt? This happens in Pinns rock more often than you'd like. Can't reuse it, gotta go with as close as possible.)
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 01:24am PT
|
Sh*t, everyone's posting at once. Yeah, Billygoat, I think you and I agree about a lot, in fact I can't find any serious differences. Still, I meant what I said about making assumptions. Assume the best, and then if you're proven wrong, crack down like hell on the problem. You made assumptions about me in your first post that aren't true and it didn't leave me feeling really good. That's not a good start. I don't think Bruce was thrilled with your erroneous assumptions about the Shaft, another example.
Good night all, B. Young
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 01:43am PT
|
Well Brad,
Honestly, I'm not sure what to say. Perhaps it was the error of Rubine's guide, and my assumption that it was correct that led me to label it as a retro job. As I recall there were 2-3 unexpected bolts (given the fact that the one was left as a memento).
As for the whole stay positive issue...that's probably outside the scope of this thread, but whatever. We're all ranting here, so I'm not gonna stop before anybody else. But I will say I'm sorry to k-man--I hope yer awake.
I come from one of those "politically correct" feel good and everything will be alright towns, and I think that breeds a sort of tacitly apathetic, hedonistic attitude the world would be better without. Facts are based in perspective, and perspective is always displayed (to some degree) as a matter of opinion. Therefore, from another's perspective assumptions can be more easily identified. That's why I post. To get other's opinions. Often, the best way to get another's opinion is to say things that strike their conscience. Pissing people off is a natural by product, but oh well. Life is tough, and the weak wither.
All the same, I don't mean to hurt anybody directly. I just want to get to the heart of an issue. One of my best teachers taught me that taking offense displays a kind of vulnerability. So instead of taking offense I try to ask myself what ticked me off and respond to the what and not the who. Makes life harder and more rewarding all the same.
Hope that explains where I come from when I catch you off guard.
Good dreams.
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 02:18am PT
|
K-Man
I guess I messed up with the description of how I bolted. I aided to the 3rd bolt. While aiding I did free moves and realized it would go. Once I got up to the bolt I lowered off then proceeded to try and free climb it on lead. The first day I gave up and left. Came back with full rack and still not a single piece of gear that would take body weight. So I put in the bolt then freed the line. Was Crack Climb, is now Better Without Bushes.
|
|
aldude
climber
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 02:20am PT
|
Pinnacles Choss - what can I say - an acquired taste! Funny that you brought up Swanson's Crack ( not my name for it ) since the rock on said second pitch was some of most pathetic I had ever laid eyes on. I climbed up thirty feet to a mossy detached globe that I wouldn't even tie off and contemplated drilling - the moss curtain above dampened my enthusiasm,literally, and I bailed. That was 25 years ago and I've never returned so I guess you could presume it abandoned. BUT YOU NEVER KNOW???
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 02:36am PT
|
"BUT YOU NEVER KNOW???"
Dam near fell out of my chair laughing. Yep a few routes have lain dormant for years, (20), before coming back to life. Sometimes by the original fa team.
|
|
short-rope penis-head
Trad climber
nor cal biiiaaaatch
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 02:52am PT
|
Hah! I love you guys! This thread is totally out of control!
Those bolted "boulder problems" on the westside were established by some dudes from monterey, I wont name names. I think one of them is called rumpelstiltzken or lehprachaun or some sh#t I don't know how to spell.
Does anyone remember the dude(s) who charged the Citadel with powerdrills, scrubed lichen, hacked a trail, and almost got the pinn's shut down to climbing in the 80's ?(this was before I was born I think, i've just heard the stories). Crazy shit!
|
|
short-rope penis-head
Trad climber
nor cal biiiaaaatch
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 02:55am PT
|
Yay! No one retro bolted the shaft before I did it a couple times, or was born! That makes me feel more like a man. hah.
Kevin
|
|
mynameismud
climber
backseat
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 02:58am PT
|
I think they were banned from life and forced to wear pink lycra and do sport climbs in Hell while it froze over.
They kinda screwed up. Bummer (maybe that should read Dummer) for them cuz their routes up there are actually fairly decent. both routes are a minimun one star in quality.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 11:14am PT
|
Okay, I'm reopening the Cuidado part of this thread. After we did it, I downgraded it to 10a/b. Opps. I hadn't climbed at the Pinns for a while, and I forgot that Pinns ratings are sometimes sort of soft (well, wierd at any rate). It's a stiff 10a/b. Bouldery moves up to 10c. Some crucial holds will surely break. Last pitch (really not worth doing), will be 11a/b within a few more ascents (90% of the holds I used were flexing, and my partner broke some big stuff). Also, this pitch is probably 10c/d if yer under 5foot9.
Here's an interesting point about ratings and Pinnacles. How can a route have moves harder than the overall grade? Go climb at the Pinns and you'll know...
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 11:46am PT
|
Billygoat: K-man is not an aid climber....
Hmmm, so you're saying I freed Bridwell Bolts (and a bunch of other aid lines I've climbed)?
Billygoat: I downgraded it [Cuidado] to 10a/b. .... It's a stiff 10a/b. Bouldery moves up to 10c.
In Werner's memorable words:
billygoat = nut case
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 11:51am PT
|
So, Al Dude, what was your name for the crack climb on the Monolith? The in-progress second pitch looks, well like it needs seasoning. Gimme a better name, if you gave it one.
Mud, at first I thought you must have meant that they were banned FOR life (you know, typo and all). Then I started thinking about your approach to such things and realized that you probably meant banned from life after all.
And Billygoat, you finally did identify a difference between us. Very different approach to interacting with people, one that I think will leave you unhappy in the end. In my older age I've really come to believe in the old adage that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar (but then who wants to catch flies anyway). I try really hard to give people the benefit of the doubt. If they prove me wrong I ignore them for life, or crack down hard, as appropriate. I can stir up sh*t as well as or better than most (remember my profession), but I find that building friendship and concensus where possible leads to a lot more happiness. A lot more. And better results too.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 12:13pm PT
|
Kelly,
Good morning. Let's see... In Brad's words (and I'm paraphrasing): Bridwell Bolts is an easy aide line. You coulda at least mentioned the Prow. That's got a bit of spice. Well, more like salt--not really spice, but flavor.
I'd much rather be a nut case that a cased nut. Put that one through your noggin'.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 12:35pm PT
|
Of course we don't count as aid the "couple of times" that Kelly has hung on hooks at Pinns, ass swinging in the breeze, way above his pro, drilling deperately. I bet he's done more hooking than I have, and I've done a lot of walls in the Valley. And Billygoat states what he'd rather be as between two possibilities. There's a third option: what if you're both?
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 12:37pm PT
|
Brad,
Friendship? In what sense. Aristotelian (as in Nicomachean Ethics), or Socratic (as in any one of Plato's dialogues--say Phaedrus, Timaeus, Gorgias, Laches, and really a bunch of others). I (and this is probably obvious) land on the Socratic side of things. So... Happiness is of little consequence in my ethics. Satisfaction weighs much more heavily. The pay off of the big adventure...
Take Cuidado... when I did that route I found myself constantly asking who the hell would give this thing two stars. Then I found my self wondering why Mr. Davis told me it was the best route at Pinnacles. Then I realized I'd been sandbagged. Overall, huge satisfaction at doing the piece of sh#t (cause I was thankful that we had enough sense not to dislodge the stuff that coulda killed us). but I was seriously unhappy about opening the guidebook and seeing two stars. Nevertheless, I maintained a smile for several days henceforth.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2005 - 12:41pm PT
|
Kelly should state for himself, but for as long as I've known him I've never known him to regularly seek out aide climbs. Sh#t, we've all done a few moves of aide, but to be an aide climber I think one has to WANT to go aiding. I'll never deny that k-man is a burly ass climber, but he also tends to lower you as soon as you've hung on the rope.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 12:49pm PT
|
My words about Billy goat was only in reference to a particular subject matter in a different thread not about the Man as a whole, K-man.
Try not to take things out of context.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 03:36pm PT
|
[ed.]
Werner, I wasn't trying to use your quote out of context as much as I was trying to add more context to the claim.
But to be fair, let me frame my remark.
I think it's a bad idea to replace old bolts using old technology. Billygoat's stance that the character of Bridwell Bolts was damaged by replacing old 1/4" bolts with Rawl 3/4" is unwarranted. I'll bet Bridwell trusted his new 1/4" bolts like we trust a new Rawl 5-piece. Also, replacing old with old goes against the rebolting practice of using the old hole whenever possible. So 1) replacing old bolts with obsolete hardware = nutcase, IMO.
Claiming that I am not an aid climber...2) Nutcase. I won't say that I'm a big wall master, but hell, I've done some nailing, hauling, jugging, and wtf, hooking. I've also done the route that's in question here. So I take offense at billygoat's attempt to discredit my opnion on this subject by saying that I am not an aid climber. (I actually thought it was a cool idea to hook the route using the bolts for saftey.)
Lastly, downgrading a climb from .10c to .10a/b, then a sentence later saying that it has .10c moves on it == NUTCASE !!
Or maybe I'm just cranky today.
:- k
PS. Billygoat, what are you trying to say here: "In Brad's words (and I'm paraphrasing): Bridwell Bolts is an easy aide line. You coulda at least mentioned the Prow. ..."
Is there a connection somewhere; I honestly don't get your point.
|
|
pc
Trad climber
Thousand Oaks, CA
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 03:54pm PT
|
FWIW
The Rubine Guide has an excellent section on bolts. I'm not sure if it's still "current", I haven't read it nor placed a bolt in quite a while, but I remember it being a great read. Written by Tom Davis I think.
At the time it scared me away from using any of the bolts at Castle Rock except for the main one on top of the Castle.
pc
|
|
aldude
climber
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 04:40pm PT
|
"Swanson's Crack is located on the Machete near the Direct. Originally ,in my youthful zeal,Ienvisioned it as a Comician Super Direct - DREAMIN.The first pitch was a groady fist crack that we protected with hexes - no cams yet. The ethic of the day was no aid on the FA of a free climb so hooks and tieoffs were Verboten - stance or retreat. It would probably be 3 or 4 long pitches at a high standard today.
On another note, Pete Ferguson and I freed the Shaft in 1978. Don't have Rubine's book - was it a FFA?
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 04:57pm PT
|
The ethic of the day was no aid on the FA of a free climb so hooks and tieoffs were Verboten - stance or retreat.
Long live tradition!!
What are the hardest routes bolted in stance at:
1) Pinnacles
2) Yosemite
3) Josh
4) World
I think I know a couple...
:- k
|
|
aldude
climber
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 06:21pm PT
|
Schneider and I stance bolted a route at Medlicott called =Schneiderator 12c. Needless to say he lead it but I drew one of the harder stances. It was so steep and tippy that I couldn't look up and used the side of my hammer to reduce leverage. Bachar did the second ascent the next day but not before a 25 footer on his first attempt - guess the grade was solid! Body and Soul may also be a contender.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 09:29pm PT
|
Nice Al, I think it tops out at .11c for stance-bolted at the Pinns.
|
|
Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
|
|
|
Nov 11, 2005 - 09:42pm PT
|
Heh. I still have the old pin from Swanson's Crack. I got up to the pin, put a cam above it. Yelled for my partner to throw me a rock. One swing knocked the thing clean. And to think someone lowered off it (hence the sling)...
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2005 - 01:32am PT
|
Al,
I led the Shaft free a year earlier, in 1977, and it probably wasn't the FFA, either.
Bruce
ps - there is a picture of me leading the Shaft in 1991 in the current Rubine guide. What a great climb!
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2005 - 03:26am PT
|
Rubine's guide is unaware of the FFA on the Shaft. I propose Barry Bates. If anybody knows where he is, maybe he wouldn't even care if he did it first. All the same, wouldn't surprise me if he did it.
K-man--you've climbed the Prow, right? Seems to me that's more of an aid climber accomplishment than Bridwell Bolts. So if you were trying to assert yourself as an aide climber, I would've expected you to mention the Prow. But then again, you know your mind better than anyone. But, now that you've posted all in favor of "drill from stance or retreat"... well, that seems to show your true colors better than anything I could say.
As for my personal ethics regarding climbing: aid should be established with a bare minimum of fixed protection, and should be left that way. Free climbing should be established with priority given to the moves, not the gear. Thus, keep the moves safe and you've got a great line that may or may not be worth repeating. At least the masses will be able to make that decision. With regards to freeing an aid line: good luck. Don't diss the FA just 'cause you don't have the balls to go up without a bolt. Better get some permission, because chances are there's somebody who'll free it w/o fixed gear and they deserve the FFA more than you.
Dudes, if you wanna go do some hard aid, I'm down. If you wanna go do some free climbing, I might be down. If you wanna talk about who did what first and who's a stronger climber...well go right ahead and stoke yourselves and your big fat cocks. I'd rather be climbing something interesting. Yeah?
Okay, I'm drunk on Pisco, and I'm going to bed. Hope my nightly rant makes some sort of sense to someone.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2005 - 05:42am PT
|
Pisco will do the trick -- here's proof positive!
(thanks for clarifying that Prow thing...although I was more proud of doing Bridwell Bolts than I was the Prow, it was A3 for sure)
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2005 - 10:48am PT
|
Kelly,
Bridwell bolts was A3???? I downgraded it to A1 after the new bolts. Originally it was A2. F*#k, times have changed. I say, in honor of the Bird, it becomes A3 again.
PS--does anybody know where I can find some Pisco in this country (other than on K-man's land:)
|
|
Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
|
|
Nov 12, 2005 - 03:10pm PT
|
Jaysus I haven't climbed in the Pinns since 1974. I take it that the rock is still glued together.
Again, great photos Jody.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Nov 13, 2005 - 04:45pm PT
|
Billygoat, I said Bridwell Bolts was "A3" because of the shape of bolts when I did it. When they were new, I'll bet the bolts were A1 with the "few" piton placements giving the route its A2 rating. Replacing the old mank brought the route back to the condition it was in when Bridwell first put it up.
Also, I don't believe the original route had hook moves on it. Rather it seems that bolts were added to replace the blown out pin placements. Check out the old route descriptions:
Roper's 1966 guide: "This route lies on the overhanging face just right of the SW corner. Many bolts and a few pitons are used."
Richards' 1974 guide: "From the corner, make a few 5th class moves and begin aiding (all bolts) a long, indirect path up the S wall. Originally this climb contained a few piton placements...before the cracks gave out."
I'm pretty sure the hook moves described in Rubine's book came from the info I gave him after I did the route.
To return the route to it's original condition, the bolts next to the old pin placements should be removed (if you could see where they went).
:- k
PS. I still think that if you want adventure, you should hook the entire route.
|
|
billygoat
climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 14, 2005 - 02:22am PT
|
Thanks Kelly.
Yes, you can see where the pinns were at. Well, it's possible to imagine. So perhaps you're right. Wish we had Bridwell on here. I hear he has an incredible memory for this sort of thing.
PS--yes, your idea of adventure is quite thrilling.
PPS--Beautiful day at Pinns today, what the hell were you doing on the internet mid-afternoon? Well, you certainly avoided the masses.
|
|
mtnyoung
Trad climber
Sonora, California
|
|
|
Nov 14, 2005 - 10:29am PT
|
Billygoat, you say Bridwell has a good memory for these types of things? How would you know? I asked him about Premeditated about 4 years ago. I hadn't done it by that point. He was friendly, animated, and into talking about past climbs, but didn't even remember the route. Still didn't after I told him where it was and when he did it. I hate to burst your bubble, but, as far as I can tell Jim Bridwell is just a person, subject to all the normal flaws, including a memory that may not remember a "quickie route" from 40 years ago. And what's this about "the masses" at Pinnacles. Go explore, man. You can avoid the masses on the most crowded days simply by going elsewhere. And the pin scars are quite visible, under the roof. And, IMO quiet blown out and unusable. Hey, but go try them, just to see, maybe I'm wrong. However, you're not allowed to clip any of the replacement bolts first!
|
|
LongAgo
Trad climber
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2007 - 02:14pm PT
|
For lovers of Pinns and history, there are some pics (one pretty good one on Shake and Bake)and tales of climbs from various publications (Ascent, AAC Journal) at www.tomhiggins.net.
Good climbing!
Long Ago
Tom Higgins
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2007 - 04:45pm PT
|
thx tom!!
I'll cross post at mudandcrud if you haven't already...
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
|
|
Tom,
Dig the writing immensely on Pinns (finally got a chance to go back and read more...)
"...emotions whipsawed, feeling like approaching a harlot, lust and angst drawing you along..."
|
|
| Messages 1 - 93 of total 93 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!