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Andrew F
Trad climber
Sunnyvale, CA
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I followed the thread on rc.com when it was around, and was never fully satisfied with the response from Metolius. I agree that Aric's testing was flawed. But you can easily demonstrate problem using one of Metolius's own hangboards: place an orange Master Cam horizontally in the biggest edge hold of a Simulator. This is a pretty good placement as the lobes are contracted almost all the way (green dots on the rangefinder) and the edge is realistic of a normal horizontal placement. You can easily make the inner lobes retract by just bending the stem down. The cam will then pull out until the trigger mechanism shifts and unloads the kevlar wires.
If you repeat the same test, but first push the trigger mechanism back up the stem so that the kevlar wires are artificially forced to be slack (removing any pulling effect from the trigger), you can't reproduce the same effect.
It's pretty obvious if you look at the trigger mechanism for a few moments how the trigger could be pulled in a real placement this way. This doesn't happen with Camalots etc because the trigger mechanism has much more freedom to move whereas on the master cams it's forced to bend with the stem.
I love mine but try to avoid using them in horizontal placements for this exact reason.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Naw, don't worry about it MisterE, the internet is too wild and wooly to be tamed and understood!
All in all, I'm thankful for the whole post, I learned something about my gear and can be more thoughtful about placing it next time.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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I love mine but try to avoid using them in horizontal placements for this exact reason.
I thoughts that's why you ALWAYS carry some tri-cams. That's why I do. Awesome in hozirontals. I'll place a cam, but only if my tri-cams don't fit.
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Rankin
climber
North Carolina
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Master Cams are bomber. I have placed them in plenty of different placements and have had no issues whatsoever. Glad people test this stuff, because I just climb with it.
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blr
climber
socal
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A little off topic, but one thing that I think the master cams have done better than the aliens is the trigger wire. Specifically the flexibility of the trigger wire.
If you retract a master cam, pinch a pair of cam lobes with your finger and let the other two go, you'll see that they are free to expand it's entire range. The stiffness/stickiness of the alien's trigger wires only let the other lobes expand a fraction of it's range. I think this could actually make the regular master cams better for flaring placements than the regular aliens. Still like my aliens though.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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E -I tried to duplicate that issue, but was unable to do so. I'm not saying someone couldn't get it to occur, but it ain't me.
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Love mine and thanks for the dialog
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tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
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If you use these cams, you could die.
Think about it.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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A similar thing results with almost every camming unit if knott placed properly... The inside lobes get torked up and your left with what ever nature or your destiny gives you on the remaining 2 outside readjusted lobes. that's life in the fast lane....I still place most of my cams like Knutts and my followers hate me ( long reach and you have to pay attention or you will knott be able to get it out). I see so many climbers rely on the camming advantage that it makes me up set.
Sometimes if that's all you got, it's better then a talk with your almighty....but to place cams inconsiderately and hope they will hold every-time is beyond wreck-less "Folly". I'm still an Alien fan but I do carry Metolius "Small" units as work horses on every pitch.
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monkeyboyrob
climber
military industrial complex, virginia
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Aug 12, 2011 - 12:49am PT
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i know this is a year old thread, but...
i just popped one of the rc.com links, and holy shiznit! that's beating it into the dirt!
ackk!
well, at least it was thirty two pages of quotes and speculation to one page of bickering.
now that i have also not contributed anything, i am prepared to return to that thread...
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Scole
Trad climber
San Diego
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Remember when sex was safe, and climbing was dangerous? Climbing is still dangerous. Place the gear correctly, within it's limitations, and climb within your limitations and it might be OK: Then again; it might not.
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