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okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
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Mar 28, 2010 - 11:28pm PT
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Yeah, that "Tarzan" approach to the Sentinel...as previously mentioned. My partner slipped on that and skidded down to another little ledge, just before oblivion...
Glad that someone mentioned Jimmy Ray Forester. I never met him but an old friend from Oklahoma was his climbing partner and was deeply hurt by his loss.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 29, 2010 - 04:51am PT
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TripL7,
Thanks for the details on Jim Adair's accident. I edited my post to reclassify his death as not free soloing, since he was not on a mandatory 5th class section. But it sounds like he may have chosen a 5th class variation on the approach.
It's tough to lose such a young and very talented climber (and son to his parents).
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 29, 2010 - 07:45am PT
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I find it interesting that the same folks who celibrate the poorly bolted death rout and proclaim it shall never be fixed often condem the free soloist......
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Chief
climber
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Mar 29, 2010 - 10:02am PT
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Really?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 29, 2010 - 10:16am PT
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Yes, really.
It is not uncommon for folks to post that free soloing is A dick move,puts my party at risk of haveing to do a rescue/body recovery etc, bla, bla, bla.
Then the should the x rated relics/botch job museam pieces be fixed thread pops up and everyone jumps on the bandwagon for what a great tribute they are to history and save em for someone with more balls than me side of the argument.
I find that quite interesting as I feel that scary leads are way more dangerous than easy solos. YMMV
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Mar 29, 2010 - 10:32am PT
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So much is dependent on one's personal reference points. It's so hard for most to understand JB's reference points in regards to the level of risk in free soloing. As many have noted here, we all engage in unroped scrambling before, after and sometimes during climbs, and many traditional climbs have unprotected runouts that are long enough to put the leader in the mega-hurt zone if they get sloppy. It IS the essence of climbing, to deal with apparent risk, calculate it; accept it or not; and proceed accordingly.
As one who spent a lifetime in the mountains, confronting and weighing the added complications of the alpine realm and having very few close encounters, I can say that free soloing is just another very valid expression of a climber's passion. For every soloist who has died, I'll point to ten climbers who died roped up and belaying in the textbook definition of safe climbing.
Climbing, as we know it on Supertopo, is inherently unsafe, and the degree to which it is unsafe has little to do with the degree of difficulty or the outwardly percieved level of risk in a given climbing situation. Mostly level of risk is related to the individual climber's level of experience and attention to the moment and acceptance of his or her own responsibility for the outcome of the choices he or she makes.
JelloOnASunnyAfternoonAtTheFootOfTheEiger
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 29, 2010 - 10:41am PT
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Jello, Did you ever have a chance to clib at lake Willoughby VT? Nick
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Fogarty
climber
BITD
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Mar 29, 2010 - 10:53am PT
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Troy Johnson Solo fall?
Bill Russell is a life saver and a friend you want in need!
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:03am PT
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I never did get around to climbing at Willoughby, Nick. Whenever I was back east I was doing a seminar in Conway or the Adirondacks, and scarcely had any extra time for climbing before or after the clinics.
-JelloWishesHeKnewWilloughby
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jstan
climber
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:08am PT
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----------
I find it interesting that the same folks who celibrate the poorly bolted death rout and proclaim it shall never be fixed often condem the free soloist......
Mar 29, 2010 - 07:16am PT
Yes, really.
It is not uncommon for folks to post that free soloing is A dick move,puts my party at risk of haveing to do a rescue/body recovery etc, bla, bla, bla.
Then the should the x rated relics/botch job museam pieces be fixed thread pops up and everyone jumps on the bandwagon for what a great tribute they are to history and save em for someone with more balls than me side of the argument.
-------------
Superficially, I might seem to fall into this category. But not really.
1. The rock, as a natural creation, is really the only thing that merits celebration. It should be left as it is.
2. I tend to “celebrate” the things people don’t do. Withstanding the temptation of the moment is sometimes the harder and more thoughtful thing to do.
3. Visibly celebrating a free solo is poor, IMO. The act itself is entirely personal and it should stay entirely personal. Nothing but bad comes of participation by bystanders.
If someone does something that pleases them, I am happy they are happy. That’s about it.
Over the many decades a number of people I have known have died. You know what? It really would have been much better had they stayed around. Interesting youngsters with a lot of energy. A real loss. Every last one.
Edit for post down lower.
The fact a human response crops up frequently does not mean it has deep content.
You see someone driving a car while drinking a beer, you know a beer bottle will sooner or later come flying out. Given a particular situation, what people will say or do may be more a matter of the situation than of the person's world view. Even people who don't litter will throw a beer bottle out of a car window.
To get deeper meanings, you have sometimes to dig deeper. An offhand comment about soloists does not tell one much about how a person views climbing.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:10am PT
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Tradman,
The soloing is a dick move topic was more about soloing past a roped party.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:22am PT
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I understand that but those same comments pop up most every time the subject of soling comes up.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:33am PT
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I can think of 3 more unmentioned grave injuries, and 2 deaths (woman at temple crag and another woman at Indian Creek).
The consequences of error are severe, and I do think that most hedge their bets with a good skill cushion and by selecting routes where the climbing allows for some back up attachment.
I like the idea of a soloing m&m list b/c I too was often told only the extreme pov's when I started climbing....that soloing was either sure death or that the only person ever to legitimately die that way got stuck in the rain. Neither is really true.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:52am PT
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I'll repeat here my point 3 from just above.
3. Visibly celebrating a free solo is poor, IMO. The act itself is entirely personal and it should stay entirely personal. Nothing but bad comes of participation by bystanders.
There. Now it is all in one place.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Mar 29, 2010 - 11:58am PT
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Maybe Ice climbers look at soloing differently than puer rock climbers?
While soloing can be that intensly personal experience that you guys are allways preaching about but more often than not for many of us here in the northeast its just annother day out on the ice getting a bit of fresh air and a workout running laps on easy stuff.
Same thing with my rock circuit. It can be a like Tai Chi in a meditative way but its certainly not death defying.. Just working out running laps on 5.5 to 5.7. nothing to see here folks.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Boulder Creek CA
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Mar 29, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
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Does anyone remember the details on John Hudson? I think he fell solo in the Canadian Rockies. He and I did the Grand Teton one time at night and back unroped in 13 hours from the CCC camp, arriving on the summit right at sunrise. He was a fine and talented climber, but I was uncomfortable with some of the risks he was running.
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originalpmac
Mountain climber
Anywhere I like
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Mar 29, 2010 - 01:15pm PT
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dude fell off the last traverse pitch on RA? Scary. I soloed that last fall, ad had a great time, but we got really baked on the ledge a little bit before the last pitch. Definitely got my attention. I remember reaching for the anchor with my daisy and clipping it, all stoked as can be. One of the best times of my life.
Soloing ice is different and I consider it par for the course. Gives you a good lead head. And cranking Metallica and Megadeath and RJD2 or whatever comes on shuffle is the greatest! I just use one earphone, cause like Blanchard said, you got to hear the placement.
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Rudyj2
Trad climber
UT
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Mar 29, 2010 - 01:40pm PT
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Tami wrote,
"Nicky Code ( spelling? ) ; a fine young Canadian and a woman who had just received or was working towards her guiding ticket. She died soloing that easiest route on Castle Rock at Leavenworth. I'd say about 25 years ago."
Nicky was my rock climbing instructor on that day at Castle Rock. She was overseeing two different roped teams of students who where doing their own leading. So, she was free soloing, but also traversing between the two routes occupied by her students. It was presumed that she fell while on one of these traverses on less traveled ground. She also fell over backwards and landed on the back of her head and neck, a position that led us to beleive she had broken a handhold. It was not quite 25 years ago, but happened in October of '91.
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Boulder Creek CA
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Mar 29, 2010 - 01:44pm PT
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Solo climbing
Life is all about risk management. There are lots of ways to manage risk. First on the list is situational awareness. Solo climbing is a type of situation where people tend to pay more attention to evaluating risk levels; say, in contrast to the attitude of many people towards driving on the freeway.
As part of my professional life, I help design risk management systems for human space flight launch vehicles. I just last week submitted a draft 60-page health and safety plan for one. It's all about identifying the risks along with their likelihood and consequence. Then you have to evaluate available risk mitigation strategies against cost and benefit.
I learned a lot from Walter Bonnati's method of spending a lot of time imagining everything that could go wrong on a big solo wall, and then imagining what you could do about it to survive.
The use of equipment and partners is just a part of risk management methodology. You can't just assume that any particular technical arrangement makes situations safe. The unknown is often the largest source of risk, as are emergent effects from unexpected relationships between people, equipment and events. There are also factors regarding how brittle and vulnerable nominal conditions are for collapse into catastrophic failure modes. Friends and equipment are part of the situation. Sometimes in alpine conditions it is safer not to have equipment and partners as part of the equation. You are less likely to knock rocks and ice onto your own head. Speed is sometimes the major safety factor and free solo is fast if you maintain an appropriate balance of technical competence and self confidence. Safety equipment is only as good as it doesn't in itself add unacceptable risk.
There are multiple meters running in our heads: one for difficulty and one for danger and ones for physical and emotional condition. It is wise to be aware and to not get them confused with each other. A very difficult climb can be quite safe, and an easy climb can be quite dangerous. The basic source of safety is maintaining good situational awareness guiding our judgment.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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Mar 29, 2010 - 03:23pm PT
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I am surprised and touched that folks would remember Jim Adair. His family was/is amazingly gracious. The memorial funds from Jim was eventually given to the Ragged Mountain Foundation for stewardship at Ragged Mountain in CT about 25 years later.
I wish it were only the climber and their family affected by soloing. Accidents and fatalities can lead to increased regulations and closures. So you aren't taking a risk that only affects you and your family. Try explaining to a homeowner that the dead body pulled out of his backyard won't create a legal problem for him and won't affect his kids. Try explaining to the Parks Dept. that no climber has sued when someone else has fallen. They aren't in the mood to hear.
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