Free Soloing Deaths

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Eric Beck

Sport climber

Bishop, California

Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 28, 2010 - 01:09am PT

This is inspired by the excellent thread on Alex Honnold. While people have died free soloing, it has not been common. For me, John Bachar comes to mind as well as a person on the Steck Salathe whose name I can't remember right now. Who can add to this list?

David Knopp

Trad climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:12am PT

derek hersey

WBraun

climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:12am PT

I don't remember any story about John Bachar dying free soloing.

I thought he slipped and fell on the descent after doing the climb.

David Knopp

Trad climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:13am PT

renato casarotto-in a crevasse fall, on his way back from the most difficult denali route of his time.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:45am PT

It was K2, not Denali, walking back to camp after an attempt on the Magic Line. Slipped hopping a crevasse. Be careful out there...

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Mar 28, 2010 - 02:38am PT

from Death in Yosemite:
(I tried to count people climbing unroped on 5th class ground, not less difficult approaches, descents, etc.):

1978 - Jim Adair - fell while climbing unroped on the approach (this has 5th class sections) to Chouinard-Herbert. I heard he may have tripped on an extra-long rope coil, but I could be wrong. Not exactly a normal free soloing fall.
[Edit:] See TripL7's post later in this thread. I had the details wrong - Jim Adair was on the 3rd/4th class lower ramp part of the approach which is common to both Chouinard-Herbert and Steck-Salathe'. This is not 5th class if you are on route, so it does not count as free soloing by the defnition above. It's on the less difficult approach (but still potentially deadly).

1979 - Jeff Drinkard - soloed across the final traverse pitch on Royal Arches, slipped and went over the edge. He and his partner had climbed the rest of the route roped.

1981 - Vik Hendrickson - Uncle Fanny.

1985 - Robert Steele - Royal Arches.

1993 - Derek Hersey - Steck-Salathe'.

StahlBro

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Mar 28, 2010 - 02:51am PT

I wouldn't tell anyone what to do, but I used to run laps on various routes in JT. One day I was doing the Right Ski Track, and was past the crux on the the little dihedral above. A crystal broke on a smear, and I barn-doored for a second. Longest second of my life. Finished it up, but never thought about 3rd classing the same again afterward.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

climber

. . . not !

Mar 28, 2010 - 03:13am PT

Walter A. Starr Jr. on Michael Minaret (1933) .

Patrick Sawyer

climber

Originally California now Ireland

Mar 28, 2010 - 03:29am PT

Who knows how people die. A slip when making a move, a slip on icy/dicey ground, making a descent, making an ascent, an act of Gawd, an act of Karma, in their sleep (that's as good of way as any), a serious error or miscalculation, a morning dove shitting on a climber just when a serious move is being completed (yeck), a strong wind blowing across a cornice...

let me count the ways

Seriously, none of them are ideal.

For example...

"Evidence of the massacre of at least 321 people in Democratic Republic of Congo has been uncovered by the BBC."

We choose to climb... most of us understand and face the consequences of f*cking up, but some humans do not have that choice.

I suppose my point is that...

...I am not sure, but I count myself lucky.

BTW, I do not mean any disrespect to any person, alive or no longer with us.

Chief

climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 10:55am PT

Paul Preuss comes to mind as an early practitioner and example.
Jimmy Jewel's another one.

There's no better feeling than moving over the stone unfettered and free.
I did lots of mellow third classing and was taught that a certain amount was de rigeur for the committed rock climber and alpinist, you know, the mind control excecise etc.
Kor said, "If Buhl thought that, so did we".
Bachar, Breashears, Fowler and others set the example.

One day while doing laps up and down one of my 10a favourites, my left foot greased off the same spot I'd confidently glued it a thousand times before. The other foot came off and I swung on my good hand holds, reset my feet, climbed down and pretty much quit third classing.

I still haven't seen a climb worth a friend's life.
Have fun, be careful.

Perry

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:07am PT

Diana Hunter,
In Rocky Mountain National Park, somebody correct me here: maybe Cathedral Wall, after unroping on top of the main climb, fell while climbing on third class terrain near the finish.

Ed Webster’s girlfriend, Lauren Husted, similar scenario, unroped after the main event on a climb in the Black Canyon.

We’ve had some good discussions about free soloing in the past here on the forum.
Might be instructive to take a look at them; one in particular simply celebrated the activity.

Lately the complexion of the forum has changed a little bit perhaps, including quite a bit more support for the position that free soloing is simply reckless and should be avoided; and furthermore that it is irresponsible to support it, and at the far outside that it is negligent even to talk about it.

That’s quite an arc!

My feeling has been that, concerning traditional climbing, a bit of free soloing on moderate terrain, developed to a level of fundamental competence, is arguably an asset in terms of experience to the degree that it helps a climber cope with mandatory unprotected sections while on lead, to prepare a climber to deal with 3rd class terrain in the mountains and generally helps square the head up.

Dedicated free soloing near one’s technical limit, as a primary modality, I would submit, is another thing altogether, though not completely (because the potential outcome is the same as in moderate third class), it is different purely because the repeated exposure to the inherent risks is ratcheted so much higher and the edge is so much finer.

Traditional climbing and mountaineering are inherently dangerous.
Perhaps the fine point between the two however, is that in big mountains, whether engaged by siege or by fast and light Alpine style, objective dangers can only be diminished so much.

In contrast, the free soloist on pure rock is choosing to eschew a rope and partner, not as a necessity but as a way of upping the ante; many people here see this as an elective and therefore regard it as an unwarranted choice. That’s the difference I would draw between mountaineering and free soloing on rock.

Again, one could argue that free soloing on clean rock, at a high-level, is an independent category of activity altogether.

Ultimately that’s a personal choice, to engage any of those unroped modalities.

These are all personal choices, but as climbing becomes increasingly more visible in the public eye, these questions are getting more attention and the question of social responsibility is growing.

Increasingly, we are a risk-averse society.
Balancing personal risk with the responsibility we bare to others is a tension point to be sure.

This might seem crass, but concerning John Bachar, who expressed his art form at the cutting edge for nearly 35 years before paying the ultimate price: I’d say he played the odds pretty well, that’s a huge number of unroped hours on the rock.

As a culture, it seems we sometimes lose sight of the fact that all roads lead to death.
We try to live long lives, we try to live full lives.
We do the best we can.

-Roy

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:09am PT

Ricky: Goukas fell on lead.

Fat Dad

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:16am PT

Rachel Farmer, if I recall correctly, slipped on some 5.3 while unroped.

pud

climber

Sportbikeville

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:21am PT

"Who can add to this list?"

This "list" has no value.

gunsmoke

Trad climber

Clackamas, Oregon

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:46am PT

Clint, what are details on 1981 - Vik Hendrickson - Uncle Fanny; 1985 - Robert Steele - Royal Arches? I always thought the Hersey accident was the first true free solo accident in Yosemite.

StahlBro

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:48am PT

I still 3rd class every once in a while, but easy stuff I've done for years. There is still something very liberating about it. I have kids that need me now, and for me it seems more selfish than it used to be when it was just me and my thoughts. Everyone has to make their own decisions. Just know that a minute of inattention or bad luck changes everything, so be prepared.

Gilroy

Social climber

Boulderado

Mar 28, 2010 - 12:08pm PT

'generally helps square the head up'

most worthy comment in this death roll +1 for the man in the straw hat

Gilwad

climber

Frozen In Somewhere

Mar 28, 2010 - 12:53pm PT

"I specifically repeated death routes to get on the cover of R&I a few years ago, BASE jumping the whole time and having INSANE group sex! That just scratches the surface."

Hank, that line wins. Hope you're staying with the good parts of it all.

Hawkeye

climber

State of Mine

Mar 28, 2010 - 12:54pm PT

so hank, you actually had getting on the cover as a goal? good honesty, lame thing to be motivated by. group sex will only be believed by pics...

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:33pm PT

gunsmoke,

> what are details on 1981 - Vik Hendrickson - Uncle Fanny; 1985 - Robert Steele - Royal Arches? I always thought the Hersey accident was the first true free solo accident in Yosemite.

July 10, 1981 - Vik Hendrickson (age 16, born in Yosemite), soloed up Uncle Fanny, which is a technical 5.7. It has a tricky squeeze chimney with deep handjams, and finishes up a rounded crack which is often dirty due to leaves from the trees above. "He got stuck in a place beyind his abilities, lost his holds, and sustained a 100-foot fall." [Death in Yosemite p.362]

May 16, 1984 - Robert Steele (age 24), Royal Arches (text does not say exactly where). "had been free-soloing and lost his holds unwitnessed. He fell 200 feet." [Death in Yosemite p.363]

Scared Silly

Trad climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:54pm PT

I am surprised no one has mentioned Tobin Sorenson yet ...

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber

Sprocketville

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:57pm PT

we find skeletons all the time in the bottom of devils canyon.

LSD climbers. they would test the acid by taking a hit and then climbing at night.

you could here the midnight screams for miles.

no wait...that was the Free Love Draft Dodgers organization, hamming it up.

i made a hash pipe out of patty hearst's femur.

crunch

Social climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:58pm PT

"As a culture, it seems we sometimes lose sight of the fact that all roads lead to death.
We try to live long lives, we try to live full lives.
We do the best we can."

Elegantly put Roy.
ps, it's Guokas, not Goukas.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Mar 28, 2010 - 01:59pm PT

Free soloing has several quite different meanings to climbers, but not to the public. We all free solo at times, that is to say climb unroped on relatively moderate terrain. Particularly at the start and finish of climbs, and on descents, and in the mountains. Class 3 to perhaps mid class 5, or a bit harder. We all do it - those who say they never free solo are being economical with the truth. The climbing may not be difficult, but is often a bit loose or wet, and exposed. A fall on such ground is usually just as fatal as a fall from 200 m up an unroped 5.11, which is another kind of free soloing, where difficulty and commitment are added to the mix.

Many climbing deaths occur during the first type of free soloing - just read accidents in North American mountaineering. "Scrambling" deaths. Relatively few (in absolute terms) occur on the difficult climbs. But then probably thousands of metres of 5.2 are soloed for every hundred metres of 5.10.

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber

Sprocketville

Mar 28, 2010 - 02:01pm PT

anybody who has ever ridden an escaltor at the Big E has done a fee solo.

we used to slide down the banisters and launch into the perfume dept.

Bullwinkle

Boulder climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 02:03pm PT

Tobin was not free-soloing, he was roped soloing. . .

edit; what Pud said

Chief

climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 02:49pm PT

Well said Roy and some great perspectives from others.
It seems hard to find examples of people falling while intentionally soloing difficult climbs. Most of the time good climbers have perished after taking the rope off or while moving on casual ground. Diana Hunter and others come to mind.

I wouldn't for a moment diminish or call into question someone's sincere desire to climb unroped. Peter, John and others made it look perfectly natural. As Peter said,(I might be paraphrasing here) "If you find yourself flapping through space after falling off and you did it so people would notice, you've made yourself the victim of a cruel joke".

Have fun, be careful but remember, this ain't no dress rehearsal.

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Latitute 33

Mar 28, 2010 - 03:03pm PT

Thanks Roy for your well thought out and eloquent words.

And, yes -- as Mighty Hiker observed, even the most cautious climber will free solo as part of the climbing experience.

Life is a free solo, we often delude ourselves in thinking otherwise.

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Mar 28, 2010 - 05:04pm PT

Life is a free solo, we often delude ourselves in thinking otherwise.

Good one!

Karen

Trad climber

So Cal urban sprawl Hell

Mar 28, 2010 - 05:14pm PT

A very dear friend of mine and very experienced climber always told me to watch out while in third class territory, seems that can often be where trouble goes down. He'd say "third class kills"

spacemonkey77

Trad climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 05:43pm PT

Jimmy Ray Forester

November 2006 in El Potrero Chico Mexico

He was an amazing climber who was passionate about the sport and all that it involved. He is sorely missed!

http://friendsofforester.com/

Chief

climber

Mar 28, 2010 - 05:43pm PT

Words of caution to most climbers, myself included; "Be careful, it's real flat here."

illusiondweller

Trad climber

San Diego, CA

Mar 28, 2010 - 06:45pm PT

On the suicide note, for what it's worth, for it's worth EVERYTHING in my book:

"...and the Truth shall make you free." - from John 8:31-32

Now the big question, "What is the Truth?"

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." - John 14:6

Now, that's quite a statement for someone to put their reputation on wouldn't you think!

You have a secret, a stronghold, a problem with a stigma associated with it like I do and you're looking for help, a way out, the truth behind it, the answer to life? Well, there's your answer, there's my answer!

http://www.reformu.com/

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Mar 28, 2010 - 06:59pm PT

Thanks to Tarbuster for an excellent post above, thinking through how all soloing is not the same and all risks are not equal.

In this and Ed Drummond's thread and others, we often hear from climbers whose perspective has mellowed with age, so certain risks no longer look well justified. I don't think I've written that myself, but I certainly could.

There's another new perspective life brings around too, that doesn't get as much play on these threads. Every falling climber had a family.

paul roehl

Boulder climber

california

Mar 28, 2010 - 07:17pm PT

"And is the world of man not more predacious yet? The way of the world is to bloom and to flower

and die but in the affairs of men there is no waning and the noon of his expression signals the

onset of night. His spirit is exhausted at the peak of its achievement. His meridian is at once his

darkening and the evening of his day. He loves games? Let him play for stakes."

TripL7

Trad climber

san diego

Mar 28, 2010 - 08:19pm PT

Clint & Rokjox!

For reasons unknown, Jim Adair(age 19)chose to traverse out to the right edge/lip of the ramp(with huge exposure to the Valley floor)and boulder a few moves upwards rather than stick to the more secure corner(left side)of the ramp. There was mention of a loose handhold breaking according to his partner.

This happened on the well traveled approach ramp to the S/S & C/H routes on Sentinel Rock. It came as a chilling/sobering reminder(coming just a few months after loosing Bobo)of the uncertainty of our provocation to climb, and the brevity of life in general.

Sadly, he was featured on the cover of Climbing Mag. that same month(April/May/June? 1978), on the FA of a 5.11 trad route he named "A Dare by the Sea" on the East Coast of Maine.

EDIT: The magazine came out a few day's after his "accident". Like I said, a chilling reminder of the brevity of life. Climbing rags were anxiously awaited and read over and over again...bitd.

adventurous one

Trad climber

Truckee Ca.

Mar 28, 2010 - 09:49pm PT

Vic Hendrickson

That's a name I have not thought about in over 25 years. I went to high school with him. Didn't know him real well but had a few classes with him and remember him as being quite and a good skier. In 1981 I had only known two people who had ever died, both quite old. He was the first person I knew to die who was not old. Still remember it having a profound effect on my young realization that death can come at any time. It was a sobering time for us to reflect on our own mortality, many for the first time. In my early climbing years I would think about him whenever I considered soloing up something. May have even deterred me from doing something stupid in my reckless youth.

If I recall correctly his dad was a doctor at the Yosemite clinic.

mountain dog

Trad climber

over the hills and far away

Mar 28, 2010 - 09:49pm PT

A very morbid thread. I am reluctant to post but I will. I remember hearing about a young woman falling and dying while soloing Incredible Hand Crack in Indian Creek. She was trailing a rope to set up a t.r. for her friends but placing no protection. I think in '01 or '02.

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:12pm PT

The great Montana climber Dwight Bishop. Fell linking up the free solo of the major Tetons in a push. In fact it was his second time doing it, but he wanted to see if it could be done in the winter and was just re-familiarizing himself with it again in planing and preparation for doing the first Winter Free solo of all of them, which had never been done. Although he had soloed the North Face of the Eiger and Free soloed 5.13, he was found at the base of a 5.8 route.

I figure -Tetons......hmmm, a rock probably took him out, he was too good to slip on a 5.8. Good guy, I love what his buddies did. They donated all his gear to SAR and then finished the guidebook using his notes, and gave him the credit as author. Some of those Montana and Wyoming dudes....amazing. And so quiet about it too.

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber

Sprocketville

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:15pm PT

if nobody is there to help you, then you can get stuck.

this is a panic situation that has to be controlled.

so route choice is way important. unless you like panic attacks.

okie

Trad climber

San Leandro, Ca

Mar 28, 2010 - 11:28pm PT

Yeah, that "Tarzan" approach to the Sentinel...as previously mentioned. My partner slipped on that and skidded down to another little ledge, just before oblivion...
Glad that someone mentioned Jimmy Ray Forester. I never met him but an old friend from Oklahoma was his climbing partner and was deeply hurt by his loss.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Mar 29, 2010 - 04:51am PT

TripL7,

Thanks for the details on Jim Adair's accident. I edited my post to reclassify his death as not free soloing, since he was not on a mandatory 5th class section. But it sounds like he may have chosen a 5th class variation on the approach.

It's tough to lose such a young and very talented climber (and son to his parents).

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Mar 29, 2010 - 07:45am PT

I find it interesting that the same folks who celibrate the poorly bolted death rout and proclaim it shall never be fixed often condem the free soloist......

Chief

climber

Mar 29, 2010 - 10:02am PT

Really?

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Mar 29, 2010 - 10:16am PT

Yes, really.
It is not uncommon for folks to post that free soloing is A dick move,puts my party at risk of haveing to do a rescue/body recovery etc, bla, bla, bla.

Then the should the x rated relics/botch job museam pieces be fixed thread pops up and everyone jumps on the bandwagon for what a great tribute they are to history and save em for someone with more balls than me side of the argument.

I find that quite interesting as I feel that scary leads are way more dangerous than easy solos. YMMV

Jello

Social climber

No Ut

Mar 29, 2010 - 10:32am PT

So much is dependent on one's personal reference points. It's so hard for most to understand JB's reference points in regards to the level of risk in free soloing. As many have noted here, we all engage in unroped scrambling before, after and sometimes during climbs, and many traditional climbs have unprotected runouts that are long enough to put the leader in the mega-hurt zone if they get sloppy. It IS the essence of climbing, to deal with apparent risk, calculate it; accept it or not; and proceed accordingly.

As one who spent a lifetime in the mountains, confronting and weighing the added complications of the alpine realm and having very few close encounters, I can say that free soloing is just another very valid expression of a climber's passion. For every soloist who has died, I'll point to ten climbers who died roped up and belaying in the textbook definition of safe climbing.

Climbing, as we know it on Supertopo, is inherently unsafe, and the degree to which it is unsafe has little to do with the degree of difficulty or the outwardly percieved level of risk in a given climbing situation. Mostly level of risk is related to the individual climber's level of experience and attention to the moment and acceptance of his or her own responsibility for the outcome of the choices he or she makes.

JelloOnASunnyAfternoonAtTheFootOfTheEiger

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Mar 29, 2010 - 10:41am PT

Jello, Did you ever have a chance to clib at lake Willoughby VT? Nick

Fogarty

climber

BITD

Mar 29, 2010 - 10:53am PT

Troy Johnson Solo fall?

Bill Russell is a life saver and a friend you want in need!

Jello

Social climber

No Ut

Mar 29, 2010 - 11:03am PT

I never did get around to climbing at Willoughby, Nick. Whenever I was back east I was doing a seminar in Conway or the Adirondacks, and scarcely had any extra time for climbing before or after the clinics.

-JelloWishesHeKnewWilloughby

jstan

climber

Mar 29, 2010 - 11:08am PT

----------

I find it interesting that the same folks who celibrate the poorly bolted death rout and proclaim it shall never be fixed often condem the free soloist......

Mar 29, 2010 - 07:16am PT
Yes, really.
It is not uncommon for folks to post that free soloing is A dick move,puts my party at risk of haveing to do a rescue/body recovery etc, bla, bla, bla.

Then the should the x rated relics/botch job museam pieces be fixed thread pops up and everyone jumps on the bandwagon for what a great tribute they are to history and save em for someone with more balls than me side of the argument.
-------------

Superficially, I might seem to fall into this category. But not really.

1. The rock, as a natural creation, is really the only thing that merits celebration. It should be left as it is.
2. I tend to “celebrate” the things people don’t do. Withstanding the temptation of the moment is sometimes the harder and more thoughtful thing to do.
3. Visibly celebrating a free solo is poor, IMO. The act itself is entirely personal and it should stay entirely personal. Nothing but bad comes of participation by bystanders.

If someone does something that pleases them, I am happy they are happy. That’s about it.

Over the many decades a number of people I have known have died. You know what? It really would have been much better had they stayed around. Interesting youngsters with a lot of energy. A real loss. Every last one.

Edit for post down lower.

The fact a human response crops up frequently does not mean it has deep content.

You see someone driving a car while drinking a beer, you know a beer bottle will sooner or later come flying out. Given a particular situation, what people will say or do may be more a matter of the situation than of the person's world view. Even people who don't litter will throw a beer bottle out of a car window.

To get deeper meanings, you have sometimes to dig deeper. An offhand comment about soloists does not tell one much about how a person views climbing.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Mar 29, 2010 - 11:10am PT

Tradman,

The soloing is a dick move topic was more about soloing past a roped party.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Mar 29, 2010 - 11:22am PT

I understand that but those same comments pop up most every time the subject of soling comes up.

Melissa

Gym climber

berkeley, ca

Mar 29, 2010 - 11:33am PT

I can think of 3 more unmentioned grave injuries, and 2 deaths (woman at temple crag and another woman at Indian Creek).

The consequences of error are severe, and I do think that most hedge their bets with a good skill cushion and by selecting routes where the climbing allows for some back up attachment.

I like the idea of a soloing m&m list b/c I too was often told only the extreme pov's when I started climbing....that soloing was either sure death or that the only person ever to legitimately die that way got stuck in the rain. Neither is really true.

jstan

climber

Mar 29, 2010 - 11:52am PT

I'll repeat here my point 3 from just above.

3. Visibly celebrating a free solo is poor, IMO. The act itself is entirely personal and it should stay entirely personal. Nothing but bad comes of participation by bystanders.

There. Now it is all in one place.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Mar 29, 2010 - 11:58am PT

Maybe Ice climbers look at soloing differently than puer rock climbers?
While soloing can be that intensly personal experience that you guys are allways preaching about but more often than not for many of us here in the northeast its just annother day out on the ice getting a bit of fresh air and a workout running laps on easy stuff.

Same thing with my rock circuit. It can be a like Tai Chi in a meditative way but its certainly not death defying.. Just working out running laps on 5.5 to 5.7. nothing to see here folks.

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Boulder Creek CA

Mar 29, 2010 - 12:16pm PT

Does anyone remember the details on John Hudson? I think he fell solo in the Canadian Rockies. He and I did the Grand Teton one time at night and back unroped in 13 hours from the CCC camp, arriving on the summit right at sunrise. He was a fine and talented climber, but I was uncomfortable with some of the risks he was running.

originalpmac

Mountain climber

Anywhere I like

Mar 29, 2010 - 01:15pm PT

dude fell off the last traverse pitch on RA? Scary. I soloed that last fall, ad had a great time, but we got really baked on the ledge a little bit before the last pitch. Definitely got my attention. I remember reaching for the anchor with my daisy and clipping it, all stoked as can be. One of the best times of my life.

Soloing ice is different and I consider it par for the course. Gives you a good lead head. And cranking Metallica and Megadeath and RJD2 or whatever comes on shuffle is the greatest! I just use one earphone, cause like Blanchard said, you got to hear the placement.

Rudyj2

Trad climber

Mar 29, 2010 - 01:40pm PT

Tami wrote,
"Nicky Code ( spelling? ) ; a fine young Canadian and a woman who had just received or was working towards her guiding ticket. She died soloing that easiest route on Castle Rock at Leavenworth. I'd say about 25 years ago."

Nicky was my rock climbing instructor on that day at Castle Rock. She was overseeing two different roped teams of students who where doing their own leading. So, she was free soloing, but also traversing between the two routes occupied by her students. It was presumed that she fell while on one of these traverses on less traveled ground. She also fell over backwards and landed on the back of her head and neck, a position that led us to beleive she had broken a handhold. It was not quite 25 years ago, but happened in October of '91.

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Boulder Creek CA

Mar 29, 2010 - 01:44pm PT

Solo climbing
Life is all about risk management. There are lots of ways to manage risk. First on the list is situational awareness. Solo climbing is a type of situation where people tend to pay more attention to evaluating risk levels; say, in contrast to the attitude of many people towards driving on the freeway.

As part of my professional life, I help design risk management systems for human space flight launch vehicles. I just last week submitted a draft 60-page health and safety plan for one. It's all about identifying the risks along with their likelihood and consequence. Then you have to evaluate available risk mitigation strategies against cost and benefit.

I learned a lot from Walter Bonnati's method of spending a lot of time imagining everything that could go wrong on a big solo wall, and then imagining what you could do about it to survive.

The use of equipment and partners is just a part of risk management methodology. You can't just assume that any particular technical arrangement makes situations safe. The unknown is often the largest source of risk, as are emergent effects from unexpected relationships between people, equipment and events. There are also factors regarding how brittle and vulnerable nominal conditions are for collapse into catastrophic failure modes. Friends and equipment are part of the situation. Sometimes in alpine conditions it is safer not to have equipment and partners as part of the equation. You are less likely to knock rocks and ice onto your own head. Speed is sometimes the major safety factor and free solo is fast if you maintain an appropriate balance of technical competence and self confidence. Safety equipment is only as good as it doesn't in itself add unacceptable risk.

There are multiple meters running in our heads: one for difficulty and one for danger and ones for physical and emotional condition. It is wise to be aware and to not get them confused with each other. A very difficult climb can be quite safe, and an easy climb can be quite dangerous. The basic source of safety is maintaining good situational awareness guiding our judgment.

Seamstress

Trad climber

Yacolt, WA

Mar 29, 2010 - 03:23pm PT

I am surprised and touched that folks would remember Jim Adair. His family was/is amazingly gracious. The memorial funds from Jim was eventually given to the Ragged Mountain Foundation for stewardship at Ragged Mountain in CT about 25 years later.

I wish it were only the climber and their family affected by soloing. Accidents and fatalities can lead to increased regulations and closures. So you aren't taking a risk that only affects you and your family. Try explaining to a homeowner that the dead body pulled out of his backyard won't create a legal problem for him and won't affect his kids. Try explaining to the Parks Dept. that no climber has sued when someone else has fallen. They aren't in the mood to hear.

Rankin

climber

North Carolina

Mar 29, 2010 - 04:00pm PT

Free soloing is a black art.
I'm not going to tell anyone how they should climb, and I think people are kidding themselves if they think soloing doesn't involve competitiveness. Motivation is complicated and often involves one's own self-image in the context of a greater community. To insist that free soloing should be free of the outside influence of peer perception is ridiculous. People do not work that way.

JEleazarian

Trad climber

Fresno CA

Mar 29, 2010 - 04:05pm PT

As I read this thread, full of comments from so many climbers I've admired over the years, two thoughts come to mind: (1) There haven't been all that many deaths from falls by climbers intentionally free-soloing an entire route; and (2) Climbing generally is all about risk management.

Allen Bard was a friend of mine. I don't think he thought he was free soloing when he fell but, as was pointed out, it might as well have been. The Sentinel approach has some exposed and uncomfortable moves, but I didn't really think of myself as free-soloing them, any more than I think of North Dome Gully as a free solo. Almost all of us who climbed in the "good old days" in the Valley knew that many of the off-widths and chimneys we climbed were poorly-protected, if they were protected at all. Were we free soloing? If not, were we any less irresponsible than those who were?

I admire those who accept risks I no longer can (my oral pre-nuptial agreement [that's held up for several decades] prohibits fifth class free-soloing, although I sometimes "cheat"). Honnold's Half Dome solo is an amazing feat, far beyond my contemplation even 35 years ago, when my body could still climb well. I have no problem celebrating it, but I also have no problem discouraging its emulation.

Even though this seems hypocritical, I fear that if we make this competitive, and demand the Next Big Solo, we'll push our sport to the point where the general public thought we were decades ago: one step removed from suicide. If this be hypocrisy, make the most of it.

John

Bullwinkle

Boulder climber

Mar 29, 2010 - 04:41pm PT

I've been soloing and making photos of soloists for over 35years now, I feel like I know somethings about the subject. It's the purest form of the Art of Climbing, it's also the mark of a Champion, an Artist.

If you don't like it, turn the page, don't look at it, don't buy the video, get up and leave, thats what I did when I saw Forest Gump start running.

I've had lots of people tell me that they don't like what I do, guess they feel like they've got to say something. I on the other hand try to not judge, I try to witness, to see the Art and to celebrate life, Climbing. How other's (the public, the Posers) sees this is of no matter to me, I'll leave this to the Righteous among us. . .post on. . .

rectorsquid

climber

Lake Tahoe

Mar 29, 2010 - 04:56pm PT

A far better analogy is soloing and suicide. The person that dies leaves all the wreckage behind for family and other loved ones.

Anyone who chooses to solo must consider the grief they may inflict on myriad others.

It's more than personal.

Thanks goodness no one is affected by people who die while roped up.

But really, the statistics are not known but I would guess that there are enough accidents where people are roped up to make most SAR, friends, family, etc..., not really care specifically about picking up the bodies of soloists or carrying on after they die.

It's those hikers with bad hearts that are the real problem!

Dave

P.S. Yes, it's not personal but then nothing is really personal and it's rather ignorant sounding to suggest that only people more extreme then us roped rock climbers might be going too far.

Evel

Trad climber

Marijuana capital of the US

Mar 29, 2010 - 05:06pm PT

Well.... free soloing is for sure a VERY personal thing, so I guess I'd have to agree that soloing past a roped party is possibly a 'dick' manuver. However, I'm not so sure about the various arguments against doing it. I free solo a lot [not on the level of some] and am careful to not be around others when I do so. And I don't think I'm putting anyone at risk of having to rescue/recover me. Yeah it stinks when somebody augers in, and yeah it stinks for whomever may feel obligated to clean up the mess [which I'm not sure if anybody IS..] As Bullwinkle said soloing is Climbing Art at it's Finest. That leaves the final cut to the Artist.

Peace Ya'll

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Mar 29, 2010 - 05:20pm PT

Cragman, Do you advocate retro bolting dangerous climbs to make them safer?

Alan Rubin

climber

Amherst,MA.

Mar 29, 2010 - 05:48pm PT

In reply to Tom Cochrane--John Hudson died when a cornice broke in South America--I don't remember if he was solo or climbing unroped with a partner--not at all unusual in alpine situations--think Hermann Buhl. As others have said most of us climb unroped on "3rd class" terrain--whatever that is, as it usually varies from person to person, and it is there that many accidents happen. A few years before Jim Adair's death--a fine young man and excellent climber, Johnny Waterman--who later disappeared solo below Denali--and I were approaching up the ramps to the Steck-Salathe and got on the wrong ramp. When we discovered our mistake Johnny wanted to head straight up the slabs to the next ramp but conservative Alan persuaded him(not without considerable difficulty) to backtrack to locate the correct ramp. My understanding is that Jim made the same route-finding mistake but instead of back-tracking attempted the "short-cut". But there surely have been too many deaths by experienced soloists who deliberately set out to do a solo--several from the UK that I'm aware of include Jim Jewell,Tony Wilmott, Peter Biven,Paul Williams,(these last 3 all on easy--for them--routes that they'd previously soloed) and a mate of Jerry Moffat whom he writes about in his recent book.Also English climber Cliff Phillips, who was at the time a leading soloist, somehow survived a 200+ ft. fall onto talus in North Wales and was able to drive himself to the hospital!!! And there have been many more solo deaths on the Continent. I'm not condeming soloing--it is an individual choice, but I'm just countering a few comments on this thread that seem to downplay the number of such deaths. Basically I totally agree with jstan's comments.

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Mar 29, 2010 - 09:36pm PT

It's interesting that the list that Beck asked for is so short! This group of climbers posting on this thread has many many years of experience and knowledge of different parts of the world and this is all we got?!

I was sitting around Sunday talking with my brother about all the high school classmates we knew who had passed on...it was significantly longer than this list. Furthermore, I can come up with a list of local climbers who have passed away from other things (Car wreck, hiking slip, motorcycle accident, Lou Gehrigs disease, suicide, etc etc) that would put all of your contributions in total to shame. I don't know any active climbers who died of a heart attack though, whereas that's the #1 or 2 killer of the general population.

I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.....anyway - are we done compiling the list Erik? Not very long, fortunately.

TripL7

Trad climber

san diego

Mar 29, 2010 - 10:42pm PT

Alistair "Bugs" McKieth, on Mt Assiniboine, 1978.

I spoke with his two partners on the climb, and they said he unroped after the final technical pitch, and decided to third class the relatively low angle summit snow/ice slab that had an overhanging summit cornice. As he was topping out the cornice collapsed.

I mention this because, once again, we have a highly skilled alpinist/climber, on relatively easy ground, making a fatal mistake(his two partners wanted to continue as a roped party to the summit).

smith curry

climber

nashville,TN

Mar 29, 2010 - 10:43pm PT

I stopped looking at free soloing the same way after I started climbing in the mountains a lot. Staying roped up and/or pitching climbs out is a good way to get killed in the mountains. I recently had a health scare, and one thing I thought was "God I'm glad I got to do all those climbs (and solos) before I got sick". I got better but it makes you think...

Eric Beck

Sport climber

Bishop, California

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 29, 2010 - 10:49pm PT

Thanks guys for all the data you have contributed. This was not intended to be an exercise in ghoulishness. You have confirmed my thesis that free soloing deaths are not that common. Many of the reports, such as falling off a class 3-4 approach were not what I was really looking for. An example here could be the death of Terray, slipping on grass, after finishing a climb at his local crag.

Let me share some data from different fields. I worked on the patrol at Squaw Valley for 6 years in the 70s. We accumulated data on the number of accidents on different runs. The winner by far was Broadway, a beginner's run. The fewest number of incidents were on KT22, almost all advanced skiing. However, these tended to be much more serious, involving falling over cliffs or hitting trees.

Along this line, I have heard that the accident rate on twisty mountain roads is much less than that on wide open freeways.

The idea here, seems to be that when the danger is obvious people pay much more attention.

Anyway, should Alex decide to climb El Cap without a rope, an idea which gives me the absolute creeps, it may not be as dangerous as it appears. I do not encourage this activity, but also cannot comprehend how good modern climbers really are.

Let's note that what we all love about climbing is the actual climbing, our bodies moving over the stone. All the other stuff we do with ropes and hardware is just to allow us to climb without feeling gripped.

dr. juicer kaniglio

Trad climber

san diego, ca

Mar 29, 2010 - 10:56pm PT

today, i saw a roped climber deck, and most likely compound fracture his arm, on a pitch that i free solo daily. this is the second time in the last couple years that ive witnessed a roped climber deck on a route that i free solo. go figure.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Mar 30, 2010 - 12:14am PT

Soloing is always amazing, and an interesting yardstick.

Few other activities have that kind of focus factor. Sure, people that do the crazy ass solo boating ventures are really cutting it thin, and base jumping is always insanely dangerious, but Alex on Half Dome...

Two and a half hours where one split second wrong decision, one small foot placement error or a sneeze and you are out of there.... woah. The kind of people that can pull that off accomplish more for the story of humanity than the building of any skyscraper or writing of any novel. That is control over the human brain in ways we will not see anywhere else.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Mar 30, 2010 - 12:15am PT

Dr. Juicer, where was this at??

blahblah

Gym climber

Boulder

Mar 30, 2010 - 12:17am PT

Along this line, I have heard that the accident rate on twisty mountain roads is much less than that on wide open freeways.

I'm calling BS on that unless I see some convincing data.
I suppose you think riding a tricked out sport bike is safer than cruising in a Camry for the same reason?

Your point undoubtedly has some validity in some situations, but come on.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Mar 30, 2010 - 12:17am PT

Cragman, that is exactly what I am getting at. Climbing r or x rated climb is just as much driveing without a seatbelt as soloing. The burden on society is pretty much exactly the same.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Mar 30, 2010 - 12:25am PT

But are they ding safe?

Fuzzywuzzy

climber

suspendedhappynation

Mar 30, 2010 - 12:36am PT

Roy. Jello. Bullwinkle.

Thanks

Curt

Boulder climber

Gilbert, AZ

Mar 30, 2010 - 12:38am PT

"...I am saying that the result of a mistake are (is?) most often fatal..."

Thank God that's not necessarily the case.

Curt

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Mar 30, 2010 - 01:54am PT

Below are two threads, from April 2006, in which we discussed this topic.
… Other perspectives and further offerings by our esteemed contributors,
You might think of them as "extensions" of the current thread: they are there for your perusal.

Eric Beck's thesis brings to mind something I've long held (not too tightly), which is that a climber free soloing on difficult free ground is quite typically so focused, so well-prepared, and so given to the task at hand, all concentrated in such a very short and dedicated time span, notably with minimal distraction, that a margin of safety actually goes UP, when compared with many acts of daily living, let alone climbing.

Now there's a counterintuitive idea!

Debate that as you will; it is not meant as a justification for anything.
Uh, except free soloing, at the perfect moment ... (NOTE: you may die or become seriously injured as an outcome of an attempt to perform said act),
This is primarily just my "out-of-the-box" assessment and a whimsical rumination; an observation.

--------------------------------------------------------------

A sobering look at free solo ...

http://supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1129628/Free-Soloing-Deaths

Celebrating the Free Solo!

http://supertopo.com/climbers-forum/183477/Celebrating-the-Free-Solo

Below are four excerpts of my own contributions to the second thread,
Not quite as concise as what I posted just above (yesterday), but with some deeper expository effort put toward unwrapping certain notions:

There is no safe place: only a linkage of choice and experience, for a limited time, either alone or with people you care about.

Think, imagine, all the times you have been in harm's way in life and didn't even know it. Where you in death's reach during many points in your 7000 leads? Was that auto accident eluding you because you left the house 5 minutes late?

It comes down to active and passive risk taking. When you choose to risk, whether by solo, rope, car, diet, & etc, your apparaisal of the risk is only approximate, but it is done with a degree of awareness. Awareness is a funny thing in this regard and we often comfort ourselves with a certain ignorance.

I choose active risk taking, where my resolve and tenacity are openly tested, where I can meet life and grow in response to adversity. Passive risk taking, meaning risk we undergo without a clear awareness, represents to me a missed opportunity to be awake and alive: It envelopes a delusion of safety and much of it is unavoidable.

Many times as a guide, I explained the value of a bit of free soloing to help sharpen the leading skill. How many times have I been on lead, only to find that the gear or situation was really one much the same as a free solo? This preparedness and familiarity of that condition has been crucial. The free solo and the lead have blurred lines.

We live much of life in delusion per the risks. Yes we can mitigate our exposure. Our choices in the end are highly personal and must be carefully applied. There is no safe place. Awareness, judgement, and courage must be wrought, moment by moment.

What I see as a core isssue here (aside from the notable concept of exposing children to death, which is a horror for sure), is this concept that is brought up quite often on these forums: the touchy subject of external controls[passive controls] vs internal controls[judgement].

Dig:
In the olden days, before Ben Hur, climbers were super duper into exposing themselves to a style of ascent which brought out the best in instincts, judgement, self reliance. It really was meant and practiced in the spirit of mountaineering and total self sufficiency. (leader never laybacks,leader never falls!) This meant more with less. It meant commitment. Dare I say there is a certain genius in boldness, but, but, this only comes about through extensive time commitment and all out focus.

In modern times, there are more and more people getting [into] climbing, which still is very close to a true blood sport, confused with mere recreation. Yes, it can be recreation and it doesn't have to be a blood sport any longer. But: this concept that wearing a helmet, leading vs soloing, bolting vs placing gear, over bolting vs artful runouts, this is a concept which is contributing a lot of reliance on passive control, thereby helping the concept of rigorous internal control to slip to the rear of our collective and individual consciousness.

This IS dangerous!

It's probably good that people now wear helmets, but as ALPSPITZ said a month ago on super topo: "A helmet is no substitute for judgement".

Our culture (particularly American culture) is heavily invested in external controls and slowly losing grasp of sacrifice and commitment. The flexible, adaptive and ACTIVE mental and physical capacity which results in the individual gets lost when we rely more and more on external controls.

Sport climbing is great. Gyms are wonderfull for kids and many of us who have diminished free time.

The issue I am underscoring is the delusional thinking cultivated in people who are over invested in external controls and under enriched in internal controls. This style of personal developement is very risky when it is applied to the "blood sport" milieu of trad climbing. It is less risky when applied to highly controlled climbing environments, but it is still a problem. People, climbers, need too develope a balanced understanding of the risks as well as a balanced application of there own self assesment skills.

If you think you shouldn't free solo: don't.
If you feel like you could: think again.

I believe competent free soloing is not the domain of the climbing masses, yet I say, to some degree, it has a place in most any trad climber's repertoire. Such as: certain descents and mountainous approach terrain. The whole definition of third class is the historical and practical reference: meaning ground which is harder than 2nd class and easier than 4th class, ground whereby one typically does not use a rope but where a fall may be fatal.

For more difficult free soloing to be enriching and relatively sane, there has to be present within the individual a very well seated recognition of positive outcome, a certainty, within the mind-body.

Most of my friends, as they age, solo less. Given their aging tissues and diminished time contact with stone,(whereby mental pathways are less reconnected with nerves and willing physique), they should be reaching a conclusion to solo less.

They as well should lead less difficult stuff and stay within their comfort zones, unless there activity level is highly sustained as in there brilliant youth.

When I was a very young lead climber, 13 years old, I recognized the risks and proceeded with extreme caution, staying well within my zone, before learning to push the envelope.

Young or old, This is the same type of internal assesment skill which every risk taker needs to begin to develope from day one. It is risk management 101.

I'm falling right now and I intend to survive.
(totally deluded)!

Other folks wrote some neat stuff in those two threads ... go check it out!

Maysho

climber

Soda Springs, CA

Mar 30, 2010 - 09:58am PT

Tarbrother,

Thanks for recycling that piece of insightful prose, I liked it then, and appreciate it now.

Someone above mentioned the tragic demise of a young woman on Incredible Hand Crack some years back. I spent a morning with her boyfriend about a month afterwards in Rovana. He had just returned from visiting the woman's parents (sorry I can't remember any names).

I was really struck by this nice young man's anguish and sadness, the result of what one hopes was an inspirational act ending with the ultimate finality... a life extinguished.

For awhile after that morning I would see the Patagonia full page ad of Steph Davis soloing the same crack, and feel bitter about an inspirational image that may spur other young climbers to dream of unroped glories, but perhaps with not as much skill, maybe not as much rehearsal, certainly no possibility of a photogs rope to bail on if the crack turned out sandy, or the day was not right.

I have loved the solos I have done, and I have been inspired to hear tell of the grander feats of many others, but I have always felt uneasy by the after effect promos of these in modern times. Dean soloing Astroman was incredible, but I don't desire to watch a staged filmed re-inactment, made so media folks can make money on it, and so others will be moved to buy more clothes.

Peter

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Mar 30, 2010 - 10:47am PT

Nice Peter!

I don't lust after the high end solos anymore.
My "champion" days are history.
I just wanna wear the clothes.

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Mar 30, 2010 - 11:01am PT

Out of respect for the initial thrust of the OP and NOT to be morbid, but rather because a sober accounting helps to serve realistic inquiry and discussion, as well as frame things starkly for any inexperienced young people currently reading this, I recalled a few other free soloing accidents:

Within the last decade, a guy died here soloing the Third Flatiron above Boulder.

And these accidents listed below, though not culminating in fatality, are probably worthy of admission to the list.
All but one of these people, (Roland), sustained serious injury:

Our own James here on the forum, falling off North Overhanging, Joshua Tree.

Greg Cameron, Grug here on the forum, grounded off of Generator Crack, Yosemite.

Roland skidded off I think, Willie’s Hand Jive?, Lembert Dome.

Herb Laeger, grounded off something in Echo Cove, Joshua Tree.

Chief

climber

Mar 30, 2010 - 12:31pm PT

Tarbuster, Maysho, well said.

It seems there are few examples of people pitching off high end, intentional, rock climbing free solos. Many of the deaths mentioned are slips on easier ground on approaches, after the climbing has eased off or on alpine terrain.

For the record, Gregs Cameron's on sight free solo, first free ascent of Pipeline stands out as one of the boldest things EVER done in Squamish or anywhere for that matter. Overhanging 7" crack 500 feet off the forest floor.
That's just plain impressive and inspiring!

aspendougy

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Mar 30, 2010 - 01:12pm PT

As far as being statistically dangerous, free soloing is more safe, for example, than climbing K-2. There are many different risk factors in so many activities; certainly free soloing increases risk, but you think of how really good climbers have died; Todd Skinner's worn sling; Madsen rapelling off.........

I was very interested in Werner's post that John Bachar died on descent, not free soloing. I think a lot of us had just assumed that he was free soloing and fell.

Largo

Sport climber

The Big Wide Open Face

Mar 30, 2010 - 01:38pm PT

Soloing will always be a thrilling and volitile topic becuase most anything involving life and death in such a direct manner will get us to sit up in our chairs. It's also a remarkable screen for our projections and fears, and unless someone is in touch with their existential fear, their appraisal of soloing will of course be mired in rationalizations - all perfectly valid from that perspecive - of how foolish and selfish is soloing. The notin that soloing is "selfish" is an especially interesting study.

Of course there is no objective truth to any judgement per soloing, though some pronouncements sound better to our rational mind than others. But I do think that trying to derive some definitive statement about what soloing is, or should be, or can be, or shouldn't be, is expecting too much of our quantatative skills.

JL

Elcapinyoazz

Social climber

Redlands

Mar 30, 2010 - 01:56pm PT

Two quick things:

Peter: Liz and Linus. She was dragging a rope to hang a TR for friends.

Everyone I know who has lived the full time climbing bum lifestyle freesolos. Every one.

Maysho

climber

Soda Springs, CA

Mar 30, 2010 - 02:07pm PT

Elcapinyo... Thanks, yes it was Linus I spent the morning with, really nice young man, hope he is doing great things these days...

Peter

dr. juicer kaniglio

Trad climber

san diego, ca

Mar 30, 2010 - 02:26pm PT

ok, ive bit my tongue long enough. since alex honnald was mentioned in the initial post, id like to mention that i read an article where he stated that his solos of astroman and the rostrum were no big deal, they are only 5.11, and anybody could repeat that feat. i agree, though that person will never be me, i agree that with appropriate training such a feat is no big deal. he also stated that everybody makes such a big deal about free soloing when its not. i couldnt agree more. people die. people die from the silliest bs imaginable. few people die soloing. people are overly dramatic. making a big deal about free soloing is a superb way to be overly dramatic about something that is no big deal. people like myself who free solo regularly tend to have a casual attitude towards it. people who dont free solo seem to use the practice as a vehicle to spew all kinds of drama and cook up all kinds of bs theories regarding what to me is nothing more than casual work-out. if soloing is something you dont participate in, why would you care about other peoples motivation to solo? exactly, because it provides a vehicle to be overly dramatic and make a big deal out of nothing(drama). a practice that humans hold so dear to their heart!
and while im here, this is the second time ive ever posted on this website anything more than a question about weather. honestly, i think this website is pretty much a joke, not inherently, but because much of the material posted here has little or nothing to do with climbing. and almost never do i find any beneficial information about climbing. i see the same names posting the same irrelevant bs and theories day in and day out. do you people climb anything besides in and out of your computer terminal? if so you might be a lot less concerned about statistics( regarding deaths in climbing), and trying to sum up other peoples motivation for the practice of free soloing which you dont do and therefore dont understand...... peace, juicer

MH2

climber

Mar 30, 2010 - 03:11pm PT

There are some useful generalizations, here.

Here are a few specific individual experiences of a typical rock-climber, me.

1968
saw rgold walk up to Hawk (Gunks), chalk up, and solo it. never occurred to me that I might do such a thing.

early 70s
walking into the Adirondacks, saw a 50' corner and decided to climb it. looking down near the top didn't realize the effect it would have to not see the reassuring rope linking through protection and could only think, "if I fall I die"

soloing virus spread to my peers at the Gunks, I did a couple 5.2s on one of which a young woman on a nearby route gave me what I thought was an I'm-attracted-in-spite-of-myself look, which I felt the falsity of

nevertheless, soloing at the Gunks in that era had a wonderful sense of freedom, summertime release, a simpler connection to the rock, like swimming nude

another formative experience was having my rope knock rocks down on a soloing Chuck Loucks. they missed him but the lesson was that even a soloist in complete control might be taken out by circumstances beyond their control, circumstances that would not dire if roped in

80s
read in the magazines about Henry, Peter, JB and knew I didn't have the head for that

plenty of excitement, though in alpine rock approaches in the Cascades, in that intermediate terrain not yet steep enough to require a rope but steep enough for getting hurt

90s to now
got into bouldering over the water and sometimes over not-water where a fall might not kill but could do a lot of damage. my head is still not good and if I get into trouble I tense up and start to panic. once a photographer friend came to take pictures and that had an oddly relaxing effect. I did bolder stuff than usual and felt complete confidence.

Back to the generalizing. People who climb a lot, meaning pretty much every day, can develop a much broader comfort level than us part-timers. But there must also be some mental/spiritual difference that has kept a fair number of high-end soloists safe over the years.

Like Eric Beck, I have been surprised that there have not been more soloing deaths. We might consider the possibility that part of the explanation may be the good judgement most of us have exercised in not attempting solos of long hard routes.

bhilden

Trad climber

Mountain View, CA

Mar 30, 2010 - 04:04pm PT

Have we all forgotten Michael Reardon so quickly? Some very big solos only to get swept out to sea by a wave from a cliff's edge.

Bruce

slevin

Trad climber

New York, NY

Mar 30, 2010 - 04:43pm PT

There is a Russian movie where one of the characters sings a song about the mountains. One of the verses said "No, it's sill better then dying from vodka or pneumonia". Recently, I found myself subscribing to this philosophy more and more.

PS. I am not a big sucker for free soloing. But I did climb a few hard R-rated routes and do run things out occasionally.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Mar 30, 2010 - 05:01pm PT

Rock climbing is dangerous so it always amazes me when climbers come down on others for free soloing, base jumping or anything else dangerous. It's all just levels of degrees how dangerous something is.

However I don't agree that approaches and descents are free soloing. 3rd class has steep scrambling, but usually not the exposure where a fall could lead to death. 4th class is almost free soloing, a fall could lead to death, but it shouldn't be technically challenging your limits. True free soloing is on 5th class territory IMO.

If someone is strong enough that 5th class feels like 4th class to them I don't see why they shouldn't make the choice to solo it, if that's what the want and they are very confident in the their ability to send it. But it's defineatly taking the risk factor up another notch compared to roped climbing. Everyone makes their own choices. I wouldn't push my limits free soloing anywhere near my onsight capabilities, and I wouldn't recommend anyone else should do it, but if that's what they live for who am I to tell them they are wrong?

Most accidents result from someone making a mistake(s). When you free solo you are typically very experienced and very focused on not making a mistake so it doesn't suprise me there aren't many free solo accidents.

TomKimbrough

Social climber

Salt Lake City

Mar 30, 2010 - 05:37pm PT

John Hudson was killed on the north side of Huascarán climbing with Roman Laba. They were on relatively easy ground, I think. John slipped on snow, maybe a cornice was involved, and was unable to arrest.

I have loved free soloing on easy rock (up to 5.8 or 5.9) when I have been climbing well at a 5.11 level. I usually wore a harness, carried a few pieces and a short, light rope. I only soloed routes that I had previously climbed.

I once projected a bolted 12b at Blacktail in the Tetons. I worked it for a month and had it so, so wired. After redpointing it I realized I could solo it. There was no chance I was going to do that but it made me realize how really good climbers could do amazing stuff without a rope.

It is a bit nitpicking but I wonder when I see photos of someone "soloing" that seem to be taken by a person nearby on a rope. They are surely climbing marvelous stuff without a rope but I'm not sure the term "soloing" is quite right.

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Mar 30, 2010 - 08:44pm PT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwCyM84HCcA

James

climber

My twin brother's laundry room

Mar 31, 2010 - 12:26am PT

I'd like to add that I did NOT die free soloing.

Hardman Knott

Gym climber

Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca

Mar 31, 2010 - 02:08am PT

Well, enough people died on Double Cross that it got bolted.

Go figure...

Jan

Mountain climber

Okinawa, Japan

Mar 31, 2010 - 08:22pm PT

Paola has posted autopsy reports on John Bachar possibly indicating that he was struck by a rock while climbing and that was the cause of his fall. Some have thought it might be more accurate to say he died from rockfall rather than free solo climbing.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1132058/ABOUT-JOHN-BACHARS-ACCIDENT

Don Lauria

Trad climber

Bishop, CA

Apr 1, 2010 - 01:18am PT

Geezus Eric,

We were just discussing this at Mill Creek and, boom, four days later, we got a real discussion going.

Rudder

Trad climber

Long Beach, CA

Jan 17, 2011 - 07:26pm PT

Rock is hard.

Humans are soft.

Make certain you know what you're doing.

If you're a climber, what else is there to say?

rich sims

Social climber

Jan 17, 2011 - 07:52pm PT

Soloing is a choice not a need**; Any more than roped climbing?
Anyone ever die from not going climbing, not directly anyway.

rincon

Trad climber

SoCal

Jan 17, 2011 - 07:58pm PT

I'd like to add that I did NOT die free soloing.

No, but you ALMOST did!

Anastasia

climber

hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.

Jan 17, 2011 - 08:33pm PT

John Bachar created a career upon being a free soloist. It was this fame that gave him his source of income. In order to provide for his son, he knew that keeping his soloing career/remain in the media spotlight was a direct link to having a descent income.

Selfish? No... I think his reasons/motivations were bit more complex than a single word/judgment can encompass.

RIP Bachar

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

It ain't El Cap, Oregon

Jan 17, 2011 - 08:47pm PT

Anastasia... well said.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Trad climber

Will know soon

Jan 17, 2011 - 09:12pm PT

Good thoughts Ana.

Over the past year plus I have listened to some conjecture in the climbing community on John Bachar's passing. For some to take unknown circumstances and create negative suppositions that are not provable to me dishonors the object of such thoughts and conversations.....in this case Bachar.

Rock fall .... however it may have fallen.... seems a possibility. But pro never really know.

John was working towards turning his career/life in new directions. Book ideas, corporate motivational seminars and more. He was seeking to solve the tough problems in his life. I think the best of a creative, gifted human that had lots to work out career, physical and relationship wise.... but was trying. Just my opinion from my perspective. Know many knew him longer and better.

426

climber

Buzzard Point, TN

Jan 18, 2011 - 09:06am PT

Rankin, top notch post...

My feeling has been that, concerning traditional climbing, a bit of free soloing on moderate terrain, developed to a level of fundamental competence, is arguably an asset in terms of experience to the degree that it helps a climber cope with mandatory unprotected sections while on lead, to prepare a climber to deal with 3rd class terrain in the mountains and generally helps square the head up.

-Tar

A lot of times, the bits from Yosemite Climbs (intro-"Staying Alive") comes to my mind in dangerous terrain. I've probably read this section 800 times minimum and should probably review regularly.

"Remember, finally, that your climbing ability has probably been measured on clean, rated routes, not unpredictable sand and wet moss. Being a 5.11 climber does not mean you can fly."

gonamok

climber

aging malcontent

Jan 19, 2011 - 03:59am PT

Free soloing is the most enjoyable type of climbing for me. To just go and go without worrying about belays or gear, climbing the whole line instead of pitch by pitch is exhillerating.

If/when I free solo, its gonna be something with solid rock, minimal objective hazards, way below my limit (talking 5.6 or easier) and in good conditions. Soloing for me isnt about pushing anything, just unfettered climbing.

my 2 pennies

chum

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jan 20, 2011 - 01:34am PT

Linnea Erickson died while free soloing Temple Crag several years ago. She was very young. Mid - early 20's.

I climbed the same route (Venusian Blind) a year after that and nearly pulled off a refrigerator sized block that would have most likely killed me. Maybe soloing this route isn't that much safer.

Another person I was acquainted with died on the Open Book about 4 years ago. I think his last name was Parrish.

Sad deaths. I used to solo a lot. I could have blown it a couple of times. I mush say that I'm glad I didn't. But I really loved to solo. I miss it.

ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber

bouldering

Jan 20, 2011 - 04:32am PT

John Bachar ... knew that keeping his soloing career/remain in the media spotlight was a direct link to having a descent income.

Dude, I saw him about a week before he died - honed as ever, and with the aura of just coming off the rock. That's fÜcked up what you said, and spelling decent wrong too.

Bill Mc Kirgan

Trad climber

Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Jan 20, 2011 - 07:46am PT

Who are you quoting ^^^ there B?

426

climber

Buzzard Point, TN

Jan 20, 2011 - 07:54am PT

Dude, I saw him about a week before he died - honed as ever

Externally, perhaps so, but it seemed to me JB was fighting some pretty 'internal' issues; when he was in the SE he talked about some injuries (nerve damage) that were bothering him, and there was also some posts here on ST...

Bachar Apr 13, 2009
"I pinched my C6/C7 disc and had a cervical fusion there two and a half years ago. Now it seems like there's growing weakness in my shoulder, upper arm and fingers....

I have no illusions that my arm will ever be "normal" again but I'm just hoping for some kind of relief program that can help..."

stilltrying

Trad climber

washington indiana

Jan 20, 2011 - 08:51am PT

The topic of soloing or anything related to taking chances that are a little risky is always so convoluted. I did not know John Bachar although I knew a lot about his climbing career. I never could climb at his level but have soloed a bit. I now climb with a 3 volt battery keeping me alive and a defibrillator with 3 wires that come from a lot that was recalled and they stopped making them. I also bike a lot, both single track and road.
In my mind I can either look at the risk of something happening like a shock from a defective wire which will knock me down or damage caused by pulling down hard while climbing etc. and go sit down or I can do what makes me feel alive and happy, bike and climb etc. To me that is probably what Mr. Bachar was doing - enjoying what made him feel alive, what made him tick. No one lives forever and the most we can strive for is to follow our hearts desire. Seems to me John Bachar lived a life full of adventure and fullfillment. How he died is just nowhere near as important as how he lived. Sad for his family but that is true for all of us no matter how we leave this world. He could of just as easily lived to be a Fred Becky or a John Gill. They took chances but it just was not their time to go.

tonym

climber

Oklahoma

Jan 20, 2011 - 09:56am PT

What stilltrying said..

JerryA

Mountain climber

Sacramento,CA

Jan 20, 2011 - 10:19am PT

Kevin Bein on the Matterhorn .

jamatt

Social climber

Asheville, NC

Jan 20, 2011 - 12:01pm PT

stilltrying

that's an awesome shirt in your pic. i'm a b-town native (left 89) but everytime i'm bacvk i go to hh.

lemonviolence

Trad climber

Monrovia, CA

Jan 20, 2011 - 12:40pm PT

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1183231/Body-found-in-tree-near-Absolutely-Free

Was this guy actually soloing? Never got the full story on what happened.

Edit: Found his name: Tyler Tompkins

Seems like he may have been soloing... maybe.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Jan 20, 2011 - 12:42pm PT

Kevin Bein was rappelling wasn't he?

wbw

climber

'cross the great divide

Jan 20, 2011 - 12:49pm PT

Marshall Thom on Glenwood Falls. Must be getting pretty close to 20 years ago.

It should be pointed out that there is a huge difference "soloing" alpine terrain by necessity, which is common, versus making the conscious decision to take the rope off on a route that most people climb with a belay. Slipping while "walking off" a climb should probably not be included in free solo deaths either.

Rest in peace ya punter. I miss you.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Jan 20, 2011 - 01:30pm PT

Kevin Bein was rappelling wasn't he?

And on The Eiger as I recall.

stilltrying

Trad climber

washington indiana

Jan 20, 2011 - 01:43pm PT

Hey Jamatt,
B-town is awesome. I am the original owner of Hoosier Heights.
Gave it up after the heart issues as trying to do that and my regular job and living in a different town was too much to handle. Joe Anderson is now
the owner and he and the crew there still do a great job. It is ironic on a thread about soloing that just recently HH went to all fixed gri-gris on the top ropes. Joe told me he was pushed in that direction because someone broke both legs when his belayer let go due to rope burn ?? Sounds like he would have been better off soloing :) Good to hear from another climbing Hoosier. Take care.
Mike

Daniel Eubank

Sport climber

Woodbridge, VA

Jan 20, 2011 - 02:04pm PT

Dan Osman said it best,

"it's not a death wish, it's a life wish"

rgold

Trad climber

Poughkeepsie, NY

Jan 20, 2011 - 02:26pm PT

Kevin's was not a free-soloing accident. I don't remember Kevin doing any free-soloing at all. Kevin and Barbara were retreating from the Hornli Ridge of the Matterhorn under severe icing conditions. Kevin was rapelling off an in-situ anchor that failed. Barbara was not clipped to it and so survived.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Aug 18, 2014 - 10:35pm PT

how 'bout a separate thread remembering our fallen soloist brethren in YNP? It's way more than 3... one guy went from Cloud's Rest late 70's? Plus very cute redhead who worked at the T Meadows store summer of '81...was following some dood up Tenaya Peak.

Stephen Anthony Serada, age 22, August 16, 1979 - between Clouds Rest and Little Yosemite Valley

Judith Ellen McDade, age 22, August 7, 1981 - Tenaya Peak with Bennett Johnston (who had to be rescued)
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=118397716
from Death in Yosemite
I didn't include these in my original count because they were listed in the "Scrambling" chapter.
Usually this means less than 5th class, and/or climbing without rock shoes.
[Edit:] Thanks, nita.

nita

Social climber

chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.

Aug 18, 2014 - 11:48pm PT

*
*
^^
Both of those beautiful people were Yosemite employees and Wonderful humans....
Those two Lovely people were so much more than a footnote on their death.

Breaks my heart to see their ages in print...although, at the time i knew how old they were when they died.

I am still haunted by Judy's death.

ps.. Sewellymon, Judy was blonde , not a Redhead.... she worked at the T.M. grill. and Bennett was following Judy on Tenaya Peak...
Bennett is a lovely guy...His father was a Senator.. serving the state of Louisiana for several terms...

Judy had just graduated from Duke University ~ Summa c#m laude..and was supposed to leave for the Peace corps to Africa after T.M...
And it's Judith E McDade...Ellen.
http://culturalanthropology.duke.edu/undergraduate/awards

Tommy D

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, Ca

Aug 19, 2014 - 01:31pm PT

Rumor has it that Derek Hersey's body was found well to the left of the Steck-Salathe. Historically speaking, Croft had just free-soloed Astroman, Hersey was at his prime and had done similar levels of soloing in Colorado (pumping laps on the Diamond). Chouinard-Herbert was a logical target for him. It was May, and the crux pitches were likely wet. We'll never really know, but it seems far more logical that a soloist of his caliber fell from the Chouinard-Herbert, than the Steck Salathe.

Let's face it, free-solo is a wholly unjustifiable pursuit, but that does not mean that the risk/ reward factor is not high enough to make it worthwhile to some people. Expressing mastery in any craft has undeniable appeal. Mastery is always inspiring, and death is always sad for those left behind.

I am far more averse to a risk averse life than to risk. We never really know when that bus is gonna stop for us, but it is coming whether you wait for it in a chair, or on the face of a cliff. Gotta stay focused, hone our skills to the optimum, but I for one have no plans to wait around. I'm heading back out there and engage fully with this wonderful life and all the adventures that we can find and share.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Aug 19, 2014 - 01:47pm PT

It was May, and the crux pitches were likely wet.

Not just likely, it rained that afternoon.

According to the report in Accidents in North American Mountaineering:
Derek Hersey told Craig Leubben at 10am that he planned to climb the Steck-Salathe'. (Of course he could have changed his mind).
Derek left camp at 11am.
At 1-2pm that day, there were thunder showers which were heavy enough to cause people to retreat from climbs on El Cap.

aspendougy

Trad climber

Los Angeles, CA

Aug 19, 2014 - 02:04pm PT

Chris Chan:

According to this article, she was free soloing, but I think she fell on the descent:

"Chan, 31, died Friday afternoon doing what she loved — scaling a massive wall of rock. The former president of the Stanford Alpine Club fell to her death while descending Eichorn Pinnacle in Yosemite National Park.

National Park Service representatives confirmed Tuesday that Chan was free solo climbing without ropes or gear when she slipped and fell about 300 feet around 1:30 p.m. It is not known why she slipped."

Descents are especially dangerous, as we are tired, and sometimes the lighting is poor. After the adrenalin rush of the ascent, the mind sometimes goes into a more passive stupor.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Aug 19, 2014 - 02:38pm PT

Chouinard Herbert is right of SS, not left.

Incorrect.
Might you be confusing the Chouinard-Herbert with the Sentinel West Face?

Laine

Trad climber

Reno, NV

Aug 19, 2014 - 02:41pm PT

Another Yose solo gone back.

From Rock and Ice...
[Brad Parker died in a fall on Saturday, August 16, while climbing Matthes Crest in Tuolumne Meadows, Yosemite, California. The Press Democrat reports that Parker was attempting to free-solo the Matthes Crest Traverse]

Just proposed to his GF, very sad.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Aug 19, 2014 - 03:01pm PT

I can't ever remember any photos or accounts of Kauk climbing hard stuff without a rope

In the Sports Illustrated article, the opening page is a photo of him soloing Little Wing.
As to whether that is "hard" for him, that could be debated, but it's 5.10d and you can't entirely jam it.

Rankin

Social climber

Greensboro, North Carolina

Aug 19, 2014 - 03:18pm PT

Croft had soloed Astroman about 6 years before Hersey's death. And a fall from the SS should not be surprising if the flare before the Narrows was wet.

CrackAddict

Trad climber

Canoga Park, CA

Aug 19, 2014 - 05:12pm PT

Soloing is inherently and obviously dangerous: but that is why there are relatively few deaths attributed to it. For the same reason that putting airbags in cars has not really decreased driving death rates (people drive faster and more carelessly) soloing is probably not significantly more dangerous than many other facets of the sport (such as leading, rappelling, and worst of all... driving home). For everyone who dies soloing, I can point to 10 who died leading. Of course leading is more common, but also much "safer".

People accept a certain amount of risk in their lives and then try to milk as much as they can from life within that risk level. As Bachar said, "Soloing is serious business, because you can be seriously dead". But climbers who write off soloists as insane while they go around leading in places like Joshua Tree and Tuolumne are simply whistling past the graveyard, IMO.

CrackAddict

Trad climber

Canoga Park, CA

Aug 19, 2014 - 05:14pm PT

Rumor has it that Derek Hersey's body was found well to the left of the Steck-Salathe.

Don't the upper pitches curve to the left though? Not sure where he fell from, of course.

gonamok

climber

dont make me come over there

Aug 19, 2014 - 05:42pm PT

Then the should the x rated relics/botch job museam pieces be fixed

hahahahahahahaha no bias there, right? Learn to climb and those troutes wont be so scary

NutAgain!

Trad climber

South Pasadena, CA

Aug 19, 2014 - 05:54pm PT

To the extent that anything matters, motivation matters. A person free-soloing as an expression of their joy for life, taking a risk calculated to be within one's abilities and accepting the consequences of potential failure, that is one thing. Perhaps the equation becomes skewed when the motivation includes an effort to earn acceptance or approval, either acceptance of one's self, acceptance from respected peers, or others... these cases become more tragic because a person literally kills him/herself in an effort to be accepted. The tragedy is a person valuing his or her life less than the approval or acceptance of others. It shows how deep our psychic needs can be, that it's not just mushy feeling stuff to be ignored.

Somehow separating out this issue from the "pure" inner pursuit of personal satisfaction, oneness with nature, spirit, etc... somehow teasing out this distinction should be part of this discussion.

Yet another thread to tease out- it is easy to become desensitized to the seriousness of what we pursue as climbers, after hearing/seeing so many stories of radness, or being in the presence of other folks willing to do the same crazy sh!t as you, so it doesn't seem so crazy any more... how does a person maintain their bearings on mortality and our limits when an unlikely number of people do death-defying things and seem to get away with it? Maybe in the go-pro generation it will be statistically harder to survive youthful folly before acquiring enough life perspective and personal awareness to make more careful choices.

ms55401

Trad climber

minneapolis, mn

Aug 19, 2014 - 05:55pm PT

climbers who write off soloists as insane while they go around leading in places like Joshua Tree and Tuolumne are simply whistling past the graveyard

metaphor aside, I have no idea what point is purportedly being made

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay

Aug 19, 2014 - 06:01pm PT

http://news.yahoo.com/climber-proposes-girlfriend-falling-death-yosemite-report-175857266.html

(Reuters) - A veteran outdoorsman fell to his death on a solo climb at Yosemite National Park in California the same day he proposed to his girlfriend, a newspaper reported.

Brad Parker, 36, of Sebastopol, California, and his girlfriend, Jainee Dial, climbed to the top of Cathedral Peak on Saturday and it was on that trip that she accepted his marriage proposal, the Santa Rosa Press Democrat reported.

Later, Parker set out alone to scale Matthes Crest a few miles away, the newspaper said.

Yosemite National Park spokeswoman Kari Cobb said other climbers saw him fall on Saturday evening from the Matthes Crest traverse, which is a jagged rock ridge hundreds of feet in elevation.

Park rangers found his body that night and removed it by helicopter on Sunday, said Cobb, who added that she had no information on whether Parker got engaged before he died.

Parker's father, Bill Parker, told the Press Democrat his son called him after his girlfriend accepted his proposal and told him it was the "happiest day of his life."

Bill Parker said he believes fatigue may have played a role in the death of his son, an experienced climber, after he climbed to Cathedral Peak and went on a run to Matthes Crest.

nita

Social climber

chica de chico, I don't claim to be a daisy.

Aug 19, 2014 - 06:10pm PT

^^
Laine..and Tom Cochrane
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2469530&tn=40

crankster

Trad climber

Aug 19, 2014 - 06:29pm PT

People will climb free solo and people will die. You can't stop the allure, it seems. I'm not passing judgement, if that's what you seek and you accept the risk, then have at it. Just don't romanticize it.

Rankin

Social climber

Greensboro, North Carolina

Aug 19, 2014 - 06:31pm PT

Don't the upper pitches curve to the left though? Not sure where he fell from, of course.

Yes, a fall from high on the SS could bring a climber's body down to the left of the Flying Buttress, which is where CH begins.

Jamesthomsen

Social climber

Mammoth Lakes, California

Aug 19, 2014 - 11:56pm PT

I want to add my first wife to the list. Laurie Thomsen in 1971. My brother was doing a new route on the face of Dade in Little Lakes Valley and she climbed the mountain across from it and fell on easy 5 class on the north face. It took 2 days to find her, she left no note so when she did not return to camp that night we had no idea where to look. A SAR guy found that she had signed a summit register and that limited the search area.
She was 21 but we had been climbing a lot over the previous 4 years and were probably over confident.

kenr99

climber

Aug 20, 2014 - 06:16am PT

Tarbuster wrote:
> In contrast, the free soloist on pure rock is choosing to eschew a rope
> and partner, not as a necessity but as a way of upping the ante

Worthwhile analysis and good try at drawing a line, but there are other reasons to solo on rock:

* just don't like waiting for belays to get set up and somebody else climbing instead of you.

* would have preferred a partner (simul-climbing?) but couldn't find a reliable one for that day, that hour, that route.

* (recognition that climbing with unreliable partners has serious risks of its own, which soloing avoids)

Then there's the question of serious injury versus death:

* (high-ball?) bouldering

Ken

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Aug 20, 2014 - 06:35am PT

The "Gambler" John Roshalt's death at Red Rocks is the one that always sticks in my craw just because it remained an enigma for so many years.

A surprising # of women mentioned throughout this thread. Condolences to you James^^

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Mar 22, 2016 - 09:19am PT

Michael J. Ybarra

no way to not romanticize soloing, seems to me.

jeff constine

Trad climber

Ao Namao

Mar 22, 2016 - 09:44am PT

If you solo and fail you get just what you wanted, talked about on here after the fact.

Fossil climber

Trad climber

Atlin, B. C.

Mar 22, 2016 - 10:10am PT

Naomi Uemera, disappeared on Denali, winter 1984. When I was a ranger there in late 60s he called and asked about a solo ascent. At the time, it was against park regs, which I had to tell him. Out of curiosity I asked how he had planned to prevent crevasse falls. He said that he would carry a pole under his arm. How long, I asked. One meter, he said. Which suggested he hadn't quite got the picture.

Apparently he was carrying bamboo poles on the solo when he disappeared, but I have no other details.

Don Paul

Big Wall climber

Denver CO

Mar 22, 2016 - 10:36am PT

Why do people solo? First reason is probably that you want to go climbing and don't have a partner. But no one may have told you that soloing is addictive. Base jumpers talk about addiction too. Risking your life and cutting it close is one of the most intense experiences you can have. Some people describe it in spiritual terms. I'm sure glad I don't do it anymore.

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Mar 22, 2016 - 11:12am PT

First reason is probably that you want to go climbing and don't have a partner

Never in my life have I ever free-soloed for lack of a partner, and I've never known anyone who free solos because they can't find a partner.
I used to free solo because I wanted to free solo.

Impaler

Social climber

Oakland

Mar 22, 2016 - 11:32am PT

Well, I used to free solo because I didn't have a partner. I haven't done anything serious (harder than 5.7) in many years now simply because I always have a partner to climb with and I realized that I can just go bouldering. I believe Honnold wrote the same thing about starting to solo - lack of partner and being too shy to ask random people.

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Mar 22, 2016 - 12:11pm PT

Well that's interesting

martygarrison

Trad climber

Washington DC

Mar 22, 2016 - 03:49pm PT

I soloed some, sometimes for training on 5.10 or even 11 I had totally wired. Once I soloed the East Face of Whitney onsite which seemed pretty safe. But one time I decided to solo the Nutcracker. I got really scared on the traverse down low and was pretty jittery the whole rest of the way. Not sure I ever did much after that.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Mar 22, 2016 - 05:18pm PT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naomi_Uemura
Details on when Naomi Uemura disappeared on the descent, after making a solo winter ascent of Denali (Feb 1984).
He had left the bamboo crevasse poles back at 9500', but it's not known if he fell in a crevasse or was blown off by high winds, etc.

clinker

Trad climber

Santa Cruz, California

Mar 22, 2016 - 05:23pm PT

I believe Honnold wrote the same thing about starting to solo - lack of partner and being too shy to ask random people.

Shy?

Glad he is over that.

clifff

Mountain climber

golden, rollin hills of California

Mar 22, 2016 - 06:08pm PT

Billions free solo stairs all the time. Many die.

"National Safety Council.

Over 1 Million injuries occur each year as the result of stairway falls.
Staircase and stairway accidents constitute the second leading cause of accidental injury, second only to motor vehicle accidents.
Each year, there are 12,000 stairway accident deaths. "

http://www.attorneywdkickham.com/stairway-staircase-accidents.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=stairs+deaths&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://www.google.com/search?q=stairs+of+death+inca+trail&revid=1692327265&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiMiL39n9XLAhVDVz4KHXFOB4oQ1QIImQEoBQ&biw=1600&bih=828

http://www.google.com/search?q=stairs+deaths+high+heels&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

http://www.ssqq.com/archive/vinlin27d.htm

edit: your skill level and judgement determine your safety regardless of the difficulty of the terrain or the means used. good judgement means you'll only do those things that are within your risk limits, whether it's roped climbing or free soloing or climbing stairs.

Clint Cummins

Trad climber

SF Bay area, CA

Mar 22, 2016 - 06:11pm PT

You can ignore stairs if you simply define free solo as climbing pitches rated 5th class, with no rope or way to clip gear.

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Mar 22, 2016 - 06:34pm PT

I booked a "scrambling" trip to the Wadi Rum a few years ago. Turns out the Bedouin have been "scrambling" for thousands of years.
Bedouin "scrambling" is kinda like Norman Clyde class 4.
I just resigned myself to the fact that I was going to die free-soloing in Jordan, and had myself a good time.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Mar 22, 2016 - 07:35pm PT

Why do people solo? First reason is probably that you want to go climbing and don't have a partner.

Yeah, count me as another where that has never been a relevant factor. My soloing has always been either a) just felt it in some overwhelming way, or b) don't want to bother with the rope on a pitch while rope-soloing. The latter is most often the case for me given about 75% of my climbing is multi-pitch, free rope-soloing. Sometimes in that context it's just more pleasant to solo a pitch though those are usually easier pitches these days.

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Mar 23, 2016 - 01:08am PT

I was told by a better climber that I should solo Cathedral Peak in Tuolumne, because it was only 5.6. I did not like it. The rain, even in the summer, can roll in suddenly. I took a short piece of 9mm, which I used when I got off-route and onto a 5.8 section.

I never free soloed again. I didn't see the point in taking the unnecessary risk. A goddamn swallow could swoop past you, or hit you, and cause a fall.

If Alex Honnold can free solo Freerider, good for him. I would not want to watch, or even see a video after the fact. I've heard stories of Walt Shipley sewing-machining his way up very difficult solos, and just shake my head.

Billions free solo stairs all the time. Many die.

I went up the stairs of the Chichen Itza pyramid about ten years ago. There were alot of people wandering around the Mayan ruins that day, but I only remember seeing one other person go up the stairs.

Coming down required facing the steps, with hands on the rock. There was basically no way to face out, and walk down like normal.

That stairway has narrow treads. It is steep, long and scary.

They should have had a security guard, or other Gumby filter at the base. I was amazed that there was no control, at all, when I was there.

Anybody could go right up, and then find out, the hard way, that coming down is more difficult.

I think the stairs are now closed to the public, probably because so many people have fallen.

Blakey

Trad climber

Sierra Vista

Mar 23, 2016 - 02:25am PT

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