WBraun. Wise man? Or...........of ST?

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mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 17, 2010 - 12:15am PT
...... wiseguy, jerk, a$$hole? This ought to ruffle some feathers. If not get me tarred and feathered.

Can't say I know him in person. Just his ST persona.

Yes, he can really climb, and is a saver of lives. And he knows his Hindu theology.

But is he not one of the most condescending voices on this site?

It seems the climbers of his era deify him. (Coz's story "Crazy Eyes" in Alpinist 28 is a great example)(a good read). No matter what he says. When he speaks he is very often insulting, and his legion of hero worshippers always pat him on the back when he does. They are all his 'yes men'. He is human too, and not immune to ego inflation.

One thing I can't forget, long ago when I was still lurking and not posting, is when he used the term 'Japs', referring to Japanese people. Kind of like a modern day white man calling a black man 'colored'. Not cool these days.

For such a smart guy his ignorance and insensitivity is glaring.

Since this seems to be the time of the season of the 'whipping post'..........
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfwFpRnOeGg

euro-brief-guy

Boulder climber
Auburn, ca
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:19am PT
Jeez....now Werner?!!!

No one is safe.

Ho Mon!! King size momma!!!
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:20am PT
like any carbon chain,
he's venerable to misarrangement.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:23am PT
Werner seems to have it together more than most on this site.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:24am PT
skipt you boast bravery from your padded seat gawking at your screen whom you adore as your mock fan.

the o.p. is not stupid. im sure of it based upon his / her organization of thoughts, concepts, and words. your generalized accusation (two c's skipt) based on your ignorant judgement fits right into your republican boots.

quit posting while drunk. you're not too amiable (means sociable).
David Wilson

climber
CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:25am PT
werner is not human and speaks with tongue of ancients. quiet mountain dog.....respect....
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:26am PT
Werner is a straight shooter, if you can't handle it, then you must be........Canadian?
Seriously dude, there is a unwritten law that you just violated. DON'T F*#K WITH THE STONEMASTERS!
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:27am PT
so anyway, i'm going climbing for three days this weekend. psyched!
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:27am PT
Werner= man, wise man.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:28am PT
(not) knowing werner,
he would welcome the inquiry.
for he is developed in his ways, and simple prodding does nothing to upset his position, except maybe strengthen it.
nature

climber
Tucson, AZ
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:28am PT
THIS




PLUS THIS




LEADS US TO THIS.



Fletch and I make a great team...
David Wilson

climber
CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:30am PT
werner is also a guy who's had to recover bloated bodies, aka "bloaters", from yosemite rivers while uniformed rangers yelled questionable directives from the bank.....quiet mountain dog...respect.....
Off White

climber
Tenino, WA
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:31am PT
Werner's okay, but I'm starting to like this Norwegian guy, though that could just be the common genetic ancestry talking.
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:33am PT
mountain dog only has 117 posts.

plus, this thread is totally invalid without pics.

i call dab.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:36am PT
1096. Or maybe a 5150.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:38am PT
where's that confounded bridge?
bvb

Social climber
flagstaff arizona
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:40am PT
5150. heh. i got that.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:40am PT
I will not remove this post since I don't want people to not know why I am writing the following edit. Mountain Dog... My SINCERE apologies! You are right... I am tired and got you mixed up with someone else. So very sorry.

(Original post (which is crap!) Mountain Dog comes back to offer opinion on someone he has not met. Just like he did of Bridwell. I think someone has a jealousy issue.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:42am PT
I'm not sure if the old Hindu likes me or not, but my personal impression of him is ROCK SOLID. The dude has legacy, doesn't brag, just does his thing.

Probably one of the crankiest, most honest f*#kers here. And that's why I love the dude. Plus, he saves peoples lives...

Jesus loves The Werner. Haha!
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 12:43am PT
IHP, Get your story straight, I've met Bridwell and the only opinion I've ever posted about him is that he is PROUD.
I too know that Werner is a good man. Just saying his ST personality comes off as harsh. I too know he can take it like a man and is probably laughing too. But, I must say I also laugh at his Hero Worshippers.
BeeHay

Trad climber
San Diego CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:46am PT
We don't "deify" him, we like and respect him. He's no God, just a good guy.

For any Baby Boomer who grew up with World War II parents, "Japs" was the PC thing to say, they were being generous. That generation, justifiably, had a very bad opinion of that country, and it's people.

Study a little history. The Geneva Convention was never translated into Japenese, in those days.

Brad Huys
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:47am PT

Nature, I'm gunna bump your seeds, man. . .


hee hee hee. ..

Werner, well he's da MAN!!!!!!!
YESSSIIRRREEEEEEE~!!!!!!!
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:49am PT
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:53am PT

Guido, can I jump on your boat?????


I'm SKEERED!!!!
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:54am PT
yikes, remember you mess with one stonemaster, you gonna mess with all of the stonemasters. . .that's how we roll. . .

edit, no we don't kick dogs
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:56am PT
maybe they'll be multiple dust clouds sproutin up at the facelift.

yahoo.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 12:58am PT
Yes Dean, I know what I did. But it was time. Thank you sir, may I have another?
go-B

climber
This side of Heaven
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:59am PT
Not funny!
guido

Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:02am PT
Actually all this is a bit out of synch-Werner is no longer with SAR and has taken over the family business. Keep on truckin momma..............
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:06am PT
Mdog- you are a follower, a soul with no direction. A Pointless public attack on a man whom you have never met is as generic as your life. Way to follow suit with this thread you Poofter.

You couldn't have started a better "Appreciation" thread!


Mucci



bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:07am PT
yikes, remember you mess with one stonemaster, you gonna mess with all of the stonemasters. . .

Yeah, I don't know why this came about. Werner may appear to be 'cranky', but he's just telling you the way it is...man.

Get over it. You people are way too sensitive to honest, personal criticism. And if you were wise, you'd at least give pause to Werner's words, and listen to what he's trying to tell you.

He ain't arrogant or proud. He knows that, but he is held in high regard amongst climbers for a f*#king reason. He climbs routes and saves people who can't climb routes.

What more do ya need???? F*#k!

Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:07am PT
skipt,
mountain dog was referring to Jim Bridwell with the 'Proud' compliment.
it's clearly stated and implied within the context of dialogue.
come on. read and digest before you post. you are upsetting your own (err...the entire republican party's) credibility.
C4/1971

Trad climber
Depends on the day...
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:07am PT
Werner is solid and has been since the early seventies. Enough said....
miss.julienne

climber
Capitola, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:09am PT
Who cares, I watched him fly up Outer Limits way better that I did so....
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 01:16am PT
Mucci, you make no sense. Can't you see by this I follow no one. I am a lone wolf. The true followers are sprouting up like grass. Skipt is a good example.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:17am PT
PLease notice that I retract my above rebuke of MD. So very sorry to have posted that. My apologies. I was tired and got him confused with someone else who recently said shite about the Bird. It has been a LONG day/week... Can't wait until Sunday... I am Ditch bound!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:20am PT
You're gonna be in Ze Valley, Simon?
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
mun jae upso yo
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:23am PT
Werner is my friend.

Always been good to me.
dirtbag

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:25am PT
Haven't we had enough FU threads lately?
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 01:29am PT
Skipt, my explanation was in my opening post. You must be one of his 'legion'. As Werner is fond of saying himself. You are a fool.
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:30am PT
Struck a nerve on the puppy did I?

You would not have posted this without the other B.S. personal attack threads leading the way.

YOu sackless poofter.

Generic.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:33am PT
bluering... yep, that is the truth. Staying in Wawona (best friend is the fire captain... what can I say, beds, warmth fireplace, stove, fridge... but will be driving into the VAlley for fun/photos/etc. Also going south to Sequoia and anywhere else the roads will let us.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:34am PT
A werner braun whipping post?


Geez, now were reaching.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 01:35am PT
Mucci, You are way too weak to strike a nerve with me. And it surely takes a large sack to say what I did. Get a clue.

C'mon Skipt and Mucci, Let someone smart respond.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:35am PT
I may come buy and say hey, Simon. Good for you on gettin' into the 'zone'.

Have fun!!!
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
mun jae upso yo
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:36am PT
Maybe not, Mr. Davis.
They seem distracted.......Hmmm.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:37am PT
md, mucci has a lot of sack....check his posts.

just sayin'. And he is a bud of mine so I will speak for him. You're out of line, dude.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The beckoning silence
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:03am PT
Nature:

"We're gonna need a bigger popcorn cart!"

karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:08am PT
Werners very helpful here. Almost anything yosemite related he's the 1st to reply with good info. He did suggest once that I have "weak spirit", and I felt insulted at first. But then when I thought about it, I was a weak spirit at that moment, that's all. Sometimes I have more spirit than one body can contain. Other times I feel withered and withdrawn. Like the grasses renewed each year only to die off and turn brown. This lead me to ponder the cyclical nature of all things. I became aware that all moments are just moments, and with rest comes renewal. Thanks Mr Braun.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:24am PT
He did suggest once that I have "weak spirit", and I felt insulted at first. But then when I thought about it, I was a weak spirit at that moment, that's all. Sometimes I have more spirit than one body can contain. Other times I feel withered and withdrawn. Like the grasses renewed each year only to die off and turn brown. This lead me to ponder the cyclical nature of all things. I became aware that all moments are just moments, and with rest comes renewal. Thanks Mr Braun.

Yep. Werner.....crazy-wise, but wise all-the-same.

I bet this burns Karl too.

Karl?
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:32am PT
Werner=Wise and Kind...
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:46am PT
Werner is rad...PC police go f*#k yourself...

kev
apogee

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:59am PT
Has anyone seen the bridge?
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:03am PT
Another whipping post thread? ......another testosterone driven express train bound for oblivion.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:12am PT
Jennie and kev should either mate or start more threads.....

just an observation....
KitKat

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:29am PT
How F#@$ing DARE you post such a rude thing about Werner? Who the F are you? Back off buddy! Hope you never need a rescue....
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 03:31am PT
Kitty Kat, Thanks for reenforcing my point.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The beckoning silence
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:32am PT
I used to have a problem with Werner, but that was 367,987 lives ago for him, 143,239 for me. We worked through it and got over it.

This life? No problem whatsoever. The man has wit, and is wonderfully succinct and instructively provocative. Never met him in person, but I don't need that to know he has a good heart.

Plus, he knows how to handle a boombox while wearing tube socks... a skill few appreciate anymore.

Eric
neebee

Social climber
calif/texas
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:41am PT
hey there say, all... werner has always been kind to me here at supertopo... don't know him in person, but i would expect him to also be
kind, should i meet him one day...

well, god bless to all, just had to share that, as it is proper, when one has been kind, to mention it...

he's been very humble about a very hard job, as well...
and not a pleasant job, at that...

*
(only post for tonight, need to leave soon)
see you all monday, folks,
by the good lord's grace, as always...
:)


edit:
very strange when folks start a thread like this...
seems the best thing to do, is to let werner know
that we're in his corner, since he's been there for many of us..

say, most likely if folks would just talk and visit a bit,
around the ol' campfires, and share a bit, perhaps things
would smooth out, and one would find a new friend, you never know... :)
god bless...
KitKat

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:45am PT
I come on this site occasionally to see what's going with CLIMBING. All I see is a bunch of slander. Go back to your armchairs and cubicles people- I'm going CLIMBING!

and by the way Mountain Dog- don't call me Kitty Kat... Mountain dogs don't stand a chance against mountain lions...
KitKat

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:53am PT
Someday this Yosemite newbie is gonna need a rescue...
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 03:56am PT
O.K. Pussy Cat.

Yawn.
KitKat

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:58am PT
GO back to your dog bed- I don't think you even climb.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 04:01am PT
When Skipt? After you polish Werners boots?
KitKat

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 04:10am PT
And this DOG obviously has no respect for women... nor does he have any respect for a stone master like Werner... nor has he EVER been to Yosemite... is there a "delete this person" button?
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 04:13am PT
Yawn.

Yawn. Yawn.
KitKat

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 04:20am PT
I vote for the "delete this person" button. Dude has no respect...
Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Mar 17, 2010 - 04:31am PT
I'd like some popcorn now...

a couple observations, though first.

a) I don't really know WB butt spent plenty of time in the Valley and appreciate who he is and what he has done-thanks Werner for all your help to the ones needing it over the years and to your contributions on ST

b) Mountain Dog brings up some good points if you read carefully and between the lines. The dude has taken responsibility for his comments that's more than many do around here...

c) Skipt and KitKat, I think Werner can take care of himself. If he feels a need to whack MD in the future I'm sure he can handle it. Seems to me from my armchair that 1 response to MD about your (and my) feelings is/was probably enough

d)some threads just need to drift away...

Cheers,
DD
KitKat

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 04:39am PT
Are any of you climbing tomorrow??? I AM! G'nite!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 17, 2010 - 04:45am PT
Jeepers,

Awoken by my own loud fart, I just got out of bed and making my way to a tall glass of water,
I heard all this grumbling coming from the hibernating laptop here.


Well, yes.
Werner can be a bit coarse, gruff, or grumpy here online.
(And a gal from Yos once scolded me thusly: "All you guys worship Werner").



I sometimes guess it is meant (or see that it acts) as a Zen Katsu:


Katsu (Japanese: 喝; Cantonese: hot3 (help·info), Pinyin: hè, Wade-Giles: ho) is a type of shout that is used in Chán and Zen Buddhism to give expression to one's own enlightened state (Japanese: satori) and/or to induce another person to move beyond rationality and logic and, potentially, achieve an initial enlightenment experience.[1] The shout is also sometimes used in the East Asian martial arts for a variety of purposes; in this context, katsu is very similar to the shout kiai.[2]

The word in Chinese means literally "to yell"[3] or "to shout",[4] and in Japanese has also developed the meaning of "to browbeat",[5] "to scold", and "hoarse".[6] However, in the context of Chan and Zen practice, the word is not generally used in its literal meaning(s), but rather—much as with the martial arts shout of kiai—as fundamentally a means of focusing energy. When the Chan and Zen practice of the katsu first emerged in Jiangxi province in the south of Tang dynasty China in the 8th century CE, the word was pronounced roughly as /xat/,[7] a pronunciation that is largely preserved[8] in the Japanese on'yomi ("Sino-Japanese") reading of the character as [katsɯ] or [katsɯ̥], as well as in Cantonese and Minnan Chinese.[9]

The katsu shout, insofar as it represents a kind of verbal harshness and even violence, can be considered a part of the Mahāyāna Buddhist doctrine of "skill-in-means" (Sanskrit: upāya-kauśalya), which essentially teaches that even an action or practice which seems to violate Buddhist moral guidelines—in this case, the Noble Eightfold Path's injunction against "abusive speech"[10]—is permissible, and even desirable, so long as it is done with the aim of ultimately putting an end to suffering and introducing others to the dharma, or teachings of Buddhism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katsu_(Zen);




Or perhaps Werner is just a bit blunt, if not vociferously bored, from time to time.

Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Mar 17, 2010 - 05:25am PT
"We wait to hear your wisdom"

Actually, I wait to hear Werner's...his would be more interesting...

Tarman- you are one funny dude! Thanks for the laugh.

Cheers,
DD
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
Mar 17, 2010 - 05:45am PT
I've known Werner over many years and have always found him sincere and non-confrontational, at least in my opinion. I don't know what was said that got people so up in arms, but it does seem a bit excessive to try and post a thread that tries to defame him...
Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:28am PT
Skipt, I don't feel like I need to get in a back and forth with you.

I was making observations as stated that's all...

Personally, I think MD's points could have (should have) been made leaving WB (or anyone else for that matter) out of it. Guess I should have included that observation as well...

And wisdom (to me) is a result of thoughtful reflection based on observation and experience.

If you want more than that-sorry you got the wrong dog.

Cheers,
DD

Bargainhunter

Mountain climber
Central California
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:15am PT
Werner tells it like it is, bro.

His decades of accomplishments speak for themselves and command respect.

This is a social climbing forum. Sometimes people post comments flippantly. Sometimes they are provocative or contrarian. Sometimes the posts present only a sliver of the poster's underlying personality.

Get something from it, or move on.

Peace.
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:19am PT
geez skipt,
you sure throw alotta shite.

why all the name calling?
you really present yourself as insecure and wobbly.
skipt, you have wannabe brawn.


werner is braun.
Gary

climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Mar 17, 2010 - 08:56am PT
Mountain Dog:
To be honest, I think all the mudslinging and insults on this site detracts from this great CLIMBING FORUM.

So you started this thread in response?
Norwegian

Trad climber
Placerville, California
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:14am PT
werner will casually enter the room,
notice that something is amiss.
blink twice, surrender himself to the knowledge
that he has earned, and process all this.

then he'll utter some simple, yet profound coclusion and walk away into a sunlight meadow.
and be werner.
Peter Haan

Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:04am PT




WERNER AND THE LUG-WRENCH CHRISTIANS

WERNER: THE FOURTH MANIFESTATION
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:14am PT
mountain dog wrote:

I started this to bring that to peoples attention, more than bag on Werner personaly. I have no one here to back me up and I don't care. Werner has most of this whole site to back him up. I knew I would be vilified tonight. I don't care. But I hope I made some people think.

And so you have, my thoughts are why hang around a forum where people use character assassination to gain attention. The fact is you do care, you are the center of attention, and at the expense of Werner.

Werner is someone I know in real life, and I make it a point to meet up with him when I am in the Valley. It doesn't really matter what the subject of discussion is, those discussions never fail to leave me with something to think about, and the memories of them linger with the feelings of goodwill and friendship.

When and if we ever meet up mountain dog we will go through the tedious process, no doubt, of you informing me of you avatar identity, at which time I will recall this post as a craven, attention getting act.
dktem

Trad climber
Temecula
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:32am PT
How F#@$ing DARE you post such a rude thing about Werner? Who the F are you? Back off buddy! Hope you never need a rescue....


That last sentence is more insulting to Werner than anything else on this thread.



pc

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:41am PT
What DMT said.

The Taco circle is being jerked a lot these days...

Looks like a nice day out today. I'm going bouldering.

pc
reddirt

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:44am PT
I think MD has unwisely conflated Werner admirers (esp the reactive/vocal ones, this thread excluded due to the inflammatory title) w/ the (Astro)man himself.



cintune

climber
the Moon and Antarctica
Mar 17, 2010 - 11:34am PT
Two overlapping issues at play here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship
See also:
* Friendship network
* Human behavior
* Male bonding
* Mentoring
* Philosophy
* Relational care
* Social networking
* Social norm
* Social psychology
* Sociology
* Subculture
* Social contact


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_cult
See also:
* Demigod
* Culture hero
* Epic hero
* Imperial cult (Ancient Rome)
* Bodhisattva
* Deification


Due to some very specific differences of opinion, Werner has called me a retard and an unworthy opponent, and I've called him a sacred cow, but since we don't really know one another, it's not personal, and probably never will be. Definitely a litmus test for defining the in-crowd and the permanent outsiders on this forum, though.
atchafalaya

climber
Babylon
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:18pm PT
Mt Dog, welcome to supertopo. Everyone says stupid sh#t here at some time during their stay. Its part of the charm of this place.

Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:18pm PT
I like the real Werner, and I feel bad for him sometimes b/c many of you won't let him be real here. His Supertopo avatar has been sentenced by many to exist in a virtual glass case.

I don't know how he feels about it though.
Binks

Social climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:29pm PT
My first post on the Taco was to troll Werner (it was just too tempting not to when I saw an opening with the then raging Chongo Controversy). But I love the guy, I do think he is an actual wise and heroic man.

Original troll here:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/71952/The_Real_Reason_Behind_Chongos_Eviction
bluNgoldhornet6

Big Wall climber
Tampa, Fl
Mar 17, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
Good ol' Werner!
lol actually this is funny because i wanted to post a similar thread about the guy. Now i have never met him nor do i want to meet him other than to drink a beer after an awesome El Cap ascent and shake the mans hand.

I know he is well respected by everyone here in the ST forum and after careful consideration and reading about the guy i have much respect for him as well. Sure he may always leave some sort of smartass comment on our thread, but atleast one of the well known and well respected O.G's of climbing is actually making the attempt to talk with us and share his opinion unlike some who only pop up for publicty on a new book they wrote.
Look at Werners posts the guy has been on here since the begining and look at the other well Known climbers and see their posts.
I dont think Wrener even made a post on this thread because that is the kind of guy he is or what i get from him. I think he is a pretty good guy and i would like to meet him in the Valley just never rescued by him.
Cheers to Werner!!!!
Matt
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:04pm PT

I'm on Ed H's, L's and millions of others that back Werner's side.

He's da MAN!!!!

He stays above the fray, chasin' #46 with his twinkies!!!!
jstan

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:09pm PT
Recent behavior here is frankly, what's the word?

I can't think of a word.

I'll say this about Werner from the several times I have talked with him.

Wanting attention is a fairly common human failing.

Werner does not suffer from this malady.
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:10pm PT
Who is Werner Braun?
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:13pm PT
Seriously dude, there is a unwritten law that you just violated. DON'T F*#K WITH THE STONEMASTERS!

I sure hope to hell that was written tongue in cheek.

rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:14pm PT
I ran out of popcorn and had to post. Here is what I see in this thread:

OP: "No one ever seems to complain about the insults from the guy who always says things that sound like ancient Chinese proverbs."

Responses:

"I'll bet you don't even climb."

"Only men insult people and women are all perfect."

"You must be a democrat."

"That guy finds dead bodies so you are not allowed to say bad things about him."

OMFG this is funny stuff.

Dave
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:22pm PT
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4GGLR_enUS311US311&q=werner+braun+climb&start=0&sa=N
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:47pm PT
It's a positive thing for wise men like Werner to face a challenge every once in awhile, so show what they are really made of. If everyone is always bowing and scraping, it's not good for anyone's character, and we never really know how such a man responds to a challenge.

Fact is, Werner doe respond abrasively quite frequently. The question is, "Is this a problem?" If Werner is just responding to what is posted, and not harboring a permanent judgement against the poster, then perhaps it's just being really honest, without feeling the need to posture.

I get the feeling Werner doesn't harbor ill-will to anyone and so what feels harsh from him can transform to good vibes as soon as the BS stops.

Does Werner's idea of what is BS always correspond to everybody else's? Maybe not. Maybe it's a guy thing, but Werner doesn't seem to mind some confrontational straight talk, so the OP is right in line with Werner's karma (since I don't think the OP harbor's ill will toward him either)

Much Love and good vibes to the Werner!

Karl
WBraun

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 01:57pm PT
To a rumor there generally is some truth to it.

mountain dog, some of my posts in the controversial threads especially the religious threads do have the "look" of insult and condescending ultimately due to misunderstanding of the real intent. Base 104 also sees it that way.

This is a normal human reaction. I can not be politically correct and sterile.

Sometimes I'll post to incite just to get the subject matter going more deeper to bring out those who are sitting back to draw them out.

That backfires a lot of times. LOL

But ultimately ....... all this will too pass





L

climber
Yeah it's a furball...I TOLD you I was a cat!
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:03pm PT
Come and have fun on the Taco!



mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 02:08pm PT
Well said Karl, Thanks to you and a few others for bringing some intelligence back to this.

In all honesty I did not consciously do this to bring attention to myself. Subconsciously maybe. I don't know.

You all probably want to know my real name. I feel if I exposed myself now I would literally have a lynch mob at my doorstep. So for this thread I will be Lee Harvey Oswald. Which one/ones here are Jack Ruby? Oh,..........I think I know already. Werner will know my real name this season when I apologize to him in person.

Peace to you all. I mean that sincerely.
WBraun

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:18pm PT
Mountain dog

I didn't find anything you said in this thread offensive at all.

You just expressed how you felt.

I also did not see anywhere where you were trying to draw attention to yourself.

I wasn't the least bit fazed. Reactions here on this forum are the norm especially if one engages enough here.

I don't even feel you need to apologize for anything you said.

A huge High Five to you (mountain dog) and everyone else included ......
L

climber
Yeah it's a furball...I TOLD you I was a cat!
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:24pm PT
jeeeez Mountain Dog...don't start getting all morose on us!

Didn't you see my photo post? C'mom, laugh damnit, laugh!

If Werner actually had a problem with your thread...he probably wouldn't be Werner now, would he?

And you were not being malicious--that's fer sure. So lighten up, laugh...pull out some more dirty undies--whatever. Don't take it all so seriously.


We baboons sure are havin' a good time here! ;-)
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:32pm PT
those baboons give me the the creeps, Jay-firemonkey-bro
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:45pm PT

Is youse callin' me a BABOON??????


REALLY???????


oh well, off to JDF's cave.
i'm goin' hunting. . .
Anastasia

Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
Mar 17, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
People need to stop reflecting their problems on others and get back to working on themselves. It will be more productive, will actually have positive results, etc.

As for Werner, I completely trust him. That says it all...
AFS
philo

Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:30pm PT
Werner is just a man, a good man. He has opinions, strengths and weaknesses as do all of us. He has my respect.
L

climber
Yeah it's a furball...I TOLD you I was a cat!
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:39pm PT
YeeHa Dingus!

I'm thinkin' yous un Jethro was twins sepurated at berth. And that's a countryfolk compleeement fer sure!

You're funny as heck and always tryin' ta help...jes like my brother.

An yer hair...sorta........looks........well, kinda alike. Is yers still green? ;-)
hooblie

climber
from where the anecdotes roam
Mar 17, 2010 - 03:49pm PT
there might be other communities out in cyber space where made up avatars mingle, posture and trump.
it's all a pittance because like they say, "nobody knows you're a dog."

this place is a little different. there has been plenty of brawny place finding that has gone on in stark and airy places.
the sharing has been visceral, and the ties that bind this family are not made up.

in the case of many here the jostling is settled, even if the fabric comes with lumps. the texture of werner's being,
and expression done his way is something that we hold dear, though our uptake may differ.

the fact that he has delivered so many of our brothers to safe keeping is peripheral to the person whose voice we hear,
and regard actually. in an actual family, we can take it straight no chaser.

four decades of us have pondered,
settle in and have a listen
tom woods

Gym climber
Bishop, CA
Mar 17, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
Mtn Dog-

Your point might be better taken with a name attached.

Werner is Werner. When he posts, he posts as Werner, because that's who he is. Those who know him, like him. Many that don't, do too. If you don't, that's okay. I'm sure Werner will be fine.



jstan

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 04:44pm PT
Hooblie's a damn poet.
Chief

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 06:02pm PT
I have a deep respect for Werner that could easily be mistaken for hero worship. Watching him, Dale, Ron, John, Yabo and the rest of the boys bouldering behind Camp 4 back in 76 redefined climbing and life for that matter.
Those guys got used to having us around after a while and Werner was always keen on the guitar thing. I was at the Deli talking to Werner once and mentioned I hadn't done the Crucifix yet and that it was high on my hit list. He said he'd be keen to go up there and when I asked when, he pretty much said "right now". I'll always regret not taking him up on that one.

Thanks for the invite Werner!
Patrick Sawyer

climber
Originally California now Ireland
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
BES1'st, he also invented the rocket.
steveA

Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
Mar 17, 2010 - 07:18pm PT
Hey Werner,
I only started posting here about a week ago about my solo of the Prow-40 years ago. I think this would be a good time to thank you for helping my son out a few years ago, when after climbing El Cap, he came down to find his car trashed by a bear. He sought you out and you helped him bend the door back in place. He drove all the way back to the East Coast, with the door taped up with duct tape. Believe it or not-I was planning to start an Appreciation thread on the good work you; John Dill and the Yosar team do year in and out, with probably very little thanks. Your the Best! Steve Arsenault
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:22pm PT
- JStan said:

"Hooblie's a damn poet."

I too, very often enjoy his penetrating viewpoint and particular style of conveyance.
Nice Hooblie!


---------------------------------------------



Not that it really matters in the end how things come out in TacoLand ...
It is after all an uninhibited rough and ready venue, even if things have gotten a bit out of hand of late, by our standards.
But my approach is: investigate, don’t denigrate.

When things get rough here, in the back and forth of, um, … discourse, it’s easy to take something the wrong way.
My policy is to just let it slide awhile, certainly overnight: Chinese businessmen say “sleep on the deal before responding” or some such.

I look into what part of it (a perceived slight) is me and what part is intentional from the other.
I get curious, I investigate what I put out there, invariably if I’m still miffed, I consider two tacts:

1 - I just let it roll on under me like a swell, up and over and back into the flow without a trace.
'Keeps me doing what I do best, which is creating positive and engaging content.

2 - I find a way to give the opponent a chance to see their slight in more humorous light than may have been intended;
Thereby turning a laugh upon seemingly unfertile ground.

Often the second course of action is a face-saver for both involved.
And many times, it’s the correct response anyhow, because in the Internet, people joke and are quite easily misperceived.


Then there’s a 3rd, more inquisitive tact.

To Mountain dog and his “interest” as stated in the first post.
Essentially, not everybody sugarcoats their statements, which was the point of interest concerning Werner.

My approach would be, rather than calling somebody out in that regard, to ask them what they are up to, as in genuinely taking an interest in perplexing behavior. Investigate, don’t denigrate, lead with curiosity, even when calling somebody on their shiit!

You often get better answers that way and gain a richer understanding.
Dog fights are sort of entertaining (not really) and they don’t yield much besides carnage.


Let’s face it; Werner’s style is a curiosity and it does elicit introspection ...


---------------------------------------------------------




Glad to see this thread turn the corner.
Man I’d love to see a good catalog of Werner’s more prolific Katsu
Even out of context it’d be a riot I’m sure!


Here’s my current offering, needs no introduction and no further explanation!

From:

Age-old question: how far will technique take you?
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1119494&tn=0&mr=0



Werner responds:

“This a head game in your head.

By the time you've figured it out you'll be an old man with no climb or country left ......”
PhilG

Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:57pm PT
OK, OK, OK

You want MY opinion....

After all I've known him longer then most of the "supertopoians" have been alive

OK, I'll offer a comment

Here's my 1000 word opinion:



quite simply, he'll always be family.
tolman_paul

Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
Mar 17, 2010 - 09:59pm PT
The character of a man is shown not by how he handles praise, but how he responds to criticism.
Delhi Dog

Trad climber
Good Question...
Mar 17, 2010 - 10:06pm PT
As stated somewhere above, I said Werner's response would be more interesting than mine.
Sometimes I think we take ourselves and others too seriously and literally.
Oh well...we is human still...

Cheers,
DD

edit: those are wise words Tolman...
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Mar 17, 2010 - 11:12pm PT
Take away the ropes and shoes and most of us become nobody......Hail to werner!
jstan

climber
Mar 17, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
Mountain Dog assumed I was referring to a need he has for attention. That could not have been my intention as I have not seen enough if his stuff to make that judgement.

What was I doing?

People by nature tend to resist suggestions when aimed directly at them. Only very rarely does the direct approach do good. We have vast amounts of data here showing us this. So I often opt for rail shots, not directed at anyone in particular, seemingly. People are very perceptive. There is a nonvanishing chance the person who can wear that shoe will, in a moment of introspection, come on what was written. They may decide to try the shoe on. This way it is their choice.

As long as the statement has validity - no harm is done.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 17, 2010 - 11:23pm PT

jstan, I must have overlooked your earlier comment. My reply to seeking attention was mostly in response to Ed Hartouni's comments.

Maybe I read your comments subliminally.
ADK

climber
truckee
Mar 18, 2010 - 12:11am PT
Anonymity comes in many forms.
Wayno

Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
Mar 18, 2010 - 12:23am PT
Werner approaches the ineffable. If you have ever met the man, you can't help but respect him.
Mimi

climber
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:04am PT
I used to get really fired up when someone would flame on WB. Then I began to laugh. The mere idea that he would be bothered. His satirical responses to inane posts-all totally tongue and cheek. This brings complaint?
Captain...or Skully

Social climber
mun jae upso yo
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:09am PT
Well, maybe he could've shared that rocket idea sooner.
WooHoo!
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:21am PT
No way Mimi.
He's mean and he's nasty.
Plain and simple.

Get mad.
real Real REAL mad.

Maybe start your own thread about it!
I can help elaborate, 'cud kick out some goofy photos to help prove it.
Mimi

climber
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:32am PT
This is an interesting phase for the ST. All this hostility. Must be the economic downturn or the latest end of the world coming.

Ya might know Werner would get caught up in it. You're right, Roy. He's so mean to people. I too have a couple pics. Mountain of evidence.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:42am PT
He has a little list...
They never will be missed...

An ordinary movie villain, in Werner's shoes, would inadvertently not rescue those who foolishly dissed him.

A good movie villain, in Werner's shoes, would rescue those who've dissed him, but there'd be an 'accident' during the rescue which the victim dramatically wouldn't survive. (Picture Eiger Sanction.)

Werner, on the other hand, would rescue the guy at risk of life and limb, employ his deadpan humour to distract the victim, visit him in hospital afterward - and smile.

Guess which has more reincarnations to go?
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:51am PT
Bitchin'
you two are SO on.

Let's make it a Western.
I'll handle wardrobe of course.

It'll be a tasty melange of the good ones.

Werner can play Yul Brynner's parts.
Mimi, you can play Cat Ballou.
Anders, any and all things Lee Marvin.
Mimi

climber
Mar 18, 2010 - 01:53am PT
I dunno. Don't quite see Werner visiting at the hospital. Guess it depends.

He is totally Yul though.
Tarbuster

climber
right here, right now
Mar 18, 2010 - 02:00am PT
Peter Haan will be our DP.

Good.
Right.
Off to work then.

NO quiddling.
krutley

climber
here, now
May 11, 2010 - 01:11am PT
I'm new here, see lots of ego (every time I write). I doubt you ever knew me, Werner, and I you, only from a distance. That said, I'm gonna throw out one that applies: Who knows, doesn't speak -- Who speaks, doesn't know.

Being a word-waster peronally, i have great respect for those here who convey a lot with a little. I know well how my own character assassinations have dogged me, and how truth hurts my ego, and how i only serve to gain by loving my critics.

Werner, save me from India, please. My vision's beginning to become altered... open up a bottle of clarity, even if it's just a 2 oz'er.
Anastasia

Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
May 11, 2010 - 01:27am PT
Wisdom is being aware of all that you don't know and not fear it, hide from it or think it is somehow irrelevant. It is knowing that the knowledge you do know is very limited and it is dynamically changing from fact to fiction, fiction to fact by your own influence.

Our values, our reality as adults is perceptual with many layers created by our own experiences and not the black and white solid pillars of a child's mind.

Wisdom is not something a person has, it is something they understand.

---



There are only four people in my life that I fully respect and trust. WBraun is one of them.



Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
May 11, 2010 - 01:40am PT
WBraun,

Great climber. Saver of Human lives. Wise. Willing to think outside the Box. I don't agree with him on everything, but he is a good soul. Calls a Spade a Spade. Seeker of Truth. Doesn't suffer fools.

One of the brave souls on ST that can speak his mind and calls out those not willing to think.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
May 11, 2010 - 01:53am PT
I don't know, one time I said "hi" to Werner as he was walking by,
and he acted like he didn't even hear me! How rude! ;o
Anastasia

Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
May 11, 2010 - 01:59am PT
Ha! He most likely didn't.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
May 11, 2010 - 03:03am PT
"One of the brave souls on ST that can speak his mind and calls out those not willing to think."

Ha! Could Klimmer be any more transparent here or what? LOL!
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Arid-zona
May 11, 2010 - 04:18am PT
Holy crap this thread.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
May 11, 2010 - 10:13am PT
Most consistent posters on ST have views somewhat outside of the "norm." Appreciate the diversity.
mountain dog

Trad climber
over the hills and far away
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 22, 2012 - 03:15am PT
If seth got banned ........????????? What the sh#t????? Was it the word turd?
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Apr 23, 2012 - 12:32pm PT
They deleted the whole thread. apparently the trollness is ot
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
Apr 23, 2012 - 01:09pm PT

Wise, veddy wise!
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Apr 23, 2012 - 01:32pm PT
Don't f*#k with the Stonemasters is the moral of that story.
They have earned a place in history and a little respect.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 23, 2012 - 02:50pm PT
Everybody deserves respect. Respect includes a belief in the person's ability to tolerate to be confronted with his own reasoning. Most often WBraun does.

YoungGun
I agree that Wbraun himself often does not act respectfully. He seems to be fuking around as Locker would say.
YoungGun

climber
North
Apr 23, 2012 - 03:29pm PT
I can't count the number of genuine, thoughtful posts which received a "Stupid" response from WBraun. No explanation, no substantive response, no analysis, just the insult. Is that respect? Is that being positive?

Chris talks a lot about the importance of being positive, but the bottom line is that you can get away with anything if you're at all famous and very little if you're not. Caustic posters like WBraun are just one of the reasons I rarely visit the forum anymore.
Josh Higgins

Trad climber
San Diego
Apr 23, 2012 - 04:36pm PT
Young Gun, I completely agree. I used to be much more active on here until the level of negativity and the "in crowd" feel of the place got worse. I don't even post trip reports here much anymore since even those will get negative comments sometimes.

Josh
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Apr 23, 2012 - 04:55pm PT
A lot of rhetorical questions have come up concerning people's character on the forum lately. While referring to someone or something as "stupid" would be hard to be considered positive; it certainly isn't foul or distasteful as some descriptions and pictures of late.

Keep in mind CMac's thread on the direction of the website. There is no thread-nazi. There are no special entitlements here IMO. I don't see any preferential treatment or status.

I see the opposite; which is a lot of tolerance for people that push the envelope of decency.

Who would want to run a website where a thread about excrement gets 400+ posts in a few days? This is a business and posting isn't a right it is a privilege.
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 23, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
Tobia

Wasn't it "turd" that really got around 400+ posts in a few days... LOL...
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 23, 2012 - 05:30pm PT
coz

FACT: WBraun is not able to cut throw'is'own bull sh#t like a knife. That's his task before he leave this his hell, nothing else...
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Apr 23, 2012 - 05:31pm PT
I had heard of WB for years long before I ever logged into ST. 50gazzilion ascents of astrowhatever..way out across the line rescues..A legend.

Met a few other Legends along the way of my occasional moments of minor notable feats but generally mediocre climbing career. Almost all of them were affable pleasant folks who just loved to climb and had a bit or more ambition to push limits. Their own of course and the state of the art that made em Legends.

In climbing being a Legend isnt something legends seem to feel they are. The young still insecure wannabes however tend to really boast and make noise.

In this little dysfuntional intense community of real characters where eventually you personally know or know someone who knows... everyone...you tend to think you've seen it all.

Then you meet Werner on ST.

ROFLMAO and spitting beer. Bugger is a troll extraordinaire!

Damn it must get boring sitting around working on cars while waiting for the next rescue call in that back lot.

Dude really got me going with that missile pentagon thread before I figured out what he was up to,...

Fish on..I got caught..like so many others.

Dude does occasionally post some really awesome info on obscure approaches and stuff though..Its almost like Yosemite is his life-long back yard or something and he knows every hole in the fences and whatnot.

Oh yeah... The big troll lives in freaking Yosemite year round....

Yep I hate him...

lol..ok I'm just jealous...

Except when I think of all the really terrible stuff he has seen and the complete insane rescues he has put it all on the line to help.

Who is Werner... Hell if I really know...

But he is an entertaining Troll and deserving legend.

Plus he has one of the greatest photos in climbing history..the tube-sock boombox Solo... Too awesome for me.



hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Apr 23, 2012 - 06:01pm PT
if you want all responses to be from "the replacements"
well, your future is bright. in the meantime ...
Tobia

Social climber
Denial
Apr 23, 2012 - 08:10pm PT
DMT:
I am confused now; who is his daddy?
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Apr 24, 2012 - 02:44am PT
Then Dingus Milktoast must be the holy ghost, the main server of life...
YoungGun

climber
North
Apr 24, 2012 - 08:54am PT
Coz, I'm sure a lot of what I say is stupid. There are realistically probably only a few topics about which I'm really knowledgeable. My gripe isn't with criticism per se -- I just think I learn a lot more when someone can help me understand why I'm wrong/stupid/etc. by providing reasons and evidence to clarify my thinking. Leaving it at "Stupid," is just insulting and doesn't provide any opportunity for me to learn or better myself, so I don't find it valuable. It makes listening to and participating in a lot of the discussions a waste of time.
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