son of hart

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 20 of total 33 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
tarallo

Trad climber
italy
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 28, 2010 - 05:25am PT
hi can i have some info about this route?
what route can be compared ?for example mescalito or the shield
is it much harder than those etc
can you post some photos?
ciao
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 28, 2010 - 05:41am PT
oh deer.
Cooler chimblys, from what I've gathered.
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Jan 28, 2010 - 06:17am PT
http://supertopo.com/climbers-forum/682186/Son_Of_Heart_-_T_R
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Jan 28, 2010 - 06:25am PT
There's some stuff here on McTopo.

I climbed it with Tom in the fall of '04. In spite of its outstanding natural line, it is one of my LEAST favourite El Cap routes.

There are some pretty nasty offwidths and chimneys that are hellaciously awkward. My lack of free climbing ability is well-known, but I am a caver, and usually do OK in chimneys. But these ones were tough and unfriendly, "as much fun to clean as they are to lead."

We brought along some 9" and 12" Valley Giant cams which obviously helped a lot, but even so, these chimneys were HARD and wicked awkward.

I have my Dr. Piton Super-Duper Beta topo scanned, and I could email it to you if you like - send me an email via the website so I can reply. And it might cost you a few beers on the bridge this spring... {wink}

Excalibur is a much better route nearby. Sunkist is brilliant and much much better. Cosmos isn't bad.

I haven't done the Shield, but SOH is a couple notches harder than a trade route like Mescalito, for sure. It sees very few ascents. I think it's only had the one ascent linked above since we did it.

In spite of it being one of my least favourite routes on the Captain, if not my VERY least favourite, on a different post here on McTopo, you will find a number of climbers writing that they have climbed it, and saying they really liked it. So one man's grovel-fest is another man's classic.
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Jan 28, 2010 - 07:32am PT
See the link Wally provides to my earlier Trip Report from 2008 for lots of pictures.

Bring some large cams & be solid on wide cracks, or at least have the ability to aid your way up them. A 9" cam or two would be nice to have.

On pitch 10, where the C-Mac topo shows a pendulum over left, you can hook instead directly over to the upper crack. An old bolt is nearby and 2 or 3 hook moves get you to the crack much more easily than the grassy nailing you would have to do if you pendo.

Great position, cool rock and a high Obscurity factor make this a memorable route.

Have fun!
tarallo

Trad climber
italy
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2010 - 07:48am PT
thank you so much the kierkegard chimney seems very hard....
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Jan 28, 2010 - 08:56am PT
Bill's hooking tip above [the "slick arete" pitch] is important! I used the bolt and penji'd-lowered down, only to find myself climbing a vertical jungle of bushes. Really really horrible.

Kierkegaard didn't seem too bad [the 13th pitch] but the chimney above it [the 14th pitch] was a REAL struggle for both me as leader, and for Tom as cleaner. And that was WITH the big cams!

Blech. Why the appeal of this route?

Bill - you've done a ton of El Cap routes - what was your bottom line take on SOH? Great? Good? OK? Not good? Horrible? I'd be somewhere between "not good" with some "horrible" thrown in. So many better routes to climb, in my opinion.
tarallo

Trad climber
italy
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 28, 2010 - 01:54pm PT
pete do you think the shield is better?
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Jan 28, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
Amazingly, the Shield is one route I have knott yet done! So I can't tell you.

But I just didn't like Son of Heart, even being a caver I didn't like the chimneys and the claustrophic feeling. So in spite of never having done the Shield, I'm sure I personally would enjoy it a LOT more than Son of Heart. In fact, I would enjoy a visit to the dentist more than Son of Heart.
Levy

Big Wall climber
So Cal
Jan 28, 2010 - 04:10pm PT
Hey Pete, I liked it! The route was more strenuous than most but with memorable pitches & position. The wide stuff was burly but who wants to do easy walls?

Lots of killer gold & tangerine colored rock up there to enjoy.
TripL7

Trad climber
san diego
Jan 28, 2010 - 10:02pm PT
Spring of 1975 Dave Stutzman RIP, and Maurice(from Norway)attempted the second. Neither one of them had done a route on the Captain. Dave led Kierkegaard and Nietzsche chimney pitches totally unprotected. From belay to belay with zero/zilch/Nada piece of pro. Dave described it as a double overhanging flared OW/chimney. Did it with no aid or pro. No one has done it in that style since. Although Dale and Gramicci must have come close with just the bongs.
Watusi

Social climber
Newport, OR
Jan 29, 2010 - 12:41am PT
Bill, loved your post on this one!!

Especially this one of "E" enjoying a refreshment break midlead!!!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jan 29, 2010 - 12:51am PT
so, if your'e oaky with leading .10 wyde do you really need to drag those boat anchors, with you?
Darkcrystal

Trad climber
Lausanne, Switzerland
Aug 4, 2011 - 12:00pm PT
It has been written above
"Spring of 1975 Dave Stutzman RIP, and Maurice(from Norway)attempted the second. Neither one of them had done a route on the Captain. Dave led Kierkegaard and Nietzsche chimney ..."
So far OK, except I am Swiss.
What is written after is false, pure legend! Dave did place several protections, in particular we had some 10-15cm aluminium tubes (I may still have some in my basement), and in order to remove them when jumaring up, I had to go so deep inside the chimneys that I had to remove my helmet.
I do not claim that these protections were very good ... but probably not worse than the belays :-(
We have been rescued 3 pitches below the top on the 12th day, by Mark Chapman, Jim Orey, and 3 of their friends who helped carrying water and ropes.
May Ganesh protect them! One week later, Jim even did lend me some hardware to go to the triple direct ... the kind of nice gestures you will never forget!
maurice
Silver

Big Wall climber
Nor Nev
Aug 4, 2011 - 12:18pm PT
^^^^^^ There you have it^^^^^^^^^

Another urban climbing myth squashed on the Taco.

thaDood

Mountain climber
PortaLedga OnzaKaleefa
Aug 4, 2011 - 06:19pm PT
"Another urban climbing myth squashed here on supertopo.'

I hardly agree nor thinkso.

Dave and I had planned on clmbing SoH and bagging the SA since the middle of that winter. We bailed from our jobs on the eastside in mid-March and took the long way around(thru Tahoe)since the TPR was still closed. Upon inspection from the base we observed a cornice(of ice)still suspended above various west face routes and particularly the SoH and was crashing and sometimes nailing people along the base of El Cap. So we decided on another wall free of ice(but turned out to still be wet)after tireing of doing shorter free routes(not me particularly).

That was the Gold Wall which was a Kor route with only one additional ascent the SA(Robbins)at the time and which had rebuffed many polished third ascent co-tenders over the years at the time. This was before Silent Line had been done, and before cams, etc. On the way down(from the GW)Dave who was carrying his rucksack with all our wall hardware, biners, jumars, etc. managed to drop it(his rucksack)and evidently it blew apart and our gear was spread and lost to the thick underbrush & manzanita below. Might not sound like a big deal now days, but it was practically everything i owned back then. And just about everything else I owned(tent & whatever I had left in it, eg. Galibier Superguides, etc.)was gone when we returned to C4.

Dave & i had setup our tents in far west end of camp next to the road(not that close/about 50 yards). When we returned both of our tents were gone. I had a North Face Mountain Tent, and Dave had a North Face St. Elias tent. Expensive tents for that day($300.00)and still expensive by todays standards. Pretty dissapointing. I chocked it off as a loss, but Dave reported it to park authorities. Good thing that he did cuz they eventually aphrehended the culprits & the tents/gear, but it was all put on hold for about one year as evidence.

Dave obviously had some savings from his Army years & was able to replace some(including a rope)that was lost, but I had to pretty much dirtbag it(literally)in the dirt or snow(as it did at least once)with my down bag and bivy gear. Along with losing all my hardware/pins, biners, jumars, etc when he dropped his rucksack, and my stolen tent and whatever money I had stashed there, I had also borrowed about twenty pins and another twenty or so Chouinard biners(initially for SoH)from a friend(W. Rosethal)and that was my first perogitive, to repay him for the borrowed gear. So needless to say, things had started to go downhill for me in regards to an extended stay let alone a big wall/Cap route.

So one morning, not long after, Dave returns to camp with the answer(according to him)regarding having the essential gear for SoH...enter Maurice. Initially I didn't like the idea of a three man team since it cuts your leads from 1/2 to 1/3. But Dave informed me that Maurice had a full wall rack, and the necessary experience since he had recently climbed the Trolltind(sp)Wall, the longest & perhaps hardest European wall at the time. My only objection was that Maurice climbed everything in Mt. boots, not necessarily conducive towards being sucessfull on hard valley free climbs, or what was being descriptive to date in regards to what we would find on SoH.

So i agreed to a test that included several of the .9-.10 routes that if he (Maurice)could sucessfuly climb we would include him on the SoH. The first one and only one I can recall was Moby Dick Center which Maurice(although looking a tad desperate at times)dispatched of with his first attempt. I actually thought this was pretty remarkable considering the heavy Mt. boots(I didn't think I could have onsighted it in Mt. boots), as were the various other routes we may have done.

I remember having replaced all of WR pins and biners, and having zero money. Dave was paying for all my food, etc. something I appreciated and never offered to pay back(I don't think he expected me to)after he didn't offer to at least help in paying for/replacing WR gear since he dropped it. But that was just Daves idea/way of doing things. And I could understand. But I had somehow developed a bad and continueing case of dysentary and was getting weaker by the day. I either had no money or what little i had I wasn't going to spend on going to the doctor. Plus I had no clue what was wrong with me(little was commonly known regarding E. coli, etc, or at least by me to suspect it and how easily it could be treated at the time).

So I eventually bailed secondary to having the squirts, stomach pain, and overall weakness, etc. along with my other problems.

I spoke to Dave about the route(SoH)and would like to clarify a few things. It's been a long time, but I do recall this discription of the two back to back wide/chim pitches known as Kierkegaard & Nietzche Chimneys. Dave said that he lead them all free. That if he had any pro, it was very marginal and he might as well had none, or at best was leading as if he had none in because he was way to far past a very sketchy placement. I would also like to add that I had at least three of the tube-chocks and had either used them or attempte to on many occasions including Twilight Zone and for the most part considered them often not worth the effort.

Regarding the N&K chims the following is an example of his(Daves)leading and the exchange that took place between him and Maurice: Dave said that about halfway or so up the pitch, and at best, a long way past a sketchy placement that no longer if ever served its purpose Maurice yells for him to place a piece of pro. Maurice continues to shout every few feet or so and about 75' out starts yelling "Put something in or you are going to die." Dave continues on and as much as he would like to place something he can not. As he proceeds without any possibility of pro Maurice starts to yell "Put something in or WE are going to die." Finally, in order to "Get Maurice to shut up."(Daves words not mine)Dave takes out one of his two aiders(etrea)and rolls it up into a ball, stuffs it into the back of the chimney, clips a biner and the rope to it and proceeds for another 15-30 ft. before it falls out and down the rope to Maurice. And I do recall him mentioning the sketchy belay which consisted of perhaps only one 1/4" bolt. So Maurice's concern about the both of them dying should he fall was not entirely without any merit.

Maurice, I do understand that you and Dave did not get along very well on the climb(to put it mildly). And that you wanted to turn back(bail)well before the total commitment of turning the roof out of the Heart. And had allot of communication breakdowns, etc and never spoke to one another ever again.

I am/was sorry to here this because I remember you & Dave as getting along well(actually the three of us getting along well)and that you were very easy to get along with and very good natured, etc.

And I do understand how Dave could be very obstinate, particularly in regards to climbing.

In regards to being "three pitches from the top" that is true(as I have stated elsewhere). But you were less than one pitch from finishing th SoH proper. Which ended at Easy Street. And the problem(according to Dave)was along with the running out of water(dehydration)was the lack of strength to pull himself up to the next step in the aider at his high-point(although he went up to that high point on several occasions as he deteriorated)and not the technical(relitively)difficulty of that pitch. That pitch ends on Easy Street(i think that's the name)and then follows a couple of pitches that are no longer overhanging to the top. So Dave felt that if he had enough strength for the last 50 ft or less of overhanging rock on the SoH he could have and would have had been able to easily finish the route.

And although I think it was rephrehensible, I can understand his explanation for not thanking, nor buying dinner at the Four Seasons for Mark & Jim. It was wrong, and perhaps he was additionaly overthinking Mark & Jims secondary motives, or what they would have done if it were someone else. He(Dave)felt that if it had been a friend, or a Valley regular, etc. they(Mark & Jim)would have brought more water, enabling him/you to finish the remaining pitches. For instance take into consideration the "rescue" of Pratt/Fredricks on the Dihedral Wall about 7 years prior to this. They had brought food, water & dry cloths/downjackets/bags in order for them to complete the route if possible. Dave felt that they didn't want him to bag the SA of SoH. He(Dave)only got less than 1/2 bottle of water(typical water bottle equaled about 16-22oz water back then). If they had brought a couple of liters, the two of you could have rehydrated and finished the climb.

Dave was a difficult individual to understand, for instance I recall him telling me shortly after, and again a year or so after that he would have rather died on SoH at your highpoint rather than be rescued. Dave was intense and driven. If you climbed with him it was sokmething you should know, or soon became aware of, and shouldn't be climbing with him if you didn't share similar objectives and willingness to risk much if not all. I seemed to get along well with him in that regard as more as a voice of reason when it was absolutely necessary.

Silver, Dave said he led the two back to back pitches entirely free. Would he have resorted to aid if it were feasible, probably so, he wasn't looking for glory by leading a rather obscur(at the time)pitch that probably wasn't done totally free by the FA party. He remarked that the hardest free part on one of the pitches wa near the very end with either little or nothing in for a very long ways. Regardless, lets see someone today(of this day and age) go up there with only a 10" and 12" tube chock for pro & no cams, etc.! Or at least go up there and leave all the wide stuff(cams, etc.)except the tube chocks, in the haulbag until the sh#t is totally scared out of you and you are humbled enough to request them from your belayer. Rather then spray that "another urban myth"...

Maurice, you prollie no lnger remember me but I remember you and have often wonderred what happened to you. I have only heard one side of the SoH saga so I would be hoping that you would be willing to share your side of the story. I can understand how you may still have a bad taste in your mout(so to speak)regarding th SoH and Dave Stutzman in general. He could be a bit hard to get along with, or at least understand at times. For instance, when I caught up with him on the descent of the GW and asked him what happened to the rucksack full of gear he simply said "I dropped it". And simply shrugged his shoulders as if to say so what or that's the way it goes in response to the look of shock, disbelief and dismay or whatever i was feeling. He never said he was sorry or offered to help me buy and return the gear i had borrowed for the both of us. That's just the way he was. But he was a good friend, one who would put his life on the line for you if you asked him whether climbing or whatever the situation. But he expected the same from you, and didn't like to be disapointed.

Dave was an odd indiviual in some ways, and as Allison Osias(sp)commented in an obituary she wrote for Dave in some climbing rag she was affiliated with at the time "Dave was born a hundred years to late". She mentioned this in regards to his not excepting the free cabin he was offerred, while guiding for some place in Washington that they had both worked together at, and instead chose to hike up some stream to pitch his tent for the summer.

Maurice, glad to hear from you after all these years, and I welcome you here to Supertopo, I know you have allot to offer and share and I am hoping that you continue to do so.

Butch

edit: Sorry about the long post, just trying to put a few things into perspective. Maurice, I also heard that you went on to do the RNWFHD also after completing an the TD, congrats!
'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
Aug 4, 2011 - 06:45pm PT
Wow. You guys got rescued three pitches from the top? That's one easy nailing pitch, and two easy slab pitches.

Maurice - what happened?

[Thanks for your recollections, Butch, although they are of course second-hand]

I never could have gotten up SoH without Tom's big-ass Valley Giant cams. Yeah, I cheated. And we had a solar-powered shower on the summit.
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Aug 4, 2011 - 07:08pm PT
Butch - Gnarly story of dirtbagdom. Thanks for the post.
thaDood

Mountain climber
PortaLedga OnzaKaleefa
Aug 4, 2011 - 07:51pm PT
"Second hand" yes, but I heard it directly from the horses mouth, the man that lead those two pitches, how unprotectable they were, etc. He said he lay there(below either K or N)for a whole day before he got up the courage to do so(lead). He new they would be unprtectable with what they had...Period.

Dave mentioned that the only reason that he placed, or attempted to place was to quiet, or assuage his(Maurice)fears, and that the incessant demands(to place pro)were only making matters worse, annoying and not helpfull in anyway. He felt that the two pitches were basically unprotectable to any degree with what they had, or what he new of existing at the time(in regards to my question as to what he would suggest the next party who may consider SoH cuz D. Bard & A Bard had questioned me and later Dave about it).

Personally it is easy to look at it from both individuals perspective. And add the fact that both were not happy campers in regards to their campmate and on the climb of their lives up to that point...

I would love to here of someone, with the balls, that went up there with only a couple of 10-12 inch tube chocks & with the weight of a basically useless wall rack of pins & biners, etc. over their shouder(not conviently from the current wall harness, and with not much of a harness at al other than a homemade 1" webbing around the waist and dragging a 11 mil. haul line onto an double overhanging chim/wide for two pitches with your partner hanging from a shitty belay. Think about that and launch off on this 10d-12+ double overhanging nightmare...

Rather than speculate from their urban keyboards about what they percieve as myths from high places & yesteryear.

But then this is Supertopo and would be prollie non-existant with out it since most posters have forgotten what a well placed pin biteing granite & producing the occasional smoke & sparks sounds & smells like to the climber that is a long, long way out with his partner yelling..."Your gonna die."!

edit: "How come?" I can give you Dave's explanation as why they ran out of water, but that would be "second hand" so why bother, and I would prefer to hear from Maurice also. And the 12 days on the wall that Maurice mentions above includes at least 4 days of hanging sta
tionary at their high point, hanging in their hammocks(not climbing)and according to Dave "hallucinating" secondary to dehydration.
Walleye

climber
The Hot Kiss on the end of a Wet Fist
Aug 4, 2011 - 08:42pm PT
On our ascent, the Iron Monkey led the Kierkegaard Chimney with two pieces of pro. He clipped a fixed bong and then placed a big bro tube that Yogi so graciously loaned us. When I cleaned the pitch I found out to my delight that Dave had forgotten to clip the tube chock thereby leading the entire gnarly pitch with on piece of pro.
Messages 1 - 20 of total 33 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews