Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 217 of total 217 in this topic |
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 8, 2010 - 07:16pm PT
|
Take note of the rules you agree to, when when you obtain a driver's Lic.at least, in California
So, on an urban road, two lanes going each way, like let's say, hypothetically, Ashby in Berkeley, or Civic, in walnut Creek, Ca, where there is no bike lane, it is NOT okay to share the lane in your car, with a bike.
The rules of the road™, say that you treat a bike with the same space requirements as a car, you don't tailgate, you don't crowd. If you need to pass, you wait for the opportunity, and patiently drive slower, until then., remember that a bike will stop a lot faster than you in your car will, plan accordingly!
You probably will never get a ticket for this reckless behavior, but the life you save be avoiding it, may very well be mine!
End of Rant.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
Dude, that is not a rant.
That's a reasoned plea for responsible behavior. You can do much better. Squint those eyes. Tense all muscles. Crank the volume. Get the spittle flying.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2010 - 07:21pm PT
|
How about how I get pissed when I yell "FUKC YOU!" as loud as I can, when they almost kill me, and I know they can't hear me, with the windows rolled up, and they are not paying attention in the first place?
Cheers, ghost!
|
|
Greg Barnes
climber
|
|
But, to play devil's advocate here, the letter of the law says a single bicyclist could go up Hwy 120 towards Yosemite at 5mph and block all traffic for miles, until there is a reasonable place to pull over.
Try that in a car, and the CHP (or Yos LEOs) would simply pull them over and have them towed - for good reason.
The honest truth is that there is NO cohesive set of laws concerning bike use on roads in California. Interpreting the existing laws is not black-and-white. And it's those shades of grey that a small subset of bikers interpret far too aggressively - hence the blocking traffic, riding side-by-side on narrow roads, etc.
Here's the vehicle code for going too slow:
22400. (a) No person shall drive upon a highway at such a slow speed as to impede or block the normal and reasonable movement of traffic, unless the reduced speed is necessary for safe operation, because of a grade, or in compliance with law.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
urban bike jamming is a contact sport
when I road a lot in NY I think I got away with being hit 4 times... and since I was younger, got away no worse for the wear...
I'm a much more defensive rider now, but that sometimes leads to violating, or certainly bending, the "rules of the road" so that it is safer, but i've run into cops with a different interpretation of that behavior vis-a-vis the Cali vehicle code.
I tend not to yell at people, simply put, you don't know what their intention is... you'd wish they were paying better attention to driving. I get pissed when people drive by oblivious to the road on their cell phones, talking or texting... huge worry in my mind out there. It is easy for them to forget where their car is and just sort of kill you.
No solution to this problem of mixed mode transport. Most bike paths I've ridden on have traffic problems too.
I have thought about riding to Yosemite, but I am sure I wouldn't go down 120 for most of the trip... there are other great roads to use to traverse the Central Valley. But there are only a few into the Valley, and grinding up Old or New Priest Grade would suck even with out the traffic.
Anyone here ever do this?
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2010 - 08:20pm PT
|
Paging Yerian?
|
|
aguacaliente
climber
|
|
Most cyclists don't want to block traffic and be followed very closely by a car, it is uncomfortable. But it's not always possible or safe for us to let a car pass the instant it comes up. For me, if I am riding a bike on a narrow mountain road and you're behind and I'm not over to the side of the road, it means it's not safe for you to pass yet - like, there's a blind turn ahead and I can't see if there is oncoming traffic, or the pavement on the shoulder is bad and I can't use it. Just wait a few seconds and once it's clear I'll move over to the fog line so you can go by.
The Cali vehicle code says slow traffic should keep "as close to the right as is practicable" or something like that. I take "practicable" to include allowing a safe pass, but not an unsafe or instant one.
Some riders may take longer to move over, but in general a few seconds of patience solves a lot of problems. Similarly, if I am out with a friend and there is little traffic we may ride side-by-side to talk. If a car comes up we'll get in single-file, but it takes a little while to do that.
In urban situations, often I don't want to pull to the right because it's in the door zone of parked cars or there isn't room for a car and bike in the same lane, just wait a few seconds until we get to the end of the block to pass.
|
|
EP
Social climber
Way Out There
|
|
Just got a Surly Long Haul Trucker. I'll be riding from Vancouver to Santa Monica this summer if my dad's cancer treatment has him well enough for me to be gone for 9 weeks.
I am concerned about the long trip on a bike, knowing too well how inattentive drivers can be.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 8, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
|
It's a jungle out there, Fattrad! As you know!
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
I target all of those fixed gear Poofter's.
|
|
klk
Trad climber
cali
|
|
dude, please tell me you aren't trying to ride a bike on ashby.
i dont even drive on ashby if i can avoid it.
better off soloing twilight zone barefoot and naked.
|
|
rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
I say we just grid out all the cities. Every other street is bike only. Makes the bikers happy, makes the drivers happy, makes the earth happy, cuts down on heart disease, and we can pull our boys home from the middle east. Win win win all around. Either that or just shoot all the drives. that would work even better. ha (don't think I haven't been tempted)
And riding side by side isn't just for talking; its often a safety mechanism. Otherwise cars will try to shoot by squeezing into one lane and drive a single cyclist into the gravel or gutter or glass or whatever sh#t is way off to the right. Of course we don't own the road - but we have a right to be safe and keep people from running over us.
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
Jaybro.....try cranking your neck when you hear a car approaching and give the driver a look...i think most drivers are cowards and will feel less inclined to run you over if you they know the cyclist has a face.....how much time do you think dr. thompson should do for crashing the 2 cyclists in brentwood...? .rj
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2010 - 03:52pm PT
|
I do do that sometimes, good call.
Well, what is the puishment for attempted murder?
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
thompson is probably smart enough not to do that again.....crash the cyclists that is...loss of his drivers license for a while which might force him to commute by bicycle.....he should have to cover the cyclists injuries and ensuing complications from those injuries for life....suspension of his drs. license.....the dr. moved from california i believe and am wondering if it was because of the numerous death threats he received.....?
|
|
LimestoneCowboy
Trad climber
Houston, Texas
|
|
Though I'm not a Californian, I really take this thread to heart. I've been sidelined from climbing for 12 weeks now after an oblivious driver broadsided me on my road bike here in Houston. Broad daylight...very light traffic (odd for Houston)...fractured femur. PAY ATTENTION PEOPLE! I'm not asking for you to go out of your way to make room for us cyclists, but at least don't run us over. Please?
|
|
olivier
Social climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
Ed,
I've ridden from Mammoth to Berkeley in 98. That was before Google maps, which could really make a difference these days in terms of planning and safety. We took a path from Manteca towards Walnut Creek which to this day is the most dangerous road I've ever been on as a cyclist. It's called J4. X.
Today I would recommend riding to Yosemite to any experienced cyclist who is willing to ride a portion on dirt, MTB only, by navigating backroads the entire way. Only as you approach the valley will you be on the main roads, which are relatively safe. Old Priest Grade is safe as the speeds for everyone are low. Allow 3 days.
The state of the roads for cyclists has gotten very bad in recent years, in my opinion: Cell phones, road ragers, traffic density (cars and bikes). Berkeley is special, even the pedestrians cop an attitude, but it is in a class of its own.
In France bicycles have their own code of conduct and a portion of driver's ed. is dedicated to bicycles and the rights they have on the road. Everybody is required to learn this. We could certainly benefit from that approach here as more and more people are attracted to bikes for general transportation purposes.
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
Olivier....them french are a bunch of slack-jawed faggots.....i prefer bike to car full contact encounters......rj
|
|
olivier
Social climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
rj,
I appreciate your response, but I can assure you that there is plenty of
car to bike contact. Usually the cyclist wins as the cars are so much smaller over there.
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
LEB.....how bout just smiling and flashing the peace sign? rj
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
|
It's cool Lois, I 've learned to always ride with my new body gaurd
-Locker image
|
|
nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
|
|
Jaybro, you touch on my biggest rant. ..."How about how I get pissed when I yell "FUKC YOU!" as loud as I can, when they almost kill me, and I know they can't hear me, with the windows rolled up, and they are not paying attention in the first place?"
...............
Since my bike is my main transportation, near misses are almost a daily occurrence. I swear i have the biggest potty mouth, temper change and middle finger quick draw. ;-)
ps..normally i'm mild mannered.
Pss. i should take Ed's approach...but......I want people to know that they almost killed me.
Wear your helmet kids and always be alert....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgiVicpZGk&feature=related
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2010 - 06:36pm PT
|
You, a potty mouth, Nita ? I don't believe it!
|
|
Soulsurfer
Trad climber
carlsbad, Ca
|
|
I am split on this whole bike vs. car thing. I have lots of friends and family who ride road bikes. You know, not just to 7-11 to get a slurpee, but the whole 'I love looking like Richard Simmons' tight pink outfit kinda biker. From a driver perspective, I see some road bikers acting like some college frat guys walking into a hooka bar. Just looking for a fight.
I know some will say, 'this is my right', 'share the road', 'at least I am not drive an SUV killing the planet', blah blah blah. I agree for sure, it is your right.
I love to run, but I NEVER think to myself, 'gee I would sure love to run on x street and hear cars, horns and breath ummm exaust! I stay on the trails for some peace and relaxation.
So I guess to counter the urban bike rant, I would say act responsibly, meaning no middle finger, maybe ride on side streets, and actually stop at stop signs and stop lights. Yes, if you want us to obey the rules you can't pick and choose the ones you want to obey. If you want any credability, then you need to earn it.
Please give me a moment to now get into position for the supertopo beating of my life.
Joe brophy
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
if a group of cyclists are blocking the road i wait and pass when it is safe or i'll slow down to scan for any chicas in the pack....who gives a sh#t if you have to wait a few seconds...booh hooh , i have to wait a few seconds because there are some cyclists using my pavement....i'm so inconvenienced .......yeah run em over that'll teach em a lesson.....i wish more of the doctor thompson types would ram other cars when they have their hissy fits....that would get more idiots off the road and slow climate change...rj
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
After getting a ticket for allegedly making a right turn on a red light, and being found guilty in court, I now revel in my complete stop, foot down at red light and block the F'n car drivers behind me who are mad enough spit because I actually came to a stop!
Also at stop signs, complete stop, foot down....
I would not be surprised if you read that I got run down by some irate driver from behind... it is probably the most dangerous thing I do on a bicycle, obey the traffic signs.
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
Ed....damned if you do , damned if you don't.....i try to stay out of the way of cars and if that includes running stop signs so that i don't inconvenience cars , so be it....
|
|
slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
|
|
Ashby Ave. is not a good option for east-west bicycle travel through Berkeley. A MUCH better option would be to ride any number of "bicycle boulevards" that the City has established, which are wide and much less prone to car traffic. I feel your pain Jaybro, having been knocked off my bike @ University & San Pablo ("the Nexus of all that is Evil"), but we both know that there are better, safer, and calmer bike routes.
|
|
olivier
Social climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
The really ironic thing is that once I started coming to a COMPLETE stop,
car drivers started to get REALLY pissed. All of a sudden they realized,
"now I have to wait!" "Damned if you do, damned if you don't."
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
.i think most drivers are cowards and will feel less inclined to run you over if you they know the cyclist has a face..
There's more to it than that,
If you don't make eye contact , they didn't see you.
Something I figured out back in my motorcycle days.
Oblivious old lady's and minivan moms are as, or more dangerous than the agro azzholes.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2010 - 10:34pm PT
|
Ashby Bart to BIW, it's the way, when you get there you Are warmed up, if you make it, you feel alive. Unlike most climbing, I actually Do wear a helmet on these sort of adventures.
The one that scares me the most in that area is riding up El Toyonal in Orinda, over Tilden on the way to Indian Rock.
Ed, we all know that following the rules, Will, get you killed! Though it Can, save money.
|
|
nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
|
|
mrtropy, that was creepy corny classic.
Jaybro, AnnMarie Rizzi used to comment on how i never swore........ ... It's a newish habit i picked up from my urban bike riding adventures.
|
|
Greg Barnes
climber
|
|
My brother and I used to revel in coming to a complete stop at every stop sign and then sprinting each other, and we did it biking alone too. We would bike fast and slow down fast to the stop signs. Got a lot of strange looks from other bikers.
Then I nearly got creamed by a car - screeching to a stop about 3 feet behind my bike.
Now I treat stop signs as advisory only. As far as I'm concerned, there's only one rule of the road for bikes - don't get killed.
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
TGT....... a motorcyclist who's survived years of dodging maniacs on the freeways deserves a purple heart.....the eyes , like you said , are key....i feel for any motorcyclists driving LA's freeways and keep a vigilant eye out for them....
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there jaybro and all.... say, bikes or drivers, it sure is worse, sadly, than it was "back when we were kids" some how folks just seemed more tolerant of each other...
it was always...
look out for the bikes...
and if on a bike, it was always,
look out for the cars...
and--this was as to safety, ride of way,
as to situations, and respect...
it's all near gone now-adays, in the name of
"power plays"... or "selfish needs" ... or "lack of interest in others"
take care on the roads, all...
|
|
rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
re: Ashby ave in Berkeley; the next street to the north (and parallel to Ashby)is Russel.. Bicycle blvd as someone mentioned. Very sweet quiet ride. Thats part of my regular loop, from Shattuck up Russel to Tunnel to Pinehurst Redwood. 28 mile loop from my house. must have done it at least 200 times. Three nice climbs, a great view of the bay and golden gate bridge just before the big hill down Claremont back home. Hit 50 mph on claremont once. But those damn cars go too slow most of the time and I have to ride my brakes. lol
Riding in the Berkeley hills is really great. Cars are infrequent enough that its really chill. Quiet, pretty, frequent wildlife sightings (especially at dusk) and hills just steep enough to make it challenging.
(edit: unfortunately Russel doesn't go all the way West to Ironworks - I think you would have to do some zigs and zags to get there and stay off of Ashby.)
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2010 - 11:15pm PT
|
Russel, eh?
|
|
Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
|
|
There is no worse place for urban bikers than LA. I've never come closer to death than I did trying to bike to work and back from West LA to Hollywood - an exercise for my body and lessening my carbon footprint I tried a few years ago, did not end well. Well, it ended with me being alive but with more neath death/injury experiences from evil drivers AND peds than anything else. People here HATE people on bikes. They're gunning for you.
Seriously, drivers here are evil. As well as pedestrians. They HATE people on bikes.
LA for biking is only good on weekend mornings or bike paths along the beach.
|
|
rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
|
|
I ride when I can, but bad drivers make me nervous. I have been hit on a bike (1990 in Tempe, uninsured driver and cost me $$$ because the cops and FD took me to the ER), I got a $47 ticket for rolling through a stop sign (on UofA campus, no moving traffic or pedestrians in 1,000 yards and the stop sign was on a seldom used street behind the stadium in 1992. It was also friday afternoon about 4 and it was a tucson city cop no UofA police!?).
On the flip side, I have seen 100 bad bike riders who hog the road, don't even try to stay right, and then get pissed at all drivers. All those folks have drivers licenses but they can't obey motor vehicle laws on their bikes?
If the ER doc had just killed the two guys on the bikes he would spend less time in prison. And sorry, but the one "victim" who said he is scarred should go spend 6 months in Afghanistan and get back to us.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 9, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
|
Raymond Chandler never rode a bike...
Can't put a helmet over a fedora any way.
|
|
Greg Barnes
climber
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 12:57am PT
|
You'd like to think it's the people.
But it's just the density. The more people you crowd into one place, the higher the percentage of jerks - because it's just annoying to be blocked from doing whatever you're doing by lots of people.
But I definitely agree on the bike trails - sweet! About 10 days ago my brother and I got a night ride out of Military reserve and ended up on the new Fat Tire traverse to Sidewinder near midnight in a snowstorm (with snow on that traverse). Pretty cool!
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 10, 2010 - 01:05am PT
|
rjox, isn't everything better in Idaho? isn't that why so many people jones living there? Not just the white Supremicists? So much so that they have elected you as the sole promoter?
|
|
TC
Trad climber
Claremont, CA
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 01:53am PT
|
Is it a myth that bike riders in Europe enjoy more freedom of the road than US bike riders?
TC
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 01:59am PT
|
LEB.....it's not the lack of jobs that keep people from living in pennsyltcuky....it's the rabbits....!
|
|
Greg Barnes
climber
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 02:14am PT
|
It's my brother that lives in Boise, so we only visit now and then...and when we're there we might be at City of Rocks or Ketchum, etc.
Bogus is pretty fun, we were there on New year's for the powder dump (I call it powder since Sierra cement is what I grew up with...). It does have an awful lot of brush in places you don't expect (like in the tight trees). But it's a worthy area and only 45 minutes from town (assuming snow and ice on the road - quicker if the road is dry).
The Fat Tire Traverse is the narrow new one (trail 42), my brother had never seen it before and it looked new (and one of the signs down low said "planned to open summer 2009" or something). Definitely some pucker factor taking that at night, on snow, with snow in your eyes (I didn't have clear glasses or goggles - idiot). I figure there were no cliffs below, so how hurt could you really get?
|
|
aguacaliente
climber
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 02:26am PT
|
LEB, to answer your question about trying to give OK signals to a following car to let them know they can pass soon, it is not easy to give unambiguous signals to a car. There are only about two signals (beyond the usual left/right turn signals) you can give:
left hand out, palm back, waving = Don't pass me!!! (This is kinda like the stop signal but more frantic. I use this when there is oncoming traffic, blind curves or other scary situations)
left hand waving forward = Go ahead and pass
Anything more complicated and you risk confusion which is a bad idea with 3000 pounds of metal behind you on a two lane road.
I drive and it always makes me antsy to be behind slow traffic even though the actual time I lose in seconds is minuscule. I think it's just the nature of driving, it appeals to worse parts of our nature. People forget that cars are dangerous machinery, even deadly weapons. I have been buzzed and even chased by cars (despite the fact that I never cuss at drivers anymore - I just yell "Hey" really loud to try to get their attention). I think most people who buzz or cut off cyclists would not dream of pointing guns at their fellow men, but they are both threats with potentially lethal devices. Driving makes us aggressive. It is unfortunate. We just have to recognize this and consciously try to calm it. Maybe we need driving schools that are taught by meditative Supertopo Buddhists.
|
|
rotten johnny
Social climber
mammoth lakes, ca
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 02:37am PT
|
Rockjox.....it's the so cal people that are the rude dangerous ass-bites...they begin invading this town on thursday night....at night you can see a long line of headlights heading into town to ski and go ape-sh#t....they won't stop for pedestrians even when the obnoxious yellow crosswalk lights are flashing..... they drive in tight dangerous packs on the highway jockeying for position , bumper to bumper inspite of miles of open highway.....if you are only going 65 they flash their lights, tailgate , pass and then cut you off to show their disapproval.....they drive the same way on snow and ice , thinking that their 50 thousand dollar , 4-wheel drive suv's will save their asses....it has gotten to the point where now when the roads get dicey during a snowstorm the CHP will shut the highway down and escort the wreckless morons.....the CHP does this because the tourist are driving too fast on the icy roads and end up crashing which then creates an impass on the highway....the escort caravans are pretty scary as the tourists try to escape the mts. like rats leaving a sinking ship....is it any wonder that cyclist in southern cal receive poor treatment from the motorists....?
|
|
MisterE
Social climber
Across Town From Easy Street
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 02:51am PT
|
There is a story here - I was a bicycle courier for ENA in Seattle for 2 years in the 90's. 1000 miles a month was the average, and not very friendly.
The Seattle Chill makes people mean and crazy downtown, and oil slicked streets, aggro drivers and every kind of rain, sleet and snow you can imagine pervaded our daily concrete grind. On ice, for example, a courier could reduce the air pressure to 15 - 18 with knobbies, and roll right by the slip-sliding masses out for Xmas shopping.
A roomate, Tim was a cat. He told me about a trick on how to take any bad fall, and do three rolls and stand out of it. Crazy talk, but I listened anyway.
The theory according to Tim is, if one takes the energy of , oh, being broadsided by a car - and finds oneself flying through the air in an undignified manner, leading to any number of potential injuries - here's the trick.
One merely physically , and instantaneously, judges the "throw-force" of the impact, and once that is accomplished, simply EXCEEDS that force (even by just a little), with a spin-rotation force from your own burst of energy.
In other words, as you are hurtling through the air, drop your forward shoulder and spin harder than that force of the impact. This allows one to take the energy of the fall into the center of your physical being, and consequently a spin axis so centered after that, you take 3 rolls and stand up.
The sh#t really works, I am here to tell you.
Peace and cadence, Erik
|
|
Greg Barnes
climber
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 02:54am PT
|
Back on the urban bike rant - I think a lot of Euro riders get more respect for several reasons - the simplest being that a lot of the roads are super freaking narrow to begin with, so you really can't pass a bike on a mountain road. People don't drive nearly as far to get places, the roads are often slower to begin with, there is a lot of public transit and bike and pedestrian use all the time - so, generally speaking, a car driver in Europe feels like one of the user groups on the road systems, while in the US anything except a car is an oddity.
In Portland (Oregon) in the early '90s I would make eye contact with folks and STILL get cut off - especially older people in old cars. It's like it didn't even register - or they thought that a bike must be going 10mph or less, not 25.
Rokjox - Next time I get up that way when the trails are clear, I'll give you a shout. I've done a bunch of rides with my brother, we'd ride from his place (near the freeway and broadway) to the ridge (or the base of Bogus), then back various trails. I don't know most of the trail names, but I've probably done more of the long ones than the close-to-town stuff. Haven't done any of the trails above the base of Bogus though.
|
|
Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 03:08am PT
|
Rox, Idaho is supposed to be a secret ! Please, stop promoting our fair state. Idaho has doubled in population in a very few years, (and it's all your fault!) :-)
Wilderness, great outdoor opportunities, relatively inexpensive property and living costs, moountains to climb, wolves to pet and Mormons to point fingers at. Yes, it's all here, but let's kinda keep it in the family.
Sun Valley is already infested with Hollywood and corporate X America types........ and bringing leash laws, bioflavonid boutiques, high prices and stiff necked, nose in the air types.
We need to emphasize our subzero weather, Neo-Nazis, lack of jobs, wood ticks, unlawful searches by Danite militias, not to mention convenience store apples going at three dollars each........ God's country? Not in the least !
Jaybro, the key to safe biking is......don't let the motorists know you're having fun.
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 03:09am PT
|
Ed Hartouni asks if anyone has ever ridden on Highway 120 through Yosemite.
I ride all the major Sierra mountain roads, 120, 108, 4, 88, 49, even Highway 80 in some spots on my road bike doing multi-day tours. I wouldn't advise 120 in mid-summer with all the tourist traffic, but early summer and late fall are not a problem. You can hit 60+mph on the descent off of Tioga Pass towards Lee Vinning. Just be careful of rocks on the road.
Hiway 108, 4, 49 and 88 are fine spring, summer and fall.
And, yes, Old Priest Grade is a very difficult climb. The steepest sustained section(20%) comes right at the top. Ouch.
Bruce
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 03:16am PT
|
Idaho has one very cool law for cyclists. If there is no traffic at an intersection, bike riders are allowed to treat stop lights as stop sign and stop signs as yield signs.
On a different topic, the double yellow line on the roadway is pretty lame. You don't see double yellow lines in the mountain, or other places for that matter, in Europe because they trust the car drivers to be able to use their own judgement on where it is safe to pass.
In the US, car drivers treat the double yellow line as some sort of 'line of death' and will not pass a cyclists for fear of being ticketed. Luckily for Colorado, in the 'Cyclists Bill of Rights' which went into law in July of 2009, not only did it specifically spell out many of the legal differences between operating a car and a bicycle on the roadway (riding two-abreast in one lane, safe distance to pass, etc.), but it also made it legal for cars to cross the double yellow line to pass cyclists.
Bruce
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 07:16am PT
|
PDX is billed as the big bike town, but the dark underbelly no one talks much about is how many folks get both hit each year. We know lots of folks who've been hit and suffered everything from slight bruises to brain injuries to death. It's still a dangerous activity even in 'bike friendly' Portland.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
Social climber
You wanted to!
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 09:02am PT
|
Downhill bleeders. Sheesh!
Ah, well. Different goals, different methods.
|
|
mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 11:29am PT
|
Roxjox,
I will expect a nice long bike tour when I visit my cousins in Boise next summer.
Cheers
MT
|
|
olivier
Social climber
Hood River, OR
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 01:19pm PT
|
TC asked if it is a myth that roads are better in Europe.
While I can't speak to riding outside of France, there are a few differences that come to mind:
1. an incredible number of roads. There are amazing roads to choose from, and rarely do
you need to get on one that might rattle your nerves. Some of the mountain roads are like
singletrack for road bikes, and your biggest risk is running into livestock.
2. The main arteries are car-only, and well designed. That is, most through-drivers are on them.
3. There is a much higher level of respect for cyclists. Everybody rides a bike, and mostly for
daily errands / commuting. Drivers tend to see bikes.
Even Paris is surprisingly manageable for a cyclist, but that doesn't mean you can let down your guard! In general though I don't think it is a myth that things are better over there, it is only a question of how much better...
IMO, the US lack of a bike-specific set of rules creates a chaotic situation of cyclists vs. motorists. I would personally prefer to see a more restrictive set of rules for cyclists, in
exchange for some protections and rights of our own, like the "Stop as Yield" they have in
Idaho I think.
A city like Portland is "bike friendly" because it is relatively flat and the municipality does so much to facilitate and encourage bike riding. That doesn't mean it is safe, per se. And the number of accidents has much to do with the number of cyclists on the roads.
The best way to get around Portland is to weave in and out of back streets on routes where cars could simply not follow. In Berkeley you find similar "obstacles" where cars cannot pass. These are safe bike routes, but they are not "Fast" bike routes. To go fast you need to hop onto Shattuck and go with the flow, but then you take your life in your hands.
O
|
|
tomtom
Social climber
Seattle, Wa
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 02:05pm PT
|
For me, predictability is a key component of safety. And on my daily commute, I find cyclists much more unpredictable and dangerous than motorists.
Cyclists are much more likely to blow through stop signs without slowing than motorists.
Cyclists move from the sidewalk to the road and back in a random manner.
Cyclists will turn left from the right side of the road at intersections.
Cyclists pass on the right even if the vehicle has his right turn signal on (this one boggles my mind).
Too many cyclists bike as if they are kids in the park, not road users sharing the public space.
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
|
|
|
Jan 10, 2010 - 03:33pm PT
|
TC asked about bike riding in Europe vs USA.
Having done about 30 sell-supported bike tours in Europe and ridden in over fifteen countries I would say that it depends on where you ride and on what roads you ride. The Austrians drive much like Americans and seem to have little respect for cyclists. Spain has a really bad problem with cyclists getting hit by cars. Italy is a crap shoot, especially south of Rome. Riding in the Naples/Sorrento area is like being in a war zone.
Having said all that, on the smaller, less-traveled roads like in the mountains or out in the countryside, the Europeans, in general, do seem to give cyclists more respect and pass with care.
Bruce
|
|
davidji
Social climber
CA
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 12:25am PT
|
A sideways safety flag is supposed to be good for getting motorists go give you a little room. They don't seem to want to scrape their cars on your flag.
|
|
jbar
Mountain climber
urasymptote
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 01:03am PT
|
I rarely ride on the road anymore because there just isn't anywhere near me that's safe. I've had a car pass me while I was moving very fast then turn into a parking lot in front of me causing me to slam into and slide all the way down the car taking out the side mirror with my elbow en route. Luckily the driver was very sorry and happened to be a cute massage therapist. I was riding a century once when a driver became aggrivated about us blocking the road and began to erratically pass at high speed while honking their horn. They forced a rider ahead of me off the road and into a stand of trees. Unfortunately for the driver we had a local "biker" club riding escort for us and they took it kinda personal.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2010 - 01:36am PT
|
Hey Ed, did you get my email about possible snake slab photos?
-I'll listen to the ATC piece shortly
BTW, naked bike riding isn't all it's cracked up to be. But when on the playa....
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 02:35am PT
|
I just saw this thread. There are plenty of excellent roads to ride on here. In 1979, I rode from Fresno to the Valley on Highway 41. I did it a few days after Labor Day, and had very little traffic issues. There are a great many more commuters from at least Bass Lake down now, however, so I doubt that I'll do it again. I also used to ride from our family's Yosemite West cabin to the Valley in later years but, alas, we own the cabin no longer.
I must, however, agree with TomTom's post. I'm extremely attentive for cyclists in the foothills and mountains, because I do so much riding there myself, but there are way too many cyclists that give the rest of us a bad name. A little defensive riding and common courtesy would go a long way. I particularly cringe when I see fellow riders going two or three abreast on mountain roads, and making no effort to get out of the way when cars inevitably get behind them. I think of them when I get flipped off by some local, despite the fact that I'm riding in a bike lane.
John
|
|
Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 10:23am PT
|
I have always told my wife most likely I will die on my 4.5 mile bike commute to work every day. The risks people are willing to take with MY life is ridiculous even though I always ride in the bike line, as far to the right as possible, and complete stop at all stop signs.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 11:36am PT
|
I quit riding around SoCal - too many as#@&%es. Wait, make that fuking as#@&%es!
|
|
tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 12:43pm PT
|
Urban riding sucks, plane and simple. No matter what the rules of the road, the reality is the rider always looses in contact with a vehicle, so you have to hyper attentive, expect bonehead moves, and most importantly keep yourself from contacting vehicles.
Even though I did some stupid stuff during urban rides, the only time I contacted a vehicle would have been easily avoided if I'd been more cautious. I was rolling up to an intersection with a red, then it turned green before I reached the intersection. I was riding even with a car that was accelerating, right in his blind spot, and he turned into the market just after the intersection. Fortunately he was making a slow turn, and I dropped a loud enough F bomb that he came to a stop before running me over. In hindsight, I shouldn't have allowed myself to get into his blindspot.
Riding in the hills above Berkley, awesome, put lots of miles on the bike up there. Riding in downtown, did that a couple of times, to be avoided.
Honestly for a daily commute I'd look at lengthening your ride to avoid paticularly bad spots. Just not worth putting yourself in that risk and stress. The good thing about biking is you can take streets that aren't as car friendly and don't really give up that much time on a bike.
|
|
TrundleBum
Trad climber
Las Vegas
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 02:29pm PT
|
rotten johnny:
try cranking your neck when you hear a car approaching and give the driver a look...
TGT:
There's more to it than that,
If you don't make eye contact , they didn't see you.
Something I figured out back in my motorcycle days.
Oblivious old lady's and minivan moms are as, or more dangerous than the agro azzholes.
And I say when it gets looking like it might get a little 'touchy/feely' I will stick my arm out and point right at the driver and mouth words like 'Don't you hit me damnit'.
Seems to make a huge difference in the driver's focus!
~~~~~~~~~
I met a gal here in Vegas that was looking for a biking partner. She asked two questions right up front. "What kind of spandex riding suit do you wear, maybe I have seen you out?" and "What type of riding do you do/like the most?"
My reply "I haven't owned/worn spandex since the early 80's and in the metro area I would call my riding URBAN OFF ROAD. I don't think we would work out as riding partners!"
|
|
hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 04:21pm PT
|
you need a large, cruiser type seat for naked bike riding, otherwise it sure isn't comfortable.
I hear it's awkward for the ladies no matter what....
|
|
cowpoke
climber
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 07:00pm PT
|
Urban riding sucks, plane and simple. I disagree, for precisely the reason Pate points out. If (when?) injured during my commute, I'm sure I'll change my tune. For now, however, it's the reason I'm able to tolerate living in an urban environment...the car was killing me and the ride gives me a very similar buzz to climbing a scary route.
|
|
zeth0101
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 07:07pm PT
|
shit nowadays i just keep some small rocks in my pocket whenever i bike and when someone steps out of their boundaries with their car they get pelted hard. I've been hit 6 times in the past year. ALL IN BERKELEY. some close calls in Oakland but the snobs in Berkeley are the worst. 2 months ago a woman ran a red light to intentionally hit me after she yelled ant me and i yelled some sh#t back. she drove off and got away. i'll never bike with an empty pocket again. don't hit me because i'll likely break your window and if i catch you after you drive off... well that's another story.
|
|
james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 07:23pm PT
|
I for one find the sport of road riding odd. I find it par with climbing while a crowd at the top of the crag trundles 3,000 lb boulders at you.
"Share the Road", Share the expenses. A tax on any "road bike" purchased to pay for bike lanes and training courses for riders to drive home the idea of single file. Once the concept of single file is understood a second course in the concept of stop signs and how they relate to riders would be mandatory.
|
|
David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 08:49pm PT
|
james Colborn my income taxes state and federal already pay for my right to ride roads here in CA, bike lane or not. I have the same rights on my bike as any one in their car does. Don't you dare try and double tax me, and if any one needs educating, it's most morons in their cars-oh, but wait, don't get me started.
|
|
Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
|
|
|
Apr 27, 2010 - 09:10pm PT
|
Want to be treated like a car? Then go as fast as one...thats all I'm asking. I ride around town all the time and just assume everyones out to kill me in a car, thats the reason I'm still alive.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2010 - 12:39am PT
|
I think a lot of american motorists are out in their own delusional world detached from any semblance of reality...therefore, running over a human being on a bike is no big deal for them....cyclists are just a nuisance to them...i always slow down when bikees are crowding the road...especially if a nice looking lady is riding....Bob roll told me he use to carry rocks in his jersey when he rode in the bay area....good idea! rj
|
|
james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2010 - 01:52am PT
|
The "reality" is that you are riding on the road, cars go on the road, it's dangerous.
On any summer day hundreds of bikers ride up Donner Summit and then once to the top they take a victory lap back down. I can count the number of times on one hand that I've seen riders ride single file or for that matter acknowledge that a 5,000 lb truck is coming up behind them. I've also had riders pass me on the way down. Once again, you are on the road, it's dangerous, follow the rules, just like you expect those moron drivers to do.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2010 - 02:34am PT
|
the road doesn't have to be dangerous... motorists and bicyclists could share the road. I find that motorists often believe that the bicyclist is really not an intended user of the roads.
Does it really matter if you have to slow down behind a bicyclist for a 100 yards?
Or be cautious while driving on a windy mountain road?
Or do the speed limit, and obey the double-yellow line?
Motorists have the advantage of size in any encounter, and can intimidate bicyclists, and do, to get their way on the roads. Where I bike, the ratio on my commute to work, 6 miles, is roughly 1 bike to 300 cars. I can never understand why motorists are so angry at so few bicyclists... but many are.
When I drive I try to be very careful around bicyclists, as I would hope motorists would be to me when I bike. Don't crowd them, slow down behind them if they are taking up the road (probably for some good reason like a bad edge, glass, etc) and try not to cut them off by racing around them and turning in front of them. It's not going to delay me very much on my drive, and it's safer for them.
When I bike I try to be defensive, and anticipate being out of the motorists' way, but sometimes you have to take the lane. When you do, it would be nice to have the motorists respect that and slow down behind you for just the short time you need to.
Sharing the road does not mean tolerating the existence of the other users as long as they don't get in your way.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2010 - 03:15am PT
|
Well put, Ed, although the biggest dangers to bikers in Fresno are pedestrians who insist on walking or running in the bike lanes when adjacent to a sidewalk. I had a particularly unpleasant encounter with one about ten years ago. She was jogging toward me and refused to move out of the lane. Although I always ride with a rear-view mirror on my helmet, I did not appreciate being forced out of the bike lane into traffic, so I simply stopped and informed her that she should not be there.
I got a lecture about how I was operating a vehicle, and she was a pedestrian, so she had the right-of-way. The only problem with her reasoning was, of course, that the Vehicle Code says the opposite. Section 21966 states "No pedestrian shall proceed along a bicycle path or lane where there is an adjacent adequate facility." In addition, Section 21954(a) states; "Every pedestrian upon a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway so near as to constitute an immediate hazard."
I guess this illustrates the old saw about a little knowledge. Pedestrians have the right-of-way at intersections and in crosswalks only. She remembered that pedestrians have the right-of-way, period.
Section 21200 states in part, "Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle . . .except those provisions which by their very nature can have no provision." Thus, we have the same rights to the road as a car, but we also have the same responsibilities, e.g., not to impede the flow of traffic. Specifically, Section 21202 provides in part, "Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway . . . ."
Common sense and common courtesy are what both motorists and cyclists need. Since a car will always "win" in a crash with a bicycle, we need to be the ones who are extra-vigilant. If we allow impeded traffic to pass as quickly as possible (whether we're driving or pedaling), we do much to alleviate road rage. This idea that it's my right, so I can be rude, whether by a motorist, cyclist or pedestrian, is despicable.
John
|
|
okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2010 - 08:36am PT
|
Wish I could ride a bike- but I gotta drive the freeways every day. When I lived in Santa Cruz I rode everywhere-really miss those days, a simpler life.
For my part I was always a conservative rider, taking the safest line...didn't care much for helmets, or luxuries like night lights, reflectors...the worst danger at night was from the left turners...and there's always the dreaded...DOOR opening on a parked car!
Things I've had thrown at me: all forms of garbage, rocks, a tomato, a baseball...just to mention a few...Weekends were the worst- a high jackass factor.
|
|
Jim E
climber
away
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2010 - 10:09am PT
|
A certain colorful North Conway character grew tired of being harassed by motorists on his training rides to the point where he began riding with a very LARGE caliber hand gun tucked into the back of his riding shorts. I don't believe he had any more problems other than chafing.
|
|
james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
|
|
|
Apr 28, 2010 - 11:37am PT
|
I agree that commuter bikers are less obtrusive than the recreationalist. I've lived in Boston, San Francisco, and Chico, never owning a car, and riding a bike or a skateboard daily.
I think it is a concern that cyclists ride three abreast with the assumption that the cars should still give a wide birht for them. I find this slightly arrogant behavior.
Ed your right, it doesn't have to be dangerous but doesn't breaking the law increase the dangers?
I once recieved three tickets for blowing off stop signs, all within a 24 hr period in Chico.
|
|
72hw
Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
|
|
That's interesting news regarding NYPD settlement!
I ride every day and have more than once chased drivers down once they've stopped a lights after they attempt to murder, clip or otherwise place me in danger. I love it when their windows are down and they can hear me scream the laws at them - the look on passengers faces is priceless. I always remind my friends who bike commute that bikes do not have license plates - even made a graphic to drive home the point:
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2010 - 09:16pm PT
|
Avid Bicyclists might want to look into local groups such as this, one of the very few groups of which I am a member;
East Bay Bicycle Coalition
http://www.ebbc.org/
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2011 - 06:28am PT
|
Be careful out there!
I almost nailed a bike with my car this morning here in Moab.
|
|
wayne burleson
climber
Amherst, MA (currently in Lutry, CH)
|
|
|
Apr 14, 2011 - 08:32am PT
|
In Switzerland, bikes are so integrated into the society
that you can get a DUI on your bike. I know someone
who got nailed. The weird thing is it is just a fine
and has no impact on his driver's license or record.
Does this make sense?
It's a bit of a disincentive for the person who is
debating riding their bike or driving while UI.
And presumably you are less of a risk to others while
on a bike rather than in a car.
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
|
Apr 14, 2011 - 11:55am PT
|
that you can get a DUI on your bike
Hell, you can get that in the Valley or most american cities for that matter. No need to go all the way to Swizzy.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2011 - 12:16pm PT
|
That is, weird.
You can get a DUI on a bike in the states, too, though.
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
|
Apr 14, 2011 - 12:25pm PT
|
In Switzerland, bikes are so integrated into the society
that you can get a DUI on your bike. I know someone
who got nailed. The weird thing is it is just a fine
and has no impact on his driver's license or record.
My understanding is that a DUI on a bike in this country does count on your driver's license record. I have no problem making it a crime, but I don't see why driving under the influence on a bike should jack up the person's car insurance. The cyclist made a previous obvious choice to not be in a car...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Apr 14, 2011 - 12:34pm PT
|
As I recall,
Klaus got a DUI walking his bike .....
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Apr 14, 2011 - 12:41pm PT
|
It may actually have been Jaybro who first posted this one.
|
|
Urizen
Ice climber
Berkeley, CA
|
|
|
Feb 28, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
|
My flat bars are long, and they have no handgrips. Anyone driving a vehicle that strays too far into the zone is going home with some totally top-drawer creases and scratches in it.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Feb 28, 2013 - 11:40pm PT
|
I've been tempted to install some sharp pointy steel in the bar ends to dissuade the side-swipers.
As far as the recreational bikers go; Why is it with only maybe a half dozen blind corners in 35 miles or so on the entire San Gabriel River trail, those are the ONLY places that they pick to stop for water, adjustments or kid issues?
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
^^^^ And then imagine the stuff they do after they load their bikes back onto their cars.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
A friend of mine (BIG into road biking, not a noob) just got run off the road by an angry driver. The guy pulled up and started yelling at him, then swerved and ran him off the road. Apparently that has been happening quite a bit. I'd start carrying bear spray and the second they start yelling... blind the fukers at 30 mph!
|
|
martygarrison
Trad climber
Washington DC
|
|
I commute across DC everyday. It is actually faster than driving in this town. I never yell at the drivers as the likely hood of getting my ass beat or shot is actually fairly high.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
I do not go to the city very often,but,bicycle commuting around here has finally entered the new millenium.Bike lanes,Greenways and bike advocacy have opened new worlds around Rochester.Its not Vancouver,but it is good.I live 25 miles from downtown,i can ride 20 of that on a greenway,only crossing a few roads.I work in a bike shop and we have pushed hard for these improvements.
CONTINUE ADVOCACY!IT WORKS
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
|
|
Gotta design cities for the long term. Most city streets are more than 100 years old, designed for horses but we still use them. 100 years from now how much oil is going to be left? There will be a lot of downsizing, bike riding and smaller cars like those 3 wheelers in India. Car lanes and bike lanes may not be the answer since the car situation will change. We don't want to turn into asia or India (no offense to anyone but asian traffic is crazy) but need to think about the future. I'd say use the whole road but downsize the vehicles on it, maybe regulate or tax cars by how much they weigh, at least in city centers. The bike lanes are good but in the long run I don't think having separate roads is the solution.
|
|
hossjulia
Trad climber
Where the Hoback and the mighty Snake River meet
|
|
I was sooooo excited to get my Lightspeed a few years ago. had been jonseing for one for years. Rode like a dream, loved it! I found out in no time that I hated riding with cars. Damn near every time I took it out, I had a close call. And I tend to ride in the middle of the right side of the lane so I'm not so easy to squeeze by. Worst was coming back out of Tuolumne. Had 2 big RV rigs pass me. The 2nd one never saw me and damn near took me out with the back end of the trailer. So I switched to 395, then the bike paths in Jackson Hole. Blah. Figured out that when I'm "out", I don't want to be near a road and cars. I sold it. I like hiking out in the woods and mountains better.
Right of way as I know it;
1. Horse
2. Pedestrian
3. Bicycle or other human powered.
4. Cars
5. Big Rigs
Horses are at top because they can be unpredictable.
And yes, if you have 5 or more cars behind you, you can be ticketed for obstruction. We all know that driving slowly causes unsafe passing behavior. Get over it and pull off when you can.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2013 - 10:38am PT
|
Haha good to see this has legs (wheels?) 3 years down the road, though it's too bad the problems seem to be about the same....
Jebus, I did a lot of bike /Bart commuting even after my bike was stem, while locked at a Bart station. My new bike has a beefier retention system.
These days I'm in Moab where the traffic is sparser, though every time I ride the slickrock on my hardtail I Jones one of those D-lux double squish bikes!
|
|
drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
|
|
I'd been saving up my rant for three years.
Had to bump it from the depths.
Speaking of bumps- Tucson's asphalt is like f*#king tectonic plates.
I don't know how the fixie kids or road cyclists do it, I'm happy to have suspension.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
My rant.....the Boulder Sunday morning peletons should learn to share the road.
|
|
weezy
climber
|
|
every time I ride the slickrock on my hardtail I Jones one of those D-lux double squish bikes!
hah jaybro, everytime i ride slickrock on my heavy squishy bike, i jones for my hardtail. nothing like trying to bounce up those brutal steeps on a 40 lb beast with 7" of rear travel absorbing all the hard work.
since this is a rant thread, i would like to extend a middle finger to that juniper branch that reached out and grabbed my arm and almost sent me into the rocks the other day. try that again and see what happens. get my hand saw and bring the thunder down on your stupid tree ass.
|
|
michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
|
|
Dey gon' took er' guns!
|
|
portent
climber
|
|
The rules of the road™, say that you treat a bike with the same space requirements as a car, you don't tailgate, you don't crowd. If you need to pass, you wait for the opportunity, and patiently drive slower, until then., remember that a bike will stop a lot faster than you in your car will, plan accordingly!
They also say bikers should stop at stop signs and abide by the speed limit, but I don't see that happening too much in your end of the woods.
Bikes vs. Cars is like the conflict between Israel and Palestine. There is no solution.
|
|
tornado
climber
lawrence kansas
|
|
It is shocking how many bicyclists feel a sense of entitlement and self righteousness when they are totally ignorant of basic traffic laws. The one I most common encounter is getting yelled at for making a right hand turn and pulling into the bike lane 50 feet from the intersection to do it. Somehow many cyclists feel that this is "their lane:".
This morning I encountered this situation and had some 20 something hipster kick my car, call me a motherf*#ker and to get out of "her f*#king lane". She then made a right hand turn in front of me . I caught up with her at the next intersection, rolled down my window, and politely informed her she should read up on traffic laws. I then got a barrage of f*#k you mother f*#ker again and again. Oh well. So here it is in case any of you bicycle advocates out there are confused about right hand turns and bike lanes. Getting in a car' s blind spot in the bicycle lane will get you f*#ked up.http://www.sfbike.org/?bikelane_right_turn
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
The lanes have led to a safer more civil environment for everyone in the city by lowering the tension between motor vehicle drivers and bike riders:
Sad to say, Jim, not necessarily. We've had superb bike lanes going up Auberry Road out of Fresno for years, and yet I'm still confronted with peletons on the weekends at times.
Hossjulia's post about rights-of-way makes me think it's worthwhile to re-post what I posted three years ago, when I encountered a particularly obnoxious jogger insisting on using the bike lane rather than the adjacent sidewalk:
I got a lecture about how I was operating a vehicle, and she was a pedestrian, so she had the right-of-way. The only problem with her reasoning was, of course, that the Vehicle Code says the opposite. Section 21966 states "No pedestrian shall proceed along a bicycle path or lane where there is an adjacent adequate facility." In addition, Section 21954(a) states; "Every pedestrian upon a roadway at any point other than within a marked crosswalk or within an unmarked crosswalk at an intersection shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles upon the roadway so near as to constitute an immediate hazard."
I guess this illustrates the old saw about a little knowledge. Pedestrians have the right-of-way at intersections and in crosswalks only. She remembered that pedestrians have the right-of-way, period.
Section 21200 states in part, "Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle . . .except those provisions which by their very nature can have no provision." Thus, we have the same rights to the road as a car, but we also have the same responsibilities, e.g., not to impede the flow of traffic. Specifically, Section 21202 provides in part, "Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway . . . ."
And no, portent, the cars vs. bicycles battle is not like the Palestinian-Israeli conflict; the car always wins. For that reason, I've always cycled accordingly, kept my eyes and ears wide open, and never had even a close call with a car.
I still say Fresno has been a wonderful town for urban cycling, and it's only getting better as we have added many, many excellent bike lanes to our arterial streets.
John
|
|
portent
climber
|
|
And no, portent, the cars vs. bicycles battle is not like the Palestinian-Israeli conflict; the car always wins.
That's true. I didn't say there was no winner, just no solution.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
Nothing compares to the first day of classes at UC Davis. There is something very special about the oil from the olive trees coating the streets, eskiho's riding 3 wide, round-a-bouts, and a light rain.
Grab a cup of coffee at the Silo, pull up a chair, and let the fun begin!
|
|
michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
|
|
I see way more dumbass bikers then cars.
Like a car vs car scenario, if a car wants to make a left turn and cross a lane or two of incoming traffic, they'll judge wether or not it's gonna be safe to go or not.
Most cars making a right turn ahead of a bike can judge if they're far enough ahead to complete the turn or not.
I see a lot of bikers on my commute to work. It's a very busy biking / car road. Direct line from many neighborhoods to midtown Sacramento.
I see bikers riding opposing traffic. I see bikers riding on the side walk. (My coworker has gotten hit by two bikers in the last month making a left turn into a liquor store from K street to 21st.
Bikers DO feel entitled (I'M SAVING THE PLANET BRO! I'M A PEDEISRICLE!" My word. And f*ck hipsters. They block bike lanes with their shitty fixed geared bikes.
|
|
jbaker
Trad climber
Redwood City, CA
|
|
There are certainly idiots on bikes, but studies in both Hawaii and Australia have shown that over 80% of the time the car driver is at fault in car/bike accidents. The most common scenario is that the bicycle is going in a straight line in the direction of traffic and is hit by a turning car.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
"i see way more dumbass bikers than cars"
Well here in New York ,cyclists are part of traffic,yet they are not part of no fault. So if you hit a cyclist in N.Y. ,your insurance company says you are on your own.Depending on your instance,you can lose everything you own.Seeing how there is at least 50 to one cars over cyclists,and an awfull lot of bike/car accidents,i tend to totally disagree with you.
well said Jebus
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
There are certainly idiots on bikes, but studies in both Hawaii and Australia have shown that over 80% of the time the car driver is at fault in car/bike accidents. The most common scenario is that the bicycle is going in a straight line in the direction of traffic and is hit by a turning car.
If Brock Wagstaff is on this forum, I'd be interested to hear his take on this. In 1974 or so, he was a bicycle planner in Fresno, while my long-time climbing partner, Tim Schiller, was working for the Fresno County Council of Governments. At the time, most car/bicycle accidents in Fresno were of bicycles turning into the path of cars rather than the other way around.
John
|
|
michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
|
|
"i see way more dumbass bikers than cars"
Well here in New York ,cyclists are part of traffic,yet they are not part of no fault. So if you hit a cyclist in N.Y. ,your insurance company says you are on your own.Depending on your instance,you can lose everything you own.Seeing how there is at least 50 to one cars over cyclists,and an awfull lot of bike/car accidents,i tend to totally disagree with you.
How can you disagree with my statement, if you're talking about New York?
What the f*ck?
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
The cars or their drivers should smarten the f*ck up,thats how,despite whether or not the cyclists are dumbasses or not.It does not matter that the cyclists are dumb or not.[and yes i know some are idiots]
|
|
rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
cyclists ain't getting no respect in this world until we arm-up. I wouldn't mess with these girls even if I was driving a 1974 low-rider ford truck with a 460 engine.
and here's my commuter cycle - no trouble so far
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
|
|
One time I was driving on a winding road, a car pulls out of a driveway and surprises me, I hit the breaks but dont think I skid. I didnt even know it but a motorcycle was right behind me. It was a guy on a brand new $20k harley davidson goldwing who worked for the dealership and was delivering it to the customer. So I hit the breaks and the next thing I know, thump thump thump, I come to a stop and this guy comes rolling off the roof of my car onto the front hood then onto the road in front of me. I was stopped by then but was really confused and thought I was running him over. My car wasn't scratched at all, the guy was ok, but the bike was totaled. It doesn't take much.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
There's a whole class of weapons from the late 19th and early 20th century known as "Bicycle Pistols" Generaly small caliber revolvers with extra features that enhanced portability like hammerless actions and folding triggers.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
|
|
What's the big touring bike I'm thinking of with the big saddlebags? I called it a goldwing but am not too knowledgeable about them.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
A cyclist nearly got me killed. He had no idea what he did wrong, even when I explained it to him. There is a traffic light at that intersection now, but cyclist ignore it and still cause accidents.
There are a whole lot of ignorant dumb asses out there. Since there are more autos on the road, they out number the cyclist. But stupid is stupid. In an auto or on a cycle.
|
|
rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
32,000 people killed every year in the USA in auto accidents. And some people are wagging their bony fingers at cyclists for not stopping at stop signs. ha
Personally, I always look carefully (I know, I'm the one who will die if I miss judge) and never stop if there is no cross traffic. It really pisses drivers off I know. get over it. It takes more energy to stop and start on a bicycle then it does to continue to cruse uninterrupted for another 1/2 mile. doesn't make sense to stop just for the sake of following the letter of the law. But that's just me.. ha
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
That cool rockermike. The next time a cyclist rides in front of me coming from a sidewalk where he was going the opposite direction of traffic while I am making a left on a busy highway.. I will just run him over rather then risk my life to keep from hitting him.
my life versus that fact that its harder to stop and start a bicycle. hmmm. sorry. you lose.
And by the way.. I don't give a sh#t if someone bends a few rules now and then, but they damn well better know what they are doing when they do it.
|
|
michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
|
|
rockermike
32,000 people killed every year in the USA in auto accidents. And some people are wagging their bony fingers at cyclists for not stopping at stop signs. ha
Personally, I always look carefully (I know, I'm the one who will die if I miss judge) and never stop if there is no cross traffic. It really pisses drivers off I know. get over it. It takes more energy to stop and start on a bicycle then it does to continue to cruse uninterrupted for another 1/2 mile. doesn't make sense to stop just for the sake of following the letter of the law. But that's just me.. ha
John M
That cool rockermike. The next time a cyclist rides in front of me coming from a sidewalk where he was going the opposite direction of traffic while I am making a left on a busy highway.. I will just run him over rather then risk my life to keep from hitting him.
my life versus that fact that its harder to stop and start a bicycle. hmmm. sorry. you lose.
And by the way.. I don't give a sh#t if someone bends a few rules now and then, but they damn well better know what they are doing when they do it.
Whoa man John M, easy there bud. I run lights after looking both ways and making sure it is safe. I don't haul ass through them. I slow down to a California stop at the vest least to make absolute sure there is no traffic. If a car in my lane is making a right, I let them go. As the law of traffic should be.
I don't think rockermike is hauling complete ass blindly into cross-way traffic to save energy. He's saving energy by making a safe cross, without stopping.
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
And some people are wagging their bony fingers at cyclists for not stopping at stop signs. ha
If he wasn't speaking to me, then thats cool. But if he is trying to say I shouldn't complain when someone risks my life, then he can ......
I am more then willing to share the road. I use to ride. I was just trying to say that its not a one way street. There are stupid people who drive and there are stupid cyclists. It still gives me the willies to think how close I came to getting creamed by an 18 wheeler.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
Time to flame away on this politician.
He thinks bikes give off more CO2 than cars and should be taxed accordingly.
WTF
Reminds me of Rush Limbaugh explaining that the problems in the US healthcare industry were the result of costs generated by treating thrill-seekers like rock climbers when they got injured.
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Riding along PCH in Huntington Beach when i catch up to an older snobbish , yuppie couple with shiny , expensive litespeeds..They had matching swiss national team kits on and seemed annoyed that i was drafting them while invading their Sunday victory lap thru HB...?
....Then we are stopped by a red traffic light with no cars in sight for miles...I look both ways to make sure there's no po po or traffic and take off...As i roll away , the well dressed lady takes a parting shot at me and screeches at me in a whiny voice " dirty rider "....Can't wait to get back on the dirt...
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
|
Lets not get to this point!
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Whoa man John M, easy there bud. I run lights after looking both ways and making sure it is safe.
Michael, are you doing that in California? If so, you need to look behind you, too. I've seen a great increase in red light running by cyclists and pedestrians both, mostly imports into California from parts east where right-turn-on-red is illegal.
What most red-light violators on foot or pedal ignore is that the right-turn-on-red option can kill a jaywalker(or jayrider [No personal implication meant, Jaybro!]), because the car turning right is concentrating on oncoming traffic, not on the person crossing illegally to his or her right.
John
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Yeah, I almost broad-sided a Bobcat when I blew through an unmarked stream crossing*.
Man, was he pissed!
*On a mt bike, mind you.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
|
|
Drljefe,you sure are right.It is hard to believe.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 4, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
|
Do people like that guy have absolutely no, self awareness?
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
I went out for a walk on Monday morning. Bike after bike after bike. More people are being forced to use bikes as transportation due to losing licenses, it seems like, as well as more people "baking an obivious green statement" and putting it where their mouths are. Yummy!
In France bicycles have their own code of conduct and a portion of driver's ed. is dedicated to bicycles and the rights they have on the road. Everybody is required to learn this. We could certainly benefit from that approach here as more and more people are attracted to bikes for general transportation purposes. In the Merced County Times yesterday I read a bit of an article on re-vamping parts of our bike path, extending the "sharrow lanes" and a bicycle awareness program by a local club aimed at drivers.
As to the above rider, the law says no bikes on sidewalks on Main St. It can be a $100 fine. We have "bike cops" who patrol irregularly downtown. It is clearly illegal for the rider to do what he's doing, but it happens ALL THE TIME! I've even done it a few dozen times myself...
No kidding, this was just yesterday morning in about one hour's worth of walking. It just happened and here's this rant. (Not really much of one, I'll agree.)
As it also just happened, Tommy, the guy in the first shot, was on his way to a bike show someplace and he came by and shined his bike up with glass cleaner and paper towels and we split a 40.
DY-NO-MITE!
|
|
hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
When me on bike screams, yells, hollers at you in car milliseconds after what is usually a sudden unexpected "oh shit" I'm gonna die or get real messed up moment, it's less about anger than just plain fear. Kind of like those uncontrolled yelps if you take an unexpected whipper, or jumping out of your seat when the monster jumps out from behind the corner during a scary movie. Then after you take your first breath that's when you want to to throttle the inattentive and/or aggressive person behind the wheel. All sorts of idiots are out there, most but not all of them in cars. I would guess that most drivers are fairly clueless about the destructive power in their hands, and it doesn't matter whether Rush Limbaugh or NPR is on the dial because this dangerous ignorance crosses all spectrums. Those of us who know firsthand or have seen the nightmarish immediate aftermath know, if not haunted by what happens when a couple tons of metal, usually travelling at a high rate of speed, meets mere flesh and bone. I try to be a considerate rider and I don't intentionally hog a lane to be a dick, but if I am riding a little faster than you can jog and there are parked cars next to the curb then I take the lane and you my friend can wait or go around me. Anyone who has been doored knows what I am saying here. I'm all for peace in the streets especially since I the bike rider will more than likely suffer the brunt of any ill outcome. Just give me space, pay the f*#k attention to the task at hand...I'm wondering, has there ever been a Critical Mass style ride in the Valley?
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
My rant on urban bike trails from another thread.
Speaking of bike trails,
Why doesn't anyone on a bike know what TRACK means?
And when they want to pass they always say something unintelligible that gives no clue as to their intention.
Then there are the hazards.
We'll discount the family with kids, except to mention that on a 90 mi trail with only four blind corners, that's exactly where they will stop to deal with juvenile problems.
Then there's the informal club race peloton. The teenage as#@&%e drivers of the bike world. (But with a faster bike no longer a problem ;-)
The bike date;
The guy is always trying to keep alongside his intended prey chatting her up, our of shape enough that he's barely in control and completely oblivious to his surroundings.
Single hottie in the peloton;
The absolute worst!
She will attract an orbit of suitors like a uranium nucleus traps electrons, all swarming around her in testosterone fueled obliviousness, changing orbits with complete randomness.
I think I'd rather take my chances with MTA bus drivers.
(end of rant);-)
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2014 - 09:55pm PT
|
Just checking in to mention that my urban bike commute in Moab , is way better and safer than it was in Berzerkely.... Much as I love that town too!
|
|
hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
I'll never forget the time while stopped on my bike at an intersection in SF a car driver rolled down his window and directed a mini tirade against bikes in my direction. He ended with the opinion that I as a bike rider should have to carry insurance, so that in the event of a collision with him my policy could pay for the damage to his car. Wow! My reply to him was an apology that my dried blood would mess up the finish of his paint job. He was serious too.
|
|
tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2014 - 03:33am PT
|
i was riding down from the valley to el portal. at the entrance gate i stopped and let all the cars pass so i wouldn't have anyone behind me. in the 25 mph turns, i was going at least 30 in the middle of the lane. a car comes up behind me beeping and driving close. i look back and stay in the middle because it is too curvy to see around the turns for someone to pass safely and i am going at least five miles an hour over the speed limit. the car continues to beep so i ride the white line...which i find scary going that fast in that area because there are often rocks on the road. he passes me right away. of course a car comes from the other direction, so he over corrects and comes within six inches of my front tire. my heart was beating so fast. what an ahole.
that guy with the cameras is awesome!
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2014 - 07:28pm PT
|
I think there's a bit of envy involved with the road rage , when motorists stuck in gridlock , see a cyclist squeezing by and making progress....? rj
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
|
More than a bit!
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
|
|
|
Jul 20, 2014 - 04:24pm PT
|
|
|
Chris Cunningham
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Jul 20, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
|
I will wade into the cesspool of off climbing topics.
I have been a near daily bike rider in SF for 26 years...I have never been hit by a car. Lucky? No. I just follow my own rules.
Red lights don't stop cars.
Never get in the way of a car.
Never let a car come up behind (or almost behind) you.
Be prepared mentally to steer your bike without braking into a curb, sidewalk or over parked cars at any moment.
The laws of physics are not subject to legislation; are unaffected by intention and can be used to protect yourself.
There are many ways to die on a bicycle. This includes getting shot in the head by a pissed-off pedestrian.
Here a little vid for the people who believe the SF Bike Coalition, paint on the roadway, helmets, rules, mirrors etc protect you the bicyclist.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dfe_1405725184
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Jul 20, 2014 - 09:30pm PT
|
Wow, Chris, that was really grim footage. I related to the helpless feeling of a collapsed lung--I was involved with/nailed by a driver a year or so back and recall only just barely feeling able to occupy the space I had there on the sidewalk.
It's about all a guy can do is to lie there trying to gasp for air and know you're gonna go into shock and maybe, just maybe, cash'em in.
Car drivers just can't even conceive of this until they are pinned in the wreckage themselves one day.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2014 - 06:07am PT
|
Could not agree more MFM.
Hope that dude is allright.
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2014 - 08:55am PT
|
You choose to do a hobby that A) is boring B) makes you have week spaghetti arms C) probably you wear silly outfits. Put the bike away and grab a few kettle bells like a man, why you wanna play chicken with steel so bad home boy?!?!?
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2014 - 09:50am PT
|
Wilbeer...Figures your running mustache bars...ha, ha...rj
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2014 - 10:07am PT
|
Why do the costume riders in many parts of the foothills act as though they have MORE rights than autos?
*The cardinal rule with my kids is that cars outweigh you by a hundred times and there is no winning in a crash with a car.
No matter what the rules are, GET THE F*#K OUT OF THE WAY, GET OVER, GET SKINNY, GET SAFE, when cars are coming.
There is no rule or law that can bring you or your kids life back.....
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2014 - 11:44am PT
|
Good advice on surviving while riding a bike...here's more advice...Cars have power steering and brakes which allow the driver to slow and pass cyclists....True , cyclists riding abreast can be annoying but i always give them extra space by steering to the left and slowing...Sometimes i stop to see if they need water...It's not that hard to be courteous to cyclist even when they are blowing it...rj
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2014 - 08:20pm PT
|
Excellent comments everyone!
Sweet bike wilbeer.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Jul 21, 2014 - 08:27pm PT
|
We have a report of a bicyclist meltdown on Hwy 395 Northbound blocking what traffic there is. All units respond.
|
|
Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2014 - 06:47am PT
|
May I summarize this thread?
Urban bikers don't follow the rules and piss everyone off.
Urban bikers then complain that drivers yell at them.
Urban bikers need to pull their wadded panties out of their butt cracks.
|
|
steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2014 - 07:08am PT
|
Or you could say it this way...
Drivers don't follow the rules and piss everyone off.
Drivers then complain that cyclists don't follow the rules.
Drivers need to pull their wadded panties out of their big fat oversized butt cracks.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
|
|
|
Jul 22, 2014 - 09:11am PT
|
For,SLR.
"Even bikers don't like bikers"....LOL
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2014 - 09:36pm PT
|
Bicyclists have a lane to themselves.
One reason that bicyclists use the sidewalk on Main, it's shady during the heat of the afternoon.
About eight or nine years ago I'd gotten a ticket for sidewalk riding, but I'd only hit the sidewalk and dismounted to walk it to a bike rack when a bicycle officer, who was busy writing one ticket to another rider, told me to hold on and go over to the other officer who had just finished citing yet another rider!
I had been mounted on the bike on the sidewalk for not even five feet when I dismounted and saw the policeman. Later, when I pled my case in Municipal Court, Judge Quall gave me a $50 fine, suspended, and had a good chuckle.
|
|
Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
|
|
|
Jul 23, 2014 - 09:44pm PT
|
3 words.. fu.cking Palo Alto
|
|
kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2014 - 09:36am PT
|
i too once got a ticket for riding my bike on a sidewalk in downtown SF. it was late at night, i had just gotten off work and was riding through the Tenderloin to bart. At the upcoming intersection, a very busy one, i noticed there was a cop car parked in the middle of the bike lane on the upcoming block. Noticing how many cars are waiting to go once the light changes, and the lack of space for me to go when they do also, due to the cop car, i began to look for options. i spotted the 20+ foot wide sidewalk that was entirely empty. deciding to avoid the police cars blocking maneuver i rode up onto the sidewalk, very clearly, for my own safety. interestingly enough, as soon as i did so 6 cops very quickly came out of, seeming to me, nowhere. I was, most obviously, pulled over for riding on the sidewalk, and also riding ( this night specifically only ) without lights. The cops proceeded to put me up against the wall, check me for weapons, check my id, check my bag ( i know i coulda said no but i had nothing to hide and was feeling pretty intimidated after being pushed up against the wall for the personal search ). They tried to get me to pay this big sidewalk ticket, but i was having none of that. I went to court and contested, to simply have the whole ordeal thrown out. Long story short, as an urban cyclist, there are rules, and i DO believe in following them; however, there are exceptions to all rules, given the right context, I believe.
|
|
John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2014 - 09:53am PT
|
Cops hate bicycles. Have to accept that. Here in NYC, you sit on the sidewalk and they're not supposed to beat the sh#t outta you. So no matter what you get busted for, sit on the sidewalk, take the effing ticket and beat it in court.
So after 9/11, the tourist biz, went totally south, I was on a packed subway and I understood enough Spanish to know they'd all been laid off from one of the hotels. Super depressing. So like a miracle, The Republicans booked their convention here and things turned around soon after. It was a huge vote of confidence.
I was in a weird part of life and my then urban bike club was "Critical Mass". I'd been delighted when the Republicans booked the convention, but CM had an enormous demonstration planned, and I went with my friends. It was glorious. Places it would be your life to ride normally, were ours for a night. I saw all the famous TV talking heads out there watching it.
Later that night, the cops herded it into the tight streets of the village segmented it, threw nets over groups of people and started busting them like cattle. It was the way they threw the bikes in a heap that got me.
When they netted the people next to me, I went through a sidewalk cafe, with my bike over my head, telling everyone "Welcome to New York" while they watched the carnage. Went through the restaurant and out the service door.
|
|
cowpoke
climber
|
|
my urban terrain, Boston, often makes top ten lists for most unfriendly to bikers...for which I have a couple personal validation experiences: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/1257141/End-to-my-climbing-season-Advice-and-sympathy-troll
I've been thinking it would be cool to have a cycling version of the waze app (maybe even directly connected to waze data), with part of the option algorithm being route safety factors...dynamically calculated based on numbers of drivers, number of bikers, etc. there are plenty of cyclometer apps, but does anyone know of any good route finding apps for urban cycling?
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
http://graphics.latimes.com/la-bike-hit-and-runs/
Graphic on second page overlaid with Stravada heat map.
http://www.bikeforums.net/southern-california/983611-accidents-will-happen.html
It was endlessly drummed into my head that no matter how much you sped or didn't, any sense of gaining on others was eclipsed by the first stop light. Everyone you passed in the last 45 minutes were lined up at the same red light with you. Fast or slow, the journey was always the same time within a 3 minute space, spread out over an hour of speeding, passing or doing the limit.
Time doesn't matter when you drive a car.
Same thing applies on a bike and I think this is what triggers rage in some drivers. No mater how fast they go, they see you along side them at every red light.
Then there's the spatial awareness issue. I'm convinced that about 10% of the population doesn't have any. They literally don't know where the side of their car is.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
The rules of the road™, say that you treat a bike with the same space requirements as a car, you don't tailgate, you don't crowd. If you need to pass, you wait for the opportunity, and patiently drive slower, until then., remember that a bike will stop a lot faster than you in your car will, plan accordingly!
You probably will never get a ticket for this reckless behavior, but the life you save be avoiding it, may very well be mine!
End of Rant.
I ride a bike, drive a car, and walk.
The rules of the road in Oregon also say that a bike has to obey all traffic laws and some additional ones.
If there is a bike lane, you are obligated to use it unless it is not possible for safety reasons.
You are obligated to signal turns also unless that is not possible for safety reasons.
You are obligated to stop for a pedestrian in a crosswalk or within six feet of the lane he/she is in. No exceptions.
A rolling stop ( Boise stop) is legal in Boise. It is not legal here. You must come to a complete stop. Wait for your turn at a four way stop whether you are in a car or on a bike. If you ride a fixi maybe you can do that without unclipping, but on a normal bike most people can't. That's how you know if you are doing it.
if you are on a bike cars will see you better at a four way if you take up the whole lane. To be fair, a lot of cars are doing the Boise stop if they stop at all.
You can't text or use a phone while riding a bike. Texting and Boise stops aren't a good combination. Your head should be on a swivel, not on the phone screen.
You must have lights after sunset. Today that is at 4:20. Those bright annoying flashing superLED kind are illegal. Buy and use them anyway. No cop will stop you.
Find another color clothing besides black. At least get some reflective tape.
If you are on a bike, even just coasting on a pedal, you are not a pedestrian. Don't expect the pedestrian rules apply. Get off the bike and walk it in the crosswalk if you must. It is a signal to others.
Passing on the right is illegal even if you are in a bike lane. Nobody begrudges a bike doing that in normal traffic, but for god's sake don't pass a car on the right in an intersection when it is signaling for a right turn. I have taken to obstructing the bike lane when I am turning right. Completely illegal. I do it anyway so I don't kill some kid who isn't paying attention. I'd rather get a ticket than buy flowers.
And Portland is routinely voted the most bike friendly city in the country. It is well earned. There is a designated bike STREET one block over from most arterials ( I live on one). The intersections are controlled to favor bike traffic and speed limits are lower. Don't use the busy arterials unless you like playing Russian roulette.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
Survival strategy on a bike is a good concept. Fender benders with cars usually don't turn out well. They just get scratched paint.
You might find it works out OK to follow traffic rules even if a cop isn't around.
|
|
Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
|
|
Nice bike Naitch!
When I was 17 or so, I took off from a red light with a bunch of cars. This lady next to me decides to hang a right in to the next driveway after the light, only thing was, I was riding right next to her.
So, she plows into me, knocking me off my bike. In the process I took off her passenger side mirror with my left arm.
She gets out of the car, and the first thing she says is, "look what you did to my mirror!". I quickly responded with, "look what you did to my arm", as I held up my bloodied forearm. That pretty much shut her up. I still have the scar.
If the same thing happened to me today, I'd sue her ass!
These days I mostly ride off road. Never trust a driver.
|
|
Bad Climber
climber
|
|
+20 for Naitch's ride! Love it.
Reading these stories makes me so glad I don't live in the city! Ugh. Very occasionally I have a minor pass-to-close kind of thing, but generally, here in the wastes of Tehachistan, we got few problems.
BAd
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
|
|
Probably not Urban.
You could rant about this.
But it is definitely about Bikes.[Click to View YouTube Video]
HS.
Sweet bike,Naitch,like the 5 piece fork.Rohloff Hub?
|
|
cowpoke
climber
|
|
air horns taped to my handlebars not a bad idea for Boston. would help bikers integrate into the honking culture. and would be super funny to watch drivers jump with surprise!
edit: still wondering if any good apps for urban biking routes?
|
|
hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
Cars suck the spirit, life, & adventure out of your soul. The more time you spend in one the more this happens. Explains a lot about the general direction of society don't you think?
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Dec 7, 2014 - 10:22am PT
|
"Miller: The more you drive, the less intelligent you are."
-from Repo man
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
edit: still wondering if any good apps for urban biking routes?
That probably depends on wher you are. I typed "portland bike" and got 9 Apps in the App Store.
A couple appear to be for other cities as well. Notice the one partially in the picture center top shows a NYC map.
That isn't everything, though.
The official transit App, PDX Bus , has not only the bus and light rail maps, but maps of trails to transit stops and also the bike trails and traffic on the bike routes. Buss have racks and you can bring your bike on the trains. Not well organized, though.
Even Google Maps now has travel by bike as a route option. Includes traffic and travel times.
I haven't used it a lot, but sample routes I try keep you pretty much on good bike paths and in the better bike lanes. The one above is a pretty safe way through the heart of the city. It was the longest of three routes offered.
Edit> I see several transit apps nationwide include bike routes.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
Interesting points he raises, but he clearly has agendas he's spinning.
Here are just a couple
1) you should be wearing helmets in cars.
( yeas, probably you should. Nobody will . Nothing to do with bikes. For one thing cars have gone the airbag route. There are more debilitating injuries but fewer deaths per incident. Good or bad?)
( you can see the same trend in Combat injuries with modern helmets and armour. Nobody is saying soldiers shouldn't use them)
2) he shows pictures of families biking in Amsterdam without helmets.
( show me pictures of towheads on tandems on third avenue in NYC) traffic is different. The key is isolating 40 mph cars from 13 mph bikes. They don't mix and bike riders always lose in that comparison)
3) just as many people get hurt with helmets as without
( OK, here in portland compliance is over 90%. That means far fewer bicyclists per trip are getting head injuries. Plus, an ER surgeon friend tells me head trauma tends to be much more serious without a helmet. There is also that riders here tend to be young adults, also a risk population. Just as in climbing, twenty something's are invincible)
4) there are fewer bike riders than in 1990 in his city
( I'll wager the demographics is older than 1990. They ride less and can afford cars more. Helmets might not be the factor)
5) helmets are only tested for top impact.
( patently false in the usa. The Snell test has a rim component of testing.
http://www.helmets.org/standard.htm
Also, in the usa a helmet is tested for crashes at higher speeds than Europe ( 17 mph vs 20 kph( 12.43 mph) and this better reflects usa traffic. They tend towards lighter, thinner helmets. None of his data might be pertinent)
Those are just a few. I'd love to see more than a bullet point Ted talk, and with a Q&A
As an aside, when I started climbing NOBODY wore helmets rock climbing ( well, maybe one of the Longs). This summer I put one on at Cathedral Peak on a Saturday for the first time in my life on rock because of the crowds above me. I was grumbling the whole approach that Saturday was a bad idea, but we only get to Yosemite once a year. There are still a couple of the 50 crowded climbs I'd like to tick off before pampers.
I also took the route less(never?) travelled because all the ones on the topos were full and what I tried looked pretty moderate. It was only maybe 5.8.
I broke a loose hold, opened up my knee on a flake below, , and spun head first onto another flake. Broke the helmet. I hit hard enough I know I would have had serious head trauma. As it was, I finished the pitch, limped out and took myself to the hospital. It was probably the third lead fall in 40 years that wasn't with a piece at my chest.
His accounting would call that an injury with a helmet on.
There are things still in flux with bikes in Urban areas. We spent 100 years tailoring the traffic environment to cars. Some changes cost money. Here in Portland the trend is to bike streets that make driving a car a PIA, and isolated lanes with barriers to traffic. Sometimes that divider is the parked car lane or planters. But it often isn't possible, and I'm always amazed bikers still choose the arterials.
I'll bet Amsterdam has a lot more biking separated from cars.
Helmets have to be seen in the context of the riding environment.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
Climbers pour though that kind of data all the time. I'm always surprised Bikers don't. I am always amazed to see the fastest cyclists wearing the lightest helmets.
Which leads to the reverse phenomenon than his "cycle of fear" hypothesis. It is just as likely that wearing a helmet enables riskier behavior on a bike, both in speed and in the amount of other activities you might do while riding...ie running lights, texting, or darting through traffic.
That's not the helmets fault, it is learning to manage risk, just like in climbing.
( saw a car driver reading a newspaper in traffic today. It's not just bikers)
|
|
cowpoke
climber
|
|
Thanks, Lorenzo! Definitely feel guilty that I didn't find 2/3 of the apps you knew of, so thanks for all of that. Will see if there is one designed for Boston, specifically.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
Good luck.
Boston Bike returns seven APPs , four of which might be useful.
Boston Transit returns 11 APPs, but I don't know if Boston is set up to take bikes on transit or coordinates transit with bike commuting.
. I know a guy in NYC who gets away with a folder bike for commuting.
And don't forget Google maps.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
I'll bet Amsterdam has a lot more biking separated from cars.
Amsterdam just has way more bikes. At a guess, I'd say it's close to an order of magnitude more than any big North American city. I don't specifically remember the layout of bike lanes vs just riding in traffic, but there are so many cyclists that they are a big part of the traffic flow.
And yes, I know what "an order of magnitude" means.
|
|
Lorenzo
Trad climber
Oregon
|
|
Wikipedia tells us 38% of trips in Amsterdam are by bike. Portland bicycle alliance claims 8% of commuter trips in Portland are by bike in 2014. The U.S. census, which polls at major employers, says 6.1%.
Not exactly equivalent, because there are many more trips than commuter trips. The Hawthorne bridge has monitors for every crossing into the city, and about 20% of trip traffic is bike.
But even given those first numbers, the order of magnitude is under 1 x 10^ .7 , so not one full order of magnitude more bike traffic in Amsterdam.
To give you an idea what kind of traffic is in the downtown Amsterdam, watch this.
http://vimeo.com/77084110
It appears they multitask also.
What I see is dedicated streets, bridges, and paths, slow riding, and very little car traffic in those areas. portland isn't there yet, but the downtown is getting there. It gets better each time there is an infrastructure improvement at bottlenecks.
For comparison, here is commuting across the Hawthorne Bridge in Portland - bridge lift and all.
http://youtu.be/CrwHWnJzFbc
Traffic is more combined, both cars and bikes are faster.bikes aren't alway separated from cars on busy streets with 35 mph speed limits. There aren't curbs separating bike lanes everywhere yet
Most bridges have had bike lanes added, and this year a new bridge across the Willamette is being built that is transit and bike only, so it is happening. I can get downtown with only about 1/2 mile of street traffic that isn't controlled for bikes.
But some of that might just be scale. Amsterdam is 84 sq. mi.. And Portland is 375 sq. mi. - Just about the inverse of the order of magnitude in bike traffic.
What is happening here is that people are choosing to live in neighborhoods on bike paths. The Sellwood corridor district, which is along the Springwater bike path, has about 25% of commuter trips into downtown by bike.
There is a similar trend heading North into St Johns, which has two streets where bikes get entire lanes of traffic to themselves.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
As to bikes in Europe - European drivers are much better drivers than yer average Yank or
Canuck PLUS they're not in a 5000 pound Urban Assault Vehicle.
|
|
Tobia
Social climber
Denial
|
|
I've only read the first and last post of this thread; but get the general jist.
I'm a runner that had to convert to biking. I don't feel near as safe riding as I did running, for a couple of reasons most people are aware of; but I will mention anyway.
Running against traffic you see impending doom if it is coming and you can avoid it by either stepping or jumping off the road. This isn't possible on a bicycle.
The safest place to ride in my area is on the military base located here. Bicyclists (as well as marching soldiers) have the right of way and are not seen as a nuisance as motorists. If they are the motorists keep it to themselves. The speed limit posted on 90% of the roads is 25 mph and is strictly enforced. It is a very large base with many miles of roads to pedal on.
To get there there is a running and biking trail that winds along the river 13 miles before you the base. It is a great place to ride, especially the 5 miles around the 800 acre airfield.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
you have never been in Italy
Well, you're right, except for most of October and a week of November.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Not Amsterdam
BwaHaHaHa! Gots relatives there, bra, keep tryin'!
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Reilly...You got relatives in Benton....?
|
|
Bill Czajkowski
Sport climber
New Mexico
|
|
And ride your bike in the middle of the lane.
|
|
Degaine
climber
|
|
|
Dec 11, 2014 - 01:35am PT
|
Nice posts Lorenzo.
Lorenzo wrote:
Which leads to the reverse phenomenon than his "cycle of fear" hypothesis. It is just as likely that wearing a helmet enables riskier behavior on a bike, both in speed and in the amount of other activities you might do while riding...ie running lights, texting, or darting through traffic.
When it comes to helmet wearing (biking, skiing, climbing), or seatbelt wearing for that matter, I would differentiate between the risks one takes as an individual and the risks posed by others using the same road/runs/etc.
While I decided to don a ski helmet long ago due to the risks I was already taking, I understand the existing stats apparently indicate otherwise, that for skiing or mountain biking, people are taking more risks now that they wear helmets. That is what I would very clumsily label "individual, my own ass" risk.
But I wear a seatbelt as much due to the unpredictability of other drivers as to the risks involved in my own manner of driving.
Ditto for a bike helmet: I ride pretty mellow through town and am not too worried about falling, but drivers are unpredictable, and it's worthwhile to wear a helmet in that regard. I have not taken greater risks since putting on a bike helmet for urban purposes.
There are people who text while riding? Clearly I'm less talented than I thought, but then again I have a hard time walking and chewing gum at the same time...
Cheers.
|
|
wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
|
|
|
Feb 20, 2015 - 05:33pm PT
|
What ,Left Coasters do not ride in winter?
|
|
rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
I'm in Kunming, Yunan, southern China (city of 6 million) and I've been commuting across town by bicycle every day for a couple of months. The auto drivers here, and the bus drivers, are completely crazy. They pull onto a major through street from an alley or drive way and don't slow down or even look. At least they are very good at pretending they don't look. Maybe a game of bluff. In any case I've been told that people pulling into your lane, or making a right hand turn onto your street (when you have a green) have the legal right of way. I've had maybe half a dozen near 'death accidents' so far. ha But still I go fast and demand my rights.... not a good strategy for long life I know.
Anyway, I'd guess that more than two thirds of the commuters here are on cycles (the rest in cars or buses). Not bicycles but electric Vespa type cycles. Gas powered motorcycles aren't allowed. Full on cycle traffic jams everyday during rush hour. It slows you down but its kind of fun just to see so many cycles. Grandmas, young teens, old wizened Tai Chi masters and retired communist party chiefs (well maybe the retired chiefs are in Bentleys??). Everyone is on a cycle.
The major streets have divided cycle lanes running down both sides of the street. If it wasn't for the unexpected and unannounced cross traffic it would actually be pretty safe. And the battery cycles are completely quiet. Makes urban living somewhat tolerable.
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
240 posts? Well then
Tobia,
Dec 9, 2014 - 11:29am PT
I've only read the first and last post of this thread; but get the general jist.
I'm a runner that had to convert to biking. I don't feel near as safe riding as I did running, for a couple of reasons most people are aware of; but I will mention anyway.
Running against traffic you see impending doom if it is coming and you can avoid it by either stepping or jumping off the road. This isn't possible on a bicycle.
Unless you are komacozzie and willing to be coma toast stay off the roads where thick traffic threatens and that cars speed on!
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
I will wade into the cesspool of off climbing topics.
I have been a near daily bike rider in SF for 26 years...I have never been hit by a car. Lucky? No. I just follow my own rules.
Red lights don't stop cars.
Never get in the way of a car.
Never let a car come up behind (or almost behind) you.
Be prepared mentally to steer your bike without braking into a curb, sidewalk or over parked cars at any moment.
The laws of physics are not subject to legislation; are unaffected by intention and can be used to protect yourself.
There are many ways to die on a bicycle. This includes getting shot in the head by a pissed-off pedestrian.
Here a little vid for the people who believe the SF Bike Coalition, paint on the roadway, helmets, rules, mirrors etc protect you the bicyclist.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dfe_1405725184
We can rant about how things should be, but Chris's post from a year ago (above) is one of the few that recognizes that our safety as urban cyclists depends on what we do. I particularly like his comment about the laws of physics. To me, it's quite simple. If I screw up and run into a car, I can get killed and the car might get its paint scraped. If a car's driver screws up and runs into me, I might get killed and the car might get its paint scraped. In no case will the driver face any real risk of injury.
Conclusion: watch for drivers screwing up, and don't screw up yourself. It's simple defensive riding, folks. Why let your perception of your rights steer you into the grave?
John
|
|
Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
|
|
^^^ +1 to that!
It really gets to me when I see these bike tour groups out here on the reservation "asserting their right" to the lane by riding 2 and even 3 abreast on a 2 lane highway with a 65mph limit. This is suicidal, especially out here where bicycling isn't considered cool. These people are not setting a good example for their clients.
A couple summers ago I trained for and completed a century ride. Now, I'm selling my road bike and only mountain bike, after a couple of close calls showed me that I was totally putting my life into someone else's hands while riding on the 2 - 3 foot strip of pavement between the white line and the guard rail
|
|
rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
|
|
Photo has nothing to do with rant.... but fun anyway.
1890s
|
|
Spiny Norman
Social climber
Boring, Oregon
|
|
I'll get my dander up about bicycles when people in cars consistently obey posted speed limits, drive at speeds that are safe for conditions, signal their turns and lane changes, properly maintain their vehicles, obey traffic signals, don't drive impaired by cell phones, food, makeup, intoxicants, or sleep deprivation, or screaming vermin, and consistently notice pedestrians, people on bicycles, people on motorcycles, and other drivers.
Until then, drivers (I am one, too) can shut the f*#k up about bicycles.
|
|
Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2015 - 09:25pm PT
|
I saw a bizarre one today.
No danger to me, but a car driver damn near died. Punishment for being a nice guy, but really stupid.
My daily bike commute runs for several miles through and beside the Port of Seattle, where ten thousand truck drivers are going in and out all day. The truckers are great. It's a major bike route, and the cyclists and truckers have been sharing the roads for a long time. There are get-togethers, and Port-sponsored bike/truck classes, and for me, riding with big rigs hauling ass on either side is no problem.
Cars, on the other hand...
So today, on my way in to work, I stopped at a place where the bike path crosses a road into one of the terminals. Stopped because a car was approaching. But the driver, seeing a bicyclist waiting to cross, decided to be a nice guy, and stop...
...completely forgetting the semi steaming along behind him.
I thought the dude was going to die. But major brake screeching from the truck woke him up and he hit the gas. Still, if the truck hadn't swerved as it came up behind him, he'd have lost his car, and been looking at a few weeks in hospital.
So, yeah, it's nice to see a car driver stop so that a bicyclist can cross the road. But not in a spot where the motor traffic has the right of way, and there's a f*#king semi truck right behind.
|
|
johntp
Trad climber
socal
|
|
|
Jun 19, 2015 - 04:18pm PT
|
I used to do a lot of biking. What fries me (in Orange County)are the huge bike clubbers (30-100 riders) that think morning rush hour is the prime time to go four abreast across the road rather than keeping in the designated bike lane. I know cyclists have equal rights to the roadways, but I'm talking about roads posted at 50 mph; the bikers may be doing 20 mph at best. Drivers are trying to get to work and the cyclists act like they own the road.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Jan 26, 2017 - 10:12pm PT
|
Believe it or not. I have a bike story.
As I was biking along a car full of UCSB coeds went by with girls hanging half out of the windows, banging on the sides of the car and woo-whoing at me. When I got back to my office I told my office mate what had just happened and said this had caused me to wonder if I had completely missed my true calling in life.
He said, "I have to tell you this, John, but first you need to sit down. Those girls had only to look at you to know you are totally harmless."
|
|
Reeotch
climber
4 Corners Area
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2017 - 04:00am PT
|
^^^ That guy could get work as a stunt man . . .
|
|
hellroaring
Trad climber
San Francisco
|
|
Bump...in honor of moose's recent run in...
|
|
| Messages 1 - 217 of total 217 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!