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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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SrbPhoto, thanks for the Kennewick man info and Link I was completely unaware.
During my time in Mongolia, I often thought how remarkably similar the facial features of some Mongolians were to west coast indians. One could choose a particular Mongolian and find a corresponding particular West coast indian and their look alike features would be remarkable. The resemblance is not universal, but among individuals, yes it's possible to get a near match I thought
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Srbphoto-
I was trying to simplify. In fact, the racial context of the Ainu is also disputed and is highly political in Japan. What the DNA evidence tells us is that there were many Caucasoid types in northeastern Asia in the past, having followed the game there from central Asia. The youngest "race", geographical variation, whatever you want to call it, is the Mongoloid group which DNA shows evolved from the Caucasoid. Of course no one can say at what point the transition occurred in those areas, nor draw anything more than a fuzzy line between the two groups in some regions. The Uighurs of Chinese Sinkiang however, are quite Caucasoid in appearance still, and they lived in Mongolia before the present day Mongols.
In Japan, the idea that the Ainus were Caucasoid is about as popular with the Japanese as a Caucasian Kennewick man was with the Native Americans. The mainlanders are also still denying that any of the Okinawans are Austronesians and came from the south. The idea of pure races dies hard.
Another possibility is that Kennewick man was an Austronesian (Malayo-Polynesian). There are 35 groups of them on the island of Taiwan alone and the ocean current flows north from there and across Alaska and down the west coast of the Americas. They could have arrived by canoe. A lot of this could be solved if DNA testing was done on Kennewick. Neanderthal DNA has been successfully recovered, so it is doable.
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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If Sasquatch originated in an alternate reality, and used an internally generated field of some type to pass through the dimensional boundary to be here in ours at times, if they die here the body no longer is sustaining the field and the corpse reverts back to the originating reality.
Explains why no bodies are ever found, but I think it's contradicted by the existence of hairs left behind on barb wire fences. Should the hairs not have reverted back to the original reality ?
Or perhaps the last conscious act of a dying Sasquatch is to re-enter the originating reality, to return home to die.
I think this night vision video I shot shows evidence of another dimension or reality set http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzzUboEZ3U8
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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The photo of Shoalwater Man on the top of this Burke Museum entry, "Shoalwater man from Washington with heavy facial hair" is more striking for his atypical curly head hair than his beard and would seem to give a lot of credence to the idea that Austronesians settled parts of the west coast and melded with the local population.
http://www.washington.edu/burkemuseum/kman/idea_of_race.php
Meanwhile, thanks srbphoto for the Burke Museum reference.
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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the hairs are under the microscope in a University lab in Alaska at this very moment. My impression is they have comparison hairs believed to be from Alaskan Sasquatch at the same lab
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ncrockclimber
climber
NC
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At the risk of losing all credibility, here is my story.
I was in college at the U of A in Tucson, AZ in the early 90's (probably 91 or 92), and my climbing partner and I decided to take a mid-week trip to Cochise Stronghold. I don't remember the exact routes, but it they were way up in the canyon on the east side. During the hike up, we both commented that it was really quiet, but thought little of it. I remember that the hike in was a solid 1.5 hours, and after climbing the routes we had planned, we started coming down the canyon at about 3 PM. We knew that it would not get dark until 6:30 PM, so we figured that we should be back at the car way before sunset. As we departed, I put my watch in my pack and we took off.
At this point let me interject a little about my experience in the outdoors. By the early 90's I had already spent 100's of nights in the wilderness and was no stranger to being away from civilization. My climbing partner had likewise dome a great deal of alpine climbing and backcountry hiking in Canada and Alaska, and was a very unflappable character.
As we proceeded down the canyon, I was again struck by how quiet it was. I also started to get the feeling that I was being watched; the hair on the back of my neck literally started to stand up. I was about to say something to my partner when he said, "Something is wrong here." I could not agree more. As we stopped to talk, and we discussed the fact that it was silent. Not a sound could be heard and there was no wind. It was completely, unnaturally still! After a VERY brief discussion, we mutually came to the conclusion to get the hell out of there asap!
Now this is where it gets strange. We were walking down in a gully at the base of the canyon. It was heavily vegetated on both sides. We were hopping from rock to rock as we made out decent, and occasionally walking along the dry sand / gravel in the middle and along the edge. As I jumped off a 4' or so drop onto a 10' x 15' sandbar in the middle of the gully, I saw a single footprint. It was roughly human in configuration and at least twice as big as the size 11 boots I was wearing. However, what really struck me was depth of the print. I had just dropped 4' onto the sandbar, and this print was significantly deeper than mine. It was going perpendicular to the gully, and during our very brief inspection we could find no additional prints or any indication of how whatever / whoever made the print had accessed the sandbar. The vegetation was excessively thick on either side of the gully, and it seemed hard to imagine how the print could have been made without disturbing the plants.
Needless to say, we were getting pretty freaked out! The canyon still seemed totally still and we wanted out of there now! We had only been walking about 10 minutes when we found the print, and we figured that it should take us about another 50 or so minutes to get to the car. We had hiked up this gully on the way to the climbs, and should not have had any problem finding our way out. We hiked fast, and at no time did we divert from the path we had walked on our way in. It seemed to take forever, and I felt as if I were in a haze. Neither of us spoke at all and we just kept on walking. It was starting to get dark and I was starting to get a scared. Just as the sun went behind the western ridge, we got to the car. We threw our packs in the back seat, and as I dug out keys I was shocked to see that it was almost 6:45! It had taken us over 3:45 minutes to walk downhill on a trail that had taken us 1:30 minutes to hike up!
Strangely, neither of us said a word. We just got in the car and left. We did not start to speak until we had been on the interstate for about 30 minutes. We both admitted to feeling totally "out of it" during the hike down, but could not explain why it had taken us almost 4 hours to get to the car. This "lost time" was incredibly disconcerting after the fact, much more so than the single footprint.
One more disclaimer, neither of us had ever used hallucinogens and were 100% clean that day.
In the years since, I have never had another "strange" experience in the outdoors (or anywhere). I have talked with people about The Stronghold and have never heard of anyone else having anything similar happen. Was it bigfoot? I don't know. It was just weird!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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bmacd-
Comparison of hair is very interesting. You know they found hair in a tree in Bhutan which can not be associated with any known animal? Not much has been published about it though - just a short note on the BBc South Asia page a couple of years ago.
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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ncrockclimber thank you very much for that story.
Yours is not the only story I have been told of regarding distortions with elapsed time while in the woods and seeing Sasquatch evidence.
Jan;
A major obstacle is there is no centralized repository or authority where the results of analysis of the physical evidence itself can be located and compared.
Rockjox;
I believe someone already stated string theory allows for the existence of a few more dimensions than we can not directly observe
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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ncrockclimber-
That is a very interesting story!
Another thing that just occured to me as I read it, is that the Native Americans could have put a kind of curse on places that they were driven out of and that's what people feel, particularly if they are at all psychically sensitive.
We have similar situations here in Okinawa, left over from the war.
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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My concern is a lot of the stories involve Canadians. HHHHMMMMMMMMMMM.
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ncrockclimber
climber
NC
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To be clear, I have no idea what happened! I am not claiming bigfoot or curses. I am also not ruling them out! It was just the strangest experience I have ever had. The more I think about it, even today sitting on my couch in suburban Charlotte, NC, I get the chills...
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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That's why your story is one of the more powerful yet NCrockclimber. Thank you for sharing it. There are things which we are not aware of...I am positive, furthermore, when your instinct tells you something is wrong, I have found that for me, there is a 100 percent correlation to some physical thing which I have not yet grasped but which my psyche has, and a real explanation.....although sometimes we cant' figure it out quickly. I was once stalked by a Cougar for instance, and although I didn't ever see it - I saw the prints in the snow later, and I have the other stories noted above, especially the bear in the middle of the night where none of my physical senses caught it but my hair was on end and I felt fear: and I spotted fresh bear scat nearby the next morning. This has always been the case. Your hair literally stands on end and you become fearful. Now, I normally fear nothing and freely go into the woods solo all the time without a 2nd thought, yet on a few occasions I have had deep fear and had my hair stand on end...and when it has occurred, there has, so far, always been a physical and real explanation.
I saw the original Patterson film in person in 1967 I believe, screened by the man himself right after he shot it...wide screen so to speak, in the Memorial Coliseum. It seemed to me at the time to be a fake, but in talking with Patterson himself: (I stayed after the presentation to talk to the man face to face) I did not see any hint of artifice or untruth from him. Yet Bob Heironimus has confessed to being the dude in the suit of the Patterson film, and Philip Morris, a North Carolina gorilla-suit specialist, said he sold the suit to Patterson. Yet people still post pictures of what appeared to a 7th grader who had already spend a bit of time in the woods where bigfoot was suppose to haunt - to be a fake.
I have recently learned that a local logger, Ray L. Wallace, who just passed away, as a joke - would pose as Bigfoot by dressing in a costume, and making footprints via carved wooden molds which he made to simulate the prints. Realize that he worked throughout the NW woods and moved around constantly into different logging camps in remote areas. Don't know why no hunter ever killed him, crafty bastard for sure I suppose. LOL! I spent the day, today, up in prime bigfoot country, like many of my free days, and I saw no evidence today: like all other days. We all run around with digital cameras now, where are the pictures? Sometimes all we have is this:...and we think it's a bear but MAYBE this is really Bigfoot sh#t? It was taken in Skamania County, Washington: prime Bigfoot territory.
HOWEVER, as Ncclimber points out, depth of some of the prints which have been found could not be explained by Wallaces fake set, because despite the fact that this was a huge man, how do you press something like that down so far without the weight to do so?
You don't.
PS, I was born in Kenniwick: I hadn't though of Kenniwick man much but I love your theories and musings on that Jan...you are quite the interesting person. Thank you for sharing your thoughts....
I have not ruled out the fact that Bigfoot exists, and your credibility isn't shot because you shared it NCclimber, thanks for sharing it and adding to the knowledge base, like the OP wanted to see happen.
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wildone
climber
GHOST TOWN
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You guys are morons if you believe in bigfoot. Sorry, just sayin'.
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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donini - get yer special forces gear on and
round up some Bigfoot babes!
we'll pimp 'em out!
dude, it'll be awesome...
there's a market for everything!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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bmacd-
This thread wouldn't have 256 posts already if a lot of people weren't interested !
And just because we don't agree with certain photographs doesn't mean that we're not open to new ideas. Although I believe the physical yeti is a bear, I'm open to the idea that spiritual yetis exist also as taught in Tibetan religion.
Both things could be going on at once and be part of the reason for the confusion.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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It's interesting to track these kinds of stories back to simpler times when mass media didn't dominate and define public awareness of fringe topics. Snipped these from http://www.cryptomundo.com. The terms Sasquatch and Bigfoot were still to come, back then they called them Mowglis, like the Jungle Book character.
From the October 28, 1905 Van Wert Daily Bulletin:
British Columbia Mowglis
Tribe of Wild Men Roaming Woods and Frightening People.
James Johnson, a rancher living near Cornox, seven miles from Cumberland, B.C., reports several Mowglis, or wild men, who have been seen in that neighborhood by ranchers, says a Nanaimo (B.C.) correspondent of the San Francisco Call. Johnson asserts that they were performing what seemed to be a sort of “sun dance” on the sand. One of them caught a glimpse of Johnson, who was viewing the proceedings from behind a big log. The Mowglis disappeared as if by magic into a big cave.
Thomas Kincaid, a rancher living near French creek, while bicycling from Cumberland, also reports seeing a Mowgli, whom he describes as a powerfully built man, more than six feet in height and covered with long black hair. The wild man upon seeing Kincaid uttered a shriek and disappeared into the woods. Upon arriving home Kincaid wrote Government Agent Bray of Nanaimo, inquiring if it would be lawful to shoot the Mowgli, as he was terrorizing that vicinity.
The government agent replied that there was no law permitting such an act. It is reported that on a recent hunting expedition up the Quailicum river an Indian saw a Mowgli and, mistaking him for a bear, shot at and wounded him. During the past month no less than eleven persons coming to Nanaimo from Cumberland have seen the wild men. Parties have been organized and every effort is being made to capture the Mowglis.
From the August 24, 1906 Yukon World:
Alberni Has A Wild Man
Vancouver Island Mowgli Said to Be No Myth - Seen by a Prospector Recently.
VANCOUVER, B.C., Aug. 5. - The famous Vancouver island mowgli is no myth. A prospector is now in Vancouver who says he saw the wild man at Alberni a few days ago. He will not allow his name to be used, asserting that he [is] “not looking for notoriety.” He says:
“A few days ago myself [sic] and another prospector dropped right onto the wild man on the shores of Horn lake, Alberni. The mowgli was clothed in sunshine and a smile except that his body was covered with a growth of hair much like the salmon berry-eating bears that infest the region. The wild man ran with astonishing agility as soon as he saw us.
“We found the wickieup in which he had been sheltering and also many traces of where he had been gathering roots along the lake bank for sustenance. That wild man is no figment of the imagination. You can take my word for that.”
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Maybe Bigfoot(s) are the decendants of Cain in the Bible? Read the curse that GOD placed on Cain in Genesis. Sure sounds like what Bigfoot has been doing, and has had to endure.
Who knows? I don't.
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dsonoqua
Mountain climber
Mukilteo, WA
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Actually, there are several photos and videos of Sas, they just are not being distributed on the internet. These photos indicate that Sas are indifferent to being photographed and sometimes show no awareness that they are being observed. Point in case, I heard a bipedal walker coming through the woods toward me. A tree separated us. I moved around the tree but could not locate the walker. It is common for them to hide by ducking or freezing. I gave up and moved on down the road. A few minutes later, another person walking the road from the opposite direction snapped 3 pics of the animal crossing the road and walking along the margin before entering the woods. If this was the same Sas, it may have held tight for a bit to be sure I was well gone before resuming its intended course. There were half a dozen sightings on this outing but only this person captured photos. At least 3 Sas were active in this area at that time.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Big Foot was spotted this last October in the Lower Merced River.
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