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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 22, 2009 - 03:19pm PT
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What did Erik do to bring about the split with ASCA? I need to know because he would like some assistance from me and I need some clarity about who "we" is? He has a lot of explaining to do before I offer anything because I take serious issue with some of his bolting activities.
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Erik Sloan
climber
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Nov 22, 2009 - 10:31pm PT
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HI Guys,
Wow, it seems like it's been so long since we had a thread like this.
Thank you for all your responses.
I'm preparing something to respond to this thread completely, so please give me a few and I look forward to talking soon.
always much love
e
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Erik Sloan
climber
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Nov 23, 2009 - 10:56am PT
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For years climbers have been musing about the old bolts of Yosemite.
‘how long will they last?’
‘are they still good?’
‘what should be done bout ‘em?’
Just about every opinion possible has been voiced in resolution: either in favor of removing them completely, replacing them occasionally, improving them significantly, replacing them exactly, or leaving them alone.
As best I can tell by the Yosemite climbing communities actions ‘leaving them alone’ seems like the accepted solution. Unfortunately, what people tell me they wish would happen is that the old bolts are replaced improving them significantly, rendering this issue moot for at least our generation(hahahaha).
I Heart Yosemite big walls mucho. For me there can be no distance between what I feel these precious climbs need to be preserved for future generations and my actions to help them be so.
So to try and help those that might be willing to try out a different position than ‘leave them alone’, and I honor whatever that might be, I would like to evoke a call to names of the Yosemite climbing community Fixed Anchor Posse.
but first, a little story:
Cause you see, when it comes to bolting issues in Yosemite these internet forums have been like backyard smokeouts(I mean BBQ’s:) where talk turns to your local school’s budget: Everyone chimes in to say that the girls basketball team deserves uniforms, the Art program’s gotta stay damnit, and that after-school activities should be a right not a privilege, but two weeks later when sign-ups come around for the PTA sponsored ball game or drawing class then suddenly everyone is booked. A few days later your buddy, who can tell you’re bummed about it offers, ‘hey, our basketball team always sucked anyway.’
I really appreciate the passionate energy that people use to describe their experiences on the walls of Yosemite. I’ve never been negatively affected by anyone’s opinions, because for me a person’s ethics are what we develop inside. We all meet up at the top of the mountain. Each of us holds dear our path and the celebration it entailed.
But I definitely feel that many folks who have a lot of experience climbing in Yosemite avoid fixed anchor issues because they’ve accepted some of the negativity that has been offered. And that’s too bad. If we don’t follow our heart’s because of what someone might say about us only our own light is diminished; we co-create less joy in this world.
So it’s time to talk about who really understands the fixed anchor sensitivities in Yosemite. Meaning who has taken their convictions and tested them against the reality they found when they were here, year after year. Once we establish this core group we can start having some meaningful dialogues about a.what works and what doesn’t b.what might need a little help and what is doing just fine.
Because the only thing that is required for involvement is prior involvement, we don’t need any distinguishing requirements for our crew. That said what worked twenty years ago in Yosemite(machine heads/dowels/zmac bolts on big walls as rivets, for example) So your involvement needs to be recent.
I came up with a working guideline idea of say, spending 14ish days in the park each year and placing or replacing 5-10 fixed anchors per year(could be a sling or anything fixed)/. Does that sound elitist? Just a total suggestion--you of course now how connected and passionate you are about this place and involved with these issues.
thanks
erik sloan--been climbing Yosemite big walls every year for 15years. Replace 50-200 fixed anchors each year for that last 12 years.
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Ω
climber
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Nov 23, 2009 - 11:01am PT
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Bulldog, what is your problem with this 1 bolt? Did you know that almost half the bolts you clip on the Nose are not original?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 23, 2009 - 11:24am PT
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I think his problem is that the bolt is right next to a crack that takes admittedly sketchy gear in that spot, but gear none the less.
I appreciate your efforts Eric on bolt replacement in general, but on a route as classic and revered as the Nose, adding bolts is only going to embroil you in a shitstorm.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 23, 2009 - 12:45pm PT
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Erik-Nice armwaving but why did you place this particular bolt right near another one on a 5.10c free climbing pitch? Did you discuss your decision with anyone else or simply take it upon yourself to drill a NEW HOLE and change the character of the climbing on this section?
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Lee Bow
Trad climber
wet island
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Nov 23, 2009 - 01:25pm PT
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Adding bolts to the NOSE?!?
In a perverse way, this may well be the BRAVEST climbing deed of all.
Even Jardine's traverse was off route...
If I did that not only would the have me killed, but I'm sure I would go down in history as the worst fool ever.
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 23, 2009 - 01:30pm PT
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Even Jardine's traverse was off route...
Not so he enhanced features on the route itself.
Pendulum from sickle to dolt.
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Lee Bow
Trad climber
wet island
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Nov 23, 2009 - 01:57pm PT
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OOPPS my bad, Sorry Werner...
I guess what I was really trying to say was despite Nanook's claim that I need some kind of Valley credentials to have an opinion I sure as hell do!
Tar and feathers sounds about right to me.
By the way...
I already know I'm a geek, but having one of the Valley God's speak to me directly is truly cool. Even if it is only to tell me I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about. Hell I live with it every day!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 23, 2009 - 03:00pm PT
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Haha Nanook, you should be a politician. Your talk sounds good, but you are avoiding the issue. Maybe you're post above was just general thoughts and you'll be back to address the new bolts on the third pitch of the Nose.
My guess is the bolts were added to allow people to free climb that section easier. Without the bolt it's still easy aid, but for free climbing your piece blocks the best hold. With the bolt you clip the bolt and stick your fingers in the scar.
Of any route on El Cap the Nose is probably the one where added bolts would be accpeted by the greatest percentage of climbers. Warren wouldn't give a f*#k. It would be much worse to add bolts to the Salathe, which was a statement about how few bolts it took to climb El Cap, with only 13 originaly. I'd rather see bolts chopped off the Salathe than the Nose.
Cripes who was it that first added a bolt to the Nose? What kind of retro-bolter would rape El Cap to bring it down to his level... oh yeah, Royal Robbins...
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Nov 23, 2009 - 05:02pm PT
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Bump, because I'd rather talk about a specific example of ethics, than endless opinions on a thread about generalities of fixed anchors.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 23, 2009 - 05:17pm PT
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Stand and deliver, Erik!?!
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Nov 23, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
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With the bolt you clip the bolt and stick your fingers in the scar.
IT makes one wonder, is there a more manufactured free climb than The Nose?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
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Nov 23, 2009 - 05:24pm PT
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I have been up to Sickle four times and never needed this new bolt.
What gives?
Juan
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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Nov 23, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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Certainly the post makes it seem as though the bolts are a new thing... they have been around quite a while, or at least the one Erik put in... not new at all. Winky has been ragging on it for years it seems.
Juan... why didn't you chop the bolt after going by it so many times? If you didn't need it then it really must be un-necessary. ;)
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pc
climber
East of Seattle
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Nov 23, 2009 - 06:01pm PT
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Gud thred.
skål,
pc
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Nov 23, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
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None of the ASCA bolt replacers I know want a sissy drill exemption.
Roger
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Nov 23, 2009 - 08:30pm PT
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I do if it means we can drill 1/2" and not have to worry about them loosening up (especially on wall anchors)!
But I have to admit that lugging power drills around is no fun - I can have a lightweight replacement hand drill kit for the same size and less weight than a battery, let alone power drill and battery. We brought a couple of hand drill kits up the Epinephrine chimneys, and that would really be no fun at all with power drills...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 23, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
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Chopping bolts on the lower part of the Nose is nothing new.
Tom Frost, Yvon Chouinard and the Dolt repeated the four pitches up to Sickle Ledge in 1959 and chopped several of the original bolts because improvements in pitons including some early RURP prototypes allowed them to bypass them. It was fairly common practice if a better way could be found.
Tom chopped more bolts during his career than he placed.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Dec 14, 2010 - 01:48pm PT
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Here are some photos of the fixed gear on this pitch, as of 2 days ago.
I forgot to get photos of the highest smashed hexes/blobs, though.
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