Climate Change skeptics? [ot]

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wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
"Furthermore there are problems in the translation from Russian to English"

Well there you have it.Only you would know,being able to see Russia and all.

What about the largest storm ever,post up some of that blog,ahem,knowledge .

Or ,you know,your memory,or better yet quote some science,proving ANYTHING WHATSOEVER.





Comedy,right there,I tell you.
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
Nov 12, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
Bruce:

Rick Sumners..... Rugged individualist extraordinaire. No pussy group think for him. A little self edukatin' and he's got this science sh#t dialled. He'll, even if he doesn't its the thought that counts

Thanks for the morning laugh!! Needed it..

Now to cruise for links for for some night-time, tweener season reading.

Thanks y'all that post up the science stuff. I appreciate it.
abrams

Sport climber
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
There you goes again suppressing contrary ideas. Suppressing scientific diversity.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Nov 12, 2013 - 01:37pm PT

"of scientific diversity"




Comedy.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 12, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
For the science-based community, Skeptical Science today reviews recent studies related to the cosmic-ray hypothesis.
This is a relatively new and interesting hypothesis, so it's become popular amongst climate contrarians as an alternative explanation to human-caused global warming. However, it's also been the subject of extensive scientific research over the past few years, and the hypothesis simply has not held up to scrutiny.

First, there's the obvious fact that cosmic rays cannot explain the recent global warming because solar activity and the amount of cosmic rays reaching the Earth's surface have remained flat on average over the past 60 years. The sun and cosmic rays could only be causing global warming if there were a long-term upward trend in solar activity and downward trend in cosmic rays reaching Earth. In fact, the number of cosmic rays reaching Earth has increased since 1990, and reached record levels in 2009 (one of the hottest years on record).

Annual average cosmic ray counts per minute (blue - note that numbers decrease going up the left vertical axis, because lower cosmic rays should mean higher temperatures) from the Neutron Monitor Database vs. annual average global surface temperature (red, right vertical axis) from NOAA.

A paper published in the journal Meteorology and Atmospheric Physics this August noted,

"Recent measurements of the cosmic ray intensity show that … even if cosmic rays enhanced cloud production, there would be a small global cooling, not warming."

Two of the authors of that paper (Sloan & Wolfendale) have also just published another cosmic ray research paper in Environmental Research Letters, finding that the contribution of solar activity and galactic cosmic rays (combined) to global warming is "less than 10% of the warming seen in the twentieth century."

Sloan & Wolfendale also examine the influence of cosmic rays on the climate over the past billion years in another new paper published in the journal New Astronomy. They find that changes in the galactic cosmic ray intensity are too small to account for significant climate changes on Earth. This was also the conclusion of a paper published this May in The Astrophysical Journal.

In another paper just recently published in Environmental Research Letters, Rasmus Benestad of The Norwegian Meteorological Institute compares measured changes in the amount of cosmic rays reaching Earth to changes in temperature, precipitation, and barometric pressure measurements. Benestad finds no statistical evidence that cosmic rays can explain the recent global warming.

Finally, a paper published last month in Geophysical Research Letters compared measurements of cosmic rays and cloud cover changes, and found no detectable connection between the two. This study is consistent with many previous papers finding that cosmic rays are not effective at seeding clouds. Likewise, in the CERN CLOUD experiments, Almeida et al. (2013) found

"ionising radiation such as the cosmic radiation that bombards the atmosphere from space has negligible influence on the formation rates of these particular aerosols [that form clouds]"

Thus every step in the galactic cosmic ray-climate hypothesis is fraught with problems. Evidence suggests that cosmic rays are not effective at seeding clouds. Solar activity has been flat, and even slightly downwards over the past few decades. Galactic cosmic ray flux on Earth has been flat, even slightly upwards over the past few decades. 2009, which saw a record number of cosmic rays reaching Earth (meaning it should have been cold), was the 5th-hottest year on record at the time.
Chiloe

Trad climber
Lee, NH
Nov 12, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
Physicist Rasmus Benestad also has a new post today on Realclimate summarizing recent cosmic/climate research. His post, titled "Simple Physics and Climate," notes that en route to their cosmic ray analysis, the Sloan & Wolfendale (2013) paper
provides an example where they derive a simple conceptual model of how the greenhouse effect works from first principles. They show the story behind the expression saying that a doubling in CO2 should increase the forcing by a factor of log|2|.
Benestad concludes with this perspective,
Some may ask why we keep revisiting the question about cosmic rays and climate, after presenting all the evidence to the contrary.
One reason is that science is never settled, and there are still some lingering academic communities nourishing the idea that changes in the sun or cosmic rays play a role. For this reason, a European project was estaqblished in 2011, COST-action TOSCA (Towards a more complete assessment of the impact of solar variability on the Earth’s climate), whose objective is to provide a better understanding of the “hotly debated role of the Sun in climate change” (not really in the scientific fora, but more in the general public discourse).
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Nov 12, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
http://climate.nasa.gov/nasa_role/science
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Nov 12, 2013 - 04:47pm PT
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/faq/global-warming.php

See natural variability.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 13, 2013 - 10:55am PT
To those who continually bark that green energy is not cost effective:


Fossil Fuel Industry Receives $500 Billion in Subsidies by Governments Worldwide


[Click to View YouTube Video]
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:06am PT
yes i feel a bit guilty for that typhoon, as every gas thirsty American should,
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Nov 13, 2013 - 11:16am PT
Ed, good of you to look up and post some of my mentioned authors on the interest of keeping the argument going. I m staying in my motor home on a jobsite 80 miles from my nv home to eliminate a big commute and reduce my pollution footprint
I have no internet other than this blasted phone currently. Where am I drawing my conclusions? -from a variety of sources you are just touching on.First, in the abstract of your last posted paper it says we simply don't understand the extent of variation in the variable star we live around ( my take) , meaning ,among other things, that we lack direct data to reconstruct the extent of variability of solar events that had a role in climate change in periods like the MWP and LIA, which were more distinct changes than the late 20th century. Second, the predictions of Penn and Livingston and others are proving quite accurate with a ssn of around 67. Third, during the spotless sun of the low point of cycle 23, and absent major oceanic events like a strong El Nino, the global surface temp anomaly registeref a distinct drop. Fourth, in conjunction with the reduced solar activity the sea near surface temps and land temps are decreasing slightly.Fifth , we witnessed major jet steeam and polar vortex disruptions over the last decade consitent with a phase change to a cooling climate.
Maunder mimimum, maybe not, but the reduced solar activity to come will be an interesting test of natural variability versus greenhouse gas forcing. l
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Nov 13, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
Recent further evidence that the oceans are temporarily absorbing the excess heat.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/10/131031-climate-ocean-temperatures-years/
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Nov 13, 2013 - 06:21pm PT
K-Man that vid is absolutely correct.

Giving Subsides to FF's is SOCIALISIM.

There are some here that do not understand that.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Nov 13, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
I read enough RW blogs here ,so here is a liberal slant.







thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/11/13/2933271/2013-heat-sea-level/
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Nov 13, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
Humorous post Bruce but f-off anyway, same goes to the almighty turd Wyna. I beg your pardon Ed, the TSI variation from a solar max to a minimum is variously estimated to be as high as one percent , much more than the commonly ascribed tenth of one percent of the typical high to low of an eleven year schwab cycle. With that kind of variation over a period of decades it adds up as an imbalance to the plus or negative side. So you have that still unproven possibility. Then of course there is up to eight percent variation in some of the uv solar spectrum having effects on ozone and other constituents of the upper atmosphere causing theorized cascade events that have pronounced effects in the troposphere. What about cme's and variations in the velocity of the solar wind. And the jury is not in on magnetic flux and cosmic ray infuced cloud nucleation- did you see the Jasper Kirkby presentation I posted a link too- I would have thouhht him coming from Cern and being a fellow particle physicist would rate some credibility to his ideas on your part. . No, there is still much yo learn about our sun and the extent of its effects on our climate. For you to claim othrrwise w ould be disengenuous.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Nov 13, 2013 - 08:29pm PT
where is The Chief?
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Nov 13, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
so you mean he isn't out climbing?
meh
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:02am PT
Bruce you friggin idiot. Read your highlighted blurb yourself. They were ordered to pay because they brought forth a frivolous lawsuit that they lost, not because of verbalizing opposition to idiocy. I do agree with this. There should be consequences for tying the courts up with bogus legal actions. If this was universally adopted it would slow the environmental insanity that uses the frivolous legal course more than any other single group I can think of. Continue on with.your self delusion amigo, life is short and you need something to occupy your dwindling years.
rick sumner

Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
Nov 14, 2013 - 12:41am PT
I'm out in the northern Nv country outside of Minden . Not in Vegas. My god man, I haven't stepped foot into that shethole, other than the closest grocery store down Charlseton from the campground, in over fifteen years. I even take the back way in around Pahrump and down blue diamond just to avoid vegas. Good climbing there at Red Rocks though often crowded. These days I prefer sh#t rock in remote unexplored areas over the "pretty stuff" with the teaming masses.
wilbeer

Mountain climber
honeoye falls,ny.greeneck alleghenys
Nov 14, 2013 - 08:05am PT
It is something that when you go to PAGASA'S website and search for press release's ,or anything about the haiyan typhoon,nothing will show up .

Conversely if you go to WUWT's website you will find Sketch's info.

Really.
http://www.pagasa.dost.gov.ph


then
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/11/13/deconstructing-the-hype-on-super-typhoon-haiyan-y

well
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/nasa-keeps-eye-ferocious-super-typhoon-haiyan-space-8C


Just as Chiloe had said upthread.
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