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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 10, 2010 - 09:49pm PT
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Thank you Hypercrates, Power of Fate, for keeping us safe, today, we had a great time.
Thanks, Dingus, for the reply. Good points.
I just think it is time Jehovah had some competition. In the West. In the eastern religions, the people have multiple deities, multiple stories to which to turn for support, humor and good times. Perhaps the West should, too.
If our culture is "enriched" for having the personification of death (the Grim Reaper)- and I for one think it is- then it is even more enriched for having the personification of fate or controlling powers. IMHO.
Welcome, Hypercrates, to America.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 10, 2010 - 10:06pm PT
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Dr. F. You miss the point. It's a symbol. It's a personification. Like the Grim Reaper. It's not to be taken literally. Or even at all if you don't want, too.
Look, I was born human. As opposed to horse or honey bee or honey badger. I had no choice in the matter. It was beyond my control. The forces in control were hypercratic powers. That's all. And if you or anyone else doesn't want to personify the hypercratic powers, don't.
In other words, hypercratic by itself simply means controlling. Controlling is a synonym. You certainly believe in powers or forces that led to your existence. Right? Or that led to some decisive moment or turning point at some time in your life that was outside your control. Right? That's all it is. Nothing more.
It's for fun, like this-
"You can be a king or a street sweeper, but everybody dances with the Grim Reaper.”
That's funny. Right? One could have fun with Hypercrates, just as well.
I mean, you get the Grim Reaper, right?
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go-B
climber
In God We Trust
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Jul 10, 2010 - 10:14pm PT
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Look, I was born human. As opposed to horse or honey bee or honey badger. I had no choice in the matter.
I'd thank God!
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TripL7
Trad climber
san diego
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Jul 10, 2010 - 10:19pm PT
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"sounds like karma to me..."
When allowed to run its course, evil destroys itself...violent people become the victims of violence, liars become victims of others deceit. Sometimes God intervenes, other times, for reasons only known to Him, God allows it to continue. Remember that God will execute final justice, even if it is not in our lifetime.
All are held accountable.
Someone will have to pay the price for sin, doing good will not suffice for past evils.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 10, 2010 - 10:23pm PT
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Cool.
Auggh, but your last sentence: Forces or powers are physical, right. I know you've had physics. Nothing supernatural there.
Don't read "supernatural" into it. Perhaps you've been fighting the supernaturalists too much, you need a break?
For the record, I'm no supernaturalist, there is not a supernaturalist bone in my body. M'kay?
I know you know forces or powers outside your control led to your being born, led to the Earth emerging as a planet, etc. We can agree on this. Right?
Later, bro.
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go-B
climber
In God We Trust
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Jul 10, 2010 - 10:35pm PT
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Jesus is my Bro for pay'n the price for me!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 10, 2010 - 10:39pm PT
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This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen on ST. People with totally entrenched views try to change others opinions with paralyzingly redundant, and foolish arguments.
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go-B
climber
In God We Trust
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Jul 10, 2010 - 10:52pm PT
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WHOA!
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 10, 2010 - 11:16pm PT
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This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen on ST. People with totally entrenched views try to change others opinions with paralyzingly redundant, and foolish arguments. LOL!
Hey, Donini, at least Hypercrates is an innovation. Why not use your wit and humor and whip him up into a poem or jingle for us? Show me what you got. (Use the Grim Reaper as inspiration, maybe.)
P.S. Maybe Pate could help me here, too. Where's Pate?
Please, please, Great Hypercrates,
above me, the leader, a thinly protected crack...
or,
30 feet above my pro, my belayer high on 'shrooms,
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jul 10, 2010 - 11:21pm PT
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Ah.....but my views are also TOTALLY entrenched and, when it comes to this subject, humor fails me.
Wittgenstein said: "Of that of which we cannot speak we must pass over in silence."
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Transporter Room 2
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Jul 11, 2010 - 12:18am PT
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It would be KickAss to be a Honey Badger......Don't cha think?
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 11, 2010 - 12:21am PT
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Ya see all these people that come in to this thread are captivated in one way or another.
They just can't stay out.
This proves the all pervading attraction and power.
You're ALL SUCKERS ......
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 11, 2010 - 01:30am PT
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you are absolutely right Werner...
and donini has a bit of rightness too...
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jul 11, 2010 - 01:46am PT
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This thread's about the journey, not the goal.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 11, 2010 - 03:16am PT
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Everyone on all sides would do well to read this shameless repost from another thread of mine.
Seriously, it applies double here, if you must read fast, just check the paragraphs before and after the break in images about the religions message and "Static"
I've been into a fascinating book recently about how our minds make decisions. It's called "How we Decide" Check it out here.
http://tinyurl.com/238fp34
Some of it totally reminds me of how we relate to each other on Supertopo. I thought I'd post a reverent section below.
Too funny. Our mind works like that believer and non-believer alike
peace
Karl
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GBrown
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Jul 11, 2010 - 03:55am PT
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John, this is solid!:
"People have the capability for saying anything. We say things all the time. But what we DO depends upon the exercise of our judgment. What things should a prudent person allow to guide their judgment? Things that work. Things that are supported by widely separated sources. Things that seem consistent with our daily experience. I have already discussed how any one of these may lead us astray. They don't all agree. Which is the ultimate challenge. It is our decision. We have to own it."
And when you operate this way you keep on learning, by which I mean understanding rather than spouting the correct answers. A person who stops operating in the manner you describe has given up responsibility for their life and their due contribution to the lives around them.
A person will act foolishly when they don't really personally grasp something in terms of its (a) workability, (b) non-workability, or (c) relative workability in their lives and the lives of others. A person applying what you are talking about above will learn and cease acting foolishly. Not everybody survives the process -- and not everyone around the person survives the process. And one of the things to learn is one's ignorance and the ability to recognize that as sort of as a tangible thing. (That can be difficult because the absence of something can be easily overlooked, however, the absence of something is actually a prime diagnostic and investigative factor which a good diagnistician or investigator gets a feel for and uses.)
Socrates was dubbed the most wise and attributed it to the fact that he knew he was ignorant. (Another tip to John's point on that.)
So what's that got to do with this lengthy thread of thought?
The physical scientist has theory (thought) going out in advance of workability and uses that which is workable to avdance his theory.
The spiritual scientist has theory (thought) going out in advance of workability and uses that which is workable to advance his theory.
They may be going in different directions, but there are two common points:
Thought and workability.
What do you get out of that?
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jstan
climber
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Jul 11, 2010 - 12:04pm PT
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Gary:
Workability is determined in a "test."
Testing is the heart of the scientific process.
You have just described how to test other kinds of processes.
A very important step forward. I have not heard anyone put a word to what such testing might look like. Now it has been done.
Let's take an example, the invasion of Iraq.
Bush Sr. applied the test. He stayed out of the cities. Going in would have set in motion events and hatreds that would go on long after our interest in the whole thing had evaporated.
It would not "work."
The other Bush did not apply a test. And we have events and hatreds that will remain long after everyone has died. It did not "work."
The same test can be applied to belief systems.
Many of us hope that belief systems change our behaviors so that fewer horrible things are done. Before accepting a new belief system one can ask whether it will "work." Whether it will still work even after people have done to it, all the things people do.
And if a person is accepting a belief system for what they personally hope to get out of it, they too can ask if it will "work."
I was not aware of Socrates' statement that knowing he did not know is wisdom. I said that in another post somewhere. Here I thought I had thought that one up! Damn!
Ah, well. I suppose being 2400 years behind the times isn't the worst possibility.
And before I forget; last night we watched a DVD called "Wristcutters." Absolutely superb. Uncannily brilliant!
A take on life after death that promotes life. With one exception the after life is just like life. After death - you can't smile.
Watching it is a pleasure. Every minute of it.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Full Silos of Iowa
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Jul 11, 2010 - 02:21pm PT
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An "entrenched belief" is a negative thing when... (a) it angers God Jehovah, (b) it angers the Pope or his Cardinals, (c) it runs contrary to the Holy Bible, (d) it is counterproductive to good practices in the "practice" of living, (e) it is factually incorrect leading to poorer performance in the "practice" of living.
My answers are d and e.
I have many "entrenched beliefs," they were hard-won over many decades of education, science education and general life education, and I'm proud of them.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 11, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
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Pate, with the same inevitable result.
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