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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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Didn't I read someplace that Kate uses links almost exclusively for pin scars over Aliens?
I have the larger one and like it a lot. The notion that this is an expert only piece of gear is a bit extreme.
Hexes are expert only gear in my book. "OLD" experts that is....
Prod.
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Temecula
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I was with Tom and saw the broken cam mentioned in the OP. I did not see how it broke, but I remember a few details from the conversation afterward.
The climbers using the cam were somewhat inexperienced. They said that they started climbing the chimney to the right of Double Cross, could not proceed after about 20 feet, and then decided to move over to the bolted line to the right (don't remember the name, "Granny" something?)
This is just speculation, but I doubt there was much of a fall involved. They were hang-dogging quite a bit. One guy mentioned something about "just testing" the placement when it broke. I'm not sure where he was trying to place it, but it was probably high enough that there a good bit of rope out. From what I know, it's hard to imagine any scenario where there could have been unusually high force on the gear.
Dave
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xtrmecat
Big Wall climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
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I just did the rc.noob link above and the cam looks like it was fixed for over a year and got weathered out of the crack by thermal expansion/contraction. Crushed severely. The thread speculated on all the things that had no evidence to support them from the photo. Chisel, saw etc. All I could see is crushed. I also have not seen or heard of a modern camalot breaking in this manner. Or ever from any torque or similar abuse. Can't find it. Tons of other false claims and drivel though. Lots of haters, camalots this, aliens that,metolious is the shiz because, but no broken camalots from rotational torques. Hmmmmmm.
Bob
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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That #2 Camalot was NOT broken while climbing. It was fixed mank and was hammered to sh#t for a few years before someone brought out the big guns and broke it for real. Never heard of a camalot breaking under climbing use.
Link cams on the other hand despite there being a fraction of the number of units in use appear to blow apart and self destruct ocasionaly. Then it gets blamed on noobs not useing them correctly but Yall don't like my sugestion that noobs shouldn't use them?
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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The words "N00b" and "Link Cam" should never be in the same sentence. Thats yer problem right there.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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There's no doubt in my mind the Camalot is a more robust unit.
On the other hand, there are placements where a Link will go securely and a Camalot won't
fit, or would be more likely to get stuck or pull out. We're always making judgments.
I remember getting near the top of a lead once that had turned out to be longer and 3
grades harder than I expected. Above was 20 more feet of irregular, leaning crack with
no rests, and I had only two cams left on my rack -- both Links, and I was really glad that
they were.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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I agree that the link cam has a place I just don't think that place is on a standard rack. Again YMMV.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I've made three points throughout the Link Cam discussions on RC:
a) They are the best expression of this particular design construct that today's state-of-the-art in material science can produce.
b) Both the advantages and limitations of the design should be relatively obvious to experienced climbers with one close inspection of the cam lobe linkages.
c) That the harsh, inarguable reality is once you hang a piece of gear on your rack and leave the ground, it is what it is at that point. What the manufacturer, your best friend, or 3941 people on the internet said about it is irrelevant - it's on you and you alone to recognize and exploit its advantages and to work within the constraints of its limitations.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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HealyJ
Those are all excelent points and completly reinforece my opinion that the Link cam should Not be on a beginners rack.
I will add that INMOP Micro wires or any wire smaller than a BD#5 should also not be on a beginners rack.
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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I will add that INMOP Micro wires or any wire smaller than a BD#5 should also not be on a beginners rack.
I guess you would need to define beginner. My take is know the limitations of your tools. A beginner should also know this prior to leaving the ground. That being said, I disagree with your point, but understand where you are coming from.
Prod.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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tradmanclimbs
Do you use Aliens?
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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So a fixed Camalot that someone destroyed to remove is a failed piece of gear? Pretty bomber placement, albeit somewhat hard to clean, if you ask me...
I've seen several pics of failed link cams floating around on the net for a while. In THIS ONE the climber states that the stem was angled downward at 45 to 50 degrees.
In all of the pics I've seen it was the metal cams which broke, not some little wire piece.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Beginners need to learn the basics of gear placement. Micro wires are advanced, Not Basics. Micro wires don't hold unless perfectly placed. I have seem beginners place a crap micro wire right next to a perfect larger nut placement and climb over it like it was a bolt. Shakeing like a dogg shitting razorblades ready to peel at any moment.
INMOP The margin for error with all micro gear as in micro cams and nuts is too slim for a beginner. I like to teach place the largest piece of gear that will properly fit the placement unless you obviously need to save that piece for higher on the pitch. later in the process you learn the value of micro gear but you do not need to know these things untill you get some miles under your belt.
I have 2 old aliens that I still use. I will not buy new Aliens. And I will not buy any Link cams. No point is spending hard earned dough on stuff that breaks too easy. Again YMMV
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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I own 8 Linkcams, tens of thousands of feet with them, no brakes and no trouble but I sure move faster... Which can make you safer
Anyway, I like the LinkCam and will continue to use them.
Nothing else to add.
Thanks for playing.
Jay
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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I bootied a yellow one last summer, and then picked up a green when they went on sale. I've seen several reports of the lobes breaking. I'm a bit confused as to the 'proper' use of these guys.
At the moment I'm just using them as anchor pieces, and for easier alpine stuff where I want to save weight, ie. bringing the green and yellow (2 cams) instead of the 0.5 - 2 C4 (4 cams).
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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And I will not buy any Link cams. No point is spending hard earned dough on stuff that breaks too easy.
We part company a bit here. "...breaks too easy" isn't how I would describe them given they are as strong as any such design can be using today's technology. I would, however, say they are less forgiving to inappropriate placements, but then it's back on the user not to make such placements. Again, it's a matter of being prepared to work with the realities a piece presents you when staring at it in your hand.
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Phil_B
Social climber
Hercules, CA
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I broke a LinkCam once. It was one of the first models out there and I pulled the trigger wire off. Omega Pacific fixed it for me for free and it remains one of my favorite pieces.
Maybe I'll use my REI dividend to get some more. . .
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murcy
climber
sanfrancisco
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Good thread; thanks.
(TMC, Is INMOP "IN My O Pinion"?)
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