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Owlman
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 26, 2008 - 10:58pm PT
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Today, went craggin at a bitchin place, "Rev-a-new Flats". sunny, cold blue sky in the big sky country. High around 50 degrees...a warm day in Montana.
while approaching a crag, I glanced right at and a guy as he botched a clip and whipped about 8 ft over a quick draw and the biner on the draw attached to the bolt exploded with a "ping"! It sheard the the bd ultra lite wire gate biner right thru -ding! and he flew on down to the ground...like an extra 30 footer - and he crashed onto his heel then leverd back and whacked his knoggen and spewed-bright red-blood onto the ground. Shiza! welcome to the rock, owlman.
You should have seen the biner. It was thought provoking. It loaded wierd and broke instantly with a funny ping. We think the wire gate rattled during the fall and so it cocked up at a funny angle at the point of loading. And bing!! I heard that funny sound 100 meters away.... then heard the rope sawing the air. Pucker factor 10.
those wire gates are soooo lite, and apparently strong.
but the bolt hangar appeared to have cut into a phlange on the inner part of the biner gate, thus supporting the wierd angle reached during the fall.
Everybody lived and went home happy and proud of hard Montana knoggins. He dented the rock he hit and we all washed off his head with beer. Still was kinda wierd and I wanted to admit I don't totally trust those wire gates.
-owl
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:01pm PT
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How was the rope attached to the bolt?
Directly with a single carabiner? Two crabs? Was a quickdraw used?
Wire gates have been proved safer [at least on the end of a quickdraw] because slack rope rattling through it during a fall is less likely to jiggle open the gate.
Doesn't mean I like 'em, though!
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:01pm PT
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He dented the rock he hit and we all washed off his head with beer.
Hahahahaha LOL
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Owlman
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2008 - 11:02pm PT
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Just the quick draw. It was about 8 ft below him as he reached to clip the next bolt.
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Owlman
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2008 - 11:06pm PT
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Now Werner,...this is serious...normally it's cold enough so that the blood freezes...but today we had to use the beer to cleanse the wound.
serious.
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east side underground
Trad climber
crowley ca
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Oct 26, 2008 - 11:19pm PT
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ouch! hope you did't waste to much good brew! hehehe
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Oct 27, 2008 - 01:04am PT
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I say helmets are uncool...
But I still wear one. (sometimes)
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:29am PT
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'tis the season to see blood...Halloween is just around the corner!
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Texplorer
Trad climber
Reno
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:51am PT
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Ah the anethetic power of hops.
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Danielle Winters
Trad climber
Alaska
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Oct 27, 2008 - 05:57am PT
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More info please ! Was the broken biner the top binner in the quick draw or rope end biner . The rope end biner should have a keeper on in so it cant load funny .
I am not a fan of these new super light biners . They look and feel brittle to me ( no scientific proof just a gut feeling ) I recived some new Mummut Bionics as a gift this year and will only use them as the rope end binner on a sling or draw , I dont trust them on the top when clipping to a bolt or fixed pin.
Any one else out there feel that way ?
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Oct 27, 2008 - 06:15am PT
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Owlman, it was unfortunate you witnessed the fall and landing--I'm very glad that the climber was okay and walked away :-)
On a side note, (increasing) accidents at , and guidebooks publishing "r-nue", draw the attention of bordering landowners of this which rarely is good--let's all sigh and think positive thoughts on this one. Good bullet dodge.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:24am PT
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The way I am reading this is the bolt hanger attached to the rock cut into the wire gate biner, setting up the failure. I have had my BD wire gates for years. My quick draws are set up so a standard biner goes on the bolt and the wire gate attaches to the rope.
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jstan
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:51am PT
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I don't know how to express this but will try. The OP seemed to focus on the blood as if such is an important part of the climbing experience. "Blood" was even in the thread's title. Increasingly we encounter "whippers" at the same time we are relying more and more on pre-placed supposedly "perfect" bolt protection.
Do we have something weird going on? Is climbing becoming just one more "extreme sport" where we just push the bad ones under the table and then party on? Had the OP's leader fallen differently and had become a quad would we have shrugged, said "shyte happens when you are going for the gold", and would we just have left it to his parents to turn him in bed every two hours for the next forty years?
Are we spending so much time in our heads we see nothing that is real, and see nothing that requires us to accept responsibility for the consequences of our actions?
CM:
A lot has changed. My first weekend climbing I heard all about a recent accident that opened the leaders chest. A blood soaked windproof was used to close the wound and his life was saved. You have to think about consequences all the time and you, personally, have to be ready. No "helicopters".
I believe this is, increasingly, missing.
And I did not mean to single out any particular mode of protection. When we automatically assume pre-placed protection is "perfect", we are "externalizing" the risk. Not taking responsibility for it. Risk can't be externalized.
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couchmaster
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:03am PT
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Seems to me that nothing has changed jstan, this is the way it's been, even with gear. Sort of: "There but for the grace of God go I...moving on...."
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:14am PT
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Yikes, scary! Thanks for sharing.
GO
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:19am PT
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This a pretty heavy guy? How much would you say he weighs?
I agree - all those ultralight biners are really strong in the lab - after carefully being loaded into a special fixture that in no way simulates all the loads it may face in the real world.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:22am PT
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I think what JSTan is driving at regarding gear is that on a traditional type of climb, a leader who is smart will build a system of protection below a difficult section whenever possible, so the failure of one piece will not lead to a ground fall. Also, each leader will innovate differently, which means that the process of protection becomes a creative one.
Climbing routes protected by bolts, single point as he says, is more like connecting the dots.
Not to put words in Stans mouth, just my .02...
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:26am PT
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Hey Owlman,
Sorry you had to witness that am I'm psyched the guy is okay. Luck dude. Coud you clarify...was the 'biner that broke on the bolt-end or the rope-end of the draw? Do you know if the climber had stick-clipped the bolt?
Thx,
Mal
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jstan
climber
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:29am PT
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Skipt:
Got a winner there. "extreme bingo!"
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Oct 27, 2008 - 11:30am PT
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Hmm... Broke on "initial" 16 foot fall with 38 feet of rope out. FF about 0.4. That should have been pretty "soft". Dynamic lead rope?
Sounds like operator error - rope or quick-draw placement.
No mention of reasonable first aid or follow-up treatment on the head injury.
At least the weather was good.
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