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Eric McAuliffe
Trad climber
Alpine County, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 6, 2009 - 12:22am PT
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in my attempt to learn to wall climb, i'm trying to dial my systems, i was doing some laps in a tree on a free hanging rope about 40' tall, after a few laps and fidgiting with a new spot for the anchor i was totally fuked up, not puking but felt prety bad for a few hrs etc.
WEIRD! I figured i was feeling bad from a minimal swaying back and forth while hanging/fidgiting with anchor and concentrating on some pruning (objects close to me) and those combined messed me up(perriferals all messed up). anyone else experienced something similar while aiding???
E
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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It happens....
Seen guys puking while being hauled out on El Cap. Similar thing, with the spinning, floating and weird depth perception stuff going on.
Not sure of a cure... practice? Dramamine? Valium?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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I know a guy who puked in the camp 4 lot, while on LSD, after eating some irradiated Halibut from a foil pouch. Not pretty.
So I would not suggest this method (LSD) as any sort of cure.
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scarcollector
climber
CO
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On windy days when the freehanging rope I'm on starts making those goddamned whale noises I think of the sea.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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I suggest you pursue another line of work, but avoid spell-check editing.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Sometimes yo start to spin, which sucks, and yes I have goten dizzy and almost sick. I close my eyes and try not to think about it.
I prefer to jug freehanging ropes with the "Texas style" illustrated in Freedom of the Hills. Smoother and less strenous.
My guess is that your sickness was caused by something else besides the motion.
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MH2
climber
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My guess is that your sickness was caused by something else besides the motion.
Second that, 'cause it shouldn't last "for hours."
OTOH, there is barbecue nystagmus which sounds wicked but only an astronaut is likely to experience it.
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Mythbusters did a special on motion sickness. They found that all of the OTC pills made you tired. Of the homeopathic stuff including magnets and other hogwash the only thing that worked was ginger root.
It was a great episode as they puked a bunch.
Prod.
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apogee
climber
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"They found that all of the OTC pills made you tired."
Umm, yeah, they do that. They're antihistamines, after all. Antihistamine-based motion sickness meds have to be taken before[ symptoms of nausea occur- once you feel puky, the histamines are already in the system.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Two words, Tangerine Trip.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Ask Buggs, BWA Ha Ha Hahahaaaa!!!
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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This came up a lot while dancing for Project Bandaloop doing the "pods" on free hanging ropes with a lot of quick inversions and spinning. We got in the habit of eating a lot of ginger chews which seemed to help, as did practice. Jugging long free hanging ropes, when the spinning starts, just focus on the jugs...
peter
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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I think motion sickness is mostly in people's heads. However, as stated above, ginger root works. A large number of the women I've dated get motion sickness. Have them eat/take some ginger an hour before and they're fine.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Sure, I’ve had my moments of the 'spinnys', most mere mortals do.
That said, I must third Lambone and MH2's points of order -- that if your spinnys last more than a couple minutes after you're off the line, they're not standard spinnys. Perhaps you are simply allergic to your tree (see histamine, a couple post up).
Case In Point: To this day I can't sleep in a juniper grove -- as it quick connects with the three 7UP cans full of gin some pathological 8th grader convinced me to drink all at once back when i was in 7th grade at catholic reform school. I was saved solely by immediate and projectile vomiting -- that and a young hip Christian Brother who pulled the street hockey stick out of my hand in the heartbeat before I actually killed a nun and took me to the hospital. But that is another story, for another day that i pray(ish) will never come.
~~~
There may well be some wisdom in MH2's reference to barbecue nystagmus, if only accidentally. (While I acknowledge that MH2 guesses right remarkably often, I continue to refuse to accept that he has any clue as to why.)
I myself have noticed that what makes my breakfast squirm is jugging on a very bright day under a very large roof - times when i ended up with dark(ish) shadow on one side, and very bright sunlight on the other side. the bright/dark cycle, a kind of slow strobe effect, seems the fastest way to make me weebly. (ok, weeblier). But I quick found the cure. More on that later...
~~~
Now being of course far schmarter and entirely more 'with it' than MH2, I have just wasted an hour and a half researching his barbecue nystagmus hypothesis. (And on my client's dime - gotta love that).
My first mighty insight is that they should call it rotisserie (rather than barbecue) nystagmus, more to the point.
BTW, nystagmus is what Officer Obie is looking for when he makes you follow his finger in front of the flashlight. I could tell you a trick to confound him, but if you dare drive on more than two highballs you deserve what Officer Obie has in store for you, and then some.
~~~
OK, back to big science: I found in my extensive research into the matter the following article:
"Nystagmus Induced By Off-vertical Rotation Axis In The Cat", C. Darlot and P. Denise; Laboratoire de Physiologie Neurosensorielle du CNRS; Journal Experimental Brain Research; Volume 73/Number 1; October, 1988; pp 78-90
What follows is from the abstract/summary of that article:
"In the alert cat, nystagmus induced by off-vertical axis rotation (OVAR) was recorded following steps in head velocity or ramps of velocity at constant acceleration below canal threshold. Dependence of nystagmus characteristics on tilt angle of rotation axis and head velocity was studied. Similar results were obtained with both types of stimulation."
"Mean and modulation amplitude of horizontal eye velocity increased with tilt angle in the range 0–30 degrees. Both variables increased also with head velocity"
"When head rotational velocity was increased above 80°/s, mean eye velocity progressively decreased to zero."
"In several cases, a reduction in phase lead of eye velocity with respect to conventional origin of phases (nose-down position) was observed when head velocity increased."
~~~
From this, my massive intellect immediately gleaned the following -- which may be of use to you (that and add still more to my already rather fat Nobel Prize nominee file. Word is that I may soon win the Nobel in Literature, Physics, Medicine, and Peace -- all in the same year. This will of course silence all of my friends and family members who dare suggest my two decades of research has been no more than "feral dirtbaggery"):
[1] Be an "alert cat" when jugging.
[2] Keep your eyes on a vertical plane (the "nose down position" is to be avoided; as is it's opposite.)
[3] Keep your rotational velocity below 80 degrees per second.
To which I would add, from my own massive experience:
[4] Avoid fixing ropes. Just do the whole damn thing all at once.
[5] Lead the pitch, and hence leave the barbecue nystagmus to the other dope (though this does often mean trading one cause of nausea for another...)
YMMV (though of course mine never does)
^,,^ [apparently now also known as Mandrake, add that to the list. i'm good with that. may reincarnate locally as Mandrake, he's got most of the best lines in the film that is my personal religion]
~~~~~~~~~
"Key words" from the abstract, above: "Otoliths - Nystagmus - Labyrinth - Eye movements - Velocity storage mechanism - Cat"
(this the perhaps the best definition of big aid wall climbing I’ve ever seen. absolute poetry. YOU are the "Velocity storage mechanism" -- baby... This is why I've come to prefer lame, long, and solo alpine stuff. Though, alas, Gravity is at play there too. sheesh...)
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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hey wait.... how about doing some WEEED!
it seems to have some anti-nausea properties.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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I'm not a very good sailor, but I have never gotten motion sickness while jugging a free-hanging rope, and I've probably jugged 25 vertical miles. I use the Frog system, which is hugely easier, faster and less tiring than the standard Yosemite system or the similar [but still different] Texas system.
If you get queasy, or tired, try it this way:
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/big_wall_and_aid_climbing/jugging_the_froggy_way/106076796
And make sure you pick up one of those CMI ankle ascenders - those things are the bomb!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Think about jugging (or rapping) on freehanging goldline.
No, wait, don't think about it or you probably barf right onto your keyboard.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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hahaha! Hey Nef... you've got a wolf humping your leg......
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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That sucks DMT,
Hopefully your remission lasts.
Prod.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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"hahaha! Hey Nef... you've got a wolf humping your leg...... "
Apparently, Russ. hahaha Thought you could use a break tho.
When I looked down I saw a Chihuahua tho, easily flicked off with a little shaking of the leg. Besides, what's a guy with a small dick and even smaller brain gonna do with himself all day anyway? Oh. Wait. Maybe he'll run around telling everyone (falsely) that he hacked the avitars on ST. hahaha
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