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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 22, 2008 - 02:14pm PT
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Hi, All:
I'm revising the first How-To book and need to know if the Equalette has caught on as a viable rigging option so I can either recommend it or not. I know it works but if it's not being used I think I might have to shelf it. I'm mainly at sport climbing areas these days so trad configurations like equalettes are not something I commonly see.
Thanks,
JL
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Nov 22, 2008 - 02:21pm PT
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Same as Cordalette?
All I do is trad climb and I never use it.
It is just another piece of extraneous gear to me; yet my sense is that it, along with the Gri Gri, (another tool I've never used on a regular basis) has achieved relative popularity.
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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Nov 22, 2008 - 02:28pm PT
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JL,
I have two cordalette's and since that's how I was taught (many years ago), I would/will still use it when trad climbing... I'd be curious how others equalize their belays. Perhaps it is an obsolete item.
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Hardluck
Social climber
N of Mexico, S of Sanity
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Nov 22, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
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I use it almost exclusively any time I am climbing multi-pitch, John. The clove hitches make it easy to fine tune after rigging. I say it's a keeper.
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Logdog
Trad climber
Sierra Nevada
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Nov 22, 2008 - 03:24pm PT
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JL- Sometimes I use a "webolette", from Larry Arthur @Mountain Tools. The main benefit is that it is lighter than a cordalette, and like a cordalette, it can be used for many things, like self rescue or tieing off a natural object. Good for alpine climbs where you want an equalized anchor.
-Logan
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nov 22, 2008 - 03:24pm PT
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Never used one, never will.
Oh, it's good in theory. but like a lot of theories, it smells of tech-weenie jerkoff. Like a lot of stuff you hear in the bar, it kinda inclines one toward drinking alone.
The big thing in anchors, as in all climbing systems, is simplicity. It's like that ideal about knots: you need to be able to tie them behind your back in a cold shower after staying up all night. Because sooner or later your life will depend on doing everything right while blind, dumb, distracted and shivering uncontrollably.
I can make mistakes when I'm relative with-it. Not judgment errors, just the everyday stuff like buckling your harness. If my sytems are really simple, it's easier to catch the errors in time.
I'm glad you're revising that book. While I occasionally do some of the things you illustrated the first time around, I was critical of the book because it wasn't setting a great example.
I try really hard to make a bomber anchor every time. To me that means:
Three points of pro.
Each one bomber. (No more than one of them at all questionable.)
Preferably in three different crack systems. (I carry 20' cordelettes and use 'em.)
Equalized.
I use the acronym SERENE
SEcure. Each piece solid.
Redundant.
Equalized.
No
Extension.
To me it's the best acronym because:
1. -- SERENE is how you should feel about your anchor.
2. -- It lays out the steps in order of construction.
Then I often, usually in fact, leave out the No Extension part. I feel that if you pay attention to getting your pieces bomber in the first place, your chances of ever needing to guard your anchor against shock loading are vastly reduced.
And in real life I move around while belaying. Fidget, shift on the mediocre footholds, get in my pack for a drink, and move over when the second arrives. All of those compromise the rigid single point enforced by No Extension. I feel it's far more useful to maintain a sliding, continually equalized "power point." (Is there a better word for that?) And shock loading is unlikely anyway with my bomber placements.
So my actual practice is more like SERE(NE), but I use the word anyway to aspire to anchors always giving that feeling and to remind my students of the possibility of knotting for No Extension.
Glad you're revising the book, and if my simpleminded ideas tend make it too skinny, I'll add this: As a guide, the single biggest boost of the last 20 years was a simple device called a Gigi. It's a self-locking belay plate for belaying up the second, and it hangs right on the anchor. Hands-free belaying so I can eat, drink, take off a layer, re-sunscreen and be ready to power onward.
Nowadays several of the belay devices have this function built in. Saves my back a lot on belays. Look for a design that allows you to release the self-lock and give slack, even under the full weight of a fallen second.
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evenkeel
climber
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Nov 22, 2008 - 03:49pm PT
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"I always use three bomber anchors."
Ever climbing in the ruth gorge?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 22, 2008 - 03:58pm PT
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I tend to agree with DR - the KISS principle sometimes overrides the SERENE bit. Three solid, varied pieces, belayer securely tied to same. Beyond that, it's often details.
Also, in terms of belay failure, the issue may be more high fall factor falls by the leader above the belay. Especially where protection fails. So that may be something to emphasize, how critical it is that the first few pieces be solid.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nov 22, 2008 - 04:59pm PT
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Nope, never climbed in the Ruth Gorge, and rock quality is one good reason. (along with ferocious storms).
Bridwell's story of leading soft snow over granite slab on the Moose's Tooth, 200' out with no pro and a shovel for an ice tool, is about gripping enough to keep me away (maybe it had something to do, too, with his eyes getting wider in the firelight as he recalled it).
California: good rock, good weather. Any questions?
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Nov 22, 2008 - 05:22pm PT
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I saw the picture from your old book. I haven't been out
in the trad alpine scene in about 7 years so I don't know
about those new screamers etc.
Equalizing a load is good, but usually the impact or load
bearing force is still dependent upon 1 hook whether bi, tri,
quad etc. pods.
I'll leave it up to you to decide.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2008 - 05:49pm PT
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Interesting discussion so far. My sense is that even though the cordelette was proven to be very poor at equalizing (unless the arms of the cordelette are exactly the same length), people by and large still go with it because it's simple to rig.
IMO, this is a sound strategy only so long as the team understands that, with most cordelette set ups, the first piece off the belay is more important as a load limiter than the belay itself.
JL
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evenkeel
climber
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Nov 22, 2008 - 05:53pm PT
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what is wrong with the very simple, very easy to set up, equalized x? This is old hat, beating into a dead horse, but really seems the simple solution to equalizing anchors is the logical one.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Nov 22, 2008 - 06:05pm PT
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John, you wrote "... the first piece off the belay is more important as a load limiter than the belay itself.
I could not agree more! I see so many climbers with good belay anchors leading way right or way left or way far without setting good directional pieces. They do not seem to grasp the physics of the situation. I would suggest that the setting of SOLID directional pieces off the belay is a cardinal rule.
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evenkeel
climber
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Nov 22, 2008 - 06:09pm PT
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on the subject. Should one or should one not clip the heighest piece in the belay as the first lead piece if the next piece is 8 feet higher?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Nov 22, 2008 - 06:21pm PT
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I didn't learn the equalette when it was the raging discussion. But I can tell you that several guys I have climbed with who are in the early to mid 20's age range, and internet forum users, DO use the equalette. And each has desperately wanted to explain to me just exactly how wonderful it is.... Go on rc.com and I bet you will find a larger percentage of people who have adopted the technique.
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nov 22, 2008 - 06:38pm PT
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Definitely clip the top piece of your anchor. No way after that can you get a fall factor of 2. And get in another piece asap. It's crucial because so little rope is in the system, and the rope itself is by far the best shock absorber you have. Well, unless of course you count the two human bodies squishing in their harnesses, which helps 'a ton' too.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Nov 22, 2008 - 06:51pm PT
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I played with the equalete concept a few years before the name caught up with it and abandoned it fairly quickly. You end up trying to adapt the solution to the situation rather than coming up with the best setup for the situation.
I carry a cordelete, but in most cases it ends up just being used like a big azz sling. On the other hand I almost always have Double, triple, and shoulder length slings along and those end up in the belay anchor in various configurations all the time.
One thing that has been lost is the concept of the "stance".
Some of us old farts instinctively position ourselves so that the anchor is only redundant backup, particularly when bringing up a second.
Another concept that seems to be lost is belaying where the simple bomber anchors and ledges present themselves.
It's amazing how often a 20-30 something rope gun will pass a comfortable ledge with a big tree or block only to spend 15 min rigging a complex anchor in an uncomforable spot. Or rig a TR at J Tree with half a dozen pieces when a V8 engine size wedged block provides a bomproof slung anchor. Or whine about having run out of gear when a figure 8 in the rope lassoing a feature would provide an anchor you could haul a truck up with.
One more issue, the proliferation of the daisy chain (personal anchor). No one is ever going to convince me that anything other than the rope, (with its energy absorbing capabilities) is the right thing to tie in with. I've seen to many shock loaded slings break in industrial settings and have a deep appreciation for the forces that you can attain with rediculously short drops on non stretching slings.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Nov 22, 2008 - 06:57pm PT
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I would think it would be good to leave in the book, you know another tool in the toolbox.
However I just have two pre-rigged sliding Xs with limiter knots I've used 100% of the time for the last few years. Simple, superfast, bomber, equalizing.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Gunks, NY
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Nov 22, 2008 - 06:57pm PT
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apologies if this question illuminates my position as being one of pure ignorance, but by equallette do you mean a normal cordelette clipped into 3 bomber pieces, and then tied off? (more or less)
or are you referring to some gadgetry like a web-o-lette?
I am a newish trad leader (26) and I use the cordalette method. Seems simple to me and I dont have to worry about not having enough slack to make a decent knot and a decent sized master point. I always clip my top piece leading off the belay but I have toyed with the idea of making the anchor with the rope and clove hitching gear in series but I have yet to try this because it seems to have more variables that could go wrong.
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