Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 1, 2008 - 11:44am PT
|
This is our land. A land of peace and of plenty. A land of harmony and hope. This is our land. America. These are our people. The workers, the strivers, the builders. These are our people. The builders of our world, struggling, fighting, bleeding, dying. On the streets of our cities and on the far-flung battlefields. Fighting against the mutilation of our hopes and dreams.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2008 - 11:51am PT
|
They are the dark armies.
The dark, murdering armies of Eurasia.
In the barren deserts of Africa and India...
on the oceans of Australasia...
courage, strength, and youth are sacrificed.
Sacrificed to barbarians, whose only honor is atrocity.
But even as we grasp at victory...
there is a cancer, an evil tumor...
growing, spreading in our midst.
Shout, shout...
shout out his name!
Goldstein!
Nothing the Party says is true.
Nothing the Party does is good.
Even the war itself isn't real.
The Party wants you to believe we are at war...
so as to channel your aggressions away from their rightful target...
the Party.
Big Brother is not real.
He is pure fiction, created by the Party.
The real rulers of the State...
are unknown, faceless manipulators...
who, because they are not known...
are able to wield power without let or hindrance.
People of Oceania, you are being duped.
The Party doesn't serve the people, it serves itself.
We are not at war with Eurasia.
Death! Death! Traitor!
You are being made into obedient...
stupid slaves of the Party.
Open your eyes.
See the evil that is happening to you.
The Party drops bombs on its own citizens.
Traitor!
It is the Party, not the Eurasians, who are our enemies.
Rise up.
Throw off the yoke.
You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.
People of Oceania.
|
|
Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
|
|
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2008 - 12:09pm PT
|
Its not over until you summit, and you liberal bastards have 3 new wave A5 pitches to go.
Tomorrow my Sarah will defeat your old man.
Juan
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
Some excerpts from Bob's link. Obama this morning in LaCrosse WI on the financial mess.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/10/01/happening-now-obama-in-wisconsin/#more-21664
EXCERPT OF
Remarks of Senator Barack Obama—as prepared for delivery
La Crosse, Wisconsin
………………………
On Monday, over the course of a few hours, the failure to pass the economic rescue plan in the House led to the single largest decline of the stock market in two decades. Over one trillion dollars of wealth was lost by the time the markets closed. And it wasn’t just the wealth of a few CEOs or Wall Street executives. The 401Ks and retirement accounts that millions count on for their family’s future are now smaller. The state pension funds of teachers and government employees lost billions upon billions of dollars. Hardworking Americans who invested their nest egg to watch it grow are now watching it disappear…………
Let me be perfectly clear. The fact that we are in this mess is an outrage. It’s an outrage because we did not get here by accident. This was not a normal part of the business cycle. This was not the actions of a few bad apples.
This financial crisis is a direct result of the greed and irresponsibility that has dominated Washington and Wall Street for years. It’s the result of speculators who gamed the system, regulators who looked the other way, and lobbyists who bought their way into our government. It’s the result of an economic philosophy that says we should give more and more to those with the most and hope that prosperity trickles down to everyone else; a philosophy that views even the most common-sense regulations as unwise and unnecessary. And this crisis is the final verdict on this failed philosophy – a philosophy that we cannot afford to continue.
But while there is plenty of blame to go around and many in Washington and on Wall Street who deserve it, all of us now have a responsibility to solve this crisis because it affects the financial well-being of every single American. There will be time to punish those who set this fire, but now is the moment for us to come together and put the fire out……….
First, I said we needed an independent board to provide oversight and accountability for how and where this money is spent at every step of the way.
Second, I said that we cannot help banks on Wall Street without helping the millions of innocent homeowners who are struggling to stay in their homes. They deserve a plan too.
Third, I said that I would not allow this plan to become a welfare program for the Wall Street executives whose greed and irresponsibility got us into this mess.
And finally, I said that if American taxpayers are financing this solution, then you should be treated like investors – you should get every penny of your tax dollars back once this economy recovers…………
From the moment I take office, my top priority will be to do everything I can to make sure that your tax dollars are protected. I will demand a full review of this financial rescue plan to make sure that it is working for you. If you – the American taxpayer – are not getting your money back, then we will change how this program is being managed. If need be, we will send new legislation to Congress to make sure that taxpayers are protected in line with the principles that I have put forward. You should expect nothing less from Washington.
If we do have losses, I’ve proposed a Financial Stability Fee on the financial services industry so Wall Street foots the bill – not the American taxpayer. And as I modernize the financial system to create new rules of the road to prevent another crisis, we will continue this fee to build up a reserve so that if this happens again, it will be the money contributed by banks that’s put at risk.
This will only work if there is real enforcement and real accountability. And that starts with presidential leadership. So let me be very clear: when I am President, financial institutions will do their part and pay their share, and American taxpayers will never again have to put their money on the line to pay for the greed and irresponsibility of Wall Street. That’s a pledge that I’ll make to you today, and it’s one that I’ll keep as President of the United States.
Accountability must start with this rescue plan, but it cannot end there. Across Wisconsin – and across the country – families are sitting down at the kitchen table and making hard choices. You’re planning for your future in tough times. You’re squeezing just a little bit more out of next month’s paycheck so you can pay next month’s bills. It’s time for Washington to do the same.
We cannot mortgage our children’s future on a mountain of debt. It’s time to put an end to the run-away spending and the record deficits – it’s not how you would run your family budget, and it must not be how Washington handles your tax dollars. It’s time to return to the fiscal responsibility and pay as you go budgeting that we had in the 1990s. Many in Congress have been fighting for these commonsense principles, and I will be a President who supports them and makes sure they succeed. That’s why I’m not going to stand here and simply tell you what I’m going to spend – I’m going to start by telling you how we’re going to save when I am President.
I will go through the entire federal budget, page by page, line by line, and eliminate the programs that don’t work and aren’t needed. We should start by ending a war in Iraq that is costing us $10 billion a month while the Iraqi government sits on a $79 billion surplus. We should stop sending $15 billion a year in overpayments to insurance companies for Medicare, and go after tens of billions of dollars in Medicare and Medicaid fraud. We need to stop sending three billion a year to banks that provide student loans the government could provide for less. And we can end the hundreds of millions a year in subsidies to agribusiness that can survive just fine without your tax dollars, and use some of the money to help struggling family farmers. That’s what I’ll do as President.
And we can’t stop there. We lose $100 billion every year because corporations set up mailboxes offshore so they can avoid paying a dime of taxes in America. In the Senate, I worked across the aisle to crack down on these schemes. And as President, I will shut down those offshore tax havens and all those corporate loopholes once and for all. You shouldn’t have to pay higher taxes because some big corporation cut corners to avoid paying theirs. All of us have a responsibility to pay our fair share. That’s accountability. And that’s what we’ll have when I’m President.
As for the programs we do need, I will make them work better and cost less. I will create a High-Performance Team of experts that evaluates every agency and every office based on how well they’re serving the American taxpayer. I will save billions of dollars by cutting private contractors and improving management and oversight of the hundreds of billions of dollars our government spends on contracts. And I will finally end the abuse of no-bid contracts once and for all – the days of sweetheart deals for Halliburton will be over when I’m in the White House.
Make no mistake: we need to end an era in Washington where accountability has been absent, oversight has been overlooked, and your tax dollars have been turned over to wealthy CEOs and well-connected corporations. You need leadership that you can trust to work for you – not for the special interests who have had their thumb on the scale. And together, we will tell the Washington lobbyists that their days of setting the agenda are over. They have not funded this campaign, they won’t work in my White House, and they won’t drown out the voices of the American people when I’m President………….
END OF EXCERPT
Sounds a lot like the old time Republicans for whom I used to vote!
Thanks for the link Bob.
|
|
Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
|
|
Tomorrow my Sarah will defeat your old man. You must be talking about old pucker face.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
Jeff:
You are right, of course. Seems to me citizens should have the freedom to spend their personal funds as wisely or as poorly as they choose.
But whatever choosing of theirs turns out poorly, they should have to bear the consequences.
From the government's side,
the government needs to work to assure interest rates are based on real factors and are economically sustainable
the government needs to work to assure that business is conducted with integrity, contracts and agreements are met
As to how to deal with such things as predatory business practices, I think this has to be seen as an educational issue. Being smart has to be the responsibility of the person. The government can't review every contract. It can work to provide education and it can pursue illegal business practices.
Freedom is a two sided coin. Freedom on one side. Responsibility to bear the consequences of your choices is the other side.
Edit:
IMO schools were good when I was in high school. But even there no one ever mentioned how to manage money or to do a present value calculation. I wonder if that is the way we really should be doing things.
|
|
bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
Good post John...I agree with most of your points.
The CRA act was introduced by Jimmy Carter and became a very successful program allowing lower to lower middle class a way to own a home. It was highly regulated and as stated before successful with a high pay back return....until the early 2000's when parimeters regarding the act were relaxed and all hell broke loose.
OBama has a grasp of this and other important issues facing Americans...we are in for a rough ride and think that he over McCain can smooth out the ride with intelligent forethought and diplomacy.
Jeff...you almost have to feel sorry for McCain at this point...his campaign people should never be able to work on another campaign for the rest of their political careers.
|
|
Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
|
|
Glad you are finally accepting your fate Juan, it will be less painful for you in the end.
As the great college basketball coach, Bobby Knight, once said referring to the issue of rape:
"If you're about to be raped, you might as well lie back and enjoy it!".
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
Don't forget to call Diebold!
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
|
|
|
|
malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
|
|
Why are you so stuck on McCain anyway Fattrad? His campaign has been a disgrace. He's 10 steps behind and it's clear he really does not understand what's going on. Your business will flourish just as well when Obama is president. Obama has called on people to be responsible, that's consistently part of his message. You can't honestly think that human nature has changed. It should be clear now (if it wasn't clear before for some people) that without proper regulation, this kind of thing will always happen.
|
|
bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
|
|
i know you won't care, but...
"Unlike the McCain campaign, which has made its complete donor database available online, the Obama campaign has not identified donors for nearly half the amount he has raised, according to the Center for Responsive Politics (CRP).
Federal law does not require the campaigns to identify donors who give less than $200 during the election cycle. However, it does require that campaigns calculate running totals for each donor and report them once they go beyond the $200 mark.
Surprisingly, the great majority of Obama donors never break the $200 threshold.
“Contributions that come under $200 aggregated per person are not listed,” said Bob Biersack, a spokesman for the FEC. “They don’t appear anywhere, so there’s no way of knowing who they are.”
The FEC breakdown of the Obama campaign has identified a staggering $222.7 million as coming from contributions of $200 or less. Only $39.6 million of that amount comes from donors the Obama campaign has identified.
It is the largest pool of unidentified money that has ever flooded into the U.S. election system, before or after the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reforms of 2002."
go here for the full text: http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/Obama_fundraising_illegal/2008/09/29/135718.html
|
|
bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
|
|
emptybook...are you making a cause for or against?
All that proves is that the average Joe is supporting Obama with what little money they can afford to send.
You really seems like a scared man.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
And from such a reliable source too: "Newsmax."
Bookworm, do you ever read anything besides the right wing smear?
Or did Governor Palin kindly remove other reading materials from your local library to protect you?
Book banning: an idea Palin got from her hours staring across the Bering Strait at Russia.
Oh nevermind, I forgot Palin reads all the newspapers.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
I have made a number of contributions to the Obama campaign totaling the max in the primary. I have to do more to reach the max in the election itself. The computerized input form seemed to include all of the legally required information, though I am no expert on that law. With two million contributors I can see that verification of every form filed would require a major database and investigative activity. The link supplied above indicates others have been interested in helping to provide the support to do this. I am sure the campaign appreciates this assistance.
Since the campaign is not legally required to identify contributors of less than $200, I would think the campaign would have to receive permission from each of these donors before their identities could be released. That cannot be a high priority, certainly prior to Nov. 4, would seem to me.
Contributions from something over two million individuals was an objective Obama planned for. If he becomes President there will be a significant body of people who are invested in the goals he has set out. Something that resembles the idea behind democracy. Interesting idea, eh?
I rather expect he has permanently changed election practices and funding in the US. He did it in a way that required no laws. Only something that looks, disturbingly, like leadership.
These characteristics were, indeed, my first inkling that I needed to support him. They are real data. They are deeds. They were not just promises or words.
|
|
bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
|
|
read the whole article...why won't obama release ALL the records the way mccain has?
the point is that there are several cases where an individual has far exceeded the legal amount...come on, even you hopenchangers should want full disclosure...the new politics, right? a different kind of politician, right?
or maybe you don't care if obama is being bought...maybe you believe he will change after he is elected even though there's no evidence he will
like i said...faithy
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
You're right Bookworm. Secretary Chertoff should issue a yellow alert. Newsmax is reporting a Muslim presidential candidate is raising millions in small donations.
Sound the alarm!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!