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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Dec 23, 2007 - 10:20am PT
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It looks like I may be able to get a used dslr with my holiday bonuses...Of course I am chomping at the bit, but wondering if it is worth waiting til after the holiday season.
I will probably buy from Keh online, or go to B&H here in the city in person.
Do you, who have some experience in selling/buying camera crap, think that there is generally a good influx after the gift-giving season? Enough to merit waiting?
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SteveW
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Dec 23, 2007 - 10:42am PT
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Happie
I don't know about the waiting, but I always had
great experiences with mail order from B&H.
I got a couple of old Olympus OM-1 SLR bodies from
them and they worked well.
Hope you get a great deal!!!!
Happy Merry and Merry Happy!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 23, 2007 - 12:08pm PT
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both B&H and KEH have been good to me in the past... I don't think you can go wrong there.
I can't answer your question, though, whether or not to wait. Gotta think that the time between Christmas and tax-day is the period to shed inventory. Also, when does the new gear get to the shelf? That might be another date to wait for.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 23, 2007 - 12:27pm PT
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I got a almost new D200 for sale. I have two of them and looking to buy the new D300.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Dec 23, 2007 - 06:51pm PT
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Hey Happie,
Both of those outfits are top notch. Since you're so close, however, I recommend heading in to B&H. Their service is great and they have quite a used gear selection. Not to mention you'll be in awe of their store. Tons o' stuff!
Any idea what you're looking to get? Buying new (new used too) gear is fun! I just picked up a 100-400mm L IS and the Canon 15mm f/2.8 fisheye! LOVE the fisheye! It's the sharpest lens I have ever shot. Sharper than any Canon "L" lens I have used, including the 300mm f2.8! Colors and contrast are incredible!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2007 - 07:04pm PT
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Thanks everyone. I definitely would go to B&H in person. Went once and found they have more used gear than shows on the website when I did.
What am I looking to get? A few months ago when I started thinking about it, I decided to go Nikon over Canon, but it isn't carved in stone.
And it/s really the price that will be the deciding factor, unfortunately. It's only been since the release of the Canon Rebel and the Nikon D40 that new dslr's came to a price I could handle. Even so, $6-800 is too high for me. I'm looking to get a camera and one starter lens for around $500.
When the Nikon d40 came out, the reviewers gave it a thumbs down. I can't remember what the reasons were, but it made sense at the time. One reviewer said, you may as well go with a D50 for just a little higher price.
And so, I had been thinking the D50 would be it, since that, the D40 and the Canon Rebel were in the opening price points. That camera isn't available as often as some others, though. There was one listed on keh last week, and now it's already gone. But now it seems that there are other styles that fit the range, so I am going to start researching again.
The time I went to B&H, the guy was pretty helpful, but I have to admit I am a little uncomfortable about it because I really don't even know what questions to ask, when shown the various options. I don't seem to be able to retain detailed information that I read very well. I worry that I'll go in there, and get sold something simply because it fits the price I am looking to spend.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Dec 23, 2007 - 07:12pm PT
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I don't know if this will help, but maybe:
first decide what you want to use the camera for, landscape, action/sport, etc...
that should determine a lot about the camera, lens, etc.... you've already gone over that in your mind 'cause you're thinking beyond a point-and-shoot.
You could go to http://www.photo.net and read what people have to say about the cameras your are thinking about (in the gear section) and look at images that people have made using the gear you are thinking about getting...
And also read all the reviews on line...
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 23, 2007 - 07:19pm PT
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Happie go to the store. the upstairs is used equipment. the thing w/ d40 it only uses digitial DX lenses so you are limited that way. if you could find a used d70 d80 d200 i would reccomend those. don't know much on the d50 but i heard it has good high iso photos
Bob, imo the d300 upgrade from d200 is not worth it. wait until the d3 (something like the d3x) upgrade comes out
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 23, 2007 - 07:21pm PT
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Bad...I have two d200 bodies....wouldn't mind selling one to check out the d300...from what I understand not really that much of an upgrade.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2007 - 10:42pm PT
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For a "cheap camera," I would probably stick with Fujifilm Finepix. The S9000 has 10x optical zoom, compared to 6X with the one I have now(which I bought 3.5 years ago). It has some manual settings, or can go fully automatic. Also, I think the stabilization has been improved.
It's still bulky compared to the pocket-sized cameras though. But I don't tend to take my camera up routes. I am not really an "on the fly" photographer, and prefer to either be acting as photog, or not.
The thing that has been frustrating for me, in the last year, is that I feel I can't "get" the shot I am looking for with my camera, and I think that any P&S is going to be a similar frustration.
I can't remember the technical terms used, but it's like - when I "see" my shot, the camera just can't get wide enough to include the scene I want, without being zoomed out further than I desire.
Of course, I know that there are great photographers who capture wonderful shots with the most basic of cameras.... so maybe I'm just in denial. I certainly am expecting to see a big dip in the quality of my shots when I started shooting with the slr and get used to the adjustments. But, I hope that eventually I'll improve.
If not, then I just have to accept that I'll never be more than a mediocre9to less than mediocre) photographer, and in that case, would probably go back to an automatic with with some manual adjustment options.
One thing that does worry me, about the slr's, is that I am guessing that I'll need to plunk down some big cash for various lenses. But at least I can buy them one at a time.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Dec 23, 2007 - 10:46pm PT
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Happie...the Canon G9 is supposed to be a amazing little camera...you might want to check it out. I just spend a few thousand on getting a couple of DX lens and stop using my old film lenses...something else to think about.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Dec 23, 2007 - 11:47pm PT
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Glad you're not getting a D40, happie! There are plenty of reasons not too. For one, there isn't an AF (AutoFocus) motor in it. SO, if you plan to use any third party lenses, it's a no go as only a couple of them have AF motors built into the lens. Also, the body is a really stripped down camera, as far as features. In the end, you'd be wanting a lot more camera in a short period of time.
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Dec 24, 2007 - 08:53am PT
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happie don't forget espicially if you want to take macros and landscapes is you Need a tripod. imo save $$ for a good tripod and ball head(gitzo). that's the problem w/ photography it costs too much money!
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 24, 2007 - 09:06am PT
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Thanks for the info Khanom. The d4o is out, for the reasons mentioned above. I go on Photosig.com to learn about photography, and have checked out some other sites too, and the one thing that has jumped out at me from d40 buyers was that they were very quickly disappointed. I guess the camera is fine for someone who really wants a P&S but wants to look look they are 'in the game' of shooting.... Most people trying to improve their work are like "Gaaaargghh!!!"
As for the tripod - oh, I already learned that one! Knowing nothing, I went to a local shop and told them I wanted to start using a tripod for macro. I told him I didn't want to spend a LOT of money.... He asked about my camera and I had it along with. D'ya think the guy might have told me it was a waste of my money to buy a cheapie? No. He said "This'll do ya just fine, and your camera weight will be okay with it." And sent me out the store with a piece of equipment that is shakier than me on a day when I've had too much coffee. Luckily, it really WAS cheap.
Nice shot, BI!
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Dec 24, 2007 - 09:46am PT
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i've been mighty damn happy with my D40, the simularities between it and the d80, even the d200 are huge. i've spent time with them both, and for the price, ya just can't beat the d40.
the 18-55 lens that came with it is great, and i've added the 18-200vr which is exceptional.
this is about the only thing that gets me, it can't take the 50mm f/1.8. that would have been really nice when i was at the shed last week. but how often am i going to use a lens like that anyways? not very. i'll probobly just buy it anyways and manually focus.
the d40 is a hella good camera at a great price. the d200 is an exceptional camera. IMO, everything in between, is more money than the d40, and less camera than the d200, and kind of a waste.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Dec 24, 2007 - 09:54am PT
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My wife bought a Canon 30D from B & H mail order. No problems what so ever. Just make sure you get an extra memory card. It's worth it!
Robert
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TradIsGood
Recently unshackled climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Dec 24, 2007 - 10:51am PT
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Hmm. I have D70. And a couple lenses - a digital one and the zoom I used with the N80 when I traded up to the D70.
If only I had not looked at a D80 the other day...
:-)
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Dec 26, 2007 - 01:04pm PT
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OK... Let me just point out some of the bigger reasons NOT to get a D40, once again... Even though Happie has already decided against it.
* No lens motor in body means non-AF-S/AF-I lenses are
manual focus only
* Disappointingly RAW+JPEG setting only records Basic quality
JPEG's
* No status LCD panel on top of camera (we hate to see these
go)
* No exposure or white balance bracketing
* No hard buttons (without customizing) for ISO or White
Balance
* No depth-of-field preview
* Occasional visibility of moire artifacts (although seldom)
* Fixed exposure steps (1/3 EV)
* Disappointing automatic white balance performance in
incandescent light
* No RAW adjustment with supplied PictureProject, only simple
conversion
* Limited image parameter adjustment (especially for color
saturation)
The lack of an autofocus motor SERIOUSLY limits the number of lenses you can use with this camera. You can't use very many of the Nikon lenses, for one. It really puts you back into an upper-end amateur Point-and-Shoot camera. The image quality will be better, for sure, but the camera is so stripped of the features that you buy into a DSLR package for that it's a moot point.
I guess the big question you can ask yourself, when considering a D40 is this: Can I buy a nice Point-and-Shoot camera and be happy with that for at least a few years? If so, then, great. Buy a D40. If, for a second, however, you even *think* you might want to expand your photography, experiment with different lenses, do larger prints, etc. Then don't even consider the camera. You can buy far better cameras on the used market for far less! You can pick up a Canon Rebel XT or a 20D for a $2-300 less than a D40. You can get a Rebel Xti for less. You can pick up a Nikon D80 for roughly the same price, or less if you hunt. You can pick up a Pentax K10D (which is a phenomenal camera, btw) for the same price. Even the Sony Alpha is a better camera and, guess what? Less $$$$.
And if you think you're going to buy this and sell it for decent coin in the future when you figure out you've outgrown your camera... Guess again! Camera prices drop like rocks now days. Think Cadillac; you drive it off the lot, it just lost %40 of it's value. Within the last year, the buy-and-sell camera game has really changed as technology has grown and come to us faster! You can count on your purchase being worth about half what you paid in about a year, year and a half time frame.
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Dec 26, 2007 - 04:48pm PT
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okay, first a couple of points. ^^ this guy, knows a fukload more about cameras than i do. this is either a liability or an asset when getting camera advice.
"OK... Let me just point out some of the bigger reasons NOT to get a D40, once again... Even though Happie has already decided against it."
not that it matters, buy whatever you want, but i love my little d40 and want to defend it, and i just got done driving 7 hours and need something to do while i wind down.....
"* No lens motor in body means non-AF-S/AF-I lenses are
manual focus only"
this is totally 100% true. but probably doesn't matter absolutely one bit to anybody except a person that already owns a bunch of old nikon lenses. chances are, the 18-55 is all you'll ever need. otherwise, the 18-200 vr is almost definitly all you'll ever need. you'll be bummed about not being about to use the fast 50mm lens, but even if you bought it, you'll probably not use it much. especially for outdoors stuff.
"* Disappointingly RAW+JPEG setting only records Basic quality
JPEG's"
i didn't even know it had that setting. i don't use RAW. i don't have enough time to care about shooting RAW. chances are you won't either. if you do, then spend ALLOT more on the camera, your computer, your monitor, your printer, and quite your job so you have enough time to actually edit all of those shots.
"* No status LCD panel on top of camera (we hate to see these
go)"
you get all of your settings instantly on the rear LCD with the info button. the rear lcd is easier to read and right in front of your face, unlike the top LCD which you have to flip the camera for. i'm glad they didn't put a top LCD on it. if your a holdover from shooting 35mm film you might miss it.
"* No exposure or white balance bracketing"
true. but you probobly won't use this anyways, a holdover feature from the film days. shoot, look at the lcd, adjust exposure or WB as needed.
"* No hard buttons (without customizing) for ISO or White
Balance"
this "customizing" requires like two menu clicks.
"* No depth-of-field preview"
again, shoot, look at the nice big bright lcd, adjust and shoot again. btw: the LCD on the D40 is allot nicer than that on the D80.
i found the other stuff nitpicky enough that i didn't have much of an opinion.
in a nutshell, i think the D40 is a great stepping stone camera for those looking for primarily more speed than a point and shoot, but don't need nearly as much horsepower as a D200, D300 ect. i shoot 500-2000 pics with mine a week, climbing, biking and work (construction sites and working high on the outside of skyscrapers). probably what i like BEST about it, is that its small, light and cheap enough that i'm happy to carry it with me almost everywhere.
if i had a D200, i'd seriously think twice about carrying it when i'm more than happy to have the d40 with me. if i dropped it and smashed it, i think i'd be more concerned about loosing the shots than the camera, so long as i happend to have the 18-55 and not the 18-200vr on it at the time.
it is a serious step up from the PAS camera's i used to carry around. wish i would have bought it sooner.
but really, i'm no authority on this stuff, i'm just a dude that likes to take photos. not a photographer. i think thats the target market and i think nikon nailed it.
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