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Prod
Social climber
Charlevoix, MI
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Oct 29, 2007 - 01:16pm PT
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Pictures and spicific details, lots and lots of pictures. Pictures showing the right way as well as the wrong way to do almost everything. Beaking, hooking, pounding pins, etc.
Of the books I read. I liked Mittendorfs and Longs book but wish there was an updated version. Ogdens book was pretty good as well. Never did get Chongo's book, is it any good?
Edit... Assume your reader has very little conceptual framework. This allows a person with more experience to skim sections while not alienating a novice.
Prod.
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Brian Boyd
Trad climber
Scottsdale, AZ
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Oct 29, 2007 - 02:13pm PT
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I'm partial to the 'Self-coached climber' layout: A mix of color photos and drawings, chapter summaries, and good mix of big picture and practical content. The book also has a DVD -- neat idea, but so-so content. Craig Luebben's basic rock climbing book is also set up nicely as well.
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Oct 29, 2007 - 03:44pm PT
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The absolute best big wall book that I've ever read is "Big Wall Climbing: Elite Technique" by Jared Ogden. Every time I read it, I learn something new.
I think that the "Simple Stuff" of big walls has been gone through about a billion times in as many books. This book gives you the starting-out beta, as well as stuff like kind of elaborate pin stacking techniques, etc. Its an amazing book.
Something to consider:
With wall climbing, there are simple techniques for simple situations, then advanced techniques, for when the loads are moster, the its a winter ascent, or the pitches are hard nailing pitches. When a book tries to address all of this, a new climber can become confused about where to draw the line, and end up over-complicating things on their first walls, leading to situations that are frustrating at the least and maybe even dangerous.
Consider organizing key sections in two parts:
1) Getting Started (Example: Hauling)- Hauling for your first, simple wall: Basic setup, hauling devices available, things that can go wrong, how to get "Help" on the line from the second climber if need be, docking the pig, lowering out, selecting a static vs dynamic haul line.
2) Advanced Technique (Example: Hauling) - Counterweight hauling, hauling 2 loads vs 1 monster load, flagging your ledge, using cargo hook on the pig when soloing, how to rig a 2:1 and 3:1, far end hauling for the soloist, etc.
That's just one example of how a section could be designed to not overwhelm a beginner but also help someone who is not such a beginner.
Finally: For diagrams of belay stations, rope systems, knots, etc. it is really nice to use color drawings, not just line drawings. See Jared Ogden's book for an excellent example of this.
For the DVD - it would be awesome to show people hauling solo, together, leg hauling, etc. This is such a cluster when you're getting started, and it doesn't need to be.
I hope this helps, Chris!
-Kate.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 29, 2007 - 11:56pm PT
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You should design the book in such a way the reader will learn.
On the front cover you will have your usual poser picture on some climb.
Then Book opens to first page and only page.
It says: "Meet me at the base, and don't be late."
The back cover .....?
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Jello
Social climber
No Ut
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Oct 30, 2007 - 12:58am PT
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Werner, books have their place. So do gurus. However, gurus are more rare than books, so books are a transition between not knowing and experience; so serve their purpose as sort of placeholders in a climber's progression - until the student is ready and the teacher appears. But you know that!
-Jello
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marky
climber
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Oct 30, 2007 - 01:18am PT
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IMO, the old Middendorf/Longo monograph is best at capturing the whole big wall zeitgeist
I don't think you will improve appreciably upon either Middendorf/Largo or the Ogden book.
Where you can add value, however, is going over the various solo systems, emphasizing both historical and contemporary technique
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sween345
climber
back east
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Oct 30, 2007 - 07:55pm PT
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NIAD for Dummies
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Oct 30, 2007 - 08:04pm PT
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I think the only way to improve over Ogden's is to associate it WITH a CD...for example, go to this point on the CD to see this system in action:
* Jugging techniques (Frog, Grigri and ascender, two ascender)
* Cleaning penjis/lowering out
* Docking the pig/lowering out
* Hauling techniques as mentioned before
* Belay station organization
* Portaledge set-up tricks (soloists especially)
* Mechanical advantage systems
* Low-impact pin placement/removal
* Getting high in the aiders
* Backstepping and balancing
* Gentle travel on hooks/traverses
* Heading
* Modified hooks and other weird stuff
* Bounce testing (get low on the lower piece, how to stay in balance, don't look up!)
I think that video of these techniques would provide a tremendous advantage over still photos and diagrams. Aside from that, I can't think of a thing that you could add to Jared O's book to make it better.
I don't think it should be book OR DVD. It should be book AND DVD, maybe.
-Kate.
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Impaler
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Oct 30, 2007 - 08:13pm PT
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John Long's book on building anchors was how I learned to place gear and make gear anchors. The book was very helpful and after reading it I could just get out and climb without any doubt that I'm doing it safely. I still do 90% of things the same way as I learned from it.
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
Yosemite, CA
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Oct 30, 2007 - 09:13pm PT
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Green Gear published something called a video guide to aid climbing. When I was learning to aid climb, the two main resources I had was John Longs book and this video. I watched the video over and over and learned a lot from it. I think this was done by Mittendorf (not sure). I am pretty sure it is out of print. The sections that helped me the most were on cleaning a pitch (methods of using your jumars to pass pieces or unweight pieces to clean them, obviously on pitches that are not straight up) and on lowering out. These are hard to show in diagrams.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Oct 30, 2007 - 09:32pm PT
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The Jebus of visual information stuff like this is a guy named Edward Tufte, he has a web site at www.edwardtufte.com as well as 4 books. The earlier books are a little more on graphs and charts, but the later ones deal more generally with how to present information visually. He also does one day courses, you can find the listings on the web site, looks like he'll be in CA in January.
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matty
Big Wall climber
Valencia, CA
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Oct 30, 2007 - 09:38pm PT
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I have always liked Extreme Alpinism by Twight. There is a calculus book I like that explains every section in several different ways (written, algebraically, numerically and graphically), perhaps this approach could be modified to a climbing book (written, illustrated and demonstrated on dvd). Also in textbook fashion consider putting a few questions/example situations at the end of each section, some food for thought, then put your analysis of each question/situation in the back.
Matt
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marky
climber
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Oct 30, 2007 - 09:46pm PT
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It would be uber-Tacopian if you titled it "Big Wall Climbing: Yer Gonna Die!!!"
Better still: just "Yer Gonna Die!!!" with the trademark symbol (Russ registered this with the Patent Office, right?)
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 30, 2007 - 11:39pm PT
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I think the tech tips in Climbing Mag are very well illustrated (some of the info is bs but the illustrations are top notch).
It be cool to see a book that brought more info on in a push climbing and strategies for free or mostly free attempts.
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Oct 30, 2007 - 11:45pm PT
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"John Long's book on building anchors was how I learned to place gear and make gear anchors. The book was very helpful and after reading it I could just get out and climb without any doubt that I'm doing it safely. I still do 90% of things the same way as I learned from it."
Uhhh... anybody besides me ever meet anybody with this mentality and know, almost immediately, that they were destined to die a premature death?
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Pistol Pete
Trad climber
Pasadena, CA
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Nov 21, 2007 - 02:24pm PT
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Chris,
I read all the aid books and watched the 2 videos (Jello and Reid). I think you are right, the fundamentals aren't covered as well. Maybe it requires just getting out there and floundering a bit on a 3 pitch climb.
I'd be interested in your book. I agree that Ogden's book is awesome and if it had a DVD it would be even better.
Peace,
Pete
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Nov 21, 2007 - 03:06pm PT
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failure to include solo techniques will make it incomplete in my eyes.
don't use Jared Ogden's format.
The Mike Strassman book and John Middendorf books are ideal. You keep coming back to them time and time again.
Leave no reasonable technique out, but don't fail to point out the problems with the various techniques.
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SuperTopo on the Web
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More emphasis on climbing hammerless
Let us know!